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[davepoobond]

Either you're reading the numbers wrong, or Sony are lying in that financial report.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatapsp_e.html

Says there they have produced 25 million. I have no idea what the LTD sales of the PSP are worldwide though. 21-22 million maybe?

So yeah, from that the attach ratio is more like 3.2 or something.

those #s go off of production shipments, and not recorded sales. they're not exactly comparable to Nintendo's numbers as far as i know...we'd have to have independent sales data and that's hard to calculate since we don't have numbers for everywhere in the world

 

[starship]

I just figured out that you only count the past 15 months software and hardware shipments for PSP. :lol
You may know that PSP was launched in 2004 yeah?

 

[davepoobond]

I just figured out that you only count the past 15 months software and hardware shipments for PSP. :lol
You may know that PSP was launched in 2004 yeah?

yes yes yes, its late. but at least i figured out that the PSP's attach rate has been going up at least


i updated it



GLOBAL ATTACH RATE

Sony PSP

Q1 Software unit sales - 9.9 million units (9,900,000)
LTD Software unit production shipments - 101.4 million (101,400,000)
LTD Hardware production shipments - 25.39 million (25,390,000)

For Q1, attach ratio is incalculable, no "production shipment" numbers
LTD attach ratio is 3.99


Nintendo DS

Q1 Software unit sales - 34,260,000
LTD Software unit sales - 218,240,000
LTD Hardware sales - 47,270,000

For Q1, attach ratio is 0.72
LTD attach ratio is 4.62

 

[MaddenNFL64]

It's not ahead, but it's pretty even with the DS. DS almost at 50 million is crazy.

 

[davepoobond]

It's not ahead, but it's pretty even with the DS. DS almost at 50 million is crazy.

production shipments will always be > sold to retailers, though.

so you can probably assume at most PSP's is like...3 and some change

 

[Jokeropia]

The Q1 loss brings SCEI's total profits since the beginning of the PS2 generation down to $76 million. One more quarterly loss and it will be completely wiped out.

 

[LizardKing]

thanks davepoobond for clearing it up. so why is bycha lying to us ?

 

[bycha]

Ok, ok guyz here s to clarify my statement about PSP.


You can get Global attach rate by method used by davepoobond. Software shipments/hardware shipments. It's a simple lazy method. Let's call it standard method. But I'm not lazy and don't think this method is correct in the middle of hardware lifecycle. Here's why:


1. You will sell all software u shipped sooner rather than later. Store will sell it for 9.99 and clear the stock. With hardware it's not that easy. You can OVERSTOCK THE CHANNEL and that happens regularly, just look at 360. PSP was overstocked for long time in my opinion while NDS have very little stock in the channel we all know that.
2. You still ship software AFTER U NOT SHIPPING HARWARE ANYMORE -- so attach rate is getting bigger through time.
3. In the last years of hardware life attach rate is increasing to INSANE numbers. For last 15 month PS2 attach rate by standard method is VERY HIGH -- 13.25. This is against 10.5 for LTD.

That's why i would calculate attach rate by another method: Software shipments/estimate of ACTUAL hardware sold.

Best estimate i have.
Here it is:
PSP 101.4/22 == 4.61
NDS 218.4/46 == 4.74

Ok, so looking at this you will say NDS attach rate is still higher. But another great factor is dynamics.

Last 15 month by standard method -- Software shipments/hardware shipments (I'm not crazy enough to have historical dates for estimates.)

PSP 64/10.5 == 6.1
NDS 157.8/30.5 == 5.16

It is clear for me. So i still stand on my statement that PSP's attach rate is (i.e. CURRENTLY, last 12-15 moth) clearly greater than NDS.


Explanation or WHY DON'T WE SEE THIS? In short: PS2-ports. PSP has much less shovelware, a lot of decent ps2-ports and your AVERAGE PSP game sells better that NDS. It SHOULD cauze it costs higher to develope.

We don't see that because NEOGAF lost it's full NPD reports. We see only top games. And beeing much more successful console with more KILLER-APPS we see only NDS.

Here you go: the great mystery revealed.
You know what, maybe i will do attach rate for each console in the future and will update it. Both by method davepoobond suggested and by mine.

