• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[SPOILERS] Zero Time Dilemma Spoiler Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Kraatu

Member
Snake has a prosthetic arm. Delta didn't seem to.

Yes, but they cannot be the same exact person. So what I proposed is that at some point Brother cloned himself with the Transporter.
Now he has a younger self of himself, that COULD have lost an arm and a leg.
I just stated that they looked alike and could be related.

DEAR GOD! That would explain even why Snake was so good at perceiving things while being blind. If you are a mind reading esper you can sense by other people's senses. Or something like that.

Just pure tinfoil theory and conjecture. But this ending left me wanting some kind of deeper connection of the story.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oh, I also loved the game's set-up on the ethics of Shifting and time travel in general. It's really well set-up, and I finally understand what Uchikoshi was going for when he said he wanted to challenge the morality of the player. It was about the morality of time travel. It's even a direct part of the very end, and how we don't see the decision the 9 make at the end. It's up to the player to decide if Delta is guilty or not. Really cool stuff.

.

Wasn't he still in charge of Free the Soul? Who also was basically a terrorist organization? The same one that killed Alice's dad. He's definitely guilty of something

Also I like to imagine Akane forgot about Alice and Clover and left them frozen.
 

Eumi

Member
Well I loved it, but reading the first two pages y'all are a bunch of downers.

Delta is the best plot twist in the series. I'd realised early that we were playing as zero watching the whole thing due to the th screen intros and outros, but q being zero and a 10th participant actually makes a bunch of things I'd thought were plot holes make sense. Like how no one ever questioned who Q was on the other teams since they knew him before hand, and there being a fourth option in the standoff in zeros study. Also how whenever you put in a name whilst playing as Sean, q and myself always gave different responses.

Diana, Sigma and Phi's whole part was great. They hinted a but too strongly at Phi being their daughter, but overall it was a nice mid game plot twist, and was greatly helped by how great the whole 10 month scene was.

The alien thing is weird but I honestly don't mind it. It's just a hint at the greater world beyond the plot, the idea that there are infinite universes and in many humans don't exist. Plus it finally ties Alice and All-Ice together since it's now likely that Clover and Alice were sent back via this machine from VLR, putting Alice specifically in the past.

Also there was a nice thematic link between Kyle and Delta. Both are sigmas sons and both play host to ?, who I always saw as just straight up being the player. Maybe that makes the final scene of VLR kind of weird and non canon but I always thought ? was just the player, and them being sent to DCOM was just symbolic of the player moving on to ZTD.

I also just love Delta as a character. The man just wants to create a perfect world. That's why i kinda like the sappy post game files, Akane and Junpei getting married is exactly the cheesy outcome Delta wanted. For all the talk of God and 'the universe God has abandoned', Delta finally succeeds in becoming God and creating his own perfect universe. Everyone lives. Everyone gets together. Mira, Eric and Sean go on wacky, time travel adventures. Clover probably makes it back fine, who knows.

I always saw 999 and VLR as being on equal footing, assuming ZTD would be good since VLR is essentially just a prologue. And I can safely say that ZTD is on that same level.

It's been a hell of a ride.
 

moomoo14

Member
So, going back through some of Q team's scenes, I've started noticing things regarding Delta being there. Partially because some of this was mentioned on a reddit thread.

In the standoff, if you choose to shoot Mira, she fires two shots, one at Sean and one at Delta. You can hear him fall out of his chair.

At several instances in the decontamination room the shadow of Delta's wheelchair can be seen. Once you know about it, it's quite noticeable. It's also there in conversations prior to the vote, but it's less noticeable.

I noticed this earlier and thought it was weird: if you tell Eric that Q shot Mira, he'll say "that's impossible!" Isn't it a bit odd that he would say that if he's blaming Sean of killing her? In addition, if you say Sean did it, then he'll say "I knew it was you."

Prior to the vote, Eric mentions that the vote needs to be determined by the leader. Sean then asks what they should do. Eric then says, "Then we'll just have to use force." He isn't looking at Sean when he says this, though. He's looking off to the side, where Delta is sitting in his chair.

Revisiting cutscenes also made additional things show up. I went to the infirmary to check something that I remembered, and I got a scene where C-team was getting executed by the collars, and then Carlos woke up, as if from a nightmare. Hadn't seen that before.

