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[Sami+]

You know, you can just say you don't like Forces without coming up with nonsensical justifications for it. Sonic 06 is literally just a worse version of Sonic Adventure. Same gameplay, same hub worlds, same ill-advised attempt to place a cartoon hedgehog in a world of realistic humans and ancient evil beings.

Sonic 06 has a different set of controls, a different set of power-ups (as well as a different method of obtaining them), a completely different physics engine, a different art style, different game mechanics, a completely different musical direction, and larger and more complex level design.

You're either deliberately being obtuse or you haven't actually played either game if you're really trying to assert that their similarities are even remotely comparable to those of Generations and Forces.

But if my posts really bother you so much you can just put me on your ignore list and go back to praising the game.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Need a boostpad just before the lip because you know, the player might not be going fast enough.

There's a boostpad in the small half pipe before that area too, because again th player obviously can't figure out what spindashing would do in that situation even though they make it a one button input and auto rev.

Isn't Forces's spindashed the same nerfed garbage from Generations?

 

[FleetingFlowAir]

Even if the classic physics were borked Generations had much more interesting levels. Seeing the Death Egg setpiece gorgeously re-enacted in Sky Sanctuary, avoiding the truck in a different perspective in City Escape, chasing the signpost in Crisis City, taking down the airship in Rooftop Run, etc.

What’s the throughline with Casino Forest? What’s the memorable setpiece? Why does the ending come out of nowhere with no buildup? Where’s the scenario design? Even the more fundamentals-focused levels in Generations like Speed Highway were well rounded in length.

Those moments in Generations were exactly what I was thinking. Even when Classic Sonic was no longer in the Classic Era to have level design reminiscent/1:1 to the originals, his level from then on offered unique moments that made him separate from Modern Sonic. The truck in City Escape was the first thing that came to mind as it was frantic having the truck chase you not just behind, but in the background too, meaning you had to act fast.

Here...I just see a casino in a forest setting, and that’s about it. No special event occurs while Classic Sonic is progressing.

 

[MrBadger]

Remember that time one of the bubbles was red? what a twist!

At least the red Bubbles could hurt you. All of the enemies in this game just seem to stand around waiting to be killed by your original character, as Knuckles chimes in to say they couldn't have done it without you.

Even if the classic physics were borked Generations had much more interesting levels. Seeing the Death Egg setpiece gorgeously re-enacted in Sky Sanctuary, avoiding the truck in a different perspective in City Escape, chasing the signpost in Crisis City, taking down the airship in Rooftop Run, etc.

What's the throughline with Casino Forest? What's the memorable setpiece? Why does the ending come out of nowhere with no buildup? Where's the scenario design? Even the more fundamentals-focused levels in Generations like Speed Highway were well rounded in length.

I seriously have no idea what happened between Generations and now. Sure, Generations didn't play like Classic Sonic, but quickly evading the G.U.N. truck and getting to the high path before it gets smashed was damn good level design, and a really fun way of turning an existing concept on its head. Why does this game look closer to Sonic 4?

 

[Maiar_m]

Doesn't excuse the dumb comment.

On topic: stage looks super dull, classic Sonic stages in Generations were cool even with the shitty physics

Hey, I'm not saying it's smart, it's a controversial opinion and therefore it's bound to derail a thread but there are quite a few people who played Mania because of their nostalgia for Sonic and found out they actually didn't like the formula anymore, or just didn't like it at all if they had never played a classic Sonic platformer before.

If this gameplay footage of Forces makes such players think of what they disliked with Mania / classic Sonic gameplay, regardless of how praised that game has been, I can understand the sentiment. To some, this will indeed look "as bad as Mania" as it does feature the same edit:basic counterintuitive gamedesign staples, objectively. Yours or my subjective appreciation of these staples may be positive, it doesn't invalidate the fact that this gameplay clip will look bad to some players who've (recently or not) found out they dislike Sonic platforming. I find that a valid opinion to discuss when both Mania (classic) and Forces (new, could have been a different take) release the same year. As in "looks like I'm not going to enjoy this either". No? Ok.

 

[RagnarokX]

Need a boostpad just before the lip because you know, the player might not be going fast enough.

There's a boostpad in the small half pipe before that area too, because again th player obviously can't figure out what spindashing would do in that situation even though they make it a one button input and auto rev.

