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[Yoshichan]

I'm going to cheat, actual enemies in games are all in this thread, but what about Human players in multiplayer?

Mother of God... I don't think I've ever seen someone do TGFs that fast in a tournament setting...

 

[TheShampion]

I love how this thread is turning into "DARK SOULS WAS EASIER THAN PUTT PUTT GOES TO THE MOON! GAMERS TODAY ARE TOTAL PUSSIES" Dark Souls is clearly designed to be harsh and challenging, and just because it is better balanced than the birds over the pits in Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't mean it is a cake walk. I feel like the problem a lot of old school gamers have to face is games are easier now because games made 20 years ago only had to appeal to the niche market that was the people who played video games. Also people were so used to playing arcade games 30 years ago that were hard just to take your quarters, and people just thought that is what video games are. Hard as shit so they can take your money. Then they were hard as shit to justify their purchase. Now they have other incentives so not every game has you kill so much that you have to memorize a code to get 30 lives just to last more than 10 minutes on a game.

Anyway, hardest boss in my mind is the last boss in KOFXI (don't remember his name) just because it you have to ignore everything you do in order to beat a normal opponent and have to figure out how the hell to hit him while not getting hit. It has a difficulty spike that I felt wasn't really necessary and they should've at least put the version that the player can play instead of a super powered version that is super inbalanced (Blaz Blu did a good jog of this).

 

[rCIZZLE]

This all day long. without a guide the soul games get ballbustingly hard.

I used a guide for DeS the first time through for most of it, and went into Dark souls completely blind (save for posting in the official GAF thread here and there).

It's far more satisfying, but you'll run into shit that will one shot you every five minutes. (hey, Tomb of Giants sure is dark....#@$@!) and god help you if you get cursed and can't break it.

Not to many games have situations that trigger this reaction.

 

[Mlatador]

I'd say Emerald Weapon from FF7. My party was 76 and I barely beat him (It took really long, many many tries, and is one of the most memorable moments in my Videogaming history).

 

[Tain]

I consider a game hard when it's challenging to even see the ending. Did you guys just breeze through both Souls games without ever getting stuck or checking a guide? Because that's how it sounds.

Why was Demon's Souls such a horrible choice though that I get treated like someone who has never touched a controller?

There's not really a "you guys" going on here. I strongly disagree that the Souls games are the hardest of the generation, let alone the initial claim you made that they were some of the hardest games ever. That doesn't mean I think that they're stupidly easy cakewalks.

 

[Yoshichan]

I'd say Emerald Weapon from FF7. My party was 76 and I barely beat him (It took really long, many many tries, and is one of the most memorable moments in my Videogaming history).

My memorable moment with Emerald Weapon was when I beat him the first time without underwater materia... I beat him when the counter was at exactly 00:00 so when I got to the victory screen, the game crashed on me :lol So stupidly hilarious (though I did get pissed off back then, which is completely understandable).

 

[Risette]

I feel like the problem a lot of old school gamers have to face is games are easier now because games made 20 years ago only had to appeal to the niche market that was the people who played video games. Also people were so used to playing arcade games 30 years ago that were hard just to take your quarters, and people just thought that is what video games are. Hard as shit so they can take your money.

Oh man.

 

[Azar]

I think the hardest fights I've ever completed in games were the final bosses of Star Ocean: The Second Story. I had to grind 10 or 15 levels to beat Vesper & Decus and scraped through the fight by the barest of margins, then had to grind a bit more to beat Indaleico to end it. His battle felt less difficult in comparison, but they were still brutally difficult by RPG standards.

Granted, there were far harder challenges even within that game. I never fought him with the limiter off, which is just goddamn ridiculous. But for the amount of time I'd put into the game and whatever levels/equipment I'd obtained, those fights were borderline impossible.

 

[dimb]

Actually, statistically (and thus factually), pre-patch C'thun is the hardest boss of all time since no one managed to beat it.

It wasn't until three months later that Blizzard decided to patch it, because no one could ever beat it. So C'thun is the correct answer.

They patched it because it was mathematically impossible to beat him. It was an artificial wall put in place by Blizzard to keep raiders busy.