That thing I was checking on? In the infirmary with C team, the announcer will mention that the members of Q team are diseased. Junpei will say, "How could they... even Q... He couldn't even see, or hear when..." Always thought it was weird, since Sean could perfectly see and hear fine. Makes sense in hindsight; the members would have though Q referred to the old man they got to knew over the five days in DCOM.

Also, ever look at the status screen with the dolls? Everyone will have portraits except for Sean. Instead, a Q will be displayed. I always thought this was weird, since Sean had his own portrait in the library that would correspond.

Edit: Forgot to mention that in the Eric's confusion ending (the one instead of the Delta reveal), when he says "I'LL JUST KILL ALL OF YOU!" he fires 1 too many shots... unless if you account for Delta. (Since he doesn't shoot Gab). There's even blood splatter to the left of Carlos' corpse that seems odd to be there.
 
Speaking of Carlos, I thought having him always pick the right coin flip the first time was a nice touch, considering his ability. (Rather than it being contrived.)
 
Wasn't he still in charge of Free the Soul? Who also was basically a terrorist organization? The same one that killed Alice's dad. He's definitely guilty of something

Also I like to imagine Akane forgot about Alice and Clover and left them frozen.
[Happy End]


Wow the files afterwards were fucking terrible. Were they written by an intern or something, I mean really. The ending JRPG was really dumb too. But I liked the twists in the game.

And I didn't get a epilogue file for Sigma, Phi, and Diana.
 

SephLuis

Member
The "I was engineering my own birth" thing I find already very shaky. What does him being the son of Sigma and Diana bring to the story? They don't even confront him about it! At best, it was to give a reason for his powers, but that wasn't really necessary either.

The objective was always for him and Phi to be born as Sigma/Diana sons in a life-or-death situation to guarantee they would have powers.

They could have used other opportunities and maybe not scare their parent for life, but it would risk them not having powers and not returning to the past. I guess by the time the terrorist would set in motion humanity extinction, they would be just children.

His powers are also left entirely unexplained, in a series that relish smothering its players in pseudoscientific technobabble. His only "drawback" is being unable to shift, but he can read the mind of shifters and learn about the different worlds through them, so it doesn't change a thing anyway.

No power is explained too much. Delta's power is just read anyone minds and control them for a few moments.

As I said before, in my opinion they should have distinguished better all the powers. He can't shift so the he can't escape death like shifters can. It means that quite a couple version of him died and he saw that.

He even mentions in the end, he's not the same Zero that made them pass through those horrible situations. He just made them flip a coin and that's it. He just knows what happened because he read their minds.

In the other sense, everyone that jumped is the same "entity" that went through everything. But the Zero that made that is dead. And the Zero that meets them is different.

The Radical 6 thing was particularly botched in my opinion. Am I supposed to believe that the glorious leader of a cult of religious fanatics that can go head to head with an international effort of secret services and has access to mindreading and future reading powers can't prevent a single fellow religious fanatic from blowing up a bomb? Even if the single dude was part of a bigger group, he could still exceptionally cooperate with the authorities that are also actively using espers.

This is left open because it can be anything really. It's possible that even Delta doesn't know exactly how it happened.

Oh, and he also has access to a quantum computer that can simulate every state of realities at the same time. Including the one where a single dude kickstart a nuclear warfare.

I guess the quantum computer is limited to see realities where it exists. It's possible that the timelines he can see aren't of any use to stop humanity decay.
Honestly, the very definition of quantum computer in this game was news to me. I don't know if there's actually a cientific side to it that would, theoretically, access all states in one time.

I also just love Delta as a character. The man just wants to create a perfect world. That's why i kinda like the sappy post game files, Akane and Junpei getting married is exactly the cheesy outcome Delta wanted. For all the talk of God and 'the universe God has abandoned', Delta finally succeeds in becoming God and creating his own perfect universe. Everyone lives. Everyone gets together. Mira, Eric and Sean go on wacky, time travel adventures. Clover probably makes it back fine, who knows.

I also liked the character , but I got to the opposite conclusion of you. Delta is smart and powerful enough to manipulate entire timelines and even create new ones that wouldn't be possible.

To me , the end was him calling it quits. He tried everything and his last resort would be Radical-6. Doesn't matter if he lives or dies after that point, because the ones who will shape the next timelines will be the nine.

