Brother's brother is Left, right?
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[SPOILERS] Zero Time Dilemma Spoiler Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Yasumi
- Start date
Brother's brother is Left, right?
calc84maniac
Member
Yeah, I forgot his name. I don't think he's the terrorist, I mean, Brother would know wouldn't he? Or it could be dramatic irony that he kills 75% of the population just to kill the guy right next to him
The Terrorist wants to kill 100% of the population(FBR Virus). By releasing Radical-6 is guarantee that at least 25% of the population will survive.
calc84maniac
Member
Yes, I know. I'm saying that if Left was the terrorist (as an earlier post suggested) it would be pretty ironic since Brother could have a 100% chance of killing him
VLR is still king for me in nearly every way.
Yup, to me VLR is still King
Well, I know Left dies when he's young, but...
Isn't Dio a Left Clone? Who created Dio, Brother?
StarStabbedMoon
Member
ah i should've read the files
I have no idea how Delta is over a hundred years old. He's still alive in VLR as well. Since he's a stand-in for the player, you could assume age doesn't matter and him being as healthy as it gets even at that impossible age reinforces that. He's just forever alive, since we can see the whole spectrum of the timeline. He's alive from the earliest to the farthest point in the timeline we have access to. But then again, that's just my interpretation/guess.
What happened to the 1908 Phi is in the files... She becomes a scientist that studies the transporter. When the transporter is, well, transported to the US, she goes with it to continue studying it in the US facility. In that facility, baby Phi wakes up in the pod.
The VLR timelines do keep looping. All of those histories exist, they're not deleted when someone jumps. They needed the knowledge from the VLR timeline to find another where the calamity didn't happen, or rather to stop the calamity from happening. That, however, does not delete the VLR timeline, it just makes so it won't happen in that timeline.
If they stopped the terrorist or not... is up for interpretation. It's an intentionally open ending, but not a bait for a sequel.
Left is Brother's adoptive brother. He died at a young age. Dio is his clone. Presumably Brother himself cloned him at some point. I don't recall they ever saying he was a terrorist. He was no older than 16 when he died...
Out of curiosity: for those who've played through the Vita version - is the "Wrinkle in Time" gold trophy for PERCEPTIVE END (e.g. shooting Delta in the Q-Team standoff?)
I'm not sure how I feel about the Delta twist, to be honest. It works in the sense that nothing explicitly contradicts it, and there are a few breadcrumbs (such as Eric mentioning the "old man in the chair", which they felt the need to flashback to as a reminder), but it still felt like a bit too much of a swerve. The idea that there was a 4th Q-Team member sitting just out of the camera angle felt a little too convenient, even accounting for the idea that the player was seeing "through" his eyes most of the time.
I will say it was good misdirection for fans of the series, though - everyone assumed there could only be 9 "real" players. I also liked that the "insert name" segments let them play with that twist a bit (like saying "SEAN" at "Who killed Mira?" resulting in Eric saying "I knew it was you".)
Also throwing my hat in the "disappointed about no ?/Kyle resolution" ring. I guess we can sort of interpret the non-Delta perspectives as being seen by ?, but it was unfortunate the idea got dropped. On the other hand, this did help dodge one of my fears for the ending, which was an Ever17-style
.
I'm not sure how I feel about the Delta twist, to be honest. It works in the sense that nothing explicitly contradicts it, and there are a few breadcrumbs (such as Eric mentioning the "old man in the chair", which they felt the need to flashback to as a reminder), but it still felt like a bit too much of a swerve. The idea that there was a 4th Q-Team member sitting just out of the camera angle felt a little too convenient, even accounting for the idea that the player was seeing "through" his eyes most of the time.
I will say it was good misdirection for fans of the series, though - everyone assumed there could only be 9 "real" players. I also liked that the "insert name" segments let them play with that twist a bit (like saying "SEAN" at "Who killed Mira?" resulting in Eric saying "I knew it was you".)
Also throwing my hat in the "disappointed about no ?/Kyle resolution" ring. I guess we can sort of interpret the non-Delta perspectives as being seen by ?, but it was unfortunate the idea got dropped. On the other hand, this did help dodge one of my fears for the ending, which was an Ever17-style
"magic player avatar solves everything"
What a colossal waste of time. Really... that was so bad I can't even get mad.
Zero Escape is officialy the "Lost" of videogames.
999 - 1st season: Very interesting premise, character-focused, a lot of mystery, kiiiiiiiinda grounded, and with a shocking twist. Gets a legion of dedicated fans who spend way too much time trying to piece together the plot.
VLR - 3rd season: Slow start, but gets better at the end. Novelty is gone, but goes all in with the weird shit, and the very huge scope of things makes for a megalomaniac and delicious meal. Plus... "We have to go back!"
ZTD - 6th season: Proves they had absolutely no idea what to do with the story and put a lot of shit in either to completely ignore or to just come with some magic (ALIENS AYY LMAO) bullshit in order not to explain. And everyone grab hands and sing kumbaya at the end.
Zero Escape is officialy the "Lost" of videogames.
