les papillons sexuels
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1agrUM4KYs
I think this is a much better solution. Create a wireless armband that allows for people to push buttons though muscle feedback without the need to a physical device.
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Sony Patents Kinect-Like 3D Depth-Sensing Camera for PlayStation Consoles
- Thread starter DarkChild
- Start date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1agrUM4KYs
I think this is a much better solution. Create a wireless armband that allows for people to push buttons though muscle feedback without the need to a physical device.
Yes SONY, copy the Kinect and make it better and I'll be there day one.
Hey MS, I heard that SONY is going to 1up the Kinect. You'd better be prepared to nip that shit in the bud. If you do I'll be there day one.
Nintendo....you are Nintendo and since I need the next Mario "whatever" just make some Mario and I'll be there day one.
Even if none of this happened I'd be there day one for all of them because I'm a weak 'tomorrow chaser'.
Hey MS, I heard that SONY is going to 1up the Kinect. You'd better be prepared to nip that shit in the bud. If you do I'll be there day one.
Nintendo....you are Nintendo and since I need the next Mario "whatever" just make some Mario and I'll be there day one.
Even if none of this happened I'd be there day one for all of them because I'm a weak 'tomorrow chaser'.
I will stand at the door of the PC gaming clubhouse and slowly close and lock it just before the masses rushing towards the door get close enough to lodge their bodies in the crack and make it inside.
Sorry fellas, we are no longer hiring.
Stuggernaut
Grandma's Chippy
God I wish motion gaming would die
Haunted
Member
I know. Gosh darn it, $ony! First they copy wiimote and now kinect. How dare they copy kinect..;/
Sony's marketing team seem to have the same idea. It doesn't matter what this 'device' does, Sony will make sure it bombs.
although I agree about the Marketing team is horrible....I don't think the Move bombed. I believe they made a profit for each move controller sold...and there is also the camera, nav controller.
Last I heard I think they passed 10mill, for just the move controller.
FWIW, this is a refresh of a patent filed in 2003. Richard Marks has done research with 3D cameras for a lonnng time.
It's simply logical that when the cost/functionality trade-off makes sense, Sony will adopt it for a eyetoy/pseye iteration. I'm not sure this patent suggests anything new though.
It's simply logical that when the cost/functionality trade-off makes sense, Sony will adopt it for a eyetoy/pseye iteration. I'm not sure this patent suggests anything new though.
Alx
Member
I don't remember he ever worked with 3D cams... he made a presentation once about 3Dview when they wanted to make an offer for their products, but it was more a "show and tell" than research. As he said it himself, Sony didn't believe in 3D cams and chose physical motion controllers instead.
The tech is interesting, but I think it goes the opposite direction of what most are aiming for. Kinect is part of the "Natural User Interface" line of thought, and part of its success can be explained by its direct access : just wave at the screen or talk to it, and it works, without strapping yourself with sensors. Even if it is less precise, it is more convenient.
AdventureRacing
Member
This seems like an obvious step and one that will complement move. I'm interested to see what controlling methods MS include (besides kinect and the standard control).
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with so many different control methods all available day 1. I'm not sure how this will affect software sales.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with so many different control methods all available day 1. I'm not sure how this will affect software sales.
...after spending some time researching the tech
He undoubtedly 'worked' with and filed patents relating to 3D cameras around that time. This is just a refresh of this patent.Anyway, his issues with 3D cameras are that they aren't good enough yet, and don't offer a broad enough application space in games on their own to justify their (current) cost. When they're better (particularly framerate wise, which is a huge hobby-horse for Marks) and more cost-effective, I've no doubt Sony will hop on board. They'll be a commodity thing for this kind of application in due course, the hardware at least.
Byakuya769
Member
...after spending some time researching the tech
Anyway, his issues with 3D cameras are that they aren't good enough yet, and don't offer a broad enough application space in games on their own to justify their (current) cost. When they're better (particularly framerate wise, which is a huge hobby-horse for Marks) and more cost-effective, I've no doubt Sony will hop on board. They'll be a commodity thing for this kind of application in due course, the hardware at least.