His last words: "This is the Decision Game" I found very powerful. Because it's based on the manipulation of decisions that he got to that point and that would be the first he wouldn't do that and would leave for the nine people to decide. Even putting his own life on the life for it. There they could create two timelines: Delta is shot and Delta is not shot.
The files also point that Mira, Eric and Sean will make a bigger mess out of this too.
 
Was replaying part of ZTD last night (wanted to see how fast you can skip to the final ending from the beginning, 3 hours in case anyone is wondering), and I noticed this small little foreshadowing of the Delta/Q twist.

When D-team wakes up they're banging on the X-door, and Phi makes a joke about the acoustic properties of the door, to which we hear a short yet deep-ish laugh that's quick and quiet enough to not raise any eyebrows. I certainly didn't notice the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7f77EAsYDQ

Basically, it references how Delta is watching everything on camera from the player's view, and possibly overestimates his sister's humor like any good brother would. I'm near 100% positive that isn't Sigma's laugh, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Also, off-topic tangent: Youtube takes forever to process stream highlights. I tried it out in lieu of twitch, and while the auto-archive, quality options, and an actual reasonable allowable bitrate is great (no Twitch, 3300 kpbs is not enough), the processing times are insane. My one minute clip where Sigma says Phi's "pants are on fire" is still being processed after 7 hours.
 
After the whole "grandpa" thing from VLR (I've heard a number of people saying they figured out the twist because of that) I can see why Uchikoshi went for more subtle clues this time. But it seems like people just don't appreciate it.
 

Gvitor

Member
Yeah, some twists have different levels of foreshadowing. While I really loved it, the whole Phi being Sigma and Diana's daughter I saw coming from a mile away, but the Delta one had me completely by surprise.
 

DNAbro

Member
I doubt many people figured it out ahead of time. As said it's ridiculously subtle.

And I just want confirmation, Mira and Eric never say Sean's name until Sean makes mention of Delta or shoots Delta right? That was my biggest problem with the twist. It felt too convenient.
 
I doubt many people figured it out ahead of time. As said it's ridiculously subtle.

And I just want confirmation, Mira and Eric never say Sean's name until Sean makes mention of Delta or shoots Delta right? That was my biggest problem with the twist. It felt too convenient.

Yes, it's confirmed in the cinema files, which seems to hold up based on what I've replayed:

ah i should've read the files

tM18WkZ.png
 

DNAbro

Member
Yes, it's confirmed in the cinema files, which seems to hold up based on what I've replayed:

That is not exactly what I'm saying. Every time Sean is spoken to, it is "kid", "brat", "you", and then when Sean points out Delta, that was the first time I remember them saying Sean. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Also as another thought, in the Radical 6/FBR test tube vials. Were they okay with just not giving Delta/Q a vial? There were only 3 from my memory .
 
That is not exactly what I'm saying. Every time Sean is spoken to, it is "kid", "brat", "you", and then when Sean points out Delta, that was the first time I remember them saying Sean. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Also as another thought, in the Radical 6/FBR test tube vials. Were they okay with just not giving Delta/Q a vial? There were only 3 from my memory .
Q didn't get injected with anything during the puzzle room.
 
After the whole "grandpa" thing from VLR (I've heard a number of people saying they figured out the twist because of that) I can see why Uchikoshi went for more subtle clues this time. But it seems like people just don't appreciate it.

I'm thinking maybe they should have made more clues, even if it became more obvious (not always a bad thing, Phi's parents is still a good twist even if it's predictable after all). I like the delta twist more than I don't like it, at the very least i really like the concept of Phi's brother being zero/Brother, and being the player's view in ZTD. My gripe is how they executed it. It comes a bit out of nowhere, and Delta is a bit of a stereotypical ego boasting villain for my taste (despite the fantastic VA). The mind hacking is a bit much too... Had they foreshadowed it more, it would have made Q-team's story (arguably the weakest as is) a lot more interesting.

But like I said, overall I like the twist and love the game, but I understand some of the criticisms. I'm much more in the "loved it" camp though, as few as we may be.
 

moomoo14

Member
Was replaying part of ZTD last night (wanted to see how fast you can skip to the final ending from the beginning, 3 hours in case anyone is wondering), and I noticed this small little foreshadowing of the Delta/Q twist.