I put a 4th "SWEET, BOOSTPAD!" on the last frame of the gif when he hits it in a halfpipe. It's weird they put a boostpad in there when it borrows every other gimmick straight out of Casino Night:

Including these

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Is it me or it looks a bit rough? Still getting the game but still.

 

[RagnarokX]

Isn't Forces's spindashed the same nerfed garbage from Generations?

Nerfed? The spindash in Generations is ridiculously overpowered. Many many times more powerful than the classic games. What's garbage is rolling without it.

 

[Diablohead]

Isn't Forces's spindashed the same nerfed garbage from Generations?

seems like it's the same, hold to spindash, it doesn't change the pitch of the rev sound, you can tap it to go fast like sonic adventure, pretty much the same bollocks.

 

[Kneefoil]

This looks like a level made by an in-game level creator. Floating, bland blocks dotted with preset interactables drifting by a background that doesn’t quite mesh with the levels art style.

Complete with ‘just spam rings all over’ section.

That's... not inaccurate. Y'know it wouldn't even be that surprising to me if it turned out Sonic Team had developed a level creator in order to take shortcuts with designing the levels.

You know you really got that Sonic design down when you have to put multiple speedboosters on downhill slopes to make Sonic go fast.

(text added by me)

Sonic goes down a hill and hits a speedbooster. He hits a steeper downward slope and SLOWS DOWN. Then he falls off a ledge and hits TWO MORE speedboosters on a downward slope and gets hardly any height off the ramp it leads to. Generations didn't do this kind of shit. How is this game worse than Generations?

Didn't even notice that. That's pretty funny. Also disappointing.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

It doesn't really seem like hyperbole to me. Sonic Team has had chance after chance to improve. Maybe there's more to these zones, but the level design was similar-to-better in the classic Generations stages. So, after six years, I think it's reasonable to level some criticism at these design choices.

I can usually defend Sonic Team, but after this long, I have to see this for what it is. People complained that they were remaking GH so many times. So, we get a "new" Casino Night with less colour and flair and the same boost pad design we've had to endure for years in Modern Sonic games. I'm honestly surprised that some can accept this when it's essentially another reworked zone with fluff.

The criticism is fair. The hyperbole isn't. When I see words like trash and garbage thrown around so freely, it shows me a limited person who wants attention or has had little experience playing legitimate garbage games. Taking a moment to post beyond a simple "looks shit" does wonders for demonstrating actual thought and discussion. Also, not that it's necessarily an excuse, but this *is* a budget game. All the comparisons I've seen here have been made to full blown productions Sonic Team has previously charged full MSRP for. This is clearly a lower budget affair, and it shows, so the shock is a little surprising honestly.

 

[liquidtmd]

WHAT even is this game?

I mean, we're only like a month away from release and the tone of this game and its "goal" is all over the place.

I'm tempted to go on blackout from here and just buy it blind because it looks like it'll deliver in terms of sheer absurdity.

What's so complicated? It's a Sonic branded, Hooters cross promoted game that's been in the oven for years, looks worse in respects than a Wii game from seven years ago scored by the London Symphony Orchestra?

Winner!

 

[RagnarokX]

From reddit:

Two boostpads right next to eachother. Why? They aren't cumulative... And they don't even send into a speed section. They just throw you into this pit:

 

[pennypincher]

It looks as good as Mania.

Boy. Now that is insulting, huh?

 

[Maztorre]

Compare this to the equivalent stage in Mania, Studiopolis. This is thoroughly mediocre.

The criticism is fair. The hyperbole isn't. When I see words like trash and garbage thrown around so freely, it shows me a limited person who wants attention or has had little experience playing legitimate garbage games. Taking a moment to post beyond a simple "looks shit" does wonders for demonstrating actual thought and discussion. Also, not that it's necessarily an excuse, but this *is* a budget game. All the comparisons I've seen here have been made to full blown productions Sonic Team has previously charged full MSRP for. This is clearly a lower budget affair, and it shows, so the shock is a little surprising honestly.

It looks like trash/garbage/shit/whatever next to the other Sonic game that literally came out a couple of months ago from a separate team. That's the problem.

