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[greatestjediever]

So they agree to reveal third party private information just to check if they can save Sony some time and money? Sounds really dubious.

I'm not so sure if it's main purpose is to save Sony time and money, though that may be a consequence. I think it's more to make it as difficult as possible for geohot to defend himself. He doesn't live in California, would have to be present for hearings and such to adequately defend himself. That means lost time in wages (if he works for anyone) and lost money in airfare, living accomodations and the like. If you're not wealthy, it could be a big financial burden.

 

[obonicus]

EFF have posted a letter to the judge against this subpoena - more at groklaw:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110305201445121

Interesting development that they have gotten involved now.

EDIt:

Groklaw's contradicting itself; in earlier posts on the issue they explained that the reason Sony wants to go to California is that they're more likely to win a DMCA case there. Now they're asking 'well, why doesn't Sony sue them elsewhere?' when they already told us why.

 

[Link1110]

Groklaw seems to contradict the facts as well. They seem convinced Sony is gonna mass sue despite protective orders making that not true.

 

[Chrange]

Groklaw seems to contradict the facts as well. They seem convinced Sony is gonna mass sue despite protective orders making that not true.

The only thing preventing them from suing en masses is the removal of those protective orders. Seeing how easily the denial of access to IP info was overturned, I don't think that's outside the realm of possible future actions.

 

[Zoe]

The only thing preventing them from suing en masses is the removal of those protective orders. Seeing how easily the denial of access to IP info was overturned, I don't think that's outside the realm of possible future actions.

The fact that the protective orders are there is the only reason the subpoenas were granted. This isn't overturning the previous decision--the scope was amended until it was acceptable to the judge and the defendants.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJvTMZe0yI0&feature=feedu

The guy is a tool and annoying to watch, but anyone know if he is right? Has geohot "fled" to South America or could he simply be on vacation or something? I doubt there is a restriction on travel for a civil court case. Some other interesting stuff in there, like tampering with the hard drives he had to turn over. If true, he isn't doing himself any favors.

 

[snap0212]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJvTMZe0yI0&feature=feedu

The guy is a tool and annoying to watch, but anyone know if he is right? Has geohot "fled" to South America or could he simply be on vacation or something? I doubt there is a restriction on travel for a civil court case. Some other interesting stuff in there, like tampering with the hard drives he had to turn over. If true, he isn't doing himself any favors.

I'm 100% sure that the hard drive thing is nonsense. He had the hard drives for a long time before he was asked to turn them in. He did not mess with evidence if they cannot prove that he manipulated the hard drives after they became evidence (pretty much impossible if GeoHot is smarter than a stone).

 

[Cheerilee]

The guy's spewing shit left and right. I don't even care to do a simple Google search to see if he's on to anything.

 

[Audioboxer]

After the judge demanded George Hotz gives in his devices and hard drives, the PlayStation 3 hacker ran away to South America to avoid handing his possessions in and now has put his case in extreme jeopardy. The hacker also lied about having a PlayStation Network account. GeoHot has finally been caught out.

A file from the Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC v. Hotz case recently detailed Hot’z recent actions. It said:

Though the evidence establishing personal jurisdiction is already overwhelming, SCEA has little doubt that there is much more. However, over the last several weeks. Hotz has engaged in a campaign to thwart jurisdictional discovery at every turn –regardless of whether the Court has ordered such discovery or not. Most seriously, after Magistrate Judge Spero ordered an inspection of Hotz’s devices and ordered Hotz to appear at a deposition in California, SCEA learned that Hotz had deliberately removed integral components of his impounded hard drives prior to delivering them to a third party neutral and that Hotz is now in South America, an excuse for why he will not immediately provide the components of his hard drives as requested by the neutral. Hotz’s attempts to dodge this Court’s authority raise very serious questions.

The hacker also lied about having a PSN account:

On January 12, 2011, Hotz submitted a declaration to the Court (Docket No. 19-1) in which he made unequivocal statements on a number of topics. However, when it came to discussing the PSN account, Hotz equivocated, stating: “To the best of my knowledge and belief, I do not have a PlayStation Network account.” Hotz also provided interrogatory responses that he has refused to verify, stating that he has not accessed the PSN. Bricker Decl. ¶4.Hotz identified four PS3 Systems in his possession. Bricker Decl., ¶4, Exh. C. He explained that he had purchased one of these consoles new in February 2010 and provided the serial number for that console. Id. SCEA used that serial number to determine that on February 25, 2010, Hotz purchased the PS3 System at a Gamestop store just miles from his home. Law Decl., ¶6; Bricker Decl., ¶6, Exh. E. SCEA’s records show that the same PS3 System was used on March 10, 2010 to create a PSN account under the user name “blickmanic.” Law Decl., ¶6, Exh. A. The IP address associated with the registration is located in Glen Rock, New Jersey, where Hotz lives.