When D-team wakes up they're banging on the X-door, and Phi makes a joke about the acoustic properties of the door, to which we hear a short yet deep-ish laugh that's quick and quiet enough to not raise any eyebrows. I certainly didn't notice the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7f77EAsYDQ

Basically, it references how Delta is watching everything on camera from the player's view, and possibly overestimates his sister's humor like any good brother would. I'm near 100% positive that isn't Sigma's laugh, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Nice catch! I didn't notice that one at all. Definitely sounds like Delta, not Sigma. It not being in the subtitles for seeing in the log definitely lends credence to that, as well.
 
I missed some of the notes from escape rooms and went back to get those to get the platinum.

Forgot to check. Is there a epilogue file for D team?
 

JerkShep

Member
I don't know what to think of it or how to elaborate my feelings about the game lol. I'm sort of in shock. I think I liked the general idea behind things but I felt the execution was lacking, especially towards the end.There were a lot of misteps that could simply be avoided by changing few sentences in the script. Like the ALIEN stuff could have been handled A LOT better by being more vague, it's not like there isn't already a lot of crazy technology in this universe. Some of the final dialogues (and I'm not even touching the fanfiction files) are REALLY on the nose. In my head-canon, when Delta says that he did it all to create 9 people that could change the future I imagine him saying it sarcastically, parodying a bit what Akane did throughout the series.

Like, I think in the end they sort of wanted to make you reflect on some of the fucked up stuff that the main characters did to reach this final point. And it would have been great. But that got mixed up with some JRPGs bullshit "we can change the future". The ending should have been way more bleak in this perspective.

There are stuff I really really liked about the game, but it could have been truly a thing to remember if only it'd have had a bit more nuance.
 
I seem to recall Sigma specifically mentioning Kyle one single time in this game, but I can't recall where...
I believe it was in a Game Over when he is dying and talks about what he won't be able to do in the future (he refers to Diana as Luna in this instance, and mentions Kyle).

I have just finished it and I mostly enjoyed it. I didn't really like how the whole "past" history was dropped. They repeat it many many times during the game and then nothing. The ending in general, as many others said, felt a bit rushed.
Also, I was totally expecting some "secret" ending D:

Another minor thing: in the end did we ever learn anything more about Quark? He was just this random kid (or a young Left clone)? He had some weird abilities, so I thought they would have said something in ZTD.
 

SephLuis

Member
I'm thinking maybe they should have made more clues, even if it became more obvious (not always a bad thing, Phi's parents is still a good twist even if it's predictable after all). I like the delta twist more than I don't like it, at the very least i really like the concept of Phi's brother being zero/Brother, and being the player's view in ZTD.My gripe is how they executed it. It comes a bit out of nowhere, and Delta is a bit of a stereotypical ego boasting villain for my taste (despite the fantastic VA). The mind hacking is a bit much too... Had they foreshadowed it more, it would have made Q-team's story (arguably the weakest as is) a lot more interesting.

But like I said, overall I like the twist and love the game, but I understand some of the criticisms. I'm much more in the "loved it" camp though, as few as we may be.

First time I saw Delta, I immediately thought he was a look alike with Anthony Hopkins. Guess that ended up making the character much better since Hopkins plays a lot of these type of villains.
 

LProtag

Member
I enjoyed it. I'm not sure if they made the whole "You are Zero" thing quite as obvious, or at least, it didn't quite have the impact that it could have, I think.

I guess the most disappointing thing is that they didn't loop Kyle and ? into this at all.
 

saturnine

Member
The objective was always for him and Phi to be born as Sigma/Diana sons in a life-or-death situation to guarantee they would have powers.

They could have used other opportunities and maybe not scare their parent for life, but it would risk them not having powers and not returning to the past. I guess by the time the terrorist would set in motion humanity extinction, they would be just children.
You misunderstood me : I get the reasons the game gives for his actions, I'm just saying that they were unnecessary.

How different would the story have been if Delta was actually a random old guy with mindhacking powers that was born in the early 20th century?

Sigma and Diana would still have been left stranded in an alternate history, they would still have had a child, they would still have sent her back in time to avoid starvation. (By the way, the fact that Phi was sent to 1904 first and then to 2008 also seems pointless. 1904 Phi has no influence or importance to the story, she should as well have been cut.)

The whole "parents in danger = children with power" also feels like an ass pull. At no point in the series was it established as a necessity. The cast is full of people with powers developed without influence from their parents. Hell, Carlos's sister is one of the numerous humans to develop powers in anticipation to the Radical-6 outbreak out of the blue. No genetic manipulation necessary.

