Nintendo is not especially profitable for 3rd parties because for the most part 3rd parties don't put out much on the systems and when they do they put only minimal effort into the product.Wollan said:Nintendos numbers are definetly healthy but what we don't see on the Sony side is that the platform is healthy for the whole industry/3rd parties. I think that's the main difference between a Sony/Microsoft console and Nintendo. As it has been atleast.
bycha said:Code:Year Sony Nintendo Microsoft 1997 974,000,000 1998 1,130,000,000 629,000,000 1999 730,000,000 645,000,000 2000 -409,000,000 421,000,000 2001 623,000,000 726,000,000 2002 939,000,000 800,000,000 -750,000,000 2003 650,000,000 560,000,000 -1,191,000,000 2004 404,000,000 316,000,000 -1,215,000,000 2005 75,000,00 777,000,000 -485,000,000 2006 894,000,000 -1,262,000,000 Totals 5,116,000,000 5,768,000,000 -4,903,000,000
So we could all remember the name of the game. It's not for the love of interactive entertainment.
Microsoft Home & Entertainment through FY 2006 ended June 30 2006
Sony Game division through FY 2005 ended March 31 2006
Nintendo Overall through FY 2006 ended March 31 2006
The most pure videogame sector here is Sony's reports.
All Home & Entertainment divisions but Xbox is considered to be profitable. They also started losing money on Xbox before 2002 as it had to be R&D'ed and produced. Which is more than likely another billion or so.
Nintendo releases overall earnings reports stake in pokemon + currency investments + some other minor things.
Sony and Nintendo will soon release last quarter results.
Also try to google "loses".
Additions, suggestions and comments are welcome.
Cheebs said:N64 likely did better than Cube by a good amount but GBA did a lot better than GBC and GB(in its later years).
So I expect it to be around the pre-DS numbers.
Sgt. Killjoy said:Are there some numbers for Nintendo going back to the NES? That would be interesting to see.
echoshifting said:Seriously though...those MS numbers...that's amazing. When are they planning to have a profitable year, exactly?
Well they basically dropped the Xbox completely plus all their marketing costs from the launch plus the expense of having to air ship consoles for a few months.AniHawk said:I can't believe MS lost the most money they've ever lost in video games last year.
DCharlie said:for sony, some costs that are for games are not booked directly against the game section as of 2000.
Shin Johnpv said:I have to agree with this
I mean again I know you need to loose some money to break into an industry but how long will they continue to bleed billions of dollars
bycha said:Yeah, all the numbers but last year were collected by our best man sonycowboy and are from previous thread.
Well, several years ago they planned that Xbox won't be profitable until 2007. But now 2007 is expected to have loses as well. So, who knows... ) Seriously, 2008 and so on can be profitable. It's a question of how big share they want. I expect they want to at least double it, heading for 50 m sold lifetime for X360, so they may have loses after that, because of pricecuts and heavy marketing.
Like the storage units they have to pay monthly to hold all of their LIES and DECEIT?
AniHawk said:Like the storage units they have to pay monthly to hold all of their LIES and DECEIT?
mrklaw said:They may make a singular profit in 2008, but when would they expect the entire effort to break even? i.e. recoup all the previous 6 years losses.
cybamerc said:The problem with the M$ numbers is that H&E isn't just Xbox, it's also PC games and Mac software - both of which are profitable. Plus, over the years M$ has changed accounting practices so you don't have comparable numbers for all years.
Total Xbox losses are way higher than $5 billion.
Deku said:Well I was telling my friends in 2000 that the MS Xbox was a bad idea and they should try to get into the software business providings apps for the consoles.
I think the Xbox and 360 were Microsoft's answer to Sony's convergence vision (games, movie player, internet etc.) once the flavour of the month in high end tech changes and perhaps convergence is proven to be premature yet again, they may try a different strategy.
Microsoft's first entry into the games business was Windows95 and the Xbox line is just its most recent permutation.
I think 360 might be the last standalone MS home console. It's a bit early to say anything for certain, as PS3 and Wii have yet to hit the market, but I really don't think the gains MS will make this gen will make it worth it for them to stick around for a 3rd fight and as realities on the ground change, especially is the PS3 stumbles, MS might alter its strategy.
The irony here is, it will require a Sony weakness in the games business and or a refutation of the convergence vision Sony is going for, for MS to withdraw, not the other way around.
and I think that with project xbox, Ms has cannibalized Pc gmes section!bycha said:Yes i stated this. They are higher then $6 B and only MS knows how big they are.
No. You could argue that M$ could have released Halo, Project Gotham, Fable, the Rare titles and so forth exclusively for PC but the only reason why M$ bought those developers and games is Xbox.Il Comodino said:and I think that with project xbox, Ms has cannibalized Pc gmes section!
yes maybe you are righycybamerc said:No. You could argue that M$ could have released Halo, Project Gotham, Fable, the Rare titles and so forth exclusively for PC but the only reason why M$ bought those developers and games is Xbox.
PC games are profitable for M$ today but weren't always.
In general terms the market for PC games has been in decline for some time but you have PlayStation to thank for that.
Andokuky said:I didn't know Sony was that close to Nintendo, most gamers talk as if Nintendo is the only company out of the three that makes a penny of profit.
