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[DatDude]

I have a few questions:

What makes Elizabeth so special? Why can she open tears?

During the transfer her pinky was severed. This piece remained inbetween 2 worlds, booker's universe and comstock's universe. Thus, giving her the ability to open tears.

How did Columbia come to be? Or is this one we are letting slide just because?

Columbia came to be because Comstock was able to use a plethora of references to other alternate universe cities..in this case, Rapture.

The song bird for instance was stolen from the concept of the Big Daddy.

An many of Columbia architectural complexities could be easier simplified by simply looking at how other cities were built...so he basically stole architectural/mechanic ideas from other cities.

 

[DatDude]

Elizabeth dies at the end, or no longer exists. All that exists is Ana.

Marvelous game, that bit left a bit of a sour taste as you get so attached to her character to see her erased kinda sucked.

You do realize that Elizabeth is Anna right?

That specific Universe of Comstock and Elizabeth and Columbia are non exsistant, sure. But the game implies that everything was reset to a point where Booker never sells Anna, thus breaking the loop.

Thus it's kind of a happy ending.

 

[batbeg]

Columbia came to be because Comstock was able to use a plethora of references to other alternate universe cities..in this case, Rapture.

The song bird for instance was stolen from the concept of the Big Daddy.

An many of Columbia architectural complexities could be easier simplified by simply looking at how other cities were built...so he basically stole architectural/mechanic ideas from other cities.

Pretty sure that Columbia was created by Lutece creating her whatever-crazy-flying particles before she started looking into alternate realities.

 

[Riposte]

Wait, I don't quite understand how there is a "loop". As far as I can tell something bad happens at the end (New York City is attacked) and Booker is used to fix it.

 

[DatDude]

Wait, I don't quite understand how there is a "loop". As far as I can tell something bad happens at the end (New York City is attacked) and Booker is used to fix it.

The scene after the credits basically implies that either Booker is in a loop, or is reset. He never actually see's Anna in the crib, so it could be interpreted as another booker from another time line set to make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[MormaPope]

Some dude asked me for narratives I liked. Listed them. I actually avoided the question the first time explicitly to sidestep this kind of anti-intellectual response. But he called me out and asked a second time, so I obliged.

And I'm glad you did. Now what I don't get is most of those videogame stories you listed can fall in the same lines of criticism you're applying to Infinite, yet you are being much harsher towards Infinite's narrative and plot. What's surprising is you found Bioshock's 1 story engaging or entertaining.

Bioshock 1 had excellent atmosphere and a really intricate, well developed environment. But the story and plot were the weakest elements of Bioshock 1, the starting of an uprising was based on total religious intolerance, bibles couldn't be traded or sold.

And then when a magical juice called ADAM was created, people became literal junkies to the powers ADAM could give them. After a major part of society became junkies, that civilization couldn't sustain itself.

Then there's the illegitimate son/science baby of Andrew Ryan, Jack. Ryan's rival with business and popular influence, Fontaine, made Ryan's kid rapidly age with science and then brainwashed him so that one phrase can directly influence his actions.

After those revealings, you then do nothing for an hour, become a Big Daddy, and then bumrush super saiyan Fontaine and either become aqua Hitler or save every little girl that was a juice extractor. What's even funnier is what did Jack do with the Big Daddy features that got implanted? He had his vocal chords changed so he would mimic a Big Daddy's booming voice, amongst other things.

So Jack goes to the surface with all the children as a freak of nature, and then lives for several decades as a freak. Then on his death bed, a now grown posse of women go to his death bed and thank him for not magically killing them and getting an ADAM leach.

That's a better plot or story compared to Infinite? To me Infinite proved that the story could stand together with great gameplay and excellent atmosphere, whereas Bioshock's weak story was carried by the gameplay and atmosphere.

The fact that you hold narratives highly, yet place Bioshock 1 above Infinite in that regard is weird. And Infinite shares many of Bioshock 1 oddities, no doubting that, but that makes your dismissive nature over Infinite's narrative even weirder.