 

[Sharp]

Ok, ok guyz here s to clarify my statement about PSP.


You can get Global attach rate by method used by davepoobond. Software shipments/hardware shipments. It's a simple lazy method. Let's call it standard method. But I'm not lazy and don't think this method is correct in the middle of hardware lifecycle. Here's why:


1. You will sell all software u shipped sooner rather than later. Store will sell it for 9.99 and clear the stock. With hardware it's not that easy. You can OVERSTOCK THE CHANNEL and that happens regularly, just look at 360. PSP was overstocked for long time in my opinion while NDS have very little stock in the channel we all know that.
2. You still ship software AFTER U NOT SHIPPING HARWARE ANYMORE -- so attach rate is getting bigger through time.
3. In the last years of hardware life attach rate is increasing to INSANE numbers. For last 15 month PS2 attach rate by standard method is VERY HIGH -- 13.25. This is against 10.5 for LTD.

That's why i would calculate attach rate by another method: Software shipments/estimate of ACTUAL hardware sold.

Best estimate i have.
Here it is:
PSP 101.4/22 == 4.61
NDS 218.4/46 == 4.74

Ok, so looking at this you will say NDS attach rate is still higher. But another great factor is dynamics.

Last 15 month by standard method -- Software shipments/hardware shipments (I'm not crazy enough to have historical dates for estimates.)

PSP 64/10.5 == 6.1
NDS 157.8/30.5 == 5.16

It is clear for me. So i still stand on my statement that PSP's attach rate is (i.e. CURRENTLY, last 12-15 moth) clearly greater than NDS.


Explanation or WHY DON'T WE SEE THIS? In short: PS2-ports. PSP has much less shovelware, a lot of decent ps2-ports and your AVERAGE PSP game sells better that NDS. It SHOULD cauze it costs higher to develope.

We don't see that because NEOGAF lost it's full NPD reports. We see only top games. And beeing much more successful console with more KILLER-APPS we see only NDS.

Here you go: the great mystery revealed.
You know what, maybe i will do attach rate for each console in the future and will update it. Both by method davepoobond suggested and by mine.

This is a flawed method for several reasons. Firstly, not every game shipped is eventually sold--far from it, in fact; secondly, the PSP numbers from Famitsu show that there's pretty much no way it could be selling anywhere close to that much software in Japan; thirdly, leaked NPD numbers from this month--a month of amazing PSP success--show truly abysmal top five software sales. Unless Europe is buying PSP software by the truckload--and Chart Track suggest that it isn't--the attach ratio you've come up with makes pretty much no sense when compared to actual sales. Same with statements like "the average PSP game sells better than the average DS game"--Japan alone, along with the general software success of the DS, makes this virtually impossible, plus it has nothing to do with attach ratio.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

This is a flawed method for several reasons. Firstly, not every game shipped is eventually sold--far from it, in fact; secondly, the PSP numbers from Famitsu show that there's pretty much no way it could be selling anywhere close to that much software in Japan; thirdly, leaked NPD numbers from this month--a month of amazing PSP success--show truly abysmal top five software sales. Unless Europe is buying PSP software by the truckload--and Chart Track suggest that it isn't--the attach ratio you've come up with makes pretty much no sense when compared to actual sales. Same with statements like "the average PSP game sells better than the average DS game"--Japan alone, along with the general software success of the DS, makes this virtually impossible, plus it has nothing to do with attach ratio.

Pretty much.

 

[davepoobond]

actually what bycha says (without his data to prove it) flies with the globabl attach rate when i figured it out for the past 15 months.

the attach rate is going UP, meaning more people are buying games %age-wise than ever for the PSP.

 

[Jokeropia]

Another major reason bycha's reasoning is flawed is that Sony pretty much had to shut down PSP production for a while due to severe overstocking of the channel. This lead to virtually no PSP hardware shipments (only 10,000 were shipped to North America for the holiday quarter last year) while software still shipped at normal rate making the isolated attach rate for that period seem very impressive. Similarly, the original Xbox had an insane tie-ratio of 1604:1 in the March NPD just because the hardware is no longer sold. In the PSP's case it's doubly misleading since PSP hardware WAS being sold during this period, it just wasn't manufactured. ("Production shipments".)

the attach rate is going UP, meaning more people are buying games %age-wise than ever for the PSP.

