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So, about the Wii U 50hz VC...
- Thread starter Neff
- Start date
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I'm really a little disgusted we've got to go through another Nintendo hardware generation with a gimped Virtual Console service. I ended up buying 2 games in total online via the Wii and with this move they've pretty much given me no incentive to spend any money on another service thats offering compromised games in 2013+.
Why would you purposely go out of your way to offer poorer renditions of games based on hardware specifications that date back to the mid 80's when you don't need to?
I can understand the language situation for certain parts of Europe but it can be worked around. I'd genuinely fire off an email if I thought they cared but they don't.
Why would you purposely go out of your way to offer poorer renditions of games based on hardware specifications that date back to the mid 80's when you don't need to?
I can understand the language situation for certain parts of Europe but it can be worked around. I'd genuinely fire off an email if I thought they cared but they don't.
plagiarize
Banned
and lets not forget, every single Wii U owner has a 60 hz display that can run the games in the correct resolution and framerate. every single one.
Hola GAF,
We've created a petition that we will be sending to Nintendo Europe / UK about the
Wii U Virtual Console in 50hz issue that's come up today.
If you could please share and sign the petition, would be most appreciated.
https://www.change.org/petitions/ni...l-console-games-in-europe-australia-in-60hz-2
Nintendo really did mess PAL gamers about with the original Wii VC service, so hopefully we can help turn this around before the Wii U version launches this Spring.
We'll send across the response to our contacts at Nintendo Europe. Never know - let's hope they can make a change with the buzz through this topic and the insane Miiverse coverage too.
We've created a petition that we will be sending to Nintendo Europe / UK about the
Wii U Virtual Console in 50hz issue that's come up today.
If you could please share and sign the petition, would be most appreciated.
https://www.change.org/petitions/ni...l-console-games-in-europe-australia-in-60hz-2
Nintendo really did mess PAL gamers about with the original Wii VC service, so hopefully we can help turn this around before the Wii U version launches this Spring.
We'll send across the response to our contacts at Nintendo Europe. Never know - let's hope they can make a change with the buzz through this topic and the insane Miiverse coverage too.
Ein Bear
Member
Cool, didn't know that. Workarounds aside, my point is that TVs unable to accept a 60hz signal haven't been made for at least a decade and nobody else is acting like they're beholden to them.
Email them anyway, you may never know.
AndyMoogle
Member
That's exactly what they said back when people complained about the 50Hz games on the Wii VC. I doubt they will budge on this one.
Good job. Maybe add an extra in topic title that there's a petition, too, maybe?
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Signed. Good luck.
AndyMoogle
Member
They could have fixed it on Wii too, but they never did.
Robin64
Member
There was a petition for this back in the Wii days too, which got over 3000 signatures.
http://www.**************.com/wii60pal/petition.html
Nintendo don't think it's broken. They want us to experience it as we did as kids, even if that experience was majorly gimped.
Edit: Wahey! Banned site, oddly.
http://www.**************.com/wii60pal/petition.html
Nintendo don't think it's broken. They want us to experience it as we did as kids, even if that experience was majorly gimped.
Edit: Wahey! Banned site, oddly.
Neff
Member
Unfortunately I don't have privileges to edit a thread title, but if anyone with mod powers is reading and sympathises with our plight, a mention of the petition would be very much appreciated.
Doesn't your story negate your call for outrage though? Wouldn't your old Euro friends boot up VC games and think they're playing "too fast," since it's not what they grew up with?
I agree the games should be 60Hz, or at least have the option, but that's probably NOE's frame of mind. Now with MiiVerse, they'll get instant feedback from people and hopefully they'll realize the demand for the official VC launch.
The only way to fix this issue is to offer both PAL and US ROMs. For some games this might be a problem with regards to copyright and licensing.
The Wii U needs to support 50Hz TVs in Europe and the NTSC version of games for old systems like NES and SNES can't be forced run at 50Hz without side effects.
The Wii U needs to support 50Hz TVs in Europe and the NTSC version of games for old systems like NES and SNES can't be forced run at 50Hz without side effects.
Palette Swap
Member
I'm all in favor of my PAL brethren fighting this righteous battle. I also think the same should be done for PS1 games on PSN, which are shameful. (The US account workaround is okayish as long as you don't use a Vita)
http://www.zophar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3930
Although yeah, there could be side effects this way too if the PAL conversion included some hard coded compensations.
The necessity to use NTSC ROMs seems debatable:
http://www.zophar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3930
Although yeah, there could be side effects this way too if the PAL conversion included some hard coded compensations.
KennyLinder
Member
Signed and tweeted.
Robin64
Member
Except it doesn't because it's not 1995. The Wii U doesn't support RF connections, which people also have on TVs from this era.
Palette Swap
Member
Good point, even older TVs support 60hz over scart. And by older, I mean any TV sold since the 90s.
KennyLinder
Member
I am tempted to buy a US Wii U but I shouldn't fucking have to.
checkeredknight
Member
I've not really been keeping up with all this Nintendo news just lately... So the VC has been announced for Wii U and it's locked at 50Hz in Europe? What a joke. Is there a way to play your previously bought VC games on Wii U outside of the "Wii Mode" as well?
Robin64
Member
Once a game is available on Wii U's Virtual Console, you can pay a "small fee" (99p for NES, £1.49 for SNES) to upgrade to it if you own the Wii one.
checkeredknight
Member
Thanks for the answer. It's nice that backwards compatibility with it is certainly possible, but the fee is surprising. Hopefully this will not happen when the XBLA makes its inevitable jump over to the new Xbox. I don't think it's fair to have bought the game only to have to pay again to play it on a new system (that isn't cheap as it is.)