 

[NotUS]

You do realize that Elizabeth is Anna right?

That specific Universe of Comstock and Elizabeth and Columbia are non exsistant, sure. But the game implies that everything was reset to a point where Booker never sells Anna, thus breaking the loop.

Thus it's kind of a happy ending.

But that's the thing, she is not Elizabeth, she is Ana, different person, different personality through different experiences. Same way Booker and DeWitt are the same person yet vastly different.

It's not a happy ending, its a bitter sweet ending.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I looked at the ending again...

When all the Elizabeth are disappearing one by one, the screen cuts to black before our Liz (the one we played the game with) fades away.

They probably wont use this - as I feel any DLC will not be based on "Our Liz" or "Our Booker" - but I think it is significant.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

But that's the thing, she is not Elizabeth, she is Ana, different person, different personality through different experiences. Same way Booker and DeWitt are the same person yet vastly different.

It's not a happy ending, its a bitter sweet ending.

Unless some echo of these events is left imprinted on both individuals. Booker wakes up and seems very concerned, implying that perhaps some part of him remembers. Maybe Anna grows up and she and Booker move to Paris. I could believe that.

 

[MormaPope]

I looked at the ending again...

When all the Elizabeth are disappearing one by one, the screen cuts to black before our Liz (the one we played the game with) fades away.

They probably wont use this - as I feel any DLC will not be based on "Our Liz" or "Our Booker" - but I think it is significant.

It's implied she does, when each one disappears a musical note is played, and when it cuts to black one more note is played, right as it reaches our Elizabeth.

 

[greycolumbus]

I have a few questions:

What makes Elizabeth so special? Why can she open tears? I understand why Lutece and Lutece can warp around, but what's up with Liz? And how do the Luteces pull Booker through to start the game if they are unable to open tears?

The game implies Anna's encounter with the tear which cut off her little finger gave her the ability to open them. Also, was it implied that the Luteces couldn't open tears? I thought their spacejumping functioned the same way.

How did Columbia come to be? Or is this one we are letting slide just because? Was it pioneered by Comstock? And if so -- what happened to Booker-Booker that caused such a huge reversal of fortune? I know he's depressed and all that, but Comstock's place implies he started out with a whole lot. Where's Booker's lot?

The Luteces discovered particles that could suspend a city. I don't think Booker Prime had much fortune to begin with and the fortune that helped build Columbia was probably established after the fact. I could be wrong though.

Are we assuming the tears are simply present in this world, or that they are a result of Lutece's machine?

I think the latter is the safest assumption.

Why are the Luteces stuck in the loop if they are free to move throughout possibilities? Why don't they just leave Booker's story?

I don't think they were stuck as much as Booker was. To my knowledge, Robert Lutece wanted to correct everything and seek revenge, so the two set the events of the game in motion. Though I suppose that would essentially undo their "displacement" in space and time since the machine was never tampered with.

Right before Liz drowns Booker, there is an exchange about "things being set in motion/how do you know how far back to go [to break the chain]." She then almost immediately kills him. Can we assume she has some kind of priveleged knowledge about the precise time to stop things? Or is this more a case of avoiding the paradox of a man killing his past self?

Well that point is considered where Booker was reborn as Comstock, so it would be the ideal place to go to.

 

[DatDude]

The fact that you hold narratives highly, yet place Bioshock 1 above Infinite in that regard is weird. And Infinite shares many of Bioshock 1 oddities, no doubting that, but that makes your dismissive nature over Infinite's narrative even weirder.

SOOOOO much THIS.

He could just simply say Infinite wasn't his personal taste. An that would be fine.

But no, he's says that Infinite narrative is awful. Awful. An yet, lists Bioshock as a better narrative (and I'm assuming simply because he liked that the civil war, and ideology of why the civil war began was tied into the main narrative).

