James Doohan hated him too. Really, it's hard to find a TOS actor who actually got along with Shatner.
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Star Trek: Discovery |OT| To Boldly Stream Where No One Has Streamed Before
- Thread starter berzeli
- Start date
James Doohan hated him too. Really, it's hard to find a TOS actor who actually got along with Shatner.
I'm back from hours of melting down over the closure of Visceral Studios and death of Amy Hennig's Star Wars game. I swear I made a deal with the devil in my sleep at some point and sacrificed everything I love about gaming to get Star Trek back, so please try very hard to love and accept Discovery, everybody. For my sake.
I'm going to post my review of "Choose Your Pain" here sometime tonight or tomorrow. I wrote a fair bit. I liked it, though! Had issues, but. That's kind of par for the course for me so far. Good, not great. Still, it's better five hours in than most Trek shows are in their entire first seasons, IMO.
I finished Desperate Hours last night. Decent book. I have a hard time with most Trek lit I've attempted to read; something about it always makes me wish I was just watching instead of reading. Doesn't translate well in my mind. That aside, though, this was pretty fun.
I'm going to post my review of "Choose Your Pain" here sometime tonight or tomorrow. I wrote a fair bit. I liked it, though! Had issues, but. That's kind of par for the course for me so far. Good, not great. Still, it's better five hours in than most Trek shows are in their entire first seasons, IMO.
I finished Desperate Hours last night. Decent book. I have a hard time with most Trek lit I've attempted to read; something about it always makes me wish I was just watching instead of reading. Doesn't translate well in my mind. That aside, though, this was pretty fun.
Chiaroscuro
Member
It caught the others off guard in that scene off guard too, which people seem to gloss over. It was used for effect, and to break a barrier a bit so they can not be restricted in the future. I love Star Trek, but the TNG Roddenberry era introduced so many odd rules and ideas that that caused shows like VOY and ENT to stagnate. Only DS9 was left to it's own devices to be a little different. Mostly due to Paramount ignoring it.
It's also not out of character for a Trek show to swear. The first use of "hell" as a curse word was none other than Star Trek. At the end of 1967's 'The City on the Edge of Forever", Kirk, full of guilt over letting Edith Keeler die, just wanted to get off that planet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnViskuZrJk
Seems silly now, but it was forbidden on TV for decades. Even during the airing many network affiliates refused to air the show, or edited to end earlier.
Mr. Pointy
Member
My favorite Crazy Roddenberry is the one about Tracy Torme pitching a TNG story idea called "Genius Is Pain" to a high as fuck Gene, and Gene going on this giant loop about the pain of genius and then ending with "pleasure is waves and waves of cum shooting out of me."
paplikaplik
Member
One of my favorite Roddenberry quirks was that he was always sending notes to the movie production teams to have Spock be the rumored "Man on the Grassy Knoll" during the Kennedy assassination, with Spock delivering the death blow. They humored him, but once he learned Star Trek IV was a time travel movie, he apparently went into overdrive and pestered everyone with the idea until they basically told him to bugger off.
It's a factoid that pops-up in the Trek memoirs that came out in the '90s. I'm pretty sure it's mentioned for sure in I Am Spock and I think one of Shatner's books.
There are a bunch of books about Roddenberry's antics and crazy ideas. The best Inside Star Trek: The Real Story by Herbert Solow and Robert Justman. It was one of the first to bust some of the Roddenberry myths, and fans went ape shit. Some of the more controversial stuff is now considered to be obvious and not really unknown, but at the time, yikes, Fans did not want to hear it.
The worst of all of this, was the marginalization of the 'other' Gene. Gene Coon was a huge part of Trek creation, and mythos. Most of what people consider the genius of Gene Roddenberry can be attributed to Coon and the huge group of professional sci fi authors and talent that was brought to the production. Yet after TOS, many saw the story of Roddenberry as easy to absorb and sell, and Coon's contributions were swept under the rug to make way for 'the great bird of the galaxy'.
Mr. Pointy
Member
It's interesting that if you added up the amount of on-screen Trek that was under Roddenberry's direct control, it's basically only, what, 2 seasons of TOS, TAS, the first movie and 1.5 to 2 seasons of TNG.
I imagine I'll get around to watching all regardless.
I mean, if it starts to really suck I'll skip to S3.
