It's not our Booker DeWitt. It was another alternate reality showing what happens now that the Comstock timelines are gone. No one comes to take his daughter. So he doesn't cease to exist, only Comstock.
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
It's not our Booker DeWitt. It was another alternate reality showing what happens now that the Comstock timelines are gone. No one comes to take his daughter. So he doesn't cease to exist, only Comstock.
reddwarf42
Member
But there are multiple versions of Booker in the multiverse. If he gets baptized he becomes Comstock if he doesn't he stays Booker. Killing one only kills one version of Comstock.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Liz sees all ends. Let's assume all roads lead to the baptism, at least all the ones where Comstock can be born. By going back to that original moment BEFORE there is a Comstock and killing Booker who gets baptized, none of the branches where there is a Comstock occur at all.
That isn't to say your interpretation isn't valid. Depending on how you read the final shot before the credits and the post-credits scene, you could also surmise that the loop has started again.
XANDER CAGE
Member
If that's the case then why do all Annas disappear? The game purposefully makes it seem as if the only possibilities are no Booker, or one Booker (since it cuts to black).
Also, if it's a Booker DeWitt that seemingly hasn't had this insane adventure and/or doesn't expect something bad to happen to her, why is he so hesitant/expectant when saying "Anna?"
OriginofHysteria
Banned
So Booker gets baptized to erase his sins and repent for Wounded Knee only to become a bigger dick as Comstock? 
GoddyofAus
Banned
I guess you have to account for the fact that if there are an Infinite amount of Universes, in at least one of those universes, Booker would have told Elizabeth to fuck off and had fought out of being drowned.
So Booker gets baptized to erase his sins and repent for Wounded Knee only to become a bigger dick as Comstock?
Something something commentary on how religious zealotry corrupts perhaps.
Dude, she flat out states that the baptism is the origin point for Comstock. Killing Booker there stops Comstock from coming about.
I have to reiterate this: It's the origin point for Comstock.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
JUST got C-A-G-E.
ADOYYYYY
WOW
ADOYYYYY
WOW
To quote Elizabeth exactly:
"I can see ALL the doors and what's behind all the doors. And behind ONE OF THEM, I see him." Booker replies, "Comstock."
Elizabeth takes Booker back to that one point that erases all possibilities of Comstock from all possibility spaces.
She continues later in the ending and says, "It will only be over when he never even lived in the first place."
Nappuccino
Member
This assumes that there is only one version of Booker that goes through the baptism.
If the premise of the game is true, there are 100's or thousands (perhaps even infinite) numbers of Bookers that turn into Comstocks.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I wonder how many people who can recognize notes on call figured that out way early, similar to how anyone who recognizes God Only Knows would have figured out the music thing in the first ten minutes.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Except the only Booker who manages to free Elizabeth from the siphon and thus unlock her full potential is OUR Booker.
But all this shit is extremely open to interpretation. This multiverse shit aint exactly real science. I just take the game/Liz at her word at the end, it's just a better ending that way imo. Given the themes of redemption and identity and second chances.
That's a really great question that I think the game intends for us to have: does killing Booker at the Baptism really stop all versions of Comstock?
My take on it is that Comstock is a special threat, because he has become dangerous not only in his own universe, but in the multiverse-at-large as well. The thing is, only one timeline (Booker is Baptized) results in Comstock, despite its infinitely dividing branches. The Luteces want to chop off the branches at the stem, this singular "constant" event of the Baptism, so Comstock cannot exist in any other timeline, because only one "constant" resulted in Comstock, and it's been prevented.
Thanks, SiskoKid. This is a major part of the ending, and I'm amazed people just overlook it.
Escape Goat
Member
Was the number 0451 in Infinite? I was playing Bioshock 1 and saw a paper with the number on it and thought I saw it in Infinite as well. What is the significance of it?
Not that it necessarily corrupts, I don't think. Just that it can be used by corrupt men as a means to excuse atrocities.
Nappuccino
Member
We didn't overlook it; that line just doesn't gel with what we learned before it. Hence the debate.
As far as I know, it's been in most or all of Irrational's games. I think it's a reference to Fahrenheit 451.
It works just fine, given that the multiverse concept was around for some time in the game. Not just that, Elizabeth absorbs all the power that was siphoned from her once the tower explodes which explains why she can now see into all the doors and create tears at will. Being able to see the source of all Comstock timelines and what to do to prevent him "from ever living" isn't a stretch at all.
Riposte
Member
I think not having been baptized Booker learned to live with his regrets (which also made him jaded), while Comstock placed himself in a position of absolute authority on morality. I think this attitude is reflected in an conversation with Elizabeth after she kills Fritzroy (or w/e).
XANDER CAGE
Member
It's basically their version of THX-1168. It appears as a door code in all of their games. In Infinite it's the elevator code before Emporia.
hmm.. soo .ya.. still infinite amount of possibilites that still exist. we just see the possible one where comstock dies and columbia never happens and a sort of happy ending with booker keeping anna. but, those other possible universes still exist.. neat
reddwarf42
Member
How does Elizabeth/Anna have this power in the first place? No one else seems to. Do the Luteces have this power and that is how they always disappear?
She lost her flesh, a part of her finger in between 2 universes during the transition when she was baby.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I figured that out (the sign even says "Tomorrow's Music Today") but I don't see how you're not supposed to. That and the "AD" are just very early clues that something is effed, time-wise. Along with seeing NYC, all that stuff is very up front. "C-A-G-E" tho. It got me.
Favorite covers? "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" was so amazing.