But than what about the sloppy 3/4 part of the game where the narrative just falls of a cliff?

I mean, I don't know..I don't really care anymore I think. But he's just coming off sooo much as someone like this:

 

[PaulloDEC]

Elizabeth dies at the end, or no longer exists. All that exists is Ana.

Marvelous game, that bit left a bit of a sour taste as you get so attached to her character to see her erased kinda sucked.

I was actually much sadder for Booker than Elizabeth. For most of the game it seems like Elizabeth is more deserving of our pity, but by the end I felt like their positions had completely flipped. Now Elizabeth was the confident one in control of events and Booker was revealed as a sad, broken man being used by others as he had been his entire life.

 

[disappeared]

I just can't help but feel defeated by watching eight iterations of your daughter looking at you with a collectively sad expression, then proceeding to drown you.

That scene is locked in my skull.

 

[EatChildren]

Okay, really, really quick and dirty hijack of The One Who Knocks' timeline altered with a shift in perspective. And lacking a bunch of data because I'll make a better one when I have more time. And with a bad choice of yellow because I'm a fool, and not at my own home with Photoshop. Paint 4 lyf.

I've left out the specific history details (eg: Comstock founding Columbia, etc), and excluded the part with the gunsmith (I don't feel it's overly essential to understand perspective, but more exposition of the tear concept), focusing more on the timelines themselves.

The main reason I re-arranged it is to focus on perspective. Considering we're dealing with quantum multiverse philosophy, understanding Booker's perspective in the game, the only one that matters to the player, is quite important. It stems from theories of quantum immortality. No matter how many timelines or universes there are. No matter how many variables. You will only ever be able to see from your own: a sequence of events and patterns interconnected. And I mean that literally. We as human beings in this world will only ever perceive the flow of time and the universe itself within the time we are alive. We cannot perceive before. And we will not perceive other. The universe only exists as long as we exist, after which we and time itself become nothing, and cease to have ever existed before. Literal nothingness, no time nor space, was before the Big Bang. And should our universe collapse, or bounce, so too will all time and space of this existence become nothingness. No trace left behind. No memory, no history. Time itself having never existed at all. Yet here we are, in the now, real and perceiving it.

As was said earlier by others and more eloquently, what it means to "be" and perceive time and the universe is one of the greatest of all philosophical quandaries. And the philosophy quandary of "meaning" is older than time itself.

The equatorial line is the perspective of Booker in BioShock Infinite, and the only one we can ever know and experience. Colours represent new universes/timelines/dimensions. Lines outside the equatorial represent universes/timelines/dimensions with known events happening parallel to Booker's perspective elsewhere.

Imagine printing it out and connecting it in a circle. It's missing the key point of what happens at the very end, what happens after the drowning. But as I said earlier, I view this as an inherently paradoxal universe collapsing the moment it came into existence, if it comes into existence at all. It is inherently paradoxal as the total sum of all constants and variables conflict and result in a situation where the universe is erased (Elizabeth's end-game doings). We still perceive events happening in a linear sequence because time and consciousness are funny things. Again, like our own universe: with nothing before and nothingness after, does what happen in the middle, reduced to zero, really "matter"? What "is"?

And if you want, you could almost look at the entire chain of events like a mini Big Bang. Take a new line and draw it down from the equator. Call that the timeline where Booker has Anna and lives on without interference. A universe born from paradox, because a paradox by nature cannot exist.

 

[MormaPope]

SOOOOO much THIS.

He could just simply say Infinite wasn't his personal taste. An that would be fine.

But no, he's says that Infinite narrative is awful. Awful. An yet, lists Bioshock as a better narrative (and I'm assuming simply because he liked that the civil war, and ideology of why the civil war began was tied into the main narrative).

But than what about the sloppy 3/4 part of the game where the narrative just falls of a cliff?