No, attach rates always go up when a system ages. That's because existing users buy games in addition to new users and is the reason Gamecube, Xbox and PS2 all have much better attach rates than the "record breaking" 360.

PSP software sales were in fact generally better in 2005 and it's games actually charted in NPD and Chart Track reports back then. (And more often in MC charts.)

 

[bycha]

This is a flawed method for several reasons. Firstly, not every game shipped is eventually sold--far from it, in fact; secondly, the PSP numbers from Famitsu show that there's pretty much no way it could be selling anywhere close to that much software in Japan; thirdly, leaked NPD numbers from this month--a month of amazing PSP success--show truly abysmal top five software sales. Unless Europe is buying PSP software by the truckload--and Chart Track suggest that it isn't--the attach ratio you've come up with makes pretty much no sense when compared to actual sales. Same with statements like "the average PSP game sells better than the average DS game"--Japan alone, along with the general software success of the DS, makes this virtually impossible, plus it has nothing to do with attach ratio.

You mean that unsold software is shipped back to manufacturer by some chains/stores. Yes, but this is unmeasurable. I agree that best method to get attach rate is to know exactly how much software and hardware was sold. But we don't know that. My method tries to adjust to more real comparison. Comparison. We may never know real attach rate for each console, but we can compare. After the end of systems life what you will get by my method and by standard will be the same. So we can go back and compare which numbers calculated right now by which method was closer to end results.

Nobody's saying that top 5 is not low for PSP, but your average psp game must be selling, because they do ship a lot of software.

Another major reason bycha's reasoning is flawed is that Sony pretty much had to shut down PSP production for a while due to severe overstocking of the channel. This lead to virtually no PSP hardware shipments (only 10,000 were shipped to North America for the holiday quarter last year) while software still shipped at normal rate making the isolated attach rate for that period seem very impressive. Similarly, the original Xbox had an insane tie-ratio of 1604:1 in the March NPD just because the hardware is no longer sold. In the PSP's case it's doubly misleading since PSP hardware WAS being sold during this period, it just wasn't manufactured. ("Production shipments".)

No, attach rates always go up when a system ages. That's because existing users buy games in addition to new users and is the reason Gamecube, Xbox and PS2 all have much better attach rates than the "record breaking" 360.

PSP software sales were in fact generally better in 2005 and it's games actually charted in NPD and Chart Track reports back then. (And more often in MC charts.)

I think PSP is still overstocked. There are comparatively much more PSPs on shelves than NDSs.
You can do isolated attach for substantial period of time. Month or 3 months will tell you nothing, 15 months is another story.

Attach rate of PSP comparatively go higher than NDS.

U see only top games. In 2005 of course u would see PSP. There was no 360. And DS was losing in hardware to PSP badly. The amount of software shipped comparatively wasn't that great if you look at 2006 and 2007.

 

[bycha]

The Q1 loss brings SCEI's total profits since the beginning of the PS2 generation down to $76 million. One more quarterly loss and it will be completely wiped out.

PS2 generation is still going. The thing about Sony that revealed it's ugly head right now: you may lose in one department to gain in another. As i understand it Sony is losing in games but in movies it will gain a lot due to the win of the format and royalties for all those years.

 

[Zynx]

PS2 generation is still going. The thing about Sony that revealed it's ugly head right now: you may lose in one department to gain in another. As i understand it Sony is losing in games but in movies it will gain a lot due to the win of the format and royalties for all those years.

By now, winning the format war is the ONLY way it'll make the losses of the PS3 worth it...PS2 has been one of the most profitable products in Sony's history, and almost all of its profits have been wiped out by "investment" in PS3.

 

[Jokeropia]

You mean that unsold software is shipped back to manufacturer by some chains/stores. Yes, but this is unmeasurable. I agree that best method to get attach rate is to know exactly how much software and hardware was sold. But we don't know that. My method tries to adjust to more real comparison. Comparison.

Comparing hardware sold to software shipped is never a good comparison. The software won't even have to be returned for the figures to be distorted as long as a large number remains in stock at stores when the comparison is made.