Don't know, man. Alx underlined "worked" and used ellipses.
His research was around software applications of the tech and processing of data from such cameras. How long for, I have no idea, but evidence of that work is pretty plentiful in his patent filings (including the one linked in the last post). I don't know what you constitute as working with a technology, but he did enough to generate some patents out of it
Dunno what Sony's hardware interest, if any, in depth sensors is though. But if SCE needed the tech they'd get it from somewhere, not necessarily Sony. IIRC neither eyetoy nor pseye's sensors were Sony.
Byakuya769
Member
Nah, they're stuck on the Avatar tablet 1991 style.
OMG Sony is such a copier! Next they'll put vibration in their controller!
I have hope that Kaz will turn the company around, but yeah since the Discman, they've been behind.
I have hope that Kaz will turn the company around, but yeah since the Discman, they've been behind.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
that crazy ken. he actually managed to create ps4/4d in his office, that's how he time-travelled and created all these patents after seeing what nintendo and ms were doing!
Don't forget fan reception.
When sony introduced eyetoy and voice commands on the ps2 and eyedentify on the ps3 gamers yelled booo
when primesense was at ces showing their tech on pc games gamers said meh
then natal's vision video dropped and the crowed goes wild in excitement.
The one feature I'm waiting for, and I keep saying it, is when ms introduces a game that allows kinect to recognize a 360 controller being thrust forward/backward/eft/right by the gamers motion people will ask why sony can't innovate like that.
Kenshin001
Member
Yeah, would be great if MS innovated with Sixaxis.
This.. its why all sony press and gamer conferences are as exciting as a board room meeting about new letterhead proposal decks.
sony actually does innovate and spends alot of money on R&D. The problem is that the fucks in charge do not fully commit to anything whatsoever.
I mean look at this shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAS55_RngoQ
Do you know how much awesome is it to have this in the medical field especially surgery and endoscopy? Morons the whole lot. I feel for the engineers really. They deserve much better
Zoramon089
Banned
How is this a better solution...it would offer no advantage over a physical device. I see the use when your hands are occupied but if you're playing a game I'd assume your full attention is on it
and move/wiimote all are lacking because they are trying to do it all but it needs to be incorporated. Sony made all that fuss about the pseye having a 4way array mic and did nothing with it. socom voice commands? dropped, sixaxis? all but forgotten.
What sony needs is a team of individuals to read forums like neogaf and see what we really think and take it back to their execs and devs and engineers.
Its obvious by the recent socom games that sony doesn't listen to its customers/fans.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Don't forget their ps eye face recognition possibilities back in 2006
http://youtu.be/58hfb9ZxzK8
http://youtu.be/58hfb9ZxzK8
Its going to be funny to see augmented reality take off after sony dropped support for games like eye of judgment too
Byakuya769
Member
Because that mic was godawful. I took the bait and regretted it.
Kenshin001
Member
Haha. Awesome. You learn something new every day. Wonder why they never pushed the tech? Maybe they realized it wasn't that great.
Agent X
Member
It looks like they're giving augmented reality games another whirl with the PS Vita. The Vita is in a better position to support these types of games, since the system has cameras built in and they're including the AR cards in the box.
AranhaHunter
Banned
I always thought the PS4 would possibly ship with an Eyetoy 3 that's at least as good as the current kinect and with that break apart controller that would be the successor of the DS and would turn into a move.
I also think PS4 will be retroactive with current PS3 controllers and move
I also think PS4 will be retroactive with current PS3 controllers and move
Dreamcast says hi.
Byakuya769
Member
Wow. What were they thinking?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Sony's innovative edge will make this work!