When do us non-Spesh Edishes get to get the soundtrack?
I stood there for 5 minutes, refusing to do it. I knew nothing was going to happen, I have to give it regardless but that sense of not giving her up felt oddly compelling. Was the hardest part of the game for me.
show me your skeleton
Member
what do you mean 'the music thing?'. i can't imagine anyone would've heard the barbershop quartet cover at the beginning of the game & then come up with the idea that this music is being written by a man 'inspired' by portals through other dimensions.
another question: lady comstock keeps talking about sin & that comstock was the only one who could forgive her. is that elaborated on at all, or is it just in the general 'we're all sinners' sense?
OriginofHysteria
Banned
So there are many Bookers in all the multiuniverses. But in one of them, that Booker becomes Comstock. They were in that door where Booker became Comstock, so by killing him in that universe, all Comstocks cease to exist. And the scene after the credits is just one of the many Bookers awaking in a different universe?
Did I get that right?
It's never explicitly explained, but in one of the first audiologs, Ms. Lutece states that Elizabeth is special because she "left behind a piece" of herself in the other dimension (her fingertip).
XANDER CAGE
Member
It's very on-the-nose if you look at it, but you'd be surprised - a lot of my friends simply thought it was a random old song, since they aren't familiar with the original. "The music of
Tomorrow" just seems like an ad in that context.
It gets way more explicit later on, though.
Aaah. I forgot about that.
Her fingertip was severed by a tear when she was a baby (when she was being taken by Comstock). Lutece says her power is due to her being in two universes at once.
The One Who Knocks
Member
The Luteces are trapped in the timeline due to Fink's (on Comstock's order to cover up the circumstances of his 'miracle child''s birth) botched murder attempt by sabotaging the machine.
As for Elizabeth's powers: "What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is and more to do with what she's not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas with its porridge."
show me your skeleton
Member
yeah, fair enough. i'm talking from the perspective of knowledge, i know (& love) the beach boys original. the only one i hadn't heard before was the creedance clearwater revival track &, low n' behold, its metamorphosis into this personal, soulful lament, was a bit lost on me.
Empty Space
Member
Wouldn't that imply the male Lucete has the same abilities since he got lost between dimensions? I was under the impression she was born with the potential for the powers, but the Lucetes fostered it into the god powers you see in the game.
Do they ever explain what the Songbird actually is? I know the design came from a tear and Fink made it, but they don't really explain why its so attached to Elizabeth and obeys here to some extent.
ThaiGrocer
Member
Totally making this my ringtone: https://soundcloud.com/jsparakov/combinedstreaming-sfx-00610
There's no turning back.
There's no turning back.
Good catch!! Forgot about that quote.
reddwarf42
Member
Ah yes. I remember that quote. Are there multiverses where Elizabeth does not get her finger chopped off, I wonder? What is Comstock siphoning exactly?
I suspect one of the DLCs will be who is in the Songbird "suit". Fink obviously made "but how?" is the question.
bodyofanamerican
Member
God dammit. Where are you getting these???
Also, I was just going to ask what that awesome cello-themed song was from towards the end. Duh, Elizabeth's theme. Glad I didn't listen to it before I played
It really reminds of the opening of Braid.blame space
Banned
cool game. i'm still trying to figure everything out that just happened. very strong ending and a good time all around.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Man what an ending....didn't get a thing
The whole thing was a WTF moment.
Obviously SPOILERS
Why did I end up in rapture? Why did they kill me at the end?
The whole thing was a WTF moment.
Obviously SPOILERS
Why did I end up in rapture? Why did they kill me at the end?
There's DLC to hope for with different characters and narratives.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Why would you know this? Are you a historian or something? Are you secretly Dennis Miller who knows every piece of historical minutia known to man?
Alice Roosevelt was a pretty significant figure; she was one of the first American "socialites" to speak of. She got in trouble for driving in a car!!! and speeding (going 20 mph!!!!). She got around a bit, was always seen at openings, and eventually married a rising star congressman. She was a constant source of stress for Teddy. That portrait in particular is pretty famous.
She drowns Songbird by teleporting him there, but other than that there's no particular significance. Elizabeth explicitly tells you why you're there.. In every dimension, in every universe, there is a man with a vision who builds a city. The lighthouses are the nexus between dimensions. She brings you to Rapture and surfaces you in a Bathysphere so you can see the lighthouse in that dimension (the BioShock 1/2 dimension), and then when you go through the door you see all the lighthouses--all the dimensions.
In some dimensions Comstock is Booker. When he was baptized after Wounded Knee, he took a new name. In order to prevent everything that happened and save Elizabeth's suffering, the only way to do it would be to kill Comstock as he was being born--so they go to the moment where Comstock was born (Booker's baptism) and drown him, so that he is never born.
You should read that big analysis someone wrote on reddit, because you seem to not grasp even the most basic concepts surrounding the ending.
She brings you to Rapture to drown Songbird, but also to show you the limitless potential of differences between universes.
The One Who Knocks
Member
It is a possibility but what we are playing is the Luteces' attempt to reset the timeline. As a result, every other infinite set of universes in which Comstock exists where different 'main' events occur is irrelevant because there is no probability of the Luteces' interference being reset within them (or at least, this is what I assume).
Yes, this story is ultimately the Lucetes trying to right a wrong. In the ending they describe Booker as their 'hairshirt.' A 'hairshirt' is an item of redemption or atonement someone wears.
By finally figuring out a way to destroy Comstock they reset everything so they don't basically fuck the world over.