With the Xbox having a 50/PAL60 option in the dash, I thought we'd finally seen the end to the horrors of shonky PAL versions. But then Mr 50Hz had one last fuck you up his sleeve. Two of the three launch games I had had PAL related issues.
Halo CE frame skipped when the Xbox was in PAL60 mode, so to play it smoothly, the console had to be set to run at PAL50. PGR ran slower when in PAL50 mode, apart from the in game clock which ran at normal speed. That meant that all event were much harder, as a lap on the game in PAL60 might take 30 seconds, the same lap in PAL50 would take 33 seconds. A bunch of Platinums were impossible to achieve due to this.
I didnt even know the Wii VC was 50hz in Europe. My wii is Japanese so just assumed they would be 60hz.
If the Pal games are 50hz with no option for 60hz then I'm out. I want the VC but I aint buying inferior games when I know those in other regions are getting the better experience.
If the Pal games are 50hz with no option for 60hz then I'm out. I want the VC but I aint buying inferior games when I know those in other regions are getting the better experience.
Ein Bear
Member
I've honestly never come across a TV that doesn't support 60hz. Even the cheap, crappy portable my parents bought me for my N64 games in 1996 worked just fine when the Dreamcast rolled round.
That's not a true reflection of the situation. PAL60 support wasn't in all TVs. Far from it. Back during the PS1 era, you had to carefully check TV descriptions to find a TV that supported it. Not all Sony Trinitron TVs supported 60HZ, let alone cheaper sets from other companies.
I know this as I bought a TV explicitly for playing 60Hz games back in '97-98 and it took me a while to find the right one.
Things are different now of course, as support for 60Hz is mandated by the European HD spec. Any HD Ready or HD Compatible TV has to accept 50 and 60HZ at all the SD and HD resolutions. But going back 6-7 year or more and 60HZ support was still something you had to check for.
I just checked out the Australian eShop in hopes of NTSC Balloon Fight goodness. But $0.30 later, I can now confirm that Australians are in the same boat as the rest of us: Slow 50Hz gameplay :/
It's likely all regions considered to be "PAL" by Nintendo are affected by this issue (which, in effect, means Virtual Console will remain useless at least for NES and SNES titles).
PAL regions only.
olimpia84
Member
Ok, no wonder I was playing the game yesterday and thought that the game speed was pretty much normal.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
What makes me hopeful is that Nintendo said that the full Virtual Console will be launched later, and this is just a preview of it.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah no. It's a chip producing a tone, it will be the same tone when run slower. I have no idea how anyone can not understand this.
Super Mario Bros 50Hz - same pitch music, plays slower
Sonic The Hegehog 50Hz - same pitch music, plays slower
Contra/Probotector 50Hz - music same pitch music, plays slower.
All Snes games play music at the correct speed because it has a separate sound chip.
Almost all 3rd party NES and SNES games has NO PAL optimisation, so could be run in 60Hz and be exactly like the NTSC version. Really, only Nintendo published games ever had optimisations done, many of their games had reduced borders and sleed adjustments. Sega, Sony and 3rd parties were the lazy asses who just dumped their NTSC file on a PAL cart and let it run like crap.
Ein Bear
Member
Is this true? I thought somebody debunked the 3DS thing earlier in the thread.
Edit: Ah, here we go:
So is it just the 3D Classics games that run full speed?
The NES games that I played have no black bars and Ninja Gaiden is the NTSC version, otherwise the tittle screen would say Shadow Warriors.
Palette Swap
Member
Again, I'd swear every TV sold in my part of Europe supported 60hz displays. Most didn't support NTSC which meant you had to be careful if you wanted to output import stuff (games or videos) over SVideo or composite. I remember being in the market for a TV in 94 or 95 and every TV supported 60 but very few supported NTSC and that usually came at a premium.
The NTSC color-coding part was mostly a non issue though because most devices could output RGB over SCART which totally bypassed any color coding format questions. I mostly remember people who thought they were outputting RGB over scart but were really outputting composite (usually because they'd been sold a composite cable) which resulted in a black and white picture.
Anyway, it seems really fair to assume that in 2013, every display in PAL land can take 60hz. Nintendo actually made that assumption years ago when they released Metroid Prime 2, which didn't support 50hz.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Were those 3DS versions the American roms, then? Or did they re-time the European roms somehow?
honeymustardn
Member
I don't think it's the ROMs that specify whether it's 50 or 60Hz, as with the SNES and Megadrive, it's a chip inside the console that dictates the refresh rate (you can mod the console by applying a different voltage to a certain pin and it will always display at 60Hz). Because of this, I'm pretty sure it's the emulator that comes with each game that will specify the refresh rate.
You'd be surprised. As recent as five years ago there were TVs being sold that didn't do 60hz. I know because I got one for Christmas and lovely as it was, I had the very difficult job of telling my folks that I needed a different one.
I still feel guilty about that.
I downloaded Balloon Fight yesterday on my PAL Wii U and must admit when playing it via the screen on the controller it doesn't look great. The colours are somewhat washed out and the picture is fuzzy and not very defined.
Whatever scaling they are using for the PAL rom looks quite poor. How would US Gaffers say the game looks on a USA Wii U controller?
Not only do we get cack 50hz games they look quite poor on the gamepad. Really not impressed.
Whatever scaling they are using for the PAL rom looks quite poor. How would US Gaffers say the game looks on a USA Wii U controller?
Not only do we get cack 50hz games they look quite poor on the gamepad. Really not impressed.
alf717
Member
The game on an US Gamepad and on screen kind of looks like it has a filter on it. I don't own Balloon Fight on Wii but I compaired it to Super Mario Brother and didn't notice the slight blur I was getting on the Wii U Balloon Fight.