I mean, I don't know..I don't really care anymore I think. But he's just coming off sooo much as someone like this:

Bioshock 1 had no payoff with it's ending either, in fact everything that lead up to the point felt worthless and flat compared to everything leading up to it. Even the parts leading up to the big reveal or twist weren't really as engaging or narratively strong when compared to Infinite.

I guess it's possible that many may feel the opposite, that multiple realities devalue what happens in Infinite. But for me it doesn't, not at all, because the personal journey with the people of Columbia, Booker, Elizabeth, and Comstock still has merit. Just because there's always another lighthouse, another city, or another man doesn't devalue life itself, it simply makes it more grand and impossible to quantify.

There is probably a reality or even a place in this universe where there's a planet just like Earth, where it's people are exactly like the people on this planet. There is another me, made and born the same way, with the same features, with the same everything, typing out a post on a site called NeoGaf.

Do those possibilities or sheer vastness make my life or any life more meaningless or meaningful? Not at all. My perspective and what I choose to do with my perspective/consciousness is all I can really worry about or hang on to. Another part of that is having empathy for other perspectives.

 

[Red]

During the transfer her pinky was severed. This piece remained inbetween 2 worlds, booker's universe and comstock's universe. Thus, giving her the ability to open tears.

So that's the significance with the pinky. Thanks, that makes more sense. She exists in two simultaneous universes. Asking how it's possible for her to see all universes might be stretching the game's logic too far.

As a self-contained narrative I think Infinite does a good job, despite the questions it raises. Maybe it hasn't really sunk in yet, but I don't see as much direct meta-narrative here as was in Bioshock 1, which kind of played with the idea of what it meant to interact with games. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We get some remarks on what I guess is storytelling ("there will always be a man, and a lighthouse"), but nothing that I can recall which speaks about the game directly.

It's all done in a very clever way regardless.

Actually now that I think about it, "breaking the cycle" in this context could be commentary on the Shock-series. It's choosing to recognize the cycle each game takes, with all their similarities, and saying, here, let's kill this, we can do something different now.

Oh shit, it also goes along with breaking the cycle of ideology, which was a big motif of the game all along.

Ah parallels are even drawn between the timeless tendency to rally behind leaders/ideology regardless of truth via the illustrations of Comstock and the Pigs vs Lilly and the Vox.

It's all a cycle.

I just replayed the very beginning of the game and have a couple more questions...

There's a quote from Lutece right away that says something like "the brain will attempt to create memories where there are none," but I don't remember any false memories being created... only conveniently missing memories. Like, Booker knows he was in love with someone who died during childbirth, but he doesn't mention a child. He basically remembers his Pinkerton career. He has that history. He wouldn't recall becoming Comstock, because for him, that hasn't happened. He doesn't know Columbia exists until he gets there... that one might need a little explaining.

 

[DatDude]

I just can't help but feel defeated by watching eight iterations of your daughter looking at you with a collectively sad expression, then proceed to drown you.

That scene is locked in my skull.

Such a haunting and melancholic moment. Oh, the feels were aplenty:

 

[nbthedude]

And I'm glad you did. Now what I don't get is most of those videogame stories you listed can fall in the same lines of criticism you're applying to Infinite, yet you are being much harsher towards Infinite's narrative and plot.

No, they do not. And I have already explained the characteristics in Bioshock that make it a more cohesive, more tonally consistent, more focused, and a more all around well constructed narrative than Infinite. I have also explained why I think the gameplay and narrative work far more harmoniously in Bioshock 1, but I am not going to continue repeating myself. My posts are there for anyone who cares to read them.

If you want to to dismiss my criticism of Infinite's narrative as an irrational vendetta with no merit and Datdude wants to characterize me as a 5 year old in an Internet debate that is fine with me.

 

[Riposte]

lol bright yellow on gray/white EatChildren?

 

[EatChildren]

lol bright yellow on gray/white EatChildren?

I know . I'm sorry. Consequence of a lack of foresight, MS Paint, and laziness.

