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Star Trek: Discovery |OT| To Boldly Stream Where No One Has Streamed Before

C

CloudyTuba

Member
ivysaur12 said:
Long story short: We had the asset from when he was Ephraim and we had to use him because it was so expensive to create.

There's obviously more to it, but we had already been doing a lot with Tardigrades.
Click to expand...

I see. I didn't know that name but I found more info online. I hand't read the story before. Posting elaboration for others:

"In the original conception, the tardigrade was one of the bridge crew members...It was going to be like you come in and there was Mary and there was Shazad and then there is Ephraim [named for the first zoologist to observe tardigrades]. It would have been really cool because he would have just been there."

Kurtzman went on to say that in the end they ”just couldn't pull it off." Harberts also revealed that the idea was to have the tardigrade character as a member of the bridge crew and it got as far as them building a puppet for the character to be use on set.
Click to expand...
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
sammex said:
The tardigrade being a crew member was real? I thought that was a joke!
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Nope, was going to be a combination of practical and CGI. It didn't work because it was way too expensive, but we had the CGI asset that we figured we could reuse for the spore drive story because Ephraim already had a purpose in the mycelium story (with the DNA stuff they talked about in 105) and it made sense.

Obviously there's more to it and this is vague, but like, it's not because of some videogame lol.
 
S

Spectromixer

Member
ivysaur12 said:
Nope, was going to be a combination of practical and CGI. It didn't work because it was way too expensive, but we had the CGI asset that we figured we could reuse for the spore drive story because Ephraim already had a purpose in the mycelium story (with the DNA stuff they talked about in 105) and it made sense.

Obviously there's more to it and this is vague, but like, it's not because of some videogame lol.
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So was a lot of the mycelium stuff Fuller's idea? Because I know Hannibal had that mushroom episode.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
Oh btw did you guys notice the two handed Star Trek punch is back.

I guess there really is no question that this is prime timeline (since it was absent in the movies).
 
N

Not

Banned
aHebrewMenagerie said:
Seems like the consensus is that STD ripped off this guys game?
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Dude, you can't just create a consensus by saying "seems like the consensus is..."

nOoblet16 said:
Oh btw did you guys notice the two handed Star Trek punch is back.

I guess there really is no question that this is prime timeline (since it was absent in the movies).
Click to expand...

I was waiting for it. Felt a rush when Lorca made it actually look like it hurt for the first time

Hooray for advances in television fight choreography!
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
LewieP said:
This is a bit of an odd one.
http://anas-tronaut.blogspot.com/2017/10/star-trek-discovery-tardigrades.html

There's no actual allegation of plagarism, but it seems like a very big coincidence otherwise.
Click to expand...

  • Tardrigrades used for space travel
  • Depiction of a human being inside a tardgridae to depict symbiosis
  • One of the main lead characters being a black female
  • Gay couple with similar physical characteristics
  • One of the couple (the blonde one) in "danger".

"Coincidences."

giphy.gif
 
M

mlclmtckr

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
I've literally never seen this before, so no.



No.

I mean, if you want, I could tell you exactly how the tardigrade travel came to be, but it has nothing to do with some dude's game.
Click to expand...

Like I believe you. I also wouldn't really care if it was borrowed from the game. I don't think there's some faux pas even if the show was inspired by the game, and if you're saying it wasn't that's good enough for me.

What I meant was I do see how there's a legitimate similarity there. Unlike the other stuff they mentioned which was actually kind of gross of the guy to bring up.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
To continue airing my grievances, I'm not really buying James Frain as Sarek which is making me sort of apprehensive about the upcoming episode. And it's not due to recasting in general, I totally bought Ben Cross in the same role in 09.

I feel like there are two kinds of people when it comes to Vulcan actors, consistently for 50 years. Every time there is a new Vulcan in Trek I know it's going to be one or the other and I dread to find out which it will be.