Absolutely nothing would have changed if Delta wasn't their child. Everything would have happened the same way. These informations are completely superfluous and do not inform his character in any way.

No power is explained too much. Delta's power is just read anyone minds and control them for a few moments.

As I said before, in my opinion they should have distinguished better all the powers. He can't shift so the he can't escape death like shifters can. It means that quite a couple version of him died and he saw that.

He even mentions in the end, he's not the same Zero that made them pass through those horrible situations. He just made them flip a coin and that's it. He just knows what happened because he read their minds.

In the other sense, everyone that jumped is the same "entity" that went through everything. But the Zero that made that is dead. And the Zero that meets them is different.

But they are. Junpei and Akane could access the morphogenic field to respectively send and receive information. Sigma and Phi could shift timelines by sending their entire consciousness in the morphogenic field and "downloading" it in another version of themselves.

Delta can read people's mind by...? And can momentarily control them by...?

We could start conjecturing and tentatively explain them by saying that he can force people to broadcast their thoughts to the morphogenic field and then receive them in full, and that he can force people to receive "instructions". But that's a bit bullshit. We shouldn't have to start theorizing how the powers of the main antagonist of the series actually work.

And like I said, his actions would barely be different if he actually was a shifter. The whole point of stating that he can't actually shift is to throw a curveball at the very end of the game, with him claiming "I didn't do anything wrong, I'm not guilty. It was another me." Which is completely bullshit, because he's the leader of a fucking terrorist organization. He's responsible for the death of Alice's father and the nonary games before 999.

It's a very weak payoff for what amounts to breaking the rules of how espers work and creating an entirely new set of powers.

I agree with you in that they should have segregated the different kinds of esper powers better, but in the case of Delta, they should have also spent more time exploring them and their potential.

In ZTD, what did his powers actually did? He forced some people's decisions (despite being dead in some of these timelines)?
Sigma was already experiencing this kind of things in VLR, acting against his own common sense. Didn't need no mind controlling fake tetraplegic at the time.

Once again, that's just the excuse for a weak twist. You were not actually controlling the three team leaders. You were controlling Zero controlling them. Except when you weren't. Or something.

This is left open because it can be anything really. It's possible that even Delta doesn't know exactly how it happened.

I guess the quantum computer is limited to see realities where it exists. It's possible that the timelines he can see aren't of any use to stop humanity decay.
Honestly, the very definition of quantum computer in this game was news to me. I don't know if there's actually a cientific side to it that would, theoretically, access all states in one time.

Quantum computing is entirely theoretical so far, so any application in science fiction is very much a case of "magic science" doing whatever the writer needs it to.

In the case of ZTD, IIRC Sean is explicitly said to be able to access any possible state of reality. You could argue that he would need to access a universe where he already exists, but that shouldn't be an issue in the case of the fanatical bomber.

In any way, the whole "I released Radical-6 to prevent human extinction" feels like a ridiculous asspull because they needed Zero to be somewhat benevolent. Which is bullshit because, like I said earlier, he's the leader of a terrorist organization that wants to "cleanse the world".

So, three possibilities. Either Delta was :

- A mastermind playing an incredibly long con, spanning over a century of manipulation, parallel world fuckery, murder, genetic manipulation, fanatical indoctrination and genocide to achieve a "good end" (by way of power of friendship or something).
- The most inept illuminati that ever lived, being unable to stop a single man despite, I reiterate, having access to mind reading powers, future reading powers, quantum computing, and the support of one of the world's biggest terrorist organization, with members within a wealthy elite (nonary games).
- A poorly written character.

And I want to be clear : until the Delta reveal, I was thoroughly enjoying the game. I still like it. It's just that everything after that point turned really sour for me.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Who is the religious fanatic? That's the most important question.

Too bad this is the last Zero Escape game, ah well. Now time for Danganronpa 3.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Zero gave Sigma and Akane a Free the Soul robe and told them to meet him in the past at one of their meetings and that it was "inevitable" they'd come...and then it was never mentioned again.
 

LProtag

Member
In terms of looking at the series as a whole, here's how I consider each game:

999 certainly had the most emotional impact of the series, in my opinion. It had a fairly simple setup, as far as the rest of the series, and was quite effective in getting you to really care for the characters and build up to the ending.

