kunonabi
Member
This is so much better than the American ET.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoiler discussion thread: THERE WILL BE UNMARKED SPOILERS!
- Thread starter Kimawolf
- Start date
This is so much better than the American ET.
Master Nairb
Member
As of 9:32 PM on December 18, 2017 - Here is my list. Naturally, it changes rather sporadically.
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of The Jedi
Phantom Menace
Rouge One
Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of The Jedi
Phantom Menace
Rouge One
Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Just came back from watching this and have to say it was a genuinely bizarre and terrible film. Star Wars is supposed to be a gigantic space opera but instead we got an episode of Star Wars Rebels stretched into a 2+ hour film that in the end isn't even as good.
We have the unceremonious death of bad guys with unexplained back stories or motives and now we're left with comedic relief General and angsty young adult Sith, neither of which have any of the ominous presence of previous bad guys. For antagonists, the New Order is obscenely dumb to the point where I don't see how a bunch of AT-ATs did not just blow Fynn to kingdom come when he drags Rose all the way back to the base or you know, use their other ships to pen the Resistance ship they're chasing. Just because the resistance ship is running dry doesn't mean you can't encircle it by hopping ahead yourself.
The original trilogy is filled with memorable moments that leave people mimicking them for generations, this however I would not want to see again unless its to bridge to an absolutely astounding third film. I also find it wierd that the CGI is really bad in places(Luke & Rey on the pedestal area on the island, levitating boulders, etc.)
We have the unceremonious death of bad guys with unexplained back stories or motives and now we're left with comedic relief General and angsty young adult Sith, neither of which have any of the ominous presence of previous bad guys. For antagonists, the New Order is obscenely dumb to the point where I don't see how a bunch of AT-ATs did not just blow Fynn to kingdom come when he drags Rose all the way back to the base or you know, use their other ships to pen the Resistance ship they're chasing. Just because the resistance ship is running dry doesn't mean you can't encircle it by hopping ahead yourself.
The original trilogy is filled with memorable moments that leave people mimicking them for generations, this however I would not want to see again unless its to bridge to an absolutely astounding third film. I also find it wierd that the CGI is really bad in places(Luke & Rey on the pedestal area on the island, levitating boulders, etc.)
Gtafans93
Member
As a big fan of Attack of the clones I wanna point out that Anakins weird lines make sense in his context. He's around a women he loves and had a big moment with as a child in TPM. And now he has to look over her. Like an Angel (smooth ass line from kid Anakin) But here's the thing since being in the jedi order he cant have this. He cant act on this. But he does. And well no ones perfect when it comes to being in love. Especially when he has no practice at it since jedi aren't aloud too.
Honestly All AOTC Needs at least for me is the padme and Anakin deleted scenes to be put back in. And a few dooku ones. And it becomes one helluva Solid star wars film.
Iced Arcade
Member
The Force Awakens left you wanting more with questions. The last Jedi could literally be the end of a trilogy because it didn't leave me wondering... anything really.
Random question: Reys force vision of kylo in the force awakens? Is this just forgot about or did I miss something?
Random question: Reys force vision of kylo in the force awakens? Is this just forgot about or did I miss something?
According to the director, it's forgotten or wasn't written in Awakens yet when he finished his own script. In other words, he doesn't give a shit, so maybe Jar Jar Abrams will pick it up with his second squat on the franchise.
Since we're doing rankings
ESB
ANH
RotJ
RotS
TPM
RO
AotC
Clone Wars movie from 2008
Ewoks 2
Ewoks 1
FA
LJ
PuppetMaster
Member
Agree with your post mostly except this part about JJ. He is notoriously bad at closing things out in a satisfying way! He is ok with teasing and setting things up. But treats endings as after thoughts.
General Lee
Member
Like everything that was done after the original trilogy, this movie is mostly just cashing in due to popularity of the franchise. The story doesn't really stand on its own, and the movie is filled with scenes designed to appeal to a certain viewer demographic. Light saber battles, cutesy cgi animals, diversity up the wazoo etc. I can't help but feel how forced these things end up feeling. But that's the case for all blockbuster movies, and particularly franchise sequels. It's never going recapture the magic of the originals. It'll always be filled with calculated profiteering designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator. If you can accept that, these movies can be enjoyable for what they are, but nothing more. Personally I was never a huge fan of Star Wars but enjoyed them regardless. I just don't expect the new movies to be anything more than cash cows. I don't see how it would be possible for them to make a truly interesting sequel that wasn't filled with cutesy CGI animals or robots to sell to kids as toys.
Fbh
Member
Oh I'm sure they can send Finn and Rose on an hour long journey to get some spare parts for the falcon or something
And then we have the final showdown between Rei and Kylo I guess.
And if Rei trains for like...a week she is going to destroy him since she is already the most talented force user of all time
JimiNutz
Banned
Ah you're right, I completely forgot about that line. I guess a lot of my criticism comes down to the way that Rian handled these questions and ideas from TFA. Shocking the audience by doing something different is fine, I actually welcome that, but it seems