999 - 1st season: Very interesting premise, character-focused, a lot of mystery, kiiiiiiiinda grounded, and with a shocking twist. Gets a legion of dedicated fans who spend way too much time trying to piece together the plot.
VLR - 3rd season: Slow start, but gets better at the end. Novelty is gone, but goes all in with the weird shit, and the very huge scope of things makes for a megalomaniac and delicious meal. Plus... "We have to go back!"
ZTD - 6th season: Proves they had absolutely no idea what to do with the story and put a lot of shit in either to completely ignore or to just come with some magic (ALIENS AYY LMAO) bullshit in order not to explain. And everyone grab hands and sing kumbaya at the end.
The Akane one was fine but ughhhhh at that Eric and Mira one.
Are there any for Diana/Sigma/Phi? I know there's the pre-VLR one for Sigma/Diana.
Poor Phi, really. For all the mystery over her and how big a role she had in VLR she kind of got sidelined in this game by Delta. Not that she had no good scenes, just that in the grand scheme of things she's kind of just there instead of actively solving the mystery like in VLR.
PaulExcellent
Member
This was the perfect way to end the series. I could easily give it a 10/10, but...
ERIC IS A PIECE OF SHIT AND MADE THIS WHOLE THING SO GODDAMN DIFFICULT JESUS CHRIST
ERIC IS A PIECE OF SHIT AND MADE THIS WHOLE THING SO GODDAMN DIFFICULT JESUS CHRIST
There's massive pacing issues with this game, I feel. You don't get to the meat of the writing until you've basically finished every puzzle room, and then the game pretty quickly wraps up.
I liked the schlock twists, for the most part. When it comes to these games, the dumber the better. The final chunk of the game was really deflated by the ending, though. Finding out that the whole point of the game was to give the team the motivation to stop a religious fanatic was just so bad. Also everybody being a happy family despite Mira being a crazy murderer is so bizarre. They didn't really conclude her storyline (killing Eric's mother, getting Akane's dad arrested and mother suicidal) very well at all.
Also the rapey scene between Carlos and Akane wasn't very necessary.
I liked the schlock twists, for the most part. When it comes to these games, the dumber the better. The final chunk of the game was really deflated by the ending, though. Finding out that the whole point of the game was to give the team the motivation to stop a religious fanatic was just so bad. Also everybody being a happy family despite Mira being a crazy murderer is so bizarre. They didn't really conclude her storyline (killing Eric's mother, getting Akane's dad arrested and mother suicidal) very well at all.
Also the rapey scene between Carlos and Akane wasn't very necessary.
calc84maniac
Member
Seems like somebody forgot the point of the motorcycle analogy at the end of VLR.
Also without the VLR timeline the other timelines couldn't have come about.
Which was? I forgot about it. [Edit: Found it]
I understand the VLR timeline thing tho lol
Man, VLR writing is soooo good.
calc84maniac
Member
Tenmyouji gets all pissed at people for considering the possibility that the past of their timeline would change as a result of Sigma and Phi leaping to the past. But rather, they keep on living in that timeline. And Tenmyouji has no regrets, because he wouldn't have met Quark otherwise.
Uchikoshi sure did.
The motorcycle analogy was brought up by Clover in order to, among other things, explain and empathize with the situation she and Alice ended up in because of Akane's plan. It was then hinted that there could be a way to send them back involving the Schrodinger's Box.
But life is unfair, isn't it?
And like every other element from VLR's true ending, this was completely ignored. Instead, we got alien machine.
calc84maniac
Member
Yeah, I was all ready for Alice to get sent back to ancient Egypt and end up being All-Ice all along.
Finished.
Well, to be honest... this was kinda shitty. DID THE PARTY JUST GIVE A JRPG STYLE SPEECH ABOUT THE FUTURE, WHAT THE FUCK!?
Anyway...
Most of the twists were pretty meh. The only one I truly liked was "It was the same building all along!", which to be honest I'm surprised I didn't see coming, it's a VERY classical Uchikoshi/Infinity series twist.
I'm not sure what to think of Zero/Delta character. Mostly, because he doesn't seem to have any? I suppose they wanted him to come off as some sort of "Time Lord" or "Brilliant Mastermind!!!", but to me, he's just an edgy guy who quotes Latin. I suppose Sean was supposed to show us his human side, but given how he has no qualms with blowing up his sister, or taunting his mother, it's kinda hard to take this part serious. He's basically Akane without all that makes Akane interesting.
I actually managed to guess his identity as soon the other twin name was revealed. If you go back to the "Who do i shot?" choice with Q and use his name Q actually turns around and shoots him. That confused the fuck out of me, but it basically confirmed my idea. Also, he was with the Q team the whole time? How does it work? Also
did this twist first and better anyway.
Mira and Eric were awful, awful characters. I was laughing my ass off at the scene in which she rips Eric's chest and takes out his heart. Soooo bad. Also, his Q supposed to be an Emil expy? There is even a scene with Mira sitting on Q's head toward the end.
Radical 6 was released to stop a random, no name terrorist in the future?