  • There's the cool confidence of people like Nimoy, Lenard or Cross. Actors who still make their dialogue sound (relatively) natural. It's not inhibited or stiff, it's just eternally serene while simultaneously assertive. At times it can sound pretty patronizing, but not usually smug.
  • Then there are Vulcans like Frain. I don't think they're making the character their own, they're trying to imitate their impression of a vulcan. Trying to copy the speech pattern of another actor. Stiff as wood and awkward sounding, like an overly smug robot. The telltale sign of a stiff vulcan is an extra helping of vocal fry (for some reason).
I can't be the only one who has noticed this over the years. I hope James relaxes a little in future performances. Vulcans should be depicted more like logic monks than smug robots, in my point of view. There is a difference.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
  • Tardrigrades used for space travel
  • Depiction of a human being inside a tardgridae to depict symbiosis
  • One of the main lead characters being a black female
  • Gay couple with similar physical characteristics
  • One of the couple (the blonde one) in "danger".

"Coincidences."

giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Let's not do this.

mlclmtckr said:
Like I believe you. I also wouldn't really care if it was borrowed from the game. I don't think there's some faux pas even if the show was inspired by the game, and if you're saying it wasn't that's good enough for me.

What I meant was I do see how there's a legitimate similarity there. Unlike the other stuff they mentioned which was actually kind of gross of the guy to bring up.
Click to expand...

Sure, it seems like there is. But in no way was that related to the development of the show. I even went back to the room notes the day we decided to make him a monster.
 
N

Not

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
  • Tardrigrades used for space travel
  • Depiction of a human being inside a tardgridae to depict symbiosis
  • One of the main lead characters being a black female
  • Gay couple with similar physical characteristics
  • One of the couple (the blonde one) in "danger".

"Coincidences."

giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Does the Trump gif represent your personal reaction?
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Not said:
Does the Trump gif represent your personal reaction?
Click to expand...

Even if there was no truth to it, I think you'd have to be impressed by the amount of similarities between the two. Certainly deserves a greater level of acknowledgement than a casual dismissal of it being "coincidence of creative minds." If I were one of the writers and saw this, I'd be a little freaked out.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
Even if there was no truth to it, I think you'd have to be impressed by the amount of similarities between the two. Certainly deserves a greater level of acknowledgement than a casual dismissal of it being "coincidence of creative minds." If I were one of the writers and saw this, I'd be a little freaked out.
Click to expand...

I was there. I'm not freaked out. Why would I be?
 
N

Not

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
Even if there was no truth to it, I think you'd have to be impressed by the amount of similarities between the two. Certainly deserves a greater level of acknowledgement than a casual dismissal of it being "coincidence of creative minds." If I were one of the writers and saw this, I'd be a little freaked out.
Click to expand...

There are billions of people. The Internet has made it incredibly easy for those people to make their ideas available to a wider audience along the Long Tail. Overlap will happen.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
Even if there was no truth to it, I think you'd have to be impressed by the amount of similarities between the two. Certainly deserves a greater level of acknowledgement than a casual dismissal of it being "coincidence of creative minds."
Click to expand...

I would agree that even if completely untrue and unrelated, the similarities are striking enough to at least warrant consideration and response.

ivysaur12 in here is totally confident and shared the details of the creature's creation so I imagine the production has nothing to worry about in the long run, but we're not the ones that need convincing, it's that artist. And considering the similarities, I think it's totally understandable for that artist to consider this too close for comfort. It's bewilderingly comparable.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
SillyNonsense said:
I would agree that even if completely untrue and unrelated, the similarities are striking enough to at least warrant consideration and response.

ivysaur12 in here is totally confident and shared the details of the creature's creation so I imagine the production has nothing to worry about in the long run, but we're not the ones that need convincing, it's that artist. And considering the similarities, I think it's totally understandable for that artist to consider this too close for comfort. It's bewilderingly comparable.
Click to expand...
There aren't any striking similarities, like the only thing that they share that is ""unique"" is the space travelling Tardigrade.
There aren't even that many similarities at all:
The black female characters look nothing alike, and have no apparent similar characterisation.
The gay couple is also not especially similar other than one being white and their partner a different ethnicity.
No story beats are even remotely similar from what I read.

Its, well Silly Nonsense.
 
H

Harrison Bergeron

Member
ivysaur12 said:
Yes. My namesake.

I was actually super down last week when people said they didn't like him because he sort of caries the ethical dilemma of this show and I think he's telling a wonderful story.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to go back to this, the Stamets character continues to grow oimpressively. If you look back at any show's pilot things can feel kind of "off" with performances in general. I'm really impressed by Rapp in the role, especially given all of the different things he has to sell. Also, the delivery of technical dialogue and being a believable expert is really awesome this early on for an actor scratching the surface with a character.