Deku said:The irony here is, it will require a Sony weakness in the games business and or a refutation of the convergence vision Sony is going for, for MS to withdraw, not the other way around.
cybamerc said:PC games are profitable for M$ today but weren't always.
In general terms the market for PC games has been in decline for some time but you have PlayStation to thank for that.
mrklaw said:They may make a singular profit in 2008, but when would they expect the entire effort to break even? i.e. recoup all the previous 6 years losses.
Year Sony Nintendo Microsoft
1997 974,000,000
1998 1,130,000,000 629,000,000
1999 730,000,000 645,000,000
2000 -409,000,000 421,000,000
2001 623,000,000 726,000,000
2002 939,000,000 800,000,000 -750,000,000
2003 650,000,000 560,000,000 -1,191,000,000
2004 404,000,000 316,000,000 -1,215,000,000
2005 75,000,00 777,000,000 -485,000,000
2006 894,000,000 -1,262,000,000
Totals 5,116,000,000 5,768,000,000 -4,903,000,000
PantherLotus said:I love how we all r00t for specific companies to be profitable in one thread, and then bitch when they make completely corporate bullshit decisions the next.
/off topic
Mooreberg said:If it seems like they are giving you a "good deal" now, it is so they can screw you later.
DCharlie said:is there any reason why Nintendo don't have any figures for 97?
Lapsed said:One thing I've been wondering is why would Microsoft be willing to lose billions on a video game console? People go into business to make money, not to lose it. Granted, there were many errors in how the original Xbox was made that insured it to be unprofitable, but why is Microsoft sticking with it?
With all the fierce Ipod competitors out there, why is Microsoft making the Zune to 'compete' in the portable music market? What in the world is Microsoft doing entering the portable music market anyway?
In the early 90s, a tsunami of the Internet being used for information changed the business landscape. Companies became rich just by processing or searching for information.
According to investors, we are on the verge of another tsunami. The Internet has so far been heavily used for information, not entertainment. The President of NCSoft says that whoever gets there first (of applying the Internet for entertainment) will become bigger than Google.
It appears that Microsoft is attempting to change itself into an entertainment company. The company must realize that the traditional cashcows of Windows and Office will not last forever as electronics and how we use them increasingly change. It has "invested" billions into the Xbox project, and bought various game companies.
I'm thinking the old Microsoft as we knew it, as a software oriented operating system company is over. As the Internet is used less for information and increasingly more for entertainment, Microsoft is trying to jump in before the tidal wave hits.
FitzOfRage said:I just checked it out, it was $564 million.
Though looking through it, the numbers he posted don't seem to quite match up with the current US dollar equivalents for what they reported in yen for the other years. So I'm not sure if he's going by the exchange rate at the time, or if he's using operating income over net income, or what.
Because they see consoles, more specifically PlayStation, as a threat to their business.Lapsed said:One thing I've been wondering is why would Microsoft be willing to lose billions on a video game console?
Mooreberg said:Things like Xbox, Windows Live, etc. are to hedge their bets incase a company like Google makes the idea of having applications installed locally become obsolete (people have been predicting things like this for ages, but it has not happened yet). If Xbox is still draining money like crazy at the end of the XB360 cycle than I imagine they'll try to partner up with a consumer electronics company (like Toshiba or Samsung) to put out a system where their tools are used for development and the Xbox Live service for online, but have the partner company handle the hardware decisions and worry about the loses in that regard.
cybamerc said:Because they see consoles, more specifically PlayStation, as a threat to their business.
D3VI0US said:The 360 will be profitable for MS at the end of this gen but the Xbox project in general will probably still be in the red.
because of the FY period i guessDCharlie said:is there any reason why Nintendo don't have any figures for 97?
Sony Game division through FY 2005 ended March 31 2006
Nintendo Overall through FY 2006 ended March 31 2006
Lapsed said:None of this explains why Microsoft is entering the portable music business though.
Ronok said:In 5 years Microsoft have lost more then Sony have made in 9.......... How on earth are they meant to make this money back? Considering they are going to lose more before 2008 and then probably again at the release of the next XBOX (if the trend continues) when are they expected to actually break even? 2020? Later maybe? This is assuming they manage to make the same levels of profit Nintendo and Sony are making......... That's a hell of a long wait to start making money.... 18 years for what? 500-600 million a year? Is it really worth it to Microsoft? :-/ Well I guess it is as they are willing to do it, but, it seems strange to wait so long. :-/
Mooreberg said:If the current PS3 pricing scheme blows up in Sony's face and Microsoft are able to take over North America and Europe, they'll be able to price systems so they are not sold for as much of a loss, and keep the the software prices high to accelerate how much money they make back.
Oh that one's easy. Apple did it. :lolLapsed said:None of this explains why Microsoft is entering the portable music business though.
sonycowboy said:More than Sony did with the PS2 with almost a 70% market share? :lol
They'll never, ever, ever make back what was lost (well over $6B and counting).
BTW,
Microsoft has combined thier reporting to 3 divisions (as of this fiscal year), so the Xbox division is going to be grouped with so much other stuff, we'll NEVER come close to knowing it's financials ever again.
I don't think anyone has ever really denied that Sony makes profit. The comments about Nintendo being extremely profitable usually stem from statements that they are going to go 3rd party.Andokuky said:I didn't know Sony was that close to Nintendo, most gamers talk as if Nintendo is the only company out of the three that makes a penny of profit.