I'm sorry, but that's an awful motivation. I was also expecting some interesting revelation about Radical 6, but nope, LITERALLY a plot device virus.
I remember once I actually wanted to make a joke during about how the only sci-fi clichè VLR didn't have was ANCIENT ALIENS.
Phi and Sigma characters were VERY DISAPPOINTING. It felt like freaking Carlos had more impact on the plot than them. Sigma felt more than a baby factory than anything. Phi ultimately... what did she do exactly? She felt like a pretty pointless character, even if I enjoyed her scenes with Sigma and Diana. VLR hyped her so much.
There are so many loops at this point - ESPECIALLY if you also start to take VLR in consideration - that I'm not sure it's even possible to understand them all.
Kyle and Blink Winkel were never heard again.
But my biggest issue is: WHY THE CINEMATIC STYLE? It's because they had a very small budget and couldn't afford more than 5 backgrounds? It's a fully animated game more expensive than a VN? How does it work?
So yeah, tl;dl I'm not very satisfied with this ZTD. It's good to get closure, but that's all there is.
Well, to be honest... this was kinda shitty. DID THE PARTY JUST GIVE A JRPG STYLE SPEECH ABOUT THE FUTURE, WHAT THE FUCK!?
Anyway...
Most of the twists were pretty meh. The only one I truly liked was "It was the same building all along!", which to be honest I'm surprised I didn't see coming, it's a VERY classical Uchikoshi/Infinity series twist.
I'm not sure what to think of Zero/Delta character. Mostly, because he doesn't seem to have any? I suppose they wanted him to come off as some sort of "Time Lord" or "Brilliant Mastermind!!!", but to me, he's just an edgy guy who quotes Latin. I suppose Sean was supposed to show us his human side, but given how he has no qualms with blowing up his sister, or taunting his mother, it's kinda hard to take this part serious. He's basically Akane without all that makes Akane interesting.
I actually managed to guess his identity as soon the other twin name was revealed. If you go back to the "Who do i shot?" choice with Q and use his name Q actually turns around and shoots him. That confused the fuck out of me, but it basically confirmed my idea. Also, he was with the Q team the whole time? How does it work? Also
Sharin
Mira and Eric were awful, awful characters. I was laughing my ass off at the scene in which she rips Eric's chest and takes out his heart. Soooo bad. Also, his Q supposed to be an Emil expy? There is even a scene with Mira sitting on Q's head toward the end.
Radical 6 was released to stop a random, no name terrorist in the future?
I'm sorry, but that's an awful motivation. I was also expecting some interesting revelation about Radical 6, but nope, LITERALLY a plot device virus.
I remember once I actually wanted to make a joke during about how the only sci-fi clichè VLR didn't have was ANCIENT ALIENS.
Phi and Sigma characters were VERY DISAPPOINTING. It felt like freaking Carlos had more impact on the plot than them. Sigma felt more than a baby factory than anything. Phi ultimately... what did she do exactly? She felt like a pretty pointless character, even if I enjoyed her scenes with Sigma and Diana. VLR hyped her so much.
There are so many loops at this point - ESPECIALLY if you also start to take VLR in consideration - that I'm not sure it's even possible to understand them all.
Kyle and Blink Winkel were never heard again.
But my biggest issue is: WHY THE CINEMATIC STYLE? It's because they had a very small budget and couldn't afford more than 5 backgrounds? It's a fully animated game more expensive than a VN? How does it work?
So yeah, tl;dl I'm not very satisfied with this ZTD. It's good to get closure, but that's all there is.
Now that you mention returning characters.... have to say that what they did to Akane was painful. I can soooooort of buy "Emo Junpei" as a bridge between what he was in 999 and what he will be in VLR (not very likeable, nonetheless).
But Akane? They basically reverted her back to her "cute girl" facade and made THAT canon. I spent the entire game expecting her to be all like "I'm done with this shit, let's get to business", and that never happened. Watching her and Old Sigma going "Oh my god! What is this! How could you do that?!!! He is dead, NO!" was pathetic.
And everytime they mentioned the incident in 999, I got the feeling they were dumbing that down, like, yeaaaah, that happened.... but nevermind, that was the cute one! Now THIS, THIS is the evil one! And all that for what? A wedding file? Seriously? Fans were really that eager to see Junpei and Akane together that they had to sacrifice her whole character?
But Akane? They basically reverted her back to her "cute girl" facade and made THAT canon. I spent the entire game expecting her to be all like "I'm done with this shit, let's get to business", and that never happened. Watching her and Old Sigma going "Oh my god! What is this! How could you do that?!!! He is dead, NO!" was pathetic.
And everytime they mentioned the incident in 999, I got the feeling they were dumbing that down, like, yeaaaah, that happened.... but nevermind, that was the cute one! Now THIS, THIS is the evil one! And all that for what? A wedding file? Seriously? Fans were really that eager to see Junpei and Akane together that they had to sacrifice her whole character?
I personally was hoping to see Junpei screaming "YOU WERE THE PREVIOUS ZERO!!!" in her face in front of Carlos for some serious confrontation between the 3.