 

[Bioshocker]

Gorgeous looking. But it still lacks the great character of Sonic Mania.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Sonic Generations still is one of the best looking 3D cartoon games. What is this? Downgrade in favor of Switch? Not that the game itself sounds too much better. All they needed to do is something like Colours, instead it's fanfiction town.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Making a worse looking game than Generations 6 years later and in a totally different generation of hardware is baffling. I guess Sonic Team lost just more and more of their talent as the years have gone by (The Hedgehog Engine designer, Yoshihisa Hashimoto, leaving for Square Enix for instance and then getting out of games entirely)

It kinda seems over for them.

 

[brad-t]

The criticism is fair. The hyperbole isn't. When I see words like trash and garbage thrown around so freely, it shows me a limited person who wants attention or has had little experience playing legitimate garbage games. Taking a moment to post beyond a simple "looks shit" does wonders for demonstrating actual thought and discussion. Also, not that it's necessarily an excuse, but this *is* a budget game. All the comparisons I've seen here have been made to full blown productions Sonic Team has previously charged full MSRP for. This is clearly a lower budget affair, and it shows, so the shock is a little surprising honestly.

This "budget title" argument doesn't hold a lot of water when one of the best-received Sonic games of all time just came out and costs $20.

I don't think it's that unfair to say that this game looks like "garbage", when we take this as an overall summary of the game's qualities, and not a specific attack on its visuals, sound or overall jankyness (all of which are present). It certainly looks like a title that would be probably unanimously criticized if not for the character attached to it.

 

[allenpergallon]

seems like it's the same, hold to spindash, it doesn't change the pitch of the rev sound, you can tap it to go fast like sonic adventure, pretty much the same bollocks.

Er... the great thing about Generations spindash is that you had options. You could stop, hold down and press jump to rev it up like the old games, hold the spindash button down to slowly build to max speed without having to come to a stop, or you could mash the spindash button to get the same feel of the classic rev (complete with the changing pitch) but without having to stop in your tracks and you could reach the highest charge faster than just holding the spindash button down.

I can't say I have been keeping up with the spindash in this game but it's strange if they pulled away from that.

 

[Spinluck]

Sonic Generations still is one of the best looking 3D cartoon games. What is this? Downgrade in favor of Switch? Not that the game itself sounds too much better. All they needed to do is something like Colours, instead it's fanfiction town.

Sonic Generations came out on PS3 and 360, you do know the Switch is more powerful than those consoles right?

This falls on SEGA/Sonic Team, not the Switch.

 

[TrueBlue]

Sonic Generations came out on PS3 and 360, you do know the Switch is more powerful than those consoles right?

Aye. Even if the Switch version is holding things back, it should be capable of at least topping Generations.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Making a worse looking game than Generations 6 years later and in a totally different generation of hardware is baffling. I guess Sonic Team lost just more and more of their talent as the years have gone by (The Hedgehog Engine designer, Yoshihisa Hashimoto, leaving for Square Enix for instance and then getting out of games entirely)

It kinda seems over for them.

Oh.


I could handwave Sonic Boom and Lost Worlds, because I knew the main team would certainly make a real sequel to Generations/Colours at some point. But now all hope seems lost.

 

[Spinluck]

LOVED the music, hated the physics. I see Izuka didn't improve a single bit over classic Sonic gameplay from Sonic Generations... I just can't understand how they can't get it right but a bunch of indie developers, can. Jump seems off (he go up and go down fast without momentum), lot of scripted events where he get super fast from nothing as soon as he steps on some places, and the same way he get fast from nothing, he also stops from nothing as when he get to the green flipper. Not to mention when he picked up the momentum on the way down and suddenly stops at the end to make the "over the edge" animation...

This proves that Izuka doesn't care to emulate the physics of the classics. They can literally just have Whitehead come in and aid them in that aspect.

I think they are just trying to do their own thing with Classic Sonic and it just doesn't translate well with what people are accustomed to with 2D Sonic. In fact it cashes with it.

 

[Marcel]

You know you really got that Sonic design down when you have to put multiple speedboosters on downhill slopes to make Sonic go fast.

Sonic goes down a hill and hits a speedbooster. He hits a steeper downward slope and SLOWS DOWN. Then he falls off a ledge and hits another speedbooster on a downward slope and hardly gets any height off the ramp it leads to. Generations didn't do this kind of shit. How is this game worse than Generations?