 

[Tain]

I love how this thread is turning into "DARK SOULS WAS EASIER THAN PUTT PUTT GOES TO THE MOON! GAMERS TODAY ARE TOTAL PUSSIES" Dark Souls is clearly designed to be harsh and challenging, and just because it is better balanced than the birds over the pits in Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't mean it is a cake walk. I feel like the problem a lot of old school gamers have to face is games are easier now because games made 20 years ago only had to appeal to the niche market that was the people who played video games. Also people were so used to playing arcade games 30 years ago that were hard just to take your quarters, and people just thought that is what video games are. Hard as shit so they can take your money. Then they were hard as shit to justify their purchase. Now they have other incentives so not every game has you kill so much that you have to memorize a code to get 30 lives just to last more than 10 minutes on a game.

What on earth do your misconceptions about arcade games and a few of the posters in this thread have anything to do with how hard or easy a game is? This reads like turbosensitivity.

 

[BeEatNU]

Dark Demon from Demon's Crest has to be up there.

SO damn true!!

I came in to post this but so many people havent even played Demons Crest

 

[rCIZZLE]

There's not really a "you guys" going on here. I strongly disagree that the Souls games are the hardest of the generation, let alone the initial claim you made that they were some of the hardest games ever. That doesn't mean I think that they're stupidly easy cakewalks.

I don't think I said they were some of the hardest games ever. In my experience that was one of the hardest boss fights, though, in the amount of times I died before finally getting it.

 

[Manmademan]

Playing this game as a kid...I had no answer. Had to ask random kids at school and one finally told me about running away and using "yell" to boost speed. Took like 15-20 minutes of using "yell" to boost the speed high enough to have like 8 turns in a row. Never found another way to beat him.

you know, I never had a problem with this guy. The fight with Gafgarion earlier on in the game gave me the fits though.

This may be because I always considered squire to be a useless class, and never bothered using "yell", etc.

 

[iconoclast]

There's not really a "you guys" going on here. I strongly disagree that the Souls games are the hardest of the generation, let alone the initial claim you made that they were some of the hardest games ever. That doesn't mean I think that they're stupidly easy cakewalks.

Pretty much this. The Souls games aren't easy, but they are most definitely not the hardest games this gen. Not even close.

(although Demon's is fairly easy if you're a magic user and know all of the cheese tactics )

 

[cj_iwakura]

I consider a game hard when it's challenging to even see the ending. Did you guys just breeze through both Souls games without ever getting stuck or checking a guide? Because that's how it sounds.

No one's saying they're easy games, but they're by no stretch the hardest thing ever.

 

[Yoshichan]

They patched it because it was mathematically impossible to beat him. It was an artificial wall put in place by Blizzard to keep raiders busy.

Absolutely! However glitchy bosses are part of this discussion, therefore C'thun is the hardest boss of all time

 

[rCIZZLE]

Pretty much this. The Souls games aren't easy, but they are most definitely not the hardest games this gen. Not even close.

(although Demon's is fairly easy if you're a magic user and know all of the cheese tactics )

I will take this as a challenge. Pick the one most difficult game (preferably not a 100 hour campaign) and I'll go beat it without a guide. No "super god mode" difficulties that I have to beat the game several times to unlock.. just the hardest difficulty offered out of box.

No one's saying they're easy games, but they're by no stretch the hardest thing ever.

Never said they were. -_-

 

[Risette]

I will take this as a challenge. Pick the one most difficult game (preferably not a 100 hour campaign) and I'll go beat it without a guide. No "super god mode" difficulties that I have to beat the game several times to unlock.. just the hardest difficulty offered out of box.

Espgaluda II or Pink Sweets

Only ~35 minutes long each! Good luck!

Spoiler

No continues allowed.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Pre-patched Cthun is definitely up with the Sleeper. The raid had to play perfectly with zero mistakes and even then a run of bad luck, you would still wipe. I think eventually a guild would have pulled it off, but it would have taken a long time.

C'Thun's ability to spawn tentacles midair, inside his stomach, and under the same player twice meant that even with perfect play, you had to dodge a lot of unfavorable dice rolls to keep key interrupters and DPS alive through all of phase 2, shaving your odds of success towards near-impossibility. No guild would have had that much luck in a single week.

 

[Tain]

I don't think I said they were some of the hardest games ever. In my experience that was one of the hardest boss fights, though, in the amount of times I died before finally getting it.