VLR probably had the best twists and general plot structure of all the games. I think the story was the most solid.

ZTD for me was the best execution of the concepts the games were reaching for. Especially with the fragment system and the timeline stretching out later, and with jumping around to multiple timelines while remaining on a single path.
 
Who is the religious fanatic? That's the most important question.

Too bad this is the last Zero Escape game, ah well. Now time for Danganronpa 3.

What I want to know is how Delta knows that a religious fanatic caused all of humanity to go extinct, but didn't know who it was. He'd need to read the info from a shifter, since he can't shift himself, but any shifter coming back with that knowledge had to do so before they died. In other words, before humanity went extinct. I guess maybe not everyone died at once, and maybe he read it from someone who was that last living person or something, but it still seems odd that he knew the details to that extent, but not who.
 

redhood56

Banned
Zero gave Sigma and Akane a Free the Soul robe and told them to meet him in the past at one of their meetings and that it was "inevitable" they'd come...and then it was never mentioned again.
Well Akane was wearing the robe when she meet Sigma at the end of VLR.
But I really enjoyed this game, it had its issues though. I kind of didn't like the whole "you are Zero" thing but my mind was blown when I found out phi was sigmas daughter. The soundtrack again was excellent. I am totally fine with this being the last one, except WHAT THE HELL HAPPENS TO KYLE. I would like to see Uchikoshi tackle a new series, and that would be great. I liked that the ending wasn't happy, it turns out free the soul isn't totally bad, they killed 6 billion to save 2 billion. All in all, I am really excited to see what Uchikoshi does next, whether it be in the zero escape universe or not.
 

saturnine

Member
What I want to know is how Delta knows that a religious fanatic caused all of humanity to go extinct, but didn't know who it was. He'd need to read the info from a shifter, since he can't shift himself, but any shifter coming back with that knowledge had to do so before they died. In other words, before humanity went extinct. I guess maybe not everyone died at once, and maybe he read it from someone who was that last living person or something, but it still seems odd that he knew the details to that extent, but not who.

He didn't necessarily have to read a shifter's mind. Could have been an esper like Akane, with the power to see the future through the morphogenic field. At least that would have been my answer, but nowadays everyone's a shifter it seems.
 

Bogeypop

Member
I think the biggest relief I have after finishing the game is Uchikoshi didn't just pull a straight up "Blick Winkel" again, but gave it a sort of different spin at least with "Q".

However, I was definitely not a fan of the alien Transporter deus ex machina/contrivance except for explaining Phi and Delta's existence which was my favorite part of the game, as well as D-END: 1 which made me tear up a bit. D-Team were definitely the stars of the show for me, whereas C-Team and Q-Team felt flat or unnecessary at times.

Carlos was the ace of C-Team while Akane, who should have been an important character based on her roles in 999 and VLR, felt she was simply there for exposition or to give Junpei motivation.

Q-Team was the worst of the trio with each character's role easily explained by their X-Pass: EYE, KILL, FOOL.

I also had a nice guffaw when "Mind Jack" was mentioned. Carlos pointing the gun at Delta, and then fade to credits only to have to reload your save to get the actual ending in files was my biggest gripe apart from many things from Uchikoshi's VLR Q&A that he said would be answered in ZTD not being answered. If I had to rank the series I would make an analogy to the original Star Wars series with 999 being A New Hope, VLR is Empire Strikes Back, and ZTD is Return of the Jedi

My only hope is this "terrorist" not having been caught means a Zero Escape 4 is possible or at the very least maybe the Ace prequel Uchikoshi said he wishes to work on comes true and sheds some light on things.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I'm honestly incredibly pleased with the way this game's ending panned out. What I hoped for most was for the game to surprise me greatly (it did), provide a conclusive ending (it did) but still leave the world itself "open" moving onward (it did).

While for a while it definitely looked like ZTD was going to head down the path of a much more villainous front, I really appreciate how the game instead structures it's endgame as making the concept of time travel/universe hopping come full circle. It's an ending that made me think more than it did make me hope for the team to bust some bad guy, and it's an ending I can swallow a LOT easier than VLR's ending which basically ended the game with "see you in the next game, guys!"