Visually the level needs more lighting but is an okay concept.

Music: as awful as this game's Green Hill. Seems like they're going to overuse that synthetic drum in every Classic Sonic track because they think that's what the Genesis games sounded like just like with Sonic 4.

Making a worse looking game than Generations 6 years later and in a totally different generation of hardware is baffling. I guess Sonic Team lost just more and more of their talent as the years have gone by (The Hedgehog Engine designer, Yoshihisa Hashimoto, leaving for Square Enix for instance and then getting out of games entirely)

It kinda seems over for them.

Jesus wept. Forces is a mess. The Modern Sonic fanbase deserves its bad rap if they're going to give this half-baked game good sales.

 

[R_thanatos]

Watched the video.

it's alright

Music is good, level design seems mostly decent , there is a lack of ennemies for some reason , but other than that it's quite ok. Animation doesn't seems worse than generations .. it's hard to judge the physics with me controlling sonic

it's alright.

 

[Shadio]

Also, not that it's necessarily an excuse, but this *is* a budget game. All the comparisons I've seen here have been made to full blown productions Sonic Team has previously charged full MSRP for. This is clearly a lower budget affair, and it shows, so the shock is a little surprising honestly.

The last Sonic game to be sold for a full $60 was Sonic 06. Since then, they've been $50.

The most recent release was Sonic Lost World, which I believe had the lowest sales of any major Sonic game so far. Lowering the price for future titles might just be their response to a disastrous launch. They've apparently been working on this title since 2013 so I don't think it's necessarily a budget title.

Or they could just be pricing it competitively against other platformers. Crash, Yooka-Laylee and Knack 2 were all released for $40 this year, and I think they're aimed at the same sort of audience.

 

[Marcel]

Watched the video.

it's alright

Music is good, level design seems mostly decent , there is a lack of ennemies for some reason , but other than that it's quite ok. Animation doesn't seems worse than generations .. it's hard to judge the physics with me controlling sonic

it's alright.

Seems like you're trying to convince yourself that it's "alright" rather than anyone else.

 

[Blueblur1]

You know you really got that Sonic design down when you have to put multiple speedboosters on downhill slopes to make Sonic go fast.

(text added by me)

Sonic goes down a hill and hits a speedbooster. He hits a steeper downward slope and SLOWS DOWN. Then he falls off a ledge and hits TWO MORE speedboosters on a downward slope and gets hardly any height off the ramp it leads to. Generations didn't do this kind of shit. How is this game worse than Generations?

Visually the level needs more lighting but is an okay concept.

Music: as awful as this game's Green Hill. Seems like they're going to overuse that synthetic drum in every Classic Sonic track because they think that's what the Genesis games sounded like just like with Sonic 4.

Perfect demonstration of how bad the 2D Sonic gameplay is in Forces. Its been this way since we first saw Green Hill Zone footage.

wat

Egg Emperor or whatever its called. That stage is awful. Background and foreground elements hurt visibility, the stage's dark color palette is ugly and makes the stage look like a poor man's Carnival Night, the layout is narrow with no alternate paths, the recycled Carnival Night and Sonic 3 Bonus Stage elements are incredibly boring and lazy, and the final boss is super weak.

Taxman and team failed spectacularly with that zone. Metallic Madness should've been the end of the game.

 

[RagnarokX]

The reason there are no enemies is probably because they are copying Casino Night Zone so hard. Casino Night Zone only had 1 badnik, Crawl:

And they just bounce Sonic with their bumper shield.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I was gonna say something about Casino night also having wacky bat things, but that was probably Sonic 4 riding the same aesthetic so hard I blurred its casino into 2's.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Sonic 06 has a different set of controls, a different set of power-ups (as well as a different method of obtaining them), a completely different physics engine, a different art style, different game mechanics, a completely different musical direction, and larger and more complex level design.

All that stuff you listed is exactly what makes it a worse version of Sonic Adventure. Bad controls that are outright broken in some cases like the boarding segments, unnecessary Havok physics leading to things like random boxes and flying robot parts scattered about just for the sake of showing it off, uglier art style with even less appealing redesigns than Boom, unnecessary mechanics like Shadow's vehicles and Tails' dummy rings, worse music, and obtuse level design. They're not different, they're just worse. Weird innit...