You're right, you didn't say exactly that. Just that Demon's was one of the hardest you had played. While I wouldn't have worded it like Jive Turkey did (as I said, the game isn't a cakewalk), I still have to assume that you haven't played all that many difficult games, this gen or otherwise.

I will take this as a challenge. Pick the one most difficult game (preferably not a 100 hour campaign) and I'll go beat it without a guide. No "super god mode" difficulties that I have to beat the game several times to unlock.. just the hardest difficulty offered out of box.

http://www.play-asia.com/Mushihimes...m_Collection/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-3yu5.html

Boot that up (once you find a copy), pick the default Score Attack from the main menu, pick Ultra mode.

Only ~35 minutes long each! Good luck! No continues allowed.

hell, just go with Mushi, that defaults to continue-free Score Attack.

 

[Cwarrior]

the only boss to ever make me rage.

 

[Manmademan]

Absolutely! However glitchy bosses are part of this discussion, therefore C'thun is the hardest boss of all time

eh? wasn't there a discussion earlier in the thread about a FFXI boss that was in the exact same situation?

Those aren't glitches, they're designed to be unbeatable brick walls. I don't know if it's really a "hard" boss if it's intentionally programmed to not allow you to defeat it. If that's the case there are dozens of Jrpg bosses that can't be beaten and are intentionally designed to kill you the first time.

 

[Darryl]

Let me introduce you to Absolute Virtue from FFXI. He originally had very vague spawn conditions. Not as bad as "one shot and that's it" but people didn't know how to do it so it was very rare to get him to spawn. But the developers eventually released more and more hints. Finally people could spawn it regularly, and still nobody ever got him below about 80% health. People would fight him for hours and hours only to have him use an ability that restored 100% of his health.

Fast forward about a year. By this time he had been fought plenty of times. One team beat him by exploiting a glitch where you could hide behind a wall where he couldn't damage you, but that was patched. Finally the development team released a video of them beating him, which supposedly "clearly demonstrated" a hint that players could use to expose his weakness. But either they lied or the hint was less than obvious because at least another year went by with people not being able to beat him. One team fought him for literally 24 hours and just made no progress at all.

This was about 3-4 years ago. I don't even know what the state of him is now, I wouldn't be surprised if they had to patch him to be beatable, but for years he was essentially unbeatable.

This is the only real answer to this question. A group of ~40 people on my server spent over 24 hours straight (think it was closer to 40 hours) fighting him, to get him down about to about 80% and wipe.

 

[iconoclast]

I will take this as a challenge. Pick the one most difficult game (preferably not a 100 hour campaign) and I'll go beat it without a guide. No "super god mode" difficulties that I have to beat the game several times to unlock.. just the hardest difficulty offered out of box.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushihime-sama_Futari

Ultra mode is readily available as soon as you start the game, so no need to worry about unlocking it. Feel free to be the first non-Japanese person to beat it!

 

[Yoshichan]

If that's the case there are dozens of Jrpg bosses that can't be beaten and are intentionally designed to kill you the first time.

I love bosses that you can't kill, name'em!

 

[Risette]

http://www.play-asia.com/Mushihimes...m_Collection/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-3yu5.html

Boot that up (once you find a copy)

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3916946

 

[cj_iwakura]

I love bosses that you can't kill, name'em!

I find ones that you're supposed to kill and utterly decimate you more interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZtGPaSuR8Y

(Not the tutorial fight that can easily kill you, but same idea.)

 

[WiiRevolution1]

Final Boss in Mario and Luigi 2 took perfect timing for a solid 30 minutes.

Yea deffinitly the hardest boss I've played. (I really don't play any real hard games, or games in hard mode.) it took me about a hour just to get to the 2nd form then bam I died.

Went and grinded for about a week and went to the boss and about 40 minutes to get where I was then bam. Third form comes and kills me.

Then I forgot about it for monhs. Went back around 6 months later, grinded alot, and after q couple tries I beat the 3rd form.

Then bam fourth form. But there was a save point and the 4th boss was not really hard lol.

 

[LiK]

Any SNK fighting game boss.