Then, more evidence regarding his PSN account was discovered:

Hotz’s ownership of the “blickmanic” account is further supported by the fact that an Internet search of the user name “blickmanic” reveals a posting discussing the jailbreaking of cellular phones – Hotz’s original “claim to fame.” Bricker Decl., ¶7, Exh. F (“Just curious what people would pay for exclusive rights to this solution. [Motorola] Tracfone W175g unlocked and debranded. PM me.”) As discussed above, to create his PSN account, Hotz was required to first agree to the terms of the PSN User Agreement and thus he is clearly subject to personal jurisdiction in California. It is well established that a valid and enforceable forum selection clause operates as consent to personal jurisdiction in a designated forum.

Sony continued that even without his PSN account breach evidence, they already have enough evidence against him:

Although Hotz’s PSN account registration clearly establishes jurisdiction, even without it, SCEA has shown the necessary minimum contacts between Hotz and California.

Oh, boy; it’s going off big now.

Source: http://vghq.net/2011/03/23/george-hotz-runs-away-to-south-america-lies-about-having-psn-account/

 

[subversus]

hahahaha, LIKE A NAZI CRIMINAL.


that's where your money went guys. Right now Hotz is lying on the beach and strokes some hot brazilian ass.

 

[test_account]

How reliable is the source that Geohot has traveled to South America?

 

[Oni Jazar]

hahahaha, LIKE A NAZI CRIMINAL.


that's where your money went guys. Right now Hotz is lying on the beach and strokes some hot brazilian ass.

That would be pretty f-ed up.

 

[Canova]

hahahaha. what a dumb fuck.

the idiot actually tampered with the evidence, now he's actually committed a serious crime.

IDIOTA

 

[NHale]

hahahaha, LIKE A NAZI CRIMINAL.


that's where your money went guys. Right now Hotz is lying on the beach and strokes some hot brazilian ass.

Now I'm waiting for the rap about the people that donated money.

 

[Totobeni]

Seems like he used the donates money to run to south america.

 

[angelfly]

Wow, that was unexpected. Looks like this case is now (unfortunately) heading to a win for Sony.

 

[Curufinwe]

If this is true, it's hilarious, and hopefully it will get the retards on the Buzz Out Loud podcast to stop defending geohot like he was Ghandi. They even claimed he was unable to speak in his own defense, apparently oblivious to his rap video.

 

[hamchan]

Seems like he used the donates money to run to south america.

I would find this quite sad yet also hilarious.

 

[borghe]

so you guys seriously just funded his vacation to south america?????

WHERE IS YOUR HERO NOW!!!?!?!?!

this guy is as piece of shit as they come. despite what you may or may not believe about piracy, copyright law, fair use, etc... clearly this guy just went to south america on everyone who donated's dime. in the middle of his trial. and, and did a bunch of lying under oath and probably tampered with evidence after it was asked for.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

hahahaha. what a dumb fuck.

the idiot actually tampered with the evidence, now he's actually committed a serious crime.

IDIOTA

Yeah, you tamper with evidence and you will get sanctioned to hell and in case people are wondering thats not just a fine. It also effects evidence. Essentially Hotz gave Sony the best gift they could hope for if the filing is accurate.

 

[Cheerilee]

hahahaha. what a dumb fuck.

the idiot actually tampered with the evidence, now he's actually committed a serious crime.

IDIOTA

If it was a serious crime to leave the country, SCEA wouldn't refer to it as a "serious question."

 

[Jenga]

lolol

 

[angelfly]

Yeah, you tamper with evidence and you will get sanctioned to hell and in case people are wondering thats not just a fine. It also effects evidence. Essentially Hotz gave Sony the best gift they could hope for if the filing is accurate.

Pretty much just killed any chance of him winning.

 

[Acquiescence]

Hells bells, this is hilarious. It practically deserves its own thread.

For all you folks who donated money to his cause - it was well spent, right? No really, GeoHot is very thankful to all of you who supplied funds for his...SPRING BREAK!!! WHOOOO!

 

[Canova]

If it was a serious crime to leave the country, SCEA wouldn't refer to it as a "serious question."

his crime is that he tampered with evidence, we're talking about jail term now

Most seriously, after Magistrate Judge Spero ordered an inspection of Hotz’s devices and ordered Hotz to appear at a deposition in California, SCEA learned that Hotz had deliberately removed integral components of his impounded hard drives prior to delivering them to a third party neutral

 

[Suairyu]

Well this is distressing. With a strong enough case he might have changed things for the better via legal precedent.