 

[disappeared]

and you call yourself a mod.

 

[DatDude]

No, they do not. And I have already explained the characteristics in Bioshock that make it a more cohesive, more tonally consistent, more focused, and a more all around well constructed narrative than Infinite. I have also explained why I think the gameplay and narrative work far more harmoniously in Bioshock 1, but I am not going to continue repeating myself. My posts are there for anyone who cares to read them.

If you want to to dismiss my criticism of Infinite's narrative as an irrational vendetta with no merit and Datdude wants to characterize me as a 5 year old in an Internet debate that is fine with me.

What the fuck are you even talking about. Your point is baseless due to the fact that everything after the plot wist was utter fucking garbage narrative wise. To say it's focused? Either give an explanation as to why you thought this focus remained and I'd give it some thought.

But to simply say it was more focused? Come on dude. Just say you like what Bioshock was trying to achieve better than what Infinite was trying to achieve. That's sounds more fair.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I really like what you've done with this. Couple of questions about it:

Is the red timeline the one where Booker dies as a martyr and becomes a heroic figure for the Vox? Might be neat to have that version of Booker's death marked on the timeline.

Also, wasn't there a point before the old Elizabeth/NYC attack scene where they jump back out of the red timeline? In a prison building or similar? I could be misremembering that.

 

[DatDude]

So that's the significance with the pinky. Thanks, that makes more sense. She exists in two simultaneous universes. Asking how it's possible for her to see all universes might be stretching the game's logic too far.

As a self-contained narrative I think Infinite does a good job, despite the questions it raises. Maybe it hasn't really sunk in yet, but I don't see as much direct meta-narrative here as was in Bioshock 1, which kind of played with the idea of what it meant to interact with games. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We get some remarks on what I guess is storytelling ("there will always be a man, and a lighthouse"), but nothing that I can recall which speaks about the game directly.

It's all done in a very clever way regardless.

Actually now that I think about it, "breaking the cycle" in this context could be commentary on the Shock-series. It's choosing to recognize the cycle each game takes, with all their similarities, and saying, here, let's kill this, we can do something different now.

Oh shit, it also goes along with breaking the cycle of ideology, which was a big motif of the game all along.

Ah parallels are even drawn between the timeless tendency to rally behind leaders/ideology regardless of truth via the illustrations of Comstock and the Pigs vs Lilly and the Vox.

Yup. When you start breaking the game down more, and analyzing the themes, then you discover what was a awesome ending, into a..HOLY SHIT, WOW type of ending.

 

[EatChildren]

and you call yourself a mod.

No, they call me a mod.

I really like what you've done with this. Couple of questions about it:

Is the red timeline the one where Booker dies as a martyr and becomes a heroic figure for the Vox? Might be neat to have that version of Booker's death marked on the timeline.

Also, wasn't there a point before the old Elizabeth/NYC attack scene where they jump back out of the red timeline? In a prison building or similar? I could be misremembering that.

It is, and I probably should have noted it, you're right. When I get back home after visiting my folks over Easter I want to rework it with a lot more detail and nicer presentation. And cover as much of the game as possible.

And I'm not sure. Definitely need to pay attention to that on my second playthrough. Booker jumps through to Old Elizabeth on the Bridge. And I know he joins the Vox rebellion timeline while on the quest to get the tools. I could be misremembering it, now that you mention it.

- Booker tries to get guy, guy is dead. Portal opened to universe where guy is alive.
- Guy is caught between worlds, confused, and has no tools. Quest embarked to get tools.
- Tools acquired, taken through to new timeline. Vox Rebellion, guy is dead, though had manufactured weapons for the Vox prior.
- ??? I remember the game continuing on from this point in this timeline. Could be wrong.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

It's implied she does, when each one disappears a musical note is played, and when it cuts to black one more note is played, right as it reaches our Elizabeth.

Was the musical notes C A G E?