One criticism I would have in general though is a lot of the quipping and informal dialogue moments seem a bit off, or maybe not quite refined or tight enough. Feels like it's not hitting as organic or as clever as it is trying to be, and it sort of makes me cringe more than it does help engage with the personal nuances of the charcters. But it's early for writing these characters, and their distinct personalities. I surprise love the show pretty roundly. It's a hit for me.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Lizzy said:
Bryan Fuller has wanted a black woman to lead a star trek series since, like, forever
Click to expand...

The black female lead is the least consequential element of that blog.

There is some really odd reasoning going on here in response to this. If it was unconvincing, fair enough. So far, we've had some really interesting discussions going on regarding Trek, but some of the rationale in defence of this is pretty disappointing, irrespective of whether it's true or not.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
The black female lead is the least consequential element of that blog.

There is some really odd reasoning going on here in response to this. If it was unconvincing, fair enough. So far, we've had some really interesting discussions going on regarding Trek, but some of the rationale in defence of this is pretty disappointing, irrespective of whether it's true or not.
Click to expand...
Why do you keep doing this?

They're really not similar at all, the stories are different, the characters are different (the main character in the game is a white dude). If the rationale in the defence of the show is disappointing then this utter nonsense of yours is abhorrent:
Depiction of a human being inside a tardgridae to depict symbiosis
Click to expand...
What does this even mean? Wait, I'm being rhetorical, don't actually answer.
Just stop.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
The tardigrade aspect of Disco and the videogame isn't actually that peculiar.

Tardigrades have been gaining popularity for a while now since they were discovered, and I've seen them in other pop-culture elements before and it was only a matter of time before they were used in science-fiction.

Whales in A Voyage Home is a result of the overall popularity of dolphins, orcas and whales in general during that era or before, because knowledge of their intelligence and nature was growing and new, for example.

And the tardigrade isn't exactly how Discovery travels; it's through those stupid spores. And like someone else just said, other aspects of the series are pretty logical steps for Star Trek (having a gay couple and a black female lead).

Not saying they didn't copied this guy, it's possible (sorry ivysaur22, maybe it wasn't you but, I'm not ruling it out).
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
The black female lead is the least consequential element of that blog.

There is some really odd reasoning going on here in response to this. If it was unconvincing, fair enough. So far, we've had some really interesting discussions going on regarding Trek, but some of the rationale in defence of this is pretty disappointing, irrespective of whether it's true or not.
Click to expand...

We didn't copy a video game no one was aware of. I don't really understand why it's hard not to believe me on this.

Joeytj said:
Not saying they didn't copied this guy, it's possible (sorry ivysaur22, maybe it wasn't you but, I'm not ruling it out).
Click to expand...

The way it was developed, it's not possible. The Tardigrade was already in the show as a character and we reused the asset we owned.
 
E

Effect

Member
Some people will latch on to anything and everything it seems if they have a negative opinion (which is fine I believe) of the show. Can we just move on from this.
 
X

xenoncrash

Member
Wow, tilitt, cognitive dissonance is a real thing. Occam's razor anyone?

Btw, I like the show for the most part, but come on. Seriously.
 
K

kirblar

Member
ivysaur12 said:
We didn't copy a video game no one was aware of. I don't really understand why it's hard not to believe me on this.

The way it was developed, it's not possible. The Tardigrade was already in the show as a character and we reused the asset we owned.
Click to expand...
So, it's not nonbelief in what you're saying, it's knowing that you're the final writing team on a project that went through multiple iterations/edits/passes (as virtually any creative project does) that makes it hard to get to "oh ok, definitely 100% unrelated for sure" based on just what you're saying since you and the other writers were the last ones touching the project.

I absolutely believe you when you say that you and the other writers you worked with at the time didn't have any influence from this.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
kirblar said:
So, it's not nonbelief in what you're saying, it's knowing that you're the final writing team on a project that went through multiple iterations/edits/passes (as virtually any creative project does) that makes it hard to get to "oh ok, definitely 100% unrelated for sure" based on just what you're saying since you and the other writers were the last ones touching the project.

