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Sonic Forces - Casino Forest gameplay
- Thread starter Not75Drops
- Start date
LinkSlayer64
Member
This is an issue I have. The darkness and general flatness of the level really betrays the bright color popping effects that all the casino items provide. I see a completely different aesthetic, a much better one, when I see the bright flashes of bouncing off those bumpers.
The scale just seems really off, and the visual noise that's going on in really jarring and makes just looking at things hard. I love the level concept, but it's just empty and barren.
I'm hoping they have the HUD hidden because they're redesigning it - what we've seen so far is just abnormally large and taking up way too much screen real estate. (also inspector gadget theme Kappa)
Edit: There are zero enemies in this. Also what's going on here?
even in genesis and mania sonic can stand on a titled ledge and hang their, I wouldn't be too worried until we have sufficient evidence of fucked up physics a-la Sonic 4
Lastly on a good note, I actually enjoyed the music.
Ristifer
Member
No, I know what you meant. I'm saying I really enjoy Titanic Monarch. I consider Mania's stages to be part of the classic series.
Not taking your bait I'm afraid.
That's weird. You're wrong, I guess. I don't really know how someone could possibly explain how Sonic Adventure and Sonic 06 have less in common than Gens and Forces in a way that would satisfy you when the reasoning is exceedingly obvious.
And sure ok. It'd be hypocritical if I was criticizing a poster for having a positive opinion of the game- where all of my criticism fell upon the game itself, every time, that other dude's post was criticizing me as a person. That's not really the same. How exactly do my posting habits in Sonic Forces threads make me hypocritical in telling someone who finds me "limited" and attention-seeking to press the ignore button?
"Sonic Lost World sucked! Make another game like Generations!"
"But we didn't make Generations..."
"Make a game that LOOKS like Generations kinda but still plays like Lost World, Sonic Boom, and the worst parts of Colors!"
If this isn't the "Generations team" then I'm curious where those guys went tbh. I'm interested in seeing the credits for this game.
The Xtortionist
Member
The Forces team didn't make Generations? Forces (Project Sonic 2017) was announced as being from the team behind Generations.
calavera_jo
Neo Member
Looks alright
The guy listed as Lead Game Designer in Generations wasn't Lead Game Designer on Lost World. I think that's the key issue. The level design has major hallmarks from Lost World's 2D levels.
LinkSlayer64
Member
It took me a bit of time, but Titanic Monarch grew on me. It's certainly not my favorite, but once you are aware of its mechanics as a whole it is a real joy to jump through.
I think my most disliked is probably Hydrocity, it just feels really different from Sonic 3, the remix of the first level takes out a lot of what I enjoyed, and even Act 2 just feels odd for some reason. Boss battles were great though.
This plays like Lost World? Doesn't look like it does to me. I actually enjoyed Lost World though so no one takes my opinion seriously.
SoulUnison
Banned
Oh man, what is happening?
This level looks like it was quickly built out of stock assets using some kind of Stage Creator mode. Very cut-and-dry architecture and the layout is unimaginative as can be.
And they STILL haven't figured out Classic Sonic's physics? What the shit?
Look at the way he sticks to the wall and then suddenly flings forward at full speed @ 0:26.
And the music is...I mean, it's ok, but it sounds like a rough draft pass before they finished adding instruments and flourishes.
This level looks like it was quickly built out of stock assets using some kind of Stage Creator mode. Very cut-and-dry architecture and the layout is unimaginative as can be.
And they STILL haven't figured out Classic Sonic's physics? What the shit?
Look at the way he sticks to the wall and then suddenly flings forward at full speed @ 0:26.
And the music is...I mean, it's ok, but it sounds like a rough draft pass before they finished adding instruments and flourishes.
Go pick any 2D level from Lost World and look at all of the down hill boostpads and boostpads right before loops.
i like the concept that its a ruin that eggman is in the process of converting to a new casino, but instead of doing anything with that concept (like having the stage start out as a forest and the casino elements become more dominant over the course of the level) it just feels like they slapped some CNZ objects onto a different "tileset" and called it day
Literally what Planet Wisp does so yeah its impressive how they screwed that up so badly.
LinkSlayer64
Member
Wasn't that also in Generations? I wouldn't consider the boost pad stuff to be enough to make that comparison there's a lot more to "playing like" than the speed physics. Just call it what it is, the physics of Sonic's speed and momentum do not allow him to go through loops without a boost, which once again, I'm pretty sure was in Generations.
Planet Wisp really doesn't look like it's being converted to a casino though, nor does it look like some ancient ruins in a forest... but okay, it's literally what Planet Wisp is, after all.
Surprise, though, I dig it. Pretty curious to see what it'll look like with Modern Sonic in this specific case, too.