I had to do a double take when I read that earlier. F'in EA strikes again. Sucks.
And, I know people aren't gonna like this, but a collection of the worst stuff Star Trek has to offer in general. He gave us the rough idea, and it was a great idea, but that's all, but we've done better things with it since.
I think Discovery is a badly written show with some strong ideas, but I'm all for forging ahead with the concept. I don't think ahead is equivalent to 'get r rated' though.
The best / worse part of the last episode was discovering that English spoken with a Klingon accent sounds exactly like Groundskeeper Willie.
I think TOS makes up for any of Roddenberrys shortcomings with the first couple seasons of TNG and the first film. (Never saw TAS so cant comment on its quality.) I like the first movie, but its obvious they were pushing for that 2001 sci-fi prestige instead of zeroing in on what made the original series so great, its characters. My favorite bits of Star Trek, however, were under the care of different people, of course, but TOS is pretty damn great.
There is no one person responsible for any rise or fall of Star Trek at this point. It's a collection of ideas that took hold. I can see how some folks might look at that and think 'now that's a franchise', but it actually isn't. The ideas are supposed to be beyond this mundane life. That's why we like it, and that's why it can disappoint us to much.
GodParticle
Member
Only up to the 4th episode, but this show is pretty awful. The characters are mostly terrible(thank god bitchy security lady is gone), with no chemistry
Oh yeah, and the klingons. So annoying to listen to. They all sound like they're trying to talk through masks
Oh yeah, and the klingons. So annoying to listen to. They all sound like they're trying to talk through masks
Himynameischris
Member
Well...
Edit: I agree though I hope they drop the klingon talk soon.
I watched Beyond this past weekend and I liked how they did the translation on there. They had the girl speak in her language and the translator spoke over her telling them what she was saying. They should have used something like that.
Yeah I just watched it too
I want to hang out with Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes
They really didn't do that character justice, but even if they had, I'm guessing you would've wanted her to smile more or something
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Still, from Star Trek TNG it was quite consistent and even in TOS it was true most of the time that the characters used quite a formal, precise and clear language, whereas Discovery now is more rough in its language, not only in terms of using swear words, but also in terms of pronounciation. I do not appreciate this change at all.
The current episode was OK, but I still feel that the show is too superficial and feels more like a pure entertainment drama series than one dealing with societal and ethical issues. It is still early, true, but on the other hand the first season is quite short and therefore I would expect more discussion and abstract themes by now. Especially since the rival series by a comedy writer (!), Orville, does this a lot better. It is really strange to have two new science fiction series, one of them Star Trek in name, the other much more Star Trek in execution.
Takei, Nichols and Doohan all vastly overestimated their importance primarily because during the 70s fans started to blow sugar up their asses and treated them like Trek royalty, that was when the myth of the crew as a family started and Shatners only crime was that during the production of the show he didn't treat them like equals, which they weren't!
I think many people often forget that TOS was not an ensemble show, its main cast consisted of Shatner and Nimoy in the first season, Kelley got a promotion for the second season. That's it, three main characters with Shatner being the star of the show.
If I remember correctly James Doohan and Grace Lee Whitney actually got contracts for a number of episodes (not all of them though) but Takei and Nichols were dayplayers, if they were available they appeared on the show, if they had another job that week a random actor was put in their seat and got their lines, that's how important they were i.e. not very much if no one bothered to secure their availability.
Out of them Grace Lee Whitney was acrually the one who got screwed over (not by Shatner though), Rand was originally supposed to have a bigger part, she even appeared in early promo pictures with Shatner and Nimoy (waering pants!).
Shatner acted like the star of the show and didn't really give them the time of the day, so what? I don't even remember him ever saying a bad word about them, his stanced always seemed to be "I barely knew them, they were there on some days and not on others", the feud seems to be completely one sided and I'm ready for Takei and Nichols to shut the fuck up, it was not Shatner's mission to ruin their time on Star Trek and considering they're still making money with convention appearances decades later it wasn't such a bad deal.
Walter Koenig was in the same position but he's not part of the bash Shatner club. He made some comments and of course Shatner wasn't perfect (nobody is) but he generally seems to appreciate his time on the show and the opportunities he got out of it.
Yea Takei and Nichols were background characters really, even in the movies where the cast came in together more as a crew.