But that never happened. I guess they didn't want to derail the plot too much by dragging more 999 stuff, but meh.
I was wondering where Kyle was the whole game. Got Nothing.
Delta probably has some kinda of implants in him. The color of his eyes aren't human. Maybe cybernetic implants ?
My theory on the Old Phi is that she knew her other self was sent to the future, thus she worked close to the teleportation device her whole life. Based on how long she lived (around 100s years I guess) it's possible that she met Young Phi while she was still alive, but Young Phi would be too young to remember that. As a personal theory, I like to believe that one of the researchers that adopted her might be Old Phi's children.
The VLR timeline will keep going, but I think it would be more interesting to think about how it got to that point. Delta developed Radical 6 to avoid the total destruction of humanity and save around 20% of the population. He knew about humanity total destruction way before it happened, so I think Old Phi might have helped him with what happens in the future. Also, how bad the original situation must have been that the only solution is to create another virus ?
To me the end is basically Delta saying: "I've tried everything and VLR was the best I could manage. Good luck to all of you."
His last phrase "This is the Decision Game" was also one that I adored. To me it represents how well he can manipulate timelines/persons to his will.
How about somone from the team went back in time and remove the snail from the woman's path and none of this woulda happened
That's basically what the files about Mira and Eric imply. Snail on the road and the first murder would happen, which was the first person Mira killed. The files said they would try to avoid that, so it's possible that it would be the "no snail" timeline.
Though I am sure that timeline ends up with humanity dying by poisoning because of a pidgeon. Or something like that.
There are a lot of bombs in Team D's routes
StarStabbedMoon
Member
chronological timeline (after you learn they're in the same ward), please forgive the poor photoshop job, i did it quickly. I might remake it with the steam version of the game.
There's one problem with the timeline. If the route where Delta and Phi are born takes place 10 months roughly after. It should be way further down then the route with the force quit boxes.
Grim Patron
Member
hurricanes
Member
I got the D-team box. Smell that parent-child time-loop things miles away...
StarStabbedMoon
Member
So I'm wondering, wouldn't letting Mira loose in the shelter be a bit risky for delta? The timeline he's born in is the timeline q team dies (which is a bit fucked up now that I think about it), so he's safe there (his birth at least ironically). But letting her loose in the outbreak/vlr timeline risks letting sigma/phi/Diana or even Mira herself dying before radical 6 is spread. I mean I guess there are plenty of opportunities for the outbreak to fail, but it seems like an unnecessary risk.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
Okay hot damn marathoned this yesterday for 19 hours straight. Here we go.
C Team:
Loved the shit head Junpei. I thought ugh his reactions were appropriate considering what Akane did to him and he was very obviously pretty traumatized from it all. It also explained Tenmyouji's alcoholism.
Akane was just sort of there. It felt like she was there just cause the story needed her to be. Badges chainsaw bit though.
I REALLY liked Carlos. He was such a stereotypical all American hero type and when he started getting used to shifting his cockiness was fun. He seemed to enjoy it unlike other shifters who do it cause they wanna save the world or whatever.
D Team:
I actually called Phi being Sigma and Diana's daughter a while back so I'm glad it turned out to be true. I love stories where a time traveling child interacts with their parents, and this gives a whole new light to VLR.
Diana was a lovely character. I loved her like I loved Luna. So sweet and kind.
Phi was great here, even if it felt like she was dead for half the game. It was more of her origin story than her action sorry, which was VLR.
Q Team:
Everything regarding Sean was neato. Everybody expected somebody under the helmet that we knew. So the biggest twist really was having nobody under there.
Q being our perspective character was a neat twist. When he first stepped out I was super confused. I thought I had missed a fragment or something, haha.
Eric was boring as hell. I expected so much craziness from him. Instead there was just some bullshit about smiling and his brother's body in a lake. Kinda bland.
Mira was cool in the beginning but she suffers from being the first twist reveal. The moment Zero mentioned the Heart Ripper I knew it'd be somebody in the cast so having it be revealed to be Mira only a couple hours later didn't hit me much at all. The crossbow ending was brutal and awesome though so she gets some points.
I kinda feel like the VLR time line ending here was known about for quite some time, as all the questions I had about what happened in the past in VLR were answered, while the true ending where everybody is happy was just pulled together a bit. Who knows, maybe it was all a dream of Sean when he last connected to the Quantum Computer. ;p
So we know Ace is locked up, Seven is still doing police stuff, Lotus is happy with her girls, and Santa helps Akane with Crash Keys. From VLR we know Snake is an author and musician. And we know what happened to June and Akane.
For VLR, the time line diverged. Everybody there is inconsequential because their story either ended or is in ZTD. Except for K, Alice, and Clover. What the hell? We literally had a device that San transfer bodies through time and we didn't have any Alice or Clover involved. Just a glimpse or mention of them in the files at the end would have satisfied me. Then there's Kyle, who was apparently completely forgotten. Weird.
Hopefully the inevitable QA with Uchikoshi answers what happened to those three. If I get that info I'll be completely happy.