 

[Jenga]

this dude is living it up in to Tijuana or something


all thanks to the generous donations of GAF and the internet

 

[snap0212]

hahahaha. what a dumb fuck.

the idiot actually tampered with the evidence, now he's actually committed a serious crime.

IDIOTA

Yeah, you tamper with evidence and you will get sanctioned to hell and in case people are wondering thats not just a fine. It also effects evidence. Essentially Hotz gave Sony the best gift they could hope for if the filing is accurate.

Source for the fact that he manipulated the hard drives after they became evidence and not before (when he was legally allowed to manipulate them however he wants).

If you don't have actual proof, you have nothing.

 

[Loudninja]

Lets not jump to conclusions is there any other source for this?

 

[newjeruse]

How's the Peruvian hip hop scene? Maybe he's just on tour.

 

[Curufinwe]

Lets not jump to conclusions is there any other source for this?

This is the only source.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...ifornia/candce/3:2011cv00167/235965/103/0.pdf

 

[angelfly]

Source for the fact that he manipulated the hard drives after they became evidence and not before (when he was legally allowed to manipulate them however he wants).

If you don't have actual proof, you have nothing.

From the court filing

Most seriously, after Magistrate Judge Spero ordered an inspection of Hotz’s devices and ordered Hotz to appear at a deposition in California, SCEA learned that Hotz had deliberately removed integral components of his impounded hard drives prior to delivering them to a third party neutral and that Hotz is now in South America, an excuse for why he will not immediately provide the components of his hard drives as requested by the neutral.

 

[borghe]

Source for the fact that he manipulated the hard drives after they became evidence and not before (when he was legally allowed to manipulate them however he wants).

If you don't have actual proof, you have nothing.

sigh.... what is being stated from the looks of it, is that they DO have proof that he tampered with the drives AFTER we was asked to surrender them. Are you not getting that?

I mean seriously, if there is one modified date, or sector changed with a timestamp after he was asked to provide them, it doesn't even matter WHAT WAS THERE.. I mean shit, he could have deleted kiddie porn that was in those folders.. but just the fact that he modified the contents of the drive after he was asked to surrender them is tampering with evidence.

but the guy isn't a moron (clearly). My guess is whatever he deleted from them is far far far worse than what sony is suing him on. there would be no other reason for a reasonably intelligent individual to do something like that.

 

[snap0212]

From the court filing

Yeah, that's prove that the hard drives were manipulated before he turned them in. Where's proof that he did not manipulate them before they ordered him to turn them in. I don't think there's a law that forces you to take care of your belongings in case they become evidence at some point in the future.

sigh.... what is being stated from the looks of it, is that they DO have proof that he tampered with the drives AFTER we was asked to surrender them. Are you not getting that?

No, what is being stated is that he "removed integral components". They can not even check the data on the hard drive. If they could, they may be able to prove anything. They have to prove that he "removed integral components" in the time between the date when they asked him to turn the hard drive in and the date he turned them in.

 

[Cheerilee]

his crime is that he tampered with evidence, we're talking about jail term now

It might depend on how tampered the drives are. I mean, they supposedly asked if he could mail them whatever parts, and he said "Oh, sorry I can't mail them right now, I'm in Tijuana."

Why would they ask for the parts if their absence made a slam-dunk?

 

[hirokazu]

sigh.... what is being stated from the looks of it, is that they DO have proof that he tampered with the drives AFTER we was asked to surrender them. Are you not getting that?

I mean seriously, if there is one modified date, or sector changed with a timestamp after he was asked to provide them, it doesn't even matter WHAT WAS THERE.. I mean shit, he could have deleted kiddie porn that was in those folders.. but just the fact that he modified the contents of the drive after he was asked to surrender them is tampering with evidence.

but the guy isn't a moron (clearly). My guess is whatever he deleted from them is far far far worse than what sony is suing him on. there would be no other reason for a reasonably intelligent individual to do something like that.

Why does the filing make it sound like he removed a hardware component of the hard drives?

 

[asdad123]

I wanna just go to this kids house and laugh at him if he ever comes back from south america lol. I live 5 minutes away from him

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It might depend on how tampered the drives are. I mean, they supposedly asked if he could mail them whatever parts, and he said "Oh, sorry I can't mail them right now, I'm in Tijuana."

Why would they ask for the parts if their absence made a slam-dunk?

To establish an evidentary history.

 

[Curufinwe]

When Sony say "prior to delivering them to a third party neutral", it's implicit that they are also saying it was after the lawsuit was filed or at least after geohot should have realized a lawsuit would be filed.