 

[Manmademan]

I love bosses that you can't kill, name'em!

oh god, there's a ton. IIRC Chrono trigger had you fight Lavos a couple times before the actual end of the game. Literally Impossible to actually do unless you were on NG+.

That's probably the best example, but it happened so often with old RPGs it's practically a cliche.

edit: Tv tropes has an exhaustive list.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HopelessBossFight

 

[rCIZZLE]

Espgaluda II or Pink Sweets

Only ~35 minutes long each! Good luck!

Spoiler

No continues allowed.

Does the XBLA one count? Also is no continues part of the game or is that an extra requirement for me lol.

 

[Yoshichan]

oh god, there's a ton. IIRC Chrono trigger had you fight Lavos a couple times before the actual end of the game. Literally Impossible to actually do unless you were on NG+.

That's probably the best example, but it happened so often with old RPGs it's practically a cliche.

But Lavos is such a turd... :/ I want some odd, super demonic beast from a complete psychotic, random, never-heard-of-JRPG!

 

[Risette]

Does the XBLA one count? Also is no continues part of the game or is that an extra requirement for me lol.

Not on XBLA.

No continues is part of the game(s)

 

[Ultratech]

I've heard Evaccaneer DOOM on Extra/Doom Mode is pretty rough shit. I know in DOOM Mode, you have to fight it 5 times in a row, with it harder each time. Extra Mode is MUCH harder since DOOM's even more relentless with its attacks.

Final boss in Metroid Prime.

Not even. It's mostly about following a pattern with its attacks. Not that hard.

Original Weltall in Xenogears. You're not SUPPOSED to be able to beat it, but with the right planning from the beginning of the game, you have a chance, if you're lucky.

Nah, I beat him with like literally no trouble. I was actually surprised, since I heard the fight was supposed to be super-hard. Ended up with him missing or doing little damage with most of his attacks. I don't even think I had all the Magnetic Coats (though I was using what I had since Evade is awesome).

Actually, statistically (and thus factually), pre-patch C'thun is the hardest boss of all time since no one managed to beat it.

It wasn't until three months later that Blizzard decided to patch it, because no one could ever beat it. So C'thun is the correct answer.

I remember reading about this. Some very crazy shit. I remember Four Horsemen also being pretty rough before people figured out how to beat it.

 

[kittens]

Wizpig was a chump. I beat him in seventh grade with only mild difficulty.

 

[Atolm]

I believe Absolute Virtue can be defeated now with ease, since they increased the level cap from 75 to 99, and people finally figured a strategy iirc.

 

[jbueno]

the only boss to ever make me rage.

I was stuck with that fucker for weeks! Damn asshole kept pushing me away from the track in the second or third laps. I don´t know if it´s the hardest ever, but for me definitely the most frustrating.

 

[TheShampion]

What on earth do your misconceptions about arcade games and a few of the posters in this thread have anything to do with how hard or easy a game is? This reads like turbosensitivity.

Haha, turbo sensitivity? Thats a new one.

Alright, I'll bite, what about my conceptions of arcade games you find a misconception? Certainly fighting games are about competition (but even then, the rules were made complex in order to foster skill based play), but are not single player games pretty much driven by challenge? Do you not think that this encouraged harder and harder games?

 

[luka]

Haha, turbo sensitivity? Thats a new one.

Alright, I'll bite, what about my conceptions of arcade games you find a misconception? Certainly fighting games are about competition, but are not single player games pretty much driven by challenge? Do you not think that this encouraged harder and harder games?

Primarily single player arcade games are driven by indirect competition. Dats why we gots leaderboards. You're not necessarily playing to beat the game, you're playing to beat everyone else's scores.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Not on XBLA.

No continues is part of the game(s)

Alright I'll keep an eye out for this game when it (hopefully) price drops on amazon.

 

[Manmademan]

But Lavos is such a turd... :/ I want some odd, super demonic beast from a complete psychotic, random, never-heard-of-JRPG!

That's the thing. it happens constantly. It isn't always a super demonic beast, just a boss designed to be unbeatable at a certain point of the game.

again: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HopelessBossFight

Anubis in ZOE2, Dark Knights in FFII, Golbez in FFIV, Gades in Lufia, Id in Xenogears...