LinkSlayer64
Member
No, it is not literally becoming a casino, but it is literally a normal forest like place that slowly becomes more mechanized as you play through the level, that was their point.
There's some more gameplay here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewEWCUjq5CE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewEWCUjq5CE
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Agreed. Classic City Escape with the constant truck appearances was inventive and fantastic.
The level-design here just looks blah. Are these supposed to be side-missions? Some of the architecture seems to suggest that.
Which is why I made sure to highlight the word 'literally', it gets thrown around very carelessly and it doesn't help more often than not.
And honestly, Planet Wisp has a great theme, but it's by far my least liked level in Sonic Generations. Then again, the aesthetic isn't responsible for that, but the mechanized part of it is mostly dull, where it really shines is the nature side of it. What really kills that level is Spikes and Rocket, terrible gimmicks.
RecRoulette
Member
Casino Forest sounds like an awesome concept, and I was bummed that the video didn't do that name justice lol
LinkSlayer64
Member
Great, he used literally wrong, okay, correct him on that, but you understood his point, and you're still detracting from it - they've accomplished a similar concept in the past fairly well, and in this one they pretty much just screw it up.
The enjoyment of the level design isn't the factor, it's the theme and how they accomplished a good transition.
So when you lose rings... they don't pop out of sonic? So you can't recover rings? Is this just for a sided mission of collecting the most rings or something?
Honestly I really want to like that sassy Dynamite Headdy sounding music. But the instrumentation is really lacking.
I mean, just mute the sound and play this instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xygbdeir7A8
much better track and still fitting.
What's happening Ohtani?
th4tguy
Member
The game is being made on it's own custom engine. I would bet a large amount of money that this is the center reason for any issues with the game.
The Xtortionist
Member
Isn't it just the Hedgehog Engine with some added features? The engine has been around forever.
It's an evolution of the same engine created for Sonic Unleashed, I don't think that should be the problem. Already been used for multiple Sonic games.
IMO, I think they wanted to make a totally different game, different than the Generations style, but after Lost World tanked and wasn't well received, they had to scrap it and make "Generations 2" quickly as a safe route.
The Xtortionist
Member
I think it's a main story mission. Sonic probably doesn't get a chance to pick any rings back up in an effort to make the user created characters more unique. I think one of the species' special ability was being able to recover rings.
I think it would also explain why rings are so plentiful; since you can't pick them back up, they compensate by putting them all over the place.
I don't like it :/ it sounds very "Senoue-ish".... I dunno, when I hear it I just can't help but think it sounds like some anime opening (not only for the rock but also for the melody style).
AwakenedCloud
Member
I like the aesthetics... But where are the obstacles?!
th4tguy
Member
The game just looks slow to me. Bad animations and Sonic himself looks like he is floating ontop of the ground instead of connecting with it. I see hitching and what could be bad frame pacing or drops in fps entirely. Just because some tech carried over from the previous engine doesn't mean things went smoothly with it.
Bucket-o-roadkill
Member
I noticed him slowing down going down hill.
Oh dear oh dear, this is going to be this gens Sonic 06 isn't it. All good news for Mania at the end of the day though, so some postivity for Sonic will come from it.
Man, either Ohtani really phoned it in this particular time for some reason or something is up there lol. He already did plenty of great stuff for Classic Sonic in Gens but even his work on Lost World was fantastic. Genuinely at a loss.
God I hope so. 06 wasn't even a sales failure (iirc it sold pretty good at over a million as an early PS3/360 exclusive) but its critical bombing led to a huge shakeup at Sonic Team and a radically different (and better) follow-up game in Unleashed. We'll be lucky if this is another 06 and not just another whatever Sonic game.
God I hope so. 06 wasn't even a sales failure (iirc it sold pretty good at over a million as an early PS3/360 exclusive) but its critical bombing led to a huge shakeup at Sonic Team and a radically different (and better) follow-up game in Unleashed. We'll be lucky if this is another 06 and not just another whatever Sonic game.
The Xtortionist
Member
I don't doubt the engine has been improved since the last game, but it doesn't seem like it was rebuilt from scratch or anything. At least not to the extent that its development would sabotage a game on a 3-4 year cycle. Visually and technically Forces looks pretty similar to Generations.
Yeah it's not like SEGA has mismanaged Classic Sonic music from the start or anything. Classic Speed Highway, Crisis City, Rooftop Run, and Planet Wisp all had great themes in Generations. Forces seems to be a shift in a worse direction.
LinkSlayer64
Member
It is Hedgehog V2, but it is weird, considering it was fully utilized in Sonic Unleashed, and then... oddly scaled back with features in Generations. Modders have re-implemented original features into the PC version with files they had found.
The Hedgehog engine specifically was supposed to make lighting and stuff easier, so that level development didn't take weeks on end.