As it stands, as a finale to the series I love ZTD. It's awesome and gave me most of the answers I've been waiting years to find out.
As a continuation of VLR it falls short. Too many plot lines dropped.
As a finale for the characters I've come to love it succeeds on most fronts, as it felt so good to see Junpei Akane, Sigma, and Phi happy and succeed with their work.
I'm satisfied. I'm so glad this was able to be made.
C Team:
Loved the shit head Junpei. I thought ugh his reactions were appropriate considering what Akane did to him and he was very obviously pretty traumatized from it all. It also explained Tenmyouji's alcoholism.
Akane was just sort of there. It felt like she was there just cause the story needed her to be. Badges chainsaw bit though.
I REALLY liked Carlos. He was such a stereotypical all American hero type and when he started getting used to shifting his cockiness was fun. He seemed to enjoy it unlike other shifters who do it cause they wanna save the world or whatever.
D Team:
I actually called Phi being Sigma and Diana's daughter a while back so I'm glad it turned out to be true. I love stories where a time traveling child interacts with their parents, and this gives a whole new light to VLR.
Diana was a lovely character. I loved her like I loved Luna. So sweet and kind.
Phi was great here, even if it felt like she was dead for half the game. It was more of her origin story than her action sorry, which was VLR.
Q Team:
Everything regarding Sean was neato. Everybody expected somebody under the helmet that we knew. So the biggest twist really was having nobody under there.
Q being our perspective character was a neat twist. When he first stepped out I was super confused. I thought I had missed a fragment or something, haha.
Eric was boring as hell. I expected so much craziness from him. Instead there was just some bullshit about smiling and his brother's body in a lake. Kinda bland.
Mira was cool in the beginning but she suffers from being the first twist reveal. The moment Zero mentioned the Heart Ripper I knew it'd be somebody in the cast so having it be revealed to be Mira only a couple hours later didn't hit me much at all. The crossbow ending was brutal and awesome though so she gets some points.
I kinda feel like the VLR time line ending here was known about for quite some time, as all the questions I had about what happened in the past in VLR were answered, while the true ending where everybody is happy was just pulled together a bit. Who knows, maybe it was all a dream of Sean when he last connected to the Quantum Computer. ;p
So we know Ace is locked up, Seven is still doing police stuff, Lotus is happy with her girls, and Santa helps Akane with Crash Keys. From VLR we know Snake is an author and musician. And we know what happened to June and Akane.
For VLR, the time line diverged. Everybody there is inconsequential because their story either ended or is in ZTD. Except for K, Alice, and Clover. What the hell? We literally had a device that San transfer bodies through time and we didn't have any Alice or Clover involved. Just a glimpse or mention of them in the files at the end would have satisfied me. Then there's Kyle, who was apparently completely forgotten. Weird.
Hopefully the inevitable QA with Uchikoshi answers what happened to those three. If I get that info I'll be completely happy.
As it stands, as a finale to the series I love ZTD. It's awesome and gave me most of the answers I've been waiting years to find out.
As a continuation of VLR it falls short. Too many plot lines dropped.
As a finale for the characters I've come to love it succeeds on most fronts, as it felt so good to see Junpei Akane, Sigma, and Phi happy and succeed with their work.
I'm satisfied. I'm so glad this was able to be made.
herminihildo
Member
Finally finished it too. It was awesome. But VLR is still king. No K, Clover and Alice was disappointing.
That shower though *shudders*
Sigma was downgraded from one of the most stronger shifters in VLR to (as someone said earlier) a baby making factory. He barely made made any jumps or recalling less than Phi. And Phi was barely even there.
Well, I actually enjoyed Carlos. I thought that he is even ? in VLR.
That shower though *shudders*
Sigma was downgraded from one of the most stronger shifters in VLR to (as someone said earlier) a baby making factory. He barely made made any jumps or recalling less than Phi. And Phi was barely even there.
Well, I actually enjoyed Carlos. I thought that he is even ? in VLR.
herminihildo
Member
That was hilarious. Especially when it kept zooming in as time passes
hans_castorp
Member
Finished.
Overall I liked it, it's a decent finale to the trilogy. Leaving ambiguous what happens with Delta was a nice detail too. It's up to the reader to judge his actions.
But yeah, coming from VLR it kinda falls short.
It was really disappointing to find they dropped the Blickwinkel and Kyle plots. And was expecting an Ever17-esque ending regarding the player.
Overall I liked it, it's a decent finale to the trilogy. Leaving ambiguous what happens with Delta was a nice detail too. It's up to the reader to judge his actions.
But yeah, coming from VLR it kinda falls short.
It was really disappointing to find they dropped the Blickwinkel and Kyle plots. And was expecting an Ever17-esque ending regarding the player.
hans_castorp
Member
He didn´t stop Delta, despite knowing about the game. He wanted to reunite with the J&A that teleported, so waited till the game had started.
It was the time-line were Radical6 was released
Though you could argue that it is only thanks to him that Akane was able to plan the AB game with Sigma
Just beat it now.
Have to say the Delta twist blew my mind and threw everything into question for me, ha ha.