In other words, even before your company serves, or is served with, a summons and complaint, a legal duty arises to preserve documents and data if they are relevant to a lawsuit that you reasonably anticipate will be filed in the future. See, e.g., Zubulake v. UBS Warburg, LLC, 220 F.R.D. 212, 217 (S.D.N.Y. 2003) (Zubulake IV); Shamis v. Ambassador Factors Corp., 34 F.Supp. 2d 879, 889 (S.D.N.Y. 1999).

http://www.poynerspruill.com/publications/Pages/TheDutytoPreserveElectronicEvidence.aspx

Preserving information relevant to a pending lawsuit is important for many reasons, but a reason that should get your particular attention is this: If your company fails to preserve evidence after litigation is reasonably anticipated, this failure can lead to serious punitive consequences for evidence “spoliation”—i.e., the negligent or intentional destruction or alteration of evidence. Silvestri v. General Motors Corp., 271 F.3d 583, 590 (4th Cir. 2001).

These consequences can include: monetary sanctions, awards of attorneys fees and costs for the price of investigating and litigating document destruction, and litigation consequences such as default judgments, dismissal of certain claims or defenses, or court instructions allowing a jury to draw adverse inferences about what destroyed evidence would have shown. See, e.g., Arista Records, LLC v. Tschirhart, 2006 WL 2728927 (W.D. Tex. 2006) (imposing a default judgment on defendant after finding that defendant used “wiping” software to erase data); Nursing Home Pension Fund v. Oracle Corp., 2008 WL 4093497 (N.D. Cal. 2008) (sanctioning defendant with adverse inference at trial); Great Am. Ins. Co. of N.Y. v. Lowry Dev., LLC, 2007 WL 4268776 (S.D. Miss. 2007) (reducing the plaintiff’s burden of proof as spoliation sanction against defendant).

 

[Zoe]

Why does the filing make it sound like he removed a hardware component of the hard drives?

"Components" doesn't automatically mean hardware.

 

[Evlar]

That court filing makes it sound like he removed one or more of the platters...

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Can someone paste in Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 37? Its the rule on point to spoilation of evidence.

 

[hirokazu]

"Components" doesn't automatically mean hardware.

Well I certainly wouldn't consider any data stored on storage media as a component of the media, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Agkel]

 

[angelfly]

Yeah, that's prove that the hard drives were manipulated before he turned them in. Where's proof that he did not manipulate them before they ordered him to turn them in. I don't think there's a law that forces you to take care of your belongings in case they become evidence at some point in the future.No, what is being stated is that he "removed integral components". They can not even check the data on the hard drive. If they could, they may be able to prove anything. They have to prove that he "removed integral components" in the time between the date when they asked him to turn the hard drive in and the date he turned them in.

I'm sure forensics on the drive can determine when the data was removed. Also considering it's something they're asking to be put back it sounds like he deleted some source files needed to compile something related to bypassing DRM or something like that. They must think whatever it is he has multiple copies of it.

 

[pahamrick]

While the timeline of when the hard drives were tampered with is debatable, it doesn't change how damning it is that they were tampered with.

 

[DonMigs85]

If only Hotz had been more humble and kept his big mouth shut... Typical cocky douche.
I wonder if Mama Robotnik and the other saps regret their donations now.

 

[borghe]

No, what is being stated is that he "removed integral components". They can not even check the data on the hard drive. If they could, they may be able to prove anything. They have to prove that he "removed integral components" in the time between the date when they asked him to turn the hard drive in and the date he turned them in.

as mentioned, in such a case "components" do not necessarily mean hardware. It also does not say they can't check the data. on the contrary it explicitly states that the modifications we are talking about (whether hardware or software), Sony learned that those modifications took place AFTER the drives were requested. This seems to be the part you aren't following. So sony, it would seem, has proof to some degree that this stuff happened after the request.

And again, the important thing here is that they were modified. It doesn't matter what was modified, etc. The simple fact that they were modified under general civil law can lead to increased punitive damages, default judgments, awards for extra fees, etc.

so the point being if sony has proof that the modifications took place AFTER the request, regardless of what the modifications were... if that proof holds up in court then he is pretty much fucked.

edit - beaten like a bad dog... sigh.. yes, if there is determined to be spoilation of evidence, which it sounds like sony is saying they have proof of... he just tanked his case. but as I said previously, my guess is whatever the "spoliation" was, was drastically worse than what he's facing right now.

"oh hey, we were looking through this hard drive and just happened to find these 50,000 songs from Sony Music illegal downloaded to his hard drive!!! How much is that at $10,000 per incident?"

 

[angelfly]

If only Hotz had been more humble and kept his big mouth shut... Typical cocky douche.
I wonder if Mama Robotnik and the other saps regret their donations now.

Considering he lied from the start and put the case in jeopardy knowingly I regret mine.

 

[Duke Togo]

Lets dig up those passionately defensive posts about why donating to this shithead's cause was a good idea. I could use a good laugh before work.