I'm pretty sure it isn't directly related to animations and stuff like that, but I'm not the dev.
The Hedgehog engine specifically was supposed to make lighting and stuff easier, so that level development didn't take weeks on end.
I'm pretty sure it isn't directly related to animations and stuff like that, but I'm not the dev.
The Xtortionist
Member
I don't have any insider knowledge so this is all just speculation but maybe the fact that it's a 10 year old engine now and the original director of both that engine and the game built to showcase it quit years ago has something to do with it?
I mean it's not impossible that enough of the key people responsible for the Hedgehog Engine in 2008 aren't there anymore and 2017 Sonic Team isn't as good with it I guess.
I don't agree Planet Wisp does it well though, that's kinda *my* point. It's two very distinct parts of the level, the nature one is great, the 'industrial' part is... orange walls everywhere. It doesn't really look good nor does it blend well with nature.
This one, while not perfect, actually seems to integrate both well enough for me.
But Hashimoto left after Unleashed yet they keep using the engine for next games (making it run better also). They also let an external developer port it to PC, and Generations PC runs in almost toasters at 60 fps.
I mean, they may have problems updating the engine to 2.0 but I don't understand how considering this 2.0 version looks like 1.0 in a PC.
Bad animations may be a lot of things, and I dunno if the H.Engine handles physics, I thinks it's mainly a graphics engine?
If it's 60 ps it's not framepacing, but maybe the framerate is not stable, but that's probably a beta thing.
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
Ugh.
When we got the very first teaser, I was optimistic. Generations 2, how could they mess that up?
Then we got the worst Green Hill I've ever seen. Then we got Infinite. Then we got Original the Character.
Every last detail we've gotten (including this one) has made me less and less enthusiastic about this. I'm quite certain I'm not buying this even though I bought Mania on launch day.
I'm not gonna call this garbage; I've played garbage. This seems to fall into the Sonic Boom trap of "bad, but not in a funny way". At least 06 is hilariously buggy and broken so you can have some simulacrum of fun destroying it from within. At least the Storybook games tried something unique (though forced motion controls ruined them). Heck, even Shadow is admirable for the critical levels of cheesiness it entails.
Forces had potential. Even the Custom Hero could've been interesting if they did it like Emerl in Battle: one canon design, customizable abilities, maybe color customization and accessories. Infinite, I feel, is irredeemable as a villain concept; he's far too edgy and over the top. He's not even tongue in cheek, he's literally just "better than Sonic" and edgy about it. Personally, I would have brought in SaTAM Robotnik if a more sinister villain was needed. You could've even justified it by saying he was from Custom Hero's universe.
Now, relating to this particular stage: it's an interesting combination of level themes that, again, had potential. However, it's held back by the "level editor" aesthetic of the Casino elements being haphazardly slapped on a Forest background. No attempt appears to have been made to blend the themes in an elegant manner. Not to mention the absolutely abysmal lighting. Additionally, the "Classic" physics prove rather iffy in this footage, as the Boostpad gif shows. And the music just reminds me of Inspector Gadget. Feels like I'm listening to Siivagunner.
When we got the very first teaser, I was optimistic. Generations 2, how could they mess that up?
Then we got the worst Green Hill I've ever seen. Then we got Infinite. Then we got Original the Character.
Every last detail we've gotten (including this one) has made me less and less enthusiastic about this. I'm quite certain I'm not buying this even though I bought Mania on launch day.
I'm not gonna call this garbage; I've played garbage. This seems to fall into the Sonic Boom trap of "bad, but not in a funny way". At least 06 is hilariously buggy and broken so you can have some simulacrum of fun destroying it from within. At least the Storybook games tried something unique (though forced motion controls ruined them). Heck, even Shadow is admirable for the critical levels of cheesiness it entails.
Forces had potential. Even the Custom Hero could've been interesting if they did it like Emerl in Battle: one canon design, customizable abilities, maybe color customization and accessories. Infinite, I feel, is irredeemable as a villain concept; he's far too edgy and over the top. He's not even tongue in cheek, he's literally just "better than Sonic" and edgy about it. Personally, I would have brought in SaTAM Robotnik if a more sinister villain was needed. You could've even justified it by saying he was from Custom Hero's universe.
Now, relating to this particular stage: it's an interesting combination of level themes that, again, had potential. However, it's held back by the "level editor" aesthetic of the Casino elements being haphazardly slapped on a Forest background. No attempt appears to have been made to blend the themes in an elegant manner. Not to mention the absolutely abysmal lighting. Additionally, the "Classic" physics prove rather iffy in this footage, as the Boostpad gif shows. And the music just reminds me of Inspector Gadget. Feels like I'm listening to Siivagunner.