You can do isolated attach for substantial period of time. Month or 3 months will tell you nothing, 15 months is another story.

But PSP was so massively overstocked during those 15 months that the figures are still distorted. Only 8.36 million PSPs were shipped (in production shipments) worldwide from March 06 to March 07, compared to 23.55 million DSs. (We don't have production shipments for June 07 so you can't extend the comparison further.) That's a 2.82:1 advantage for the DS which is significantly higher than the average LTD installed base advantage it had during those months. Since it's the average LTD installed base that determines a system's software buying power for any isolated period (not the hardware sales in that period!), this results in a significant distortion of the figures.

Any system experiencing a virtual stop in hardware sales (or in the PSP's case, production shipments) will have a similar spike in isolated attach rate.

U see only top games. In 2005 of course u would see PSP. There was no 360. And DS was losing in hardware to PSP badly.

Actually this month we saw top PSP sales in the US as well, and they were very dire. PSP was only destroying DS in the US during the first few months after it's launch, but maintained software in the charts longer than that. Looking at franchise followups on the PSP, Madden 07 sold less than Madden 06, NBA Live 07 sold less than NBA Live 06, SOCOM Bravo 2 sold less than SOCOM Bravo 1, Need for Speed Carbon sold less than Need for Speed Most Wanted and GTA:VCS did nowhere near as well as GTA:LCS. There are some exceptions, but overall this happens much more often than it should on a growing userbase.

 

[kammy]

So, Sony are on nearly 4 billion, Nintendo are on 8 billion and MS are on -7 billion

:lol

 

[apujanata]

Comparing hardware sold to software shipped is never a good comparison. The software won't even have to be returned for the figures to be distorted as long as a large number remains in stock at stores when the comparison is made.
But PSP was so massively overstocked during those 15 months that the figures are still distorted. Only 8.36 million PSPs were shipped (in production shipments) worldwide from March 06 to March 07, compared to 23.55 million DSs. (We don't have production shipments for June 07 so you can't extend the comparison further.) That's a 2.82:1 advantage for the DS which is significantly higher than the average LTD installed base advantage it had during those months. Since it's the average LTD installed base that determines a system's software buying power for any isolated period (not the hardware sales in that period!), this results in a significant distortion of the figures.

Any system experiencing a virtual stop in hardware sales (or in the PSP's case, production shipments) will have a similar spike in isolated attach rate.
Actually this month we saw top PSP sales in the US as well, and they were very dire. PSP was only destroying DS in the US during the first few months after it's launch, but maintained software in the charts longer than that. Looking at franchise followups on the PSP, Madden 07 sold less than Madden 06, NBA Live 07 sold less than NBA Live 06, SOCOM Bravo 2 sold less than SOCOM Bravo 1, Need for Speed Carbon sold less than Need for Speed Most Wanted and GTA:VCS did nowhere near as well as GTA:LCS. There are some exceptions, but overall this happens much more often than it should on a growing userbase.

Have you calculated the ratio as per your own suggestion ?

Shouldn't bycha update the OP now with MS figure ?

 

[AlternativeUlster]

So, Sony are on nearly 4 billion, Nintendo are on 8 billion and MS are on -7 billion

:lol

Uh, Sony is also nearly 3 billion. I don't know how people round up from 2.something to 4. Also, Sony did lose 2 billion last year. Do you think they will lose another 2 next year?

 

[pswii60]

Have you calculated the ratio as per your own suggestion ?

Shouldn't bycha update the OP now with MS figure ?

Why bump this ancient thread when a new one could be created?

 

[Xapati]

How the hell does MS lose this kind of money. RROD?

 

[Ventrue]

How the hell does MS lose this kind of money. RROD?

Yes, because this thread is from months ago when they'd just had the whole debacle with shelling out for that.

 

[Weisheit]

Didn't see this posted.

 

[Jokeropia]

Have you calculated the ratio as per your own suggestion ?

I think so yes, but that was months ago so I don't have the data next to me now.

 

[Jokeropia]

*updated software shipments*

Didn't see this posted.

Nice! Some good increases for a couple of games there.

 

[Neomoto]

Nintendogs approaching 16 million?! That is more than any GTA title correct? Hot damm. Also excellent numbers for NSMB.