Shatter and Nimoy were equals, while Kelley was up there as they all got a lot of screen time. Though it's no secret that it grated Shatter to have Nimoy as his equal in terms of popularity , salary and such as he wanted himself to be the star of the show. And apparently he also used to hog screen time from others by having the camera focus on his facial reactions instead of the cast when they wanted to say something in a scene.
Shatter and Nimoy were equals, while Kelley was up there as they all got a lot of screen time. Though it's no secret that it grated Shatter to have Nimoy as his equal in terms of popularity , salary and such as he wanted himself to be the star of the show. And apparently he also used to hog screen time from others by having the camera focus on his facial reactions instead of the cast when they wanted to say something in a scene.
Captain Skeleton
Member
Shatner also took lines away from Nichols.
Spectromixer
Member
Rewatched the first five episodes this week. Is Keyla, the other redheaded who was aboard the Shenzou, the only other character who has been in all five episodes?
ManDudeChild
Member
That wouldn't make sense given The Borg was using that network for centuries. Also, the only reason The Borg didn't hit Earth sooner is they weren't aware. Though that even gets a bit messy given First Contact and that episode of Enterprise.
I think that might be the case. I wonder when the show or if the show is ever going to have her come face to face with Michael again.
LordRaptor
Member
I'm liking this show for what it is.
I don't think its "Star Trek" with that fairly unique Tomorrowland-style optimism for the future, and it seems to be going the extra mile to say "This ain't your daddys star trek for nerds!" which... I'm pretty sure is an intentional thing to drop some perceived stigma.
But its a good enough watch that I enjoy it on its own merits and would even without a Star Trek branding attached, which I think is probably best case scenario for a new show.
I don't think its "Star Trek" with that fairly unique Tomorrowland-style optimism for the future, and it seems to be going the extra mile to say "This ain't your daddys star trek for nerds!" which... I'm pretty sure is an intentional thing to drop some perceived stigma.
But its a good enough watch that I enjoy it on its own merits and would even without a Star Trek branding attached, which I think is probably best case scenario for a new show.
chrominance
Member
It seems really weird to me to have the character come back and even be a show regular (albeit with a small role) and NOT have her eventually interact with Michael. They could've just as easily put someone else for the ops/helm role and no one would have noticed random woman from the Shenzhou isn't there. In some ways it's actually more plausible if they do so--how did Discovery, out of all the ships in the fleet, pick up TWO officers from the Shenzhou before Burnham's arrival?
Twist: she's Saru's wife.
Red Arremer
Member
They have interacted very briefly in the episode Burnham came onto the ship, but the other officer simply just looked away upon realizing who she was talking to.
Preview for episode 6 ("Lethe") is up.
https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/920665911744380928 - for US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGIqotm5K4c - not the official youtube channel
https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/920665911744380928 - for US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGIqotm5K4c - not the official youtube channel
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Looks great, cant wait.
"Sarek might be dying"
Except he won't, cause he lives for the next 100 years.
Also that cross galaxy mind meld makes Michael collapse when Sarek is unwell?
Gotta be annoying.
muzzymate
Member
There are actually people out there that don't. Door is still open for them to go all new timeline on us and pull what they did in the first reboot film. Doubt it though.
I'm really curious where this leads. I think with this episode we might be done with the footage from the trailers. The last few shots that were remaining I think were in this preview.
Thanks for posting these.
Spectromixer
Member
Episode 9
Finn of Ooo
Member
Does it have any effect on Picard when Sarek dies?
ladyluthien
Member
I was waiting for this. Thanks!
DangerMouse
Member
Himynameischris
Member
Finally!
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I thought the DISCO shirts were just a merch thing, but Michael is rocking one in that preview.
I wonder what the deal is with Lorca's eyes. Before I thought it might be something that was troublesome to correct, but now it sounds like he's just reluctant for some reason. Maybe he's punishing himself?
I wonder what the deal is with Lorca's eyes. Before I thought it might be something that was troublesome to correct, but now it sounds like he's just reluctant for some reason. Maybe he's punishing himself?
GodParticle
Member
JonnyDBrit
Member
Wouldn't be surprised if people were claiming it was an alternate reality right up until the final freaking episode.
Really? I thought they were two very different characters. At the very least, Tory wasn't even remotely as aggressive as Landry was.