"hard" is one category, "cheap" is another, but "designed to not let you pass" is something entirely different.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I remember reading about this. Some very crazy shit. I remember Four Horsemen also being pretty rough before people figured out how to beat it.

Eight Tier 3 geared tanks was tough for any guild, let alone those who raided absurd hours. Blizzard loved it when people stacked raid comps in the 40man days through Sunwell.

 

[El Sloth]

Omega Tom Hanks

But I guess Mugen is cheating.

 

[Jive Turkey]

You're right, you didn't say exactly that. Just that Demon's was one of the hardest you had played. While I wouldn't have worded it like Jive Turkey did (as I said, the game isn't a cakewalk), I still have to assume that you haven't played all that many difficult games, this gen or otherwise.

I'm not even calling Demon's Souls a cakewalk but its difficulty is massively over stated. I beat many of the levels and their bosses in my first try without a guide. Heck the boss that gave me the most trouble was the Dragon God and that was just because his level was so trial-and-error. Take Demon's Souls slow and steady and it isn't nearly as hard and people suggest.

 

[Branduil]

Of the games I have played, its probably Killalon from Lost Odyssey: Seeker of the Deep.

To beat him:

(1) be level 99 and max out your characters through insane grinding.

(2) delve to the bottom of the deepest dungeon in the game, twenty-six floors of the toughest monsters in the game, no save points.

(3) walk into his chamber and discover a giant fuckoff robot in a fantasy game piloted by the LO equivalent of a Goomba.

(4) begin the fight. Every round, he auto-heals more damage than your team can actually dish out with the most powerful weapons in the game. By the second round he casts immunity to magic, and in the third round he summons an asteroid that kills everyone.

(5) sigh.

How to win:

The only remotely feasible way of defeating him is by going in with 1HP, and using a bizarre reverse spell that dishes out a HP damage value that is (YOUR MAXIMUM POSSIBLE HP) minus (YOUR CURRENT LEVEL OF HP).

If you can do this for the entire first round, and through pure luck get a MISS from his attacks with at least three party members, then he will summon the superasteroid that causes instant death. If you are VERY lucky, this may MISS one of your team who can then resurrect everyone with low health and if you can hold out another round and his magical immunity wears off, you can use the HP damage spell again to defeat him.

Even maxxed out, at a point where you can kill the real final boss in a single round, this strategy only has something like a one-in-sixty-four chance of ever succeeding as it depends on the boss's manouvers missing you successively. The strategy was only discovered months after the game came out, I believe.

I've maxxed Lost Odyssey and all its DLC, but for the life of me I couldn't defeat this monstrous boss.

What is the point of such a thing?

 

[Risette]

Alright I'll keep an eye out for this game when it (hopefully) price drops on amazon.

The price for Galuda2 on Amazon is pretty fair; it would probably cost the same on HMV JP considering the exchange rate + shipping. You could also get Mushihimesama Futari instead.

I paid $85ish for my copy last year at NCSX.

 

[Last Hearth]

I could not beat him when I was a kid and I still cannot beat him at age 30.

*cries*

Really? I never had a problem beating him, he telegraphs everything he's about to do with his eye blinks.

 

[TheShampion]

Primarily single player arcade games are driven by indirect competition. Dats why we gots leaderboards. You're not necessarily playing to beat the game, you're playing to beat everyone else's scores.

Yes, but getting score is determined by challenge. No one would of cared about Space Invaders if it was just about score. It was the challenge to get that score. Also, doesn't that pretty much leave out games like Strider, Ghouls and Ghosts, and beat 'em ups? What about arcade games that were unplugged every day so the scores reset? Are those games not fun anymore?

 

[Wallach]

Alright I'll keep an eye out for this game when it (hopefully) price drops on amazon.

In the meantime check out Dungeons of Dredmor on Steam. It's only five bucks.

 

[Yoshichan]

Anubis in ZOE2, Dark Knights in FFII, Golbez in FFIV, Gades in Lufia, Id in Xenogears...

Love it, but all the mentioned bosses above makes it obvious that you're not supposed to beat them. In the story too. There's a difference between that and C'thun, where Blizzard never said a word, it was just another patch day and people were ready to raid for gear and BOOM, unbeatable boss. That's the difference

edit: Also I thought every battle against Id was beatable?

edit 2: That might've been Grafh.