 

[disappeared]

I can't put this in words

 

[Hylian7]

Was there ever a full on explanation of the music other than "They heard it out of tears"? Why would it be coming out of tears that you could see into and were clearly Columbia. Were they just a different Columbia in the future when those songs would have been released?

I hate to do this, but I got cut off on the last page...

Another random question: Does anything change if you take the Bird broach or Cage one early in the game? I took the Bird.

And another one: I don't know anything about System Shock 2, but I probably will play it. Would that game fit into this ending too?

 

[MormaPope]

No, they do not. And I have already explained the characteristics in Bioshock that make it a more cohesive, more tonally consistent, more focused, and a more all around well constructed narrative than Infinite. I have also explained why I think the gameplay and narrative work far more harmoniously in Bioshock 1, but I am not going to continue repeating myself. My posts are there for anyone who cares to read them.

If you want to to dismiss my criticism of Infinite's narrative as an irrational vendetta with no merit and Datdude wants to characterize me as a 5 year old in an Internet debate that is fine with me.

You never go full super saiyan.

Also you didn't really argue why the oddities in Bioshock 1's plot are somehow better or more consistent than Infinite's oddities.

 

[DatDude]

It is, and I probably should have noted it, you're right. When I get back home after visiting my folks over Easter I want to rework it with a lot more detail and nicer presentation. And cover as much of the game as possible.

Would really like to see a full blown chart from you. Seems like you have a really solid foundation in terms of knowledge with this narrative.

By the way your a mod. Couldn't you update the first page with a FAQ list, because it's getting kind of tiring and repetitive to answer the same questions over and over again.

Also, maybe including a really nice flow chart of the games events would be pretty helpful for players who just finished as well.

 

[CSX]

Does the game ever imply or state that Booker's wife died giving birth to Anna?

Assuming that's true, then Lady Comstack is in fact Booker's wife that survived because Booker became sterile and thus couldnt give birth in the first place.

So ummm...assuming that's all true how did DeWitt never thought that all the portraits/pics look awfully like this dead wife?

 

[greycolumbus]

I hate to do this, but I got cut off on the last page...

Another random question: Does anything change if you take the Bird broach or Cage one early in the game? I took the Bird.

And another one: I don't know anything about System Shock 2, but I probably will play it. Would that game fit into this ending too?

In regards to the music, I think its a mixture of another Columbia having the music and tears simply having different locations on the other side like the ones Elizabeth routinely deploys in set pieces. I lean more towards the latter though, and that one sequence when you hear Fortunate Son and see a ghostly Columbia probably wasn't indicative of an actual mirrored location more than it was indicative of simply a hole in space where people could listen to unfamiliar music.

 

[Red]

Does the game ever imply or state that Booker's wife died giving birth to Anna?

Assuming that's true, then Lady Comstack is in fact Booker's wife that survived because Booker became sterile and thus couldnt give birth in the first place.

So ummm...assuming that's all true how did DeWitt never thought that all the portraits/pics look awfully like this dead wife?

Lady Comstock was not Booker's wife. He had never met her. She assumed Liz was the child of Comstock + Lutece. That's why she kept calling her a bastard.

With multiple Bookers running around, those decoys make a lot more sense. Would be cool if they moved though.

Comstock doesn't have AD on his hand. But he knows Booker does. How would that be?

One of the things that makes this story tough to unravel is it's not time travel... It views time as flat. It is space-travel. Characters are moving through spaces. Liz can open holes to other worlds, but she can't move up and down a continuum of time. It just so happens that certain spaces have their past or futures occurring alongside her current present.

 

[MormaPope]

Never realized this, but one of the creations of Comstock's world, the vigors, aren't used by Comstock at all. Booker though needs the vigors to progress, without vigors his mission would be impossible to complete.

It's kind of like the mannerism or saying "your greatest weakness is yourself". Except in Infinite it's actually literal.