That said, while I did enjoy the game for the most part and thoroughly enjoyed it, I can't help but feel disappointed with how it ended and how many things weren't touched upon and mysteries not being solved. In fact, it seems ZTD just added to the pile too.
These are at least the ones I recall that remain unsolved, including new ones added.
-Kyle seemingly not being in ZTD, despite in VLR being called an important factor and teased at the end (Only possible theory could be he's inhabiting Gab's body?)
-No more info about Aoi (Though ironically Junpei did ask, but no reply)
-Nothing about Clover/Alice coming back as teased in VLR. (Also no more about ALLICE/Ice-9, which I knew wasn't going to be in this prior, but still..)
-Didn't reveal anything about the mystery hooded person who killed Sigma/Phi/Diana (Seemed likely it was Mira because of the black nails, but no idea why or how she got there. Also didn't show her killing Junpei, which was odd. No idea why or how she did that either)
-No info about the fanatic who causes humanity's extinction, which somehow Delta doesn't even know.
-Nothing about Akane and possibly Junpei(?) going to the Free the Soul meeting to learn the "truth"
-Origins of Radical-6 weren't revealed (I mean we know how it was released in this, but I wanted to know who made it and how it got there, other than it was just inside of a pig)
-The end of ZTD itself, what happens next? (Unless the ending is just that there is no "good ending", and it is just a choice between 6 billion being killed or all of humanity being extinct and killing/not killing Delta doesn't change anything or introduce something else)
-Nothing about what happened to Old Phi, (If she did anything significant anyway, I guess she may have been raised to be an essentially different person in her circumstances)
So yeah...I'm pretty disappointed if none of this is revealed. The Kyle one is the most bizarre to me, especially as he was only revealed in a secret ending on VLR, and nothing? Similar for Alive/Clover too, though it's possible they did come back using the teleporter, but just lived their lives normally after that?
I really want to know if a ZE4 is being planned now, it seemed originally not, but I guess after the outcry for ZE3 they expanded their plans more? Just seems mean to drop more mysteries in this game, knowing they won't be revealed.
Only other thing I'm disappointed about was I didn't really get the same sense of shock/tension that I did in VLR/999. Like discovering dead bodies for the first time, finding bombs, discovering you were Dr Klim in VLR, the Axe/Submarine endings in 999. Nothing really came close, other than finding Junpei's limbs and finally his head in one of the puzzle rooms, but that the shock of that was sadly spoiled as it was seen in a "prominition" earlier, that and you never found out why or how Mira killed him.
All that said, I'm still very glad I got the game and that it happened and I still consider the ZE games a masterpiece.
Have to say the Delta twist blew my mind and threw everything into question for me, ha ha.
That said, while I did enjoy the game for the most part and thoroughly enjoyed it, I can't help but feel disappointed with how it ended and how many things weren't touched upon and mysteries not being solved. In fact, it seems ZTD just added to the pile too.
These are at least the ones I recall that remain unsolved, including new ones added.
-Kyle seemingly not being in ZTD, despite in VLR being called an important factor and teased at the end (Only possible theory could be he's inhabiting Gab's body?)
-No more info about Aoi (Though ironically Junpei did ask, but no reply)
-Nothing about Clover/Alice coming back as teased in VLR. (Also no more about ALLICE/Ice-9, which I knew wasn't going to be in this prior, but still..)
-Didn't reveal anything about the mystery hooded person who killed Sigma/Phi/Diana (Seemed likely it was Mira because of the black nails, but no idea why or how she got there. Also didn't show her killing Junpei, which was odd. No idea why or how she did that either)
-No info about the fanatic who causes humanity's extinction, which somehow Delta doesn't even know.
-Nothing about Akane and possibly Junpei(?) going to the Free the Soul meeting to learn the "truth"
-Origins of Radical-6 weren't revealed (I mean we know how it was released in this, but I wanted to know who made it and how it got there, other than it was just inside of a pig)
-The end of ZTD itself, what happens next? (Unless the ending is just that there is no "good ending", and it is just a choice between 6 billion being killed or all of humanity being extinct and killing/not killing Delta doesn't change anything or introduce something else)
-Nothing about what happened to Old Phi, (If she did anything significant anyway, I guess she may have been raised to be an essentially different person in her circumstances)
So yeah...I'm pretty disappointed if none of this is revealed. The Kyle one is the most bizarre to me, especially as he was only revealed in a secret ending on VLR, and nothing? Similar for Alive/Clover too, though it's possible they did come back using the teleporter, but just lived their lives normally after that?
I really want to know if a ZE4 is being planned now, it seemed originally not, but I guess after the outcry for ZE3 they expanded their plans more? Just seems mean to drop more mysteries in this game, knowing they won't be revealed.
Only other thing I'm disappointed about was I didn't really get the same sense of shock/tension that I did in VLR/999. Like discovering dead bodies for the first time, finding bombs, discovering you were Dr Klim in VLR, the Axe/Submarine endings in 999. Nothing really came close, other than finding Junpei's limbs and finally his head in one of the puzzle rooms, but that the shock of that was sadly spoiled as it was seen in a "prominition" earlier, that and you never found out why or how Mira killed him.