I absolutely believe you when you say that you and the other writers you worked with at the time didn't have any influence from this.
Click to expand...

this is not how a writing room works. There's no "at the time".

We are both the genesis and final say on any idea. That's our job. We come up with the idea and then see it through its execution in production. And not once was the idea ever related to some video game I have never heard of. Nor would anyone else given how few gamers were on staff on how obscure this project is and who initially pitched the switch to a monster who drives the spore drive (a non gamer)

We were not just the last ones touching the project. We were the first, second, third, and fourth. I literally went back to check today on the room notes about the day we decided to then Ephraim into a monster to see if there was something I forgot. Nope.

So yes, either you don't understand how television works and you don't get how this idea comes up, or you don't believe me. That's fine. But again, this was never something that was discussed and given the cocktail of the room's membership, it wouldn't have been something anyone else would've heard of before.

Effect said:
Some people will latch on to anything and everything it seems if they have a negative opinion (which is fine I believe) of the show. Can we just move on from this.
Click to expand...

Please.
 
X

xenoncrash

Member
ivysaur12 said:
this is not how a writing room works. There's no "at the time".

We are both the genesis and final say on any idea. That's our job. We come up with the idea and then see it through its execution in production. And not once was the idea ever related to some video game I have never heard of. Nor would anyone else given how few gamers were on staff on how obscure this project is and who initially pitched the switch to a monster who drives the spore drive (a non gamer)

We were not just the last ones touching the project. We were the first, second, third, and fourth. I literally went back to check today on the room notes about the day we decided to then Ephraim into a monster to see if there was something I forgot. Nope.

So yes, either you don't understand how television works and you don't get how this idea comes up, or you don't believe me. That's fine. But again, this was never something that was discussed and given the cocktail of the room's membership, it wouldn't have been something anyone else would've heard of before.

So either believe me or don't, but that's what happened. And I would know, I was there for the entire time.



Please.
Click to expand...

Man, I believe you are being honest...the serendipity just confounds me. Much love!
 
S

secretanchitman

Member
Started the show last night and finished up to the current episode today. I’m really impressed with the show so far - I thought I would dislike it but I’m already invested into all of the characters!

I’m hooked and in this for the long haul.
 
S

Sou Da

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Oh btw did you guys notice the two handed Star Trek punch is back.

I guess there really is no question that this is prime timeline (since it was absent in the movies).
Click to expand...
A child bully from 2002 could beat all of Starfleet with the way they teach people to fight.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
ivysaur12 said:
this is not how a writing room works. There's no "at the time".

We are both the genesis and final say on any idea. That's our job. We come up with the idea and then see it through its execution in production. And not once was the idea ever related to some video game I have never heard of. Nor would anyone else given how few gamers were on staff on how obscure this project is and who initially pitched the switch to a monster who drives the spore drive (a non gamer)

We were not just the last ones touching the project. We were the first, second, third, and fourth. I literally went back to check today on the room notes about the day we decided to then Ephraim into a monster to see if there was something I forgot. Nope.

So yes, either you don't understand how television works and you don't get how this idea comes up, or you don't believe me. That's fine. But again, this was never something that was discussed and given the cocktail of the room's membership, it wouldn't have been something anyone else would've heard of before.

Please.
Click to expand...

I wasn’t aware you were part of that writing group. I apologise for any offence caused. I didn’t intend to diminish the writers.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
this is not how a writing room works. There's no "at the time".

We are both the genesis and final say on any idea. That's our job. We come up with the idea and then see it through its execution in production. And not once was the idea ever related to some video game I have never heard of. Nor would anyone else given how few gamers were on staff on how obscure this project is and who initially pitched the switch to a monster who drives the spore drive (a non gamer)

We were not just the last ones touching the project. We were the first, second, third, and fourth. I literally went back to check today on the room notes about the day we decided to then Ephraim into a monster to see if there was something I forgot. Nope.

So yes, either you don't understand how television works and you don't get how this idea comes up, or you don't believe me. That's fine. But again, this was never something that was discussed and given the cocktail of the room's membership, it wouldn't have been something anyone else would've heard of before.



Please.
Click to expand...

I thought you worked on the VFX?
 
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