 

[DatDude]

Lady Comstock was not Booker's wife. He had never met her. She assumed Liz was the child of Comstock + Lutece. That's why she kept calling her a bastard.

With multiple Bookers running around, those decoys make a lot more sense. Would be cool if they moved though.

Comstock doesn't have AD on his hand. But he knows Booker does. How would that be?

For what it's worth, Booker's wife dying from child birth would be a somewhat obvious parallel to being a deceased ghost in this universe.

It seems to click better together..otherwise, it feels random..and everything in Infinite seems so concise and neatly tied together, that I refuse to believe Lady Comstock ghost isn't Booker dead wife who during child birth.

 

[DatDude]

You never go full super saiyan.

Also you didn't really argue why the oddities in Bioshock 1's plot are somehow better or more consistent than Infinite's oddities.

He never argues/explains anything period.

He just brings up stuff he doesn't like, and refuses to actually have an indepth discussion about his personal thoughts, and would rather just say this was better because it did this better without exactly explaining WHY he thought it did this better.

Feels like an honest to god troll sometimes.

 

[TheOddOne]

Taken from a gamefaqs post that explains it well I think.

----

Bioshock Infinite is a story, ultimately, about saving the universe. This only becomes clear in the last two scenes, when Booker is drowned, and has his child post-credits. Let's rewind.

The universe is one of constants and variables. It is not chaos theory. There are not universes born of every choice. Every universe reaches certain key events. Constants, and variables. The major constant that is addressed in the game is that of the baptism. Seemingly, we have two outcomes: one of Comstock, and one of Booker. But there are four. Four possible outcomes that serve as anchor points for the multiverse, with minor variations of these branching to and fro.

The first: Comstock is born, rules Columbia. Elizabeth is abandoned, and goes on the destroy New York.

The second: Comstock is born, but Elizabeth is saved, and Columbia is destroyed.

The third: Booker refuses baptism, but sells Anna to settle a debt to Comstock, who has breached his world to engineer this manipulation, and launching the whole adventure.

The fourth: Booker does not sell Anna, because Comstock never breaches his world.

The first three universes have one thing in common: the Lutece Tear. A rip in spacetime made possible by funding from Comstock. The first three outcomes are reliant on an existence of Comstock in order for the tear to be made possible. The tear is the real problem. It is causing the universe to fall apart. It is evident by the tears that exist around Columbia. And the problem is exacerbated as Booker and Elizabeth jump from world to world, resulting in people being caught between dimensions. The very fabric of spacetime is threatened. The only resolution is to eliminate the possibility of the tear. Lutece will always exist. But the funding does not without Comstock.

When Booker drowns, he closes the loop, and eliminates the possibility of Comstock. He rewrites the universal constant. The question is no longer "does Booker accept baptism?" There is no question. Every universe that is influenced by Comstock is eliminated, because there is no Comstock. This leaves only the fourth possibility, where Booker always refuses baptism. He never sells Anna. A new constant, no longer a point of divisiveness in the universe. There is no more tearing, no people caught between dimensions. The universe is fixed. No plot holes, no paradoxes. Everything wrapped up nice and neat.

GAMEFAQ of all places just blew my mind.

 

[PaulloDEC]

GAMEFAQ of all places just blew my mind.

That is a freakin' amazing post.

 

[Hylian7]

Another thing: Rapture didn't look that messed up like it was when you first entered Rapture in BioShock 1. Can we assume that the time was before BioShock 1 occurred? Sure we can still see a Little Sister and Big Daddy, but those were around in Rapture for a long time.

 

[Blinck]

A counter argument to those that say that everytime you die the Lucetes replace you with another Booker:

This doesn't make sense. You are the Booker that goes through everything without dying. If this was not the case then this cycle would not have been repeated 123 times already, because the Lucetes would have been able to do everything in one go, just "brute-forcing" their way through by replacing Booker at the points that he dies.

The dialogue between the Lucetes at the start indicates that they've been doing this beginning of the cycle over and over.