But if my posts really bother you so much you can just put me on your ignore list and go back to praising the game.

This is rich coming from the guy so clearly bothered by Sonic Forces that he insists on making the exact same "this is shit mania is better" post in nearly every thread about it. Just ignore it bro!

 

[Sami+]

The criticism is fair. The hyperbole isn't. When I see words like trash and garbage thrown around so freely, it shows me a limited person who wants attention or has had little experience playing legitimate garbage games. Taking a moment to post beyond a simple "looks shit" does wonders for demonstrating actual thought and discussion. Also, not that it's necessarily an excuse, but this *is* a budget game. All the comparisons I've seen here have been made to full blown productions Sonic Team has previously charged full MSRP for. This is clearly a lower budget affair, and it shows, so the shock is a little surprising honestly.

I've been a Sonic fan since I was a little kid so trust me I have a LOT of experience playing garbage video games. I do like attention though! ☺️

Also it being low budget garbage doesn't really excuse it being garbage, especially seeing as how Mania probably had a fraction of the budget and ended up being a vastly superior product.

 

[Mory Dunz]

You know you really got that Sonic design down when you have to put multiple speedboosters on downhill slopes to make Sonic go fast.

(text added by me)

Sonic goes down a hill and hits a speedbooster. He hits a steeper downward slope and SLOWS DOWN. Then he falls off a ledge and hits TWO MORE speedboosters on a downward slope and gets hardly any height off the ramp it leads to. Generations didn't do this kind of shit. How is this game worse than Generations?

Visually the level needs more lighting but is an okay concept.

Music: as awful as this game's Green Hill. Seems like they're going to overuse that synthetic drum in every Classic Sonic track because they think that's what the Genesis games sounded like just like with Sonic 4.

What horrible level design...Tropical freeze stays robbed.

 

[Ristifer]

Egg Emperor or whatever its called. That stage is awful. Background and foreground elements hurt visibility, the stage's dark color palette is ugly and makes the stage look like a poor man's Carnival Night, the layout is narrow with no alternate paths, the recycled Carnival Night and Sonic 3 Bonus Stage elements are incredibly boring and lazy, and the final boss is super weak.

Taxman and team failed spectacularly with that zone. Metallic Madness should've been the end of the game.

I strongly disagree with this, but we all have our classic stages that we don't like, so I can understand.

 

[Village]

I like the aesthetic a lot

The game play looks rather slow and boring though


But hey they actually showed another level

 

[The Xtortionist]

Egg Emperor or whatever its called. That stage is awful. Background and foreground elements hurt visibility, the stage's dark color palette is ugly and makes the stage look like a poor man's Carnival Night, the layout is narrow with no alternate paths, the recycled Carnival Night and Sonic 3 Bonus Stage elements are incredibly boring and lazy, and the final boss is super weak.

Taxman and team failed spectacularly with that zone. Metallic Madness should've been the end of the game.

Titanic Monarch is great imo. The dark palette gives a huge sense of foreboding, and works with the music to create a unique and hostile atmosphere for a Sonic level. Love the nighttime city backdrop with the relatively close buildings, too. The S&K bonus stage orbs are a ton of fun to fling Sonic around with. The level is linear, sure, but I thought it worked as a final challenge gauntlet at the end of the game.

The reason there are no enemies is probably because they are copying Casino Night Zone so hard. Casino Night Zone only had 1 badnik, Crawl:

At least Casino Night looks and sounds awesome

and has level design

 

[PSqueak]

I'm not sure I understand why this seems strange to you.

This game simply hasn't looked very good at all. The classic Sonic gameplay looks nearly the same as Generations, which was passable then but absolutely not after Mania has released. The level design for classic Sonic looks poor, the music isn't standing out for the most part and the art direction is bland.

Meanwhile, Mania was an acclaimed game that looked great from the moment is was revealed.

Because people have all their right to not like Mania but everyone in this thread dog pile the shit out of them.

 

[Marcel]

Because people have all their right to not like Mania but everyone in this thread dog pile the shit out of them.

People disagreeing about Sonic games on the internet? Well I never.