All that said, I'm still very glad I got the game and that it happened and I still consider the ZE games a masterpiece.
Ah right good point, just a shame we didn't see it I guess. Was probably the most disturbing death, next to her grabbing Eric's heart. Also don't know where she got the cloak from. I guess her motive for killing was just to get out quicker?
And thanks for letting me know about the files! Had no idea!
Dandy Crocodile
Member
Yeah I guess so, just weird she didn't care about looking at their hearts I guess. I guess some people's hearts just don't interest her.
PurpleMaster
Member
Hey, guys. Done here!
I agree with what most people are saying, it was really good, but it failed a bit as a VLR sequel.
I can forgive that, I'm just glad this game exists, but some things not mentioned irk me.
- Kyle was the worst offender. We were really looking forward to that and dropping that matter was like negating a big chunk of what made VLR important.
- Brother. I was fine with Delta being Zero, being Brother. But it seems like they called him Brother, but removed everything that made him like that. No mention of Left (sorta), no mention of why Radical 6 has these effects, no mention of what his beliefs really are. Dio in VLR was supposed to be sent by Brother to stop Akane's plan. But why, if Brother needed it to succeed, as detailed in ZTD?
If you think about it, the plot would be the same even if Delta WASN'T Brother and wasn't part of a cult.
So, in a sense, they really dropped the Brother part of VLR.
I was really looking forward to that, and if you search on Gfaqs, you can find a lengthy "Brother facts" done by me before release.
- Akane's memory. While Junpei forgot everything, Akane should have too, judging by what she told Sigma in VLR's ending. Oh, well.
There were also some "convenient" retcons.
"Akane, your parents didn't die in a car accident, you were lied to."
"Yes, I had a brother, but he was a step-brother"
What was really genius was Eric.
He was pointless, but was one of the best Red Herrings in the world!
I'm sure there is more, but that's ok for now, I will think about it a little bit more.
EDIT:
Also, did you notice that the Crash keys Twitter revealed all participants except n.4 and we thought they were just ninja'd by Famitsu?
Turns out Participant 4 WASN'T the child with the helmet!
I agree with what most people are saying, it was really good, but it failed a bit as a VLR sequel.
I can forgive that, I'm just glad this game exists, but some things not mentioned irk me.
- Kyle was the worst offender. We were really looking forward to that and dropping that matter was like negating a big chunk of what made VLR important.
- Brother. I was fine with Delta being Zero, being Brother. But it seems like they called him Brother, but removed everything that made him like that. No mention of Left (sorta), no mention of why Radical 6 has these effects, no mention of what his beliefs really are. Dio in VLR was supposed to be sent by Brother to stop Akane's plan. But why, if Brother needed it to succeed, as detailed in ZTD?
If you think about it, the plot would be the same even if Delta WASN'T Brother and wasn't part of a cult.
So, in a sense, they really dropped the Brother part of VLR.
I was really looking forward to that, and if you search on Gfaqs, you can find a lengthy "Brother facts" done by me before release.
- Akane's memory. While Junpei forgot everything, Akane should have too, judging by what she told Sigma in VLR's ending. Oh, well.
There were also some "convenient" retcons.
"Akane, your parents didn't die in a car accident, you were lied to."
"Yes, I had a brother, but he was a step-brother"
What was really genius was Eric.
He was pointless, but was one of the best Red Herrings in the world!
I'm sure there is more, but that's ok for now, I will think about it a little bit more.
EDIT:
Also, did you notice that the Crash keys Twitter revealed all participants except n.4 and we thought they were just ninja'd by Famitsu?
Turns out Participant 4 WASN'T the child with the helmet!
Here are the paths I've taken so far. Line breaks represent jumps.
Coincide -> Decision - Heads or Tails -> Coin Toss: Win -> CQD-END: 1 Payoff
Coin Toss: Lose -> Execution -> Execution: C -> Execution Vote: C -> Vote Q-Team
Execution: Q -> Execution Vote: Q -> Vote C-Team
Execution: D -> Execution Vote: D -> Vote Q-Team
Q-Team Executed
Radical-6 -> BioLab -> Inject Radical 6? -> Don't Inject
Inject Radical 6? -> Inject
FCFS: Q -> Kill Button: Q -> Press the Button -> Press the Button (bad end) <----- OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Kill Button: Q -> Don't press
Suppression-> Healing Room -> "Don't Press" Button decision -> BUT IT'S SO BLUE AND SHINY! (Press the Button) -> Game Over and a lot of laughs.