Alx
Member
His research was around software applications of the tech and processing of data from such cameras. How long for, I have no idea, but evidence of that work is pretty plentiful in his patent filings (including the one linked in the last post). I don't know what you constitute as working with a technology, but he did enough to generate some patents out of it
You don't need to have worked in a field to file a patent, the only thing you're protecting is an idea, it can be only paperware. For example, Sony filed a patent about a device sending sensory data directly into the brain through ultrasounds, without having ever worked on it, it was just a random idea that they thought worth protecting :
Many companies don't file patents on something they invented, but on something they intend to work on (when they're not just doing it just in case someone else does), because if they can't protect it, it's not even worth starting researching it.
graywolf323
Member
Dr Richard Marks is quite frankly a genius IMO so I look forward to see what he comes up with
yes but the people who like to troll and claim Sony just copies everything will just ignore that
yes but the people who like to troll and claim Sony just copies everything will just ignore that
...after spending some time researching the tech
Anyway, his issues with 3D cameras are that they aren't good enough yet, and don't offer a broad enough application space in games on their own to justify their (current) cost. When they're better (particularly framerate wise, which is a huge hobby-horse for Marks) and more cost-effective, I've no doubt Sony will hop on board. They'll be a commodity thing for this kind of application in due course, the hardware at least.
Thanks for bringing up this old patent as I was about to run an article about it claiming it was something new
By the way, I think many are missing the point of this patent, or rather what it's actually patented here.
I've read the whole thing and it's more like an indication of how a depth camera can improve the augmented reality thing.
The patent, in fact, doesn't focus on user interaction a la Kinect (albeit it's mentioned as a possible application), but more on what might be an evolution of the current AR tech as seen in games such as Start The Party.
It basically postulates that thanks to depth data, virtual objects can actually be rendered "within" the real 3D space rather than simply applied over it. Virtual stuff could move behind real objects and even cast shadows on them realistically. Users can be dressed with virtual clothes and stuff like that. This is basically EyeToy 3 more than a Kinect 2. If you get what I mean. And besides, this stuff could theoretically be done with the current Kinect tech already.
Honestly, I don't really give a shit about this stuff because I believe AR is as cool as a tech as its possible applications are conceptually "meh". Especially if the point is to create a virtual world around your real self rather than "virtualizing" yourself within a virtual word on the screen which you can actually explore (like Kinect does). I mean, what's more immersive? Interacting with a virtual dragon in your living room (facing the screen rather than the dragon, no less - meh, talk about disconnection) or be actually into Skyrim?
Richard should really let the idea of bringing stuff out of the screen die and focus on how to put you into the screen.
bigtroyjon
Member
Thanks for bringing up this old patent as I was about to run an article about it claiming it was something new
By the way, I think many are missing the point of this patent, or rather what it's actually patented here.
I've read the whole thing and it's more like an indication of how a depth camera can improve the augmented reality thing.
The patent, in fact, doesn't focus on user interaction a la Kinect, but more on what might be an evolution of the current AR tech as seen in games such as Start The Party.
It basically postulates that thanks to depth data, virtual objects can actually be rendered "within" the real 3D space rather than simply applied over it. Virtual stuff could move behind real objects and even cast shadows on them realistically. Users can be dressed with virtual clothes and stuff like that. This is basically EyeToy 3 more than a Kinect 2. If you get what I mean. And besides, this stuff could theoretically be done with the current Kinect tech already.
Double Fine has already done this using Kinect, with Happy Action Theater.
staticneuron
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYHr0I-iFHE
I don't believe sony didn't told him what they believed, it is his job to research this and tell "them" if it is worth or not.
painful fart
Member
So they are refreshing a patent from 2003. Who exactly are they copying this time?
Just to get your line of thoughts?
Alx
Member
Like he says himself at the beginning of the video, it is the 3DV (not 3DView, my bad) presentation I was talking about, and he says that he only spent a few days at 3DV to toy with the demos... So yeah you could say he worked on it, but apart from those few days there is no sign of a big activity on the subject, it's more technical intelligence.
Which is fine and indeed it's his job to do it, but you can't pretend he's an expert in everything he laid his hands on.
When I said "Sony didn't believe in 3D cams and chose physical motion controllers instead" I didn't imply that the decision was forced on him. If anything, since he's in charge, maybe I should have said "Marks didn't believe in 3D cams...", except that I'm not 100% sure that the decision was his.
Anyway that's fine too, sometimes you have to make a choice, you can't bet on everything. And Move was a rather sensible choice, one that many gamers here will support rather than kinect-like systems.