 

[RagnarokX]

Well, I found AN enemy:

an egg pawn

 

[The Xtortionist]

Generations' classic gameplay wasn't amazing by any stretch, but it was a decent enough vehicle to move Sonic through memorable setpieces and environments. Forces seems to have forgotten those things, so all we're left with is some barebones platforming.

 

[Sami+]

All that stuff you listed is exactly what makes it a worse version of Sonic Adventure. Bad controls that are outright broken in some cases like the boarding segments, unnecessary Havok physics leading to things like random boxes and flying robot parts scattered about just for the sake of showing it off, uglier art style with even less appealing redesigns than Boom, unnecessary mechanics like Shadow's vehicles and Tails' dummy rings, worse music, and obtuse level design. They're not different, they're just worse. Weird innit...

You're describing a bunch of shit that's different. Like... I actually refuse to believe you're being genuine in arguing that Adventure and 06 have as much in common with each other as Generations and Forces. You have to be joking.

This is rich coming from the guy so clearly bothered by Sonic Forces that he insists on making the exact same "this is shit mania is better" post in nearly every thread about it. Just ignore it bro!

Yeah I think Forces looks like shit and I think it's funny to say that every time new media comes out for it, because I think it's true. If you find me annoying you can ignore me.

 

[TrueBlue]

I was actually pretty positive/optimistic about it back when it was called Project Sonic 2017 but I think it was the custom hero trailer that broke me

So it would seem!

I think someone can replay Mania 4 or 5 times and not get sick of the amazing level design and music.

I dont think ill replay Forces more than once. Just like for Unleashed and Sonic 06.

That's fair.

 

[Regiruler]

Feels like Tropical Resort got mashed with the Silent Forest stage with the mecha Owl in Lost World, and then they randomly put Casino Night tropes all over it.

I don't dislike it, but man it's a hodgepodge of aesthetics.

I revisted the owl stage not too long ago and I was honestly impressed by how cohesive it was.

 

[TheDinoman]

I'M ONLY HUMAN, AFTER ALL

 

[shackdaddy836]

Cant wait for the gamegrumps series of this

 

[Ragnarsson]

Even if we ignore the shoddy physics, this looks thoroughly uninspired. It's too dark, it lacks contrast (I actually lost track of Sonic for a couple of seconds), it's too clustered and it does nothing interesting with any of the visuals it throws at you. I liked Sonic Colors, I liked Sonic Generations but this is so unappealing.

 

[Camjo-Z]

You're describing a bunch of shit that's different. Like... I actually refuse to believe you're being genuine in arguing that Adventure and 06 have as much in common with each other as Generations and Forces. You have to be joking.

Yeah I think Forces looks like shit and I think it's funny to say that every time new media comes out for it, because I think it's true. If you find me annoying you can ignore me.

Nope, not joking.

And didn't say you were annoying, just hypocritical.

 

[Blueblur1]

I strongly disagree with this, but we all have our classic stages that we don't like, so I can understand.

Huh? I'm not saying I dislike Carnival Night; I really like Carnival Night. I'm saying that Titanic Monarch (I looked it up) is a crappy stage with thrown together parts that do not make for a fun or interesting stage.

Studiopolis, Mirage Saloon and Press Garden are fantastic. Egg Monarch is a dud.

Titanic Monarch is great imo. The dark palette gives a huge sense of foreboding, and works with the music to create a unique and hostile atmosphere for a Sonic level. Love the nighttime city backdrop with the relatively close buildings, too. The S&K bonus stage orbs are a ton of fun to fling Sonic around with. The level is linear, sure, but I thought it worked as a final challenge gauntlet at the end of the game.

I'll have to agree to disagree. I think the stage design is messy, ugly, and doesn't gel with the rest of the classic and new stages. The nighttime backdrop, while visually appealing, appears sparingly and doesn't match the level of detail normally present in 2D Sonic stage backdrops. The S&K stage orbs were not fun for me and should've been left in the bonus stages they originated from. I felt the stage was a chore. For me, it wasn't a challenge at all.

My original point might be getting lost though. As I mentioned earlier, this Sonic Forces stage seems to be uglier and duller than Titanic Monarch.

 

[Phu]

Why does it look dark and flat despite all the neon everywhere?