 

[DatDude]

GAMEFAQ of all places just blew my mind.

I like how that theme isn't all up in your face either.

Some games are like, you must save the galaxy from destruction!!!

Here, you actually have to dig and think about this equating to be the meaning.

Just really classy way I think.

 

[Eusis]

Man, you guys criticizing the comic must be a ton of fun to hang out with at parties! I can picture the crossed arms and hard-bitten facial expressions when you see a puppy chasing its tail and you proceed to say, "3/10, not cute enough." You guys practically radiate joy.

Maybe if that puppy were also Tim Buckley.

In regards to the weapon point I saw: yeah, the way they handled weapons for the vox is part of why I'm kinda frustrated with the two weapon setup. They're roughly similar weapons that nevertheless count as different ones, if I could just upgrade groups of weapons it'd be fine, or if I could just carry everything and some weapons share ammo, but as is it feels like grafting a more sophisticated weapon upgrading system on top of a standard two weapon shooter design, and it kinda sucks.

 

[DatDude]

Another thing: Rapture didn't look that messed up like it was when you first entered Rapture in BioShock 1. Can we assume that the time was before BioShock 1 occurred? Sure we can still see a Little Sister and Big Daddy, but those were around in Rapture for a long time.

Well the big daddy and little sister were created when the civil war was going on (due to the dead bodies, the little sisters went around collecting the adam).

So one could assume it's in that general timeline before Jack arrives.

 

[Nibel]

I hope this one doesn't get a sequel

It's basically the complete package; everything comes full circle. And DLC is still coming: what could that be about?

 

[Salsa]

GAMEFAQ of all places just blew my mind.

The first three universes have one thing in common: the Lutece Tear. A rip in spacetime made possible by funding from Comstock. The first three outcomes are reliant on an existence of Comstock in order for the tear to be made possible. The tear is the real problem. It is causing the universe to fall apart. It is evident by the tears that exist around Columbia. And the problem is exacerbated as Booker and Elizabeth jump from world to world, resulting in people being caught between dimensions. The very fabric of spacetime is threatened. The only resolution is to eliminate the possibility of the tear. Lutece will always exist. But the funding does not without Comstock.

When Booker drowns, he closes the loop, and eliminates the possibility of Comstock. He rewrites the universal constant. The question is no longer "does Booker accept baptism?" There is no question. Every universe that is influenced by Comstock is eliminated, because there is no Comstock. This leaves only the fourth possibility, where Booker always refuses baptism. He never sells Anna. A new constant, no longer a point of divisiveness in the universe. There is no more tearing, no people caught between dimensions. The universe is fixed. No plot holes, no paradoxes. Everything wrapped up nice and neat.

Spoiler

I love you ken

 

[DatDude]

I hope this one doesn't get a sequel

It's basically the complete package; everything comes full circle. And DLC is still coming: what could that be about?

3 seperate story pieces about 3 different characters set in the world of Columbia that would help further flesh out the narrative and lore of Columbia.

So just imagine Minerva's Den I guess.

 

[GoddyofAus]

I hope this one doesn't get a sequel

It's basically the complete package; everything comes full circle. And DLC is still coming: what could that be about?

As far as we know, it's not related to the main plot, it's side stories to flesh out Columbia from before Booker erased Comstocks existence.

 

[DatDude]

Spoiler

I love you ken

Exclamation-One will not be amused lol

 

[Salsa]

I saw the Fringe paralels instantly but honestly I didnt mind them because there's so much more than that when it comes to the game's whole story. Like you can see it as a "Fringe ripoff" I guess if you highlight exactly the things that are being brought up in that comment, wich in itself is just a theory, but that's barely one part/interpretation of it.

no matter how neat and "mindblowing" the end revelation can be, the highlight and best stuff from the game is still by far in the journey.

It is questionable though wether Ken was inspired by the show or not, but who cares.