Why is Zelda missing from the Wii list? Would have liked to see updated shipments.

FY*       Sony**        Nintendo        Microsoft
2007   -1,969,000,000  1,489,000,000   -1,892,000,000

Wow, almost 2 billion in losses for both Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo has made 1.5 billion in profits..

Also record losses for Microsoft (Xbox). I thought 360 was supposed to MAKE money not lose even more, and this is it's second year on the market.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Wow, almost 2 billion in losses for both Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo has made 1.5 billion in profits..

Also record losses for Microsoft (Xbox). I thought 360 was supposed to MAKE money not lose even more, and this is it's second year on the market.

I guess you should have checked an actual new thread on the matter, but that wouldn't be in line with your agenda.

*crosses fingers for sp0rsk lock*

 

[bycha]

Updated. Now with Global Attach Ratio.


Comments.

Nintendo is God. $2.5 B pure profits this year. And possible $3 B next year. Biggest hardware manufacturer in portables and consoles. Biggest publisher in the world.

MS may post another negative or zero Q next quarter. No Halo 3 and usual holidays promotions.

Sony -- heavy losses continues due to $500 and starter pack promotions. Basically they can afford it with profits in electronics. With $400 set in stone -- at least till holidays 2008, possible spring 2009 and 65nm technology and much cheaper blu-ray they may hit green Summer 2008 or when GT5 ships.

 

[jarrod]

As mentioned in the other thread, adding old PS2/PSP production shipment total to current shipment figures to arrive at a ltd means you're double counting some units. Shipment ltd is going to be somewhat lower for both platforms.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Updated. Now with Global Attach Ratio.

Comments.

MS may post another negative or zero Q next quarter. No Halo 3 and usual holidays promotions.

I would say "less Halo 3", not no Halo 3. The title should have a good attach rate through the holidays, moving at least another million this year. And Mass Effect should provide substantial revenue as well.

As Sonycowboy pointed out in the Q4 earnings thread, the Entertainment division would have only lost $193m without the billion dollar hit for the warranty and repairs charge; the division was starting to turn the corner then. I'd be very surprised if they dip to losses again. If they do, at this point in the lifecycle, something is deeply wrong wtih their model.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Didn't see this posted.

More then 11 millions for New Super Mario bros. sold ! Is it the third best selling Mario behind Bros. 1 and Bros. 3, right ?

Updated. Now with Global Attach Ratio.


Comments.

Nintendo is God. $2.5 B pure profits this year. And possible $3 B next year. Biggest hardware manufacturer in portables and consoles. Biggest publisher in the world.

MS may post another negative or zero Q next quarter. No Halo 3 and usual holidays promotions.

Sony -- heavy losses continues due to $500 and starter pack promotions. Basically they can afford it with profits in electronics. With $400 set in stone -- at least till holidays 2008, possible spring 2009 and 65nm technology and much cheaper blu-ray they may hit green Summer 2008 or when GT5 ships.

***ing incredible. Nintendo is really rising to the heavens.

 

[bycha]

As mentioned in the other thread, adding old PS2/PSP production shipment total to current shipment figures to arrive at a ltd means you're double counting some units. Shipment ltd is going to be somewhat lower for both platforms.

Yeah, but no other way to really count SW (

 

[Kinan]

Updated. Now with Global Attach Ratio.


Comments.

Nintendo is God. $2.5 B pure profits this year. And possible $3 B next year. Biggest hardware manufacturer in portables and consoles. Biggest publisher in the world.

MS may post another negative or zero Q next quarter. No Halo 3 and usual holidays promotions.

Sony -- heavy losses continues due to $500 and starter pack promotions. Basically they can afford it with profits in electronics. With $400 set in stone -- at least till holidays 2008, possible spring 2009 and 65nm technology and much cheaper blu-ray they may hit green Summer 2008 or when GT5 ships.

7.52M PS3s? I thought it was just 5.5. Attach ratio would be around 5 then.

 

[Jokeropia]

More then 11 millions for New Super Mario bros. sold ! Is it the third best selling Mario behind Bros. 1 and Bros. 3, right ?