In a way Delta is kind of a perfect "villain" for this series which has nothing but complex villains. He represents pretty much every single repercussion you get from tampering with the inevitability of fate. He's the kind of villain who looks onto the entire premise of Zero Escape and says "you're a hypocrite for even doing half of the things you're meant to do, even if you have to do them". It's almost a bit reminiscent of Undertale in how the game often critiques you for the way you treat it's own mechanics. I really, really love that about him and the way they reveal him was clever in and of itself.

This game was never going to have a simple ending but I really like what we got, and the game was an insane ride from start to finish.

No way this is the last ZE game


also

Want to laugh?
Want to cry?
Well do I have a wiki article for you! http://zeroescape.wikia.com/wiki/?

;____;

OUR EXPECTATIONS WERE DESTROYED

In the end it literally was just a player stand-in.

So technically ? is in the game. It's you.
 

Soulflarz

Banned
In the end it literally was just a player stand-in.

So technically ? is in the game. It's you.

Yes

but they completely removed this for ZTD

You can say 'the player has agency'. You can set it up for in the sequel. However, when you replace the agency with "by the way delta did it" you've removed '?' as a character

Blick Winkel twist was replaced with a Delta twist. It works in ZTD but completely negates his whole scene in VLR and makes him the most negligible thing in the series- he exists, but who cares.


What I'm saying is Blick Winkel was a character with purpose but this was completely removed for his only reference being "oh yeah, it's a VN and you have agency", which isn't the same at all.
 

RetroMG

Member
Zero gave Sigma and Akane a Free the Soul robe and told them to meet him in the past at one of their meetings and that it was "inevitable" they'd come...and then it was never mentioned again.

I really thought that we were going to see this, and I'm really bummed that we didn't.
 

Fluxdyne

Member
I wasn't aware there was a spoiler thread for this already.
This is kinda silly, but I asked this in OT but no one replied.
Why did Zero kill Gab? Why did he show the dead dog to the everybody? Is there a reason?
 

NotLiquid

Member
Yes

but they completely removed this for ZTD

You can say 'the player has agency'
You can set it up for in the sequel

but when you replace the agency with "by the way delta did it" you've removed '?' as a character

Blick Winkel twist was replaced with a Delta twist. It works in ZTD but completely negates his whole scene in VLR and makes him the most negligible thing in the series- he exists, but who cares.

I dunno. The moment we started getting wind that ? was meant to literally be the player I started losing a lot of faith in that any "twist" with him would be satisfying. At this point I just treat VLR's bonus ending as something of a "where are they now" epilogue with a *wink-wink joke* in it. I had already feared too much that Zero Escape was going to go down the road of turning the player into an actual "character" to justify itself and that would be even more lame than the end result is. Shit, when Delta was revealed to the camera that's what I actually thought was going to happen for a moment but instead it turned out more clever than I expected.

I feel if there's anything to complain about, complain about K getting robbed of his role. I don't see why they couldn't just have said that K was inhabiting Sean, which would explain his autonomous behavior more.

Zero gave Sigma and Akane a Free the Soul robe and told them to meet him in the past at one of their meetings and that it was "inevitable" they'd come...and then it was never mentioned again.

That scene was before Akane/Junpei resurfaced and Akane decided to dedicate her life to the AB project, so I just treated it as Akane going there to find out what they're actually dealing with.
 

Soulflarz

Banned
I wasn't aware there was a spoiler thread for this already.
This is kinda silly, but I asked this in OT but no one replied.
Why did Zero kill Gab? Why did he show the dead dog to the everybody? Is there a reason?

his reasons for killing the dog are, as they say....complex

Shit, when Delta was revealed to the camera that's what I actually thought was going to happen for a moment but instead it turned out more clever than I expected.
Two sides of the same coin
I felt VLR was pushing it with old Sigma but it was still relatively doable.

An extra character that gets mentioned once in a whole of 15 hours? Blind deaf and dumb or not, this is what we label as a contrivance. Just like the silly snail. It's not good writing, it's just not believable at all that someone is sitting there 15hr and no one so much as looks at or mentions him besides offhand as if he was a past character.

Especially since I assumed every time they said "a force made me do it" they meant us. Mind hacking is a just drawn from thin air and isn't even set up like the morphogenetic field twist, since the series already has you assume its Blick Winkel doing it. It's not a red herring when the second game confirmed the idea in the ending, it's just changing your original idea for something else and then doing an 'I told you so!'.
 
Top Bottom