"Don't Press" Button decision -> Don't press the button -> Don't Press (Game Over)
Suspicion 1 -> Pantry -> Suspcion 2 -> Who Killed Junpei? -> Carlos's Decision (Game Over)
Who Killed Junpei? -> Carlos's Sin
Triangle (1) -> Study -> Triangle (2) -> 3-way standoff -> Don't Shoot (Bad End)
3-way standoff -> Shoot Eric (Q-End: 1)
3-way standoff -> Shoot Mira (Bad end - Game Over)
Pop Off (1) -> Pod Room -> Pop Off (2) -> Who Killed Mira? -> Eric's Rage (bad end - game over)
First Come, First Saved: C -> Kill Button:C -> Press the Button Cinema -> Press the Button 2 (cinema)
Execution Vote: Q -> Vote D Team -> Q-Team Executed (Again)
Execution Vote: C -> Vote D Team -> D--Team Executed (Plaudite, Acta Es Fabula ;_
Execution Vote: D -> Vote C Team -> D-Team Executed (Again. Wut. .... Wait a minute)
Execution Vote: Q -> Vote C Team -> C-Team Executed (Ahaaaaaaaaa.... it remembers! :O)
Coincide -> Decision - Heads or Tails -> Coin Toss: Win -> CQD-END: 1 Payoff
Coin Toss: Lose -> Execution -> Execution: C -> Execution Vote: C -> Vote Q-Team
Execution: Q -> Execution Vote: Q -> Vote C-Team
Execution: D -> Execution Vote: D -> Vote Q-Team
Q-Team Executed
Radical-6 -> BioLab -> Inject Radical 6? -> Don't Inject
Inject Radical 6? -> Inject
FCFS: Q -> Kill Button: Q -> Press the Button -> Press the Button (bad end) <----- OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Kill Button: Q -> Don't press
Suppression-> Healing Room -> "Don't Press" Button decision -> BUT IT'S SO BLUE AND SHINY! (Press the Button) -> Game Over and a lot of laughs.
"Don't Press" Button decision -> Don't press the button -> Don't Press (Game Over)
Suspicion 1 -> Pantry -> Suspcion 2 -> Who Killed Junpei? -> Carlos's Decision (Game Over)
Who Killed Junpei? -> Carlos's Sin
Triangle (1) -> Study -> Triangle (2) -> 3-way standoff -> Don't Shoot (Bad End)
3-way standoff -> Shoot Eric (Q-End: 1)
3-way standoff -> Shoot Mira (Bad end - Game Over)
Pop Off (1) -> Pod Room -> Pop Off (2) -> Who Killed Mira? -> Eric's Rage (bad end - game over)
First Come, First Saved: C -> Kill Button:C -> Press the Button Cinema -> Press the Button 2 (cinema)
Execution Vote: Q -> Vote D Team -> Q-Team Executed (Again)
Execution Vote: C -> Vote D Team -> D--Team Executed (Plaudite, Acta Es Fabula ;_
Execution Vote: D -> Vote C Team -> D-Team Executed (Again. Wut. .... Wait a minute)
Execution Vote: Q -> Vote C Team -> C-Team Executed (Ahaaaaaaaaa.... it remembers! :O)
Finished the game a bit earlier. Don't know how I feel about it. I liked it for the most part, but the ending felt rushed and fell flat.
I think most of my grievances have to do with Delta. He's like a black hole that gathers all the weak plot twists of the game and even some of the previous games of the series.
- You're not playing as who you think you are (1/3rd of the time, maybe???)
(and : you're actually mind hacking people's decisions, maybe???)
- Is actually Sigma and Diana's child (stealing what should have been Phi's exclusive spotlight and doing absolutely nothing with it)
- Is actually Brother too (but doesn't even begin talking about Free the Soul's ethos or goals, so a pointless revelation)
- Placed a fake player in the game (for the third time, but doesn't do anything with it unlike the previous zeroes)
I don't even understand his "complex" motivations. It seems more like a bunch of plots were fused together in a Frankenstein monster, then someone gave it a hat, a steampunk beak mask and taught him some latin sentences.
Another thing I disliked was how consciousness jumping has been rendered mundane. It was supposed to be an incredibly rare power that only Phi and Sigma possessed, and IIRC Junpei and Akane were explicitly stated to be unable to use it in VLR. Now, everybody and their mothers can use it.
I may need to digest it a bit more, but so far I'm a bit sad the series ended on a weaker note like this.
I think most of my grievances have to do with Delta. He's like a black hole that gathers all the weak plot twists of the game and even some of the previous games of the series.
- You're not playing as who you think you are (1/3rd of the time, maybe???)
(and : you're actually mind hacking people's decisions, maybe???)
- Is actually Sigma and Diana's child (stealing what should have been Phi's exclusive spotlight and doing absolutely nothing with it)
- Is actually Brother too (but doesn't even begin talking about Free the Soul's ethos or goals, so a pointless revelation)
- Placed a fake player in the game (for the third time, but doesn't do anything with it unlike the previous zeroes)
I don't even understand his "complex" motivations. It seems more like a bunch of plots were fused together in a Frankenstein monster, then someone gave it a hat, a steampunk beak mask and taught him some latin sentences.
Another thing I disliked was how consciousness jumping has been rendered mundane. It was supposed to be an incredibly rare power that only Phi and Sigma possessed, and IIRC Junpei and Akane were explicitly stated to be unable to use it in VLR. Now, everybody and their mothers can use it.
I may need to digest it a bit more, but so far I'm a bit sad the series ended on a weaker note like this.