I believe Super Mario World (20.6m) and Super Mario Land (18.06m) are ahead as well.

http://www.gamecubicle.com/features-mario-units_sold_sales.htm

NSMB will sell for a while yet though, it's done a steady ~333k per month all year. (9.5m through March, 10.5m through June.)

 

[bycha]

7.52M PS3s? I thought it was just 5.5. Attach ratio would be around 5 then.

Yeah changed already.

 

[Great Rumbler]

Didn't see this posted.

What happened to Twilight Princess?

 

[KRS7]

Basically they can afford it with profits in electronics.

If Sony can play the price game so can Microsoft, they have profits from other divisions too. MS is on track to make over 14 Billion in pure profits this year, so if they want to subsidize consoles they can do a lot easier than either Microsoft or Nintendo, but the question is if Microsoft is willing to take more losses in this division. But to put thing in perspective for those who fail to realize how big of a corporation Microsoft is. They could give away 30 million consoles for free this year, and still have more profits than Nintendo and Sony combined.

 

[Great Rumbler]

If Sony can play the price game so can Microsoft, they have profits from other divisions too. MS is on track to make over 14 Billion in pure profits this year, so if they want to subsidize consoles they can do a lot easier than either Microsoft or Nintendo, but the question is if Microsoft is willing to take more losses in this division. But to put thing in perspective for those who fail to realize how big of a corporation Microsoft is. They could give away 30 million consoles for free this year, and still have more profits than Nintendo and Sony combined.

MS can stay in the console business as long as their investors sit back and stay quite about the losses. The only variable in this situation is how long the later lasts.

 

[Gadfly]

Updated. Now with Global Attach Ratio.


Comments.

Nintendo is God. $2.5 B pure profits this year. And possible $3 B next year. Biggest hardware manufacturer in portables and consoles. Biggest publisher in the world.

MS may post another negative or zero Q next quarter. No Halo 3 and usual holidays promotions.

Sony -- heavy losses continues due to $500 and starter pack promotions. Basically they can afford it with profits in electronics. With $400 set in stone -- at least till holidays 2008, possible spring 2009 and 65nm technology and much cheaper blu-ray they may hit green Summer 2008 or when GT5 ships.

I find it amusing how you took upon yourself to sugar coat Sony's loss and on the other hand predicted a negative quarter for MS and forgot to mention MS can afford to lose money just as much as Sony can and probably a lot more if necessary.

 

[bycha]

I find it amusing how you took upon yourself to sugar coat Sony's loss and on the other hand predicted a negative quarter for MS and forgot to mention MS can afford to lose money just as much as Sony can and probably a lot more if necessary.

Well, think more. Sony's losses are guaranteed to pay off because they won battle for last physical format. Every single movie on Blu-ray sold for all years movies on Blu-ray will even be on the market will have Sony's royalties.

MS losses on xbox division are not guaranteed to pay off in any way.
Like Great Rumbler said -- until investors are willing to do this.

I would say "less Halo 3", not no Halo 3. The title should have a good attach rate through the holidays, moving at least another million this year. And Mass Effect should provide substantial revenue as well.

As Sonycowboy pointed out in the Q4 earnings thread, the Entertainment division would have only lost $193m without the billion dollar hit for the warranty and repairs charge; the division was starting to turn the corner then. I'd be very surprised if they dip to losses again. If they do, at this point in the lifecycle, something is deeply wrong wtih their model.

They've made price cut. And with every holidays season they move a lot of hardware and usually at discount or with special promotions.
Halo 3 -- yeah some lasting power.
Mass Effect -- it is tough to get new rpg franchise running. Last game (Jade Empire) had low sales. ME looks much better and have better hype but still it ain't no Halo.

 

[LOcKY]

excuse me? the HD format war is far from over dont proclaim something that simply isnt true

 

[[Nintex]]

excuse me? the HD format war is far from over dont proclaim something that simply isnt true

What are the standings?
Both HDDVD and BluRay bombed over here so I have absolutely no clue.:lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

They've made price cut. And with every holidays season they move a lot of hardware and usually at discount or with special promotions.
Halo 3 -- yeah some lasting power.
Mass Effect -- it is tough to get new rpg franchise running. Last game (Jade Empire) had low sales. ME looks much better and have better hype but still it ain't no Halo.

The price cut was pretty small, though, and we know they've made cost reductions on the hardware. ME is getting a "Gears-like" marketing treatment and is positioned as the big holiday title for MS (alongside sustained but reduced Halo 3 sales), so I'm not expecting it to be a Jade (or Blue Dragon) repeat.

Should be interesting to see - they'll move a lot of hardware alongside that software. I didn't get a sense for whether the hardware was at break-even or if they still lost much on it from the financials this quarter; if they lose any next then we'll know the hardware is still dragging them down. Considering the 1st party titles, installed base and other revenue streams (Live subscriptions, online ads, XBLA and Marketplace downloads) they'd should still be profitable next quarter. MS has been slow to get the hardware to break-even.

 

[Gadfly]

Well, think more. Sony's losses are guaranteed to pay off because they won battle for last physical format. Every single movie on Blu-ray sold for all years movies on Blu-ray will even be on the market will have Sony's royalties.

MS losses on xbox division are not guaranteed to pay off in any way.
Like Great Rumbler said -- until investors are willing to do this.




They've made price cut. And with every holidays season they move a lot of hardware and usually at discount or with special promotions.
Halo 3 -- yeah some lasting power.
Mass Effect -- it is tough to get new rpg franchise running. Last game (Jade Empire) had low sales. ME looks much better and have better hype but still it ain't no Halo.

Making money off game hardware and software is only -one- of the reasons Microsoft wants people to buy a 360. If Sony's plan with PS3 span "ten years", Microsoft's plan with getting a foothold in living room are even longer term. Good for them, they can afford to invest, make mistakes, learn and try again. But your comments about how Sony can afford to lose money as if Microsoft can’t, are plain silly and reek of excessive fanboyism.

 

[Brak]

So at 1.74 million, is Super Paper Mario Intsys' best selling game worldwide?

 

[Xavien]

excuse me? the HD format war is far from over dont proclaim something that simply isnt true

Indeed, Paramount switching over to HD-DVD exclusive now means that the HD format war might never end. In the end dual-format players will become widely available and both sides of the format wars will lose.

 

[bycha]

excuse me? the HD format war is far from over dont proclaim something that simply isnt true

War is not over until one camp shows white flag. It's just that HD DVD has no chance.

Paramount ($150 M payed) -- you can't just pay your way to win format war. Consumers already choosing blu-ray. BLu-ray discs are selling better. With 40 gb PS3s in all regions -- forget about it.

Making money off game hardware and software is only -one- of the reasons Microsoft wants people to buy a 360. If Sony's plan with PS3 span "ten years", Microsoft's plan with getting a foothold in living room are even longer term. Good for them, they can afford to invest, make mistakes, learn and try again. But your comments about how Sony can afford to lose money as if Microsoft can’t, are plain silly and reek of excessive fanboyism.

"make mistakes, learn and try again" -- i'm going to cry now. 7 years for xbox project. 8 B losses. 2 quarters in green both only with Halo.
This is not an investment. Unless they can be profitable with 360 at least -- it's ain't no investment, but money burn.

 

[Gadfly]

War is not over until one camp shows white flag. It's just that HD DVD has no chance.

Paramount ($150 M payed) -- you can't just pay your way to win format war. Consumers already choosing blu-ray. BLu-ray discs are selling better. With 40 gb PS3s in all regions -- forget about it.




"make mistakes, learn and try again" -- i'm going to cry now. 7 years for xbox project. 8 B losses. 2 quarters in green both only with Halo.
This is not an investment. Unless they can be profitable with 360 at least -- it's ain't no investment, but money burn.

XBOX was not a mistake. They needed to get into this market even though they knew with off the shelf components that they don't build themselves, they are going to lose money.

But I am really done arguing with you. Go celebrate Sony's result or something.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

We are still going over this HD format wars crap?

The winner will be DVD, it will last for a few more years, and then the real successor to DVD will release. Or we'll go download centric. BD and HDDVD are stopgaps in the same way laserdisc was. They will always be niche.

You're not likely to see any HD format "win" until HDTV's are in over 50% of American homes. And we still got a ways to go before that happens.

 

[the_id]

can someone give me a summary especially with the situation of the PS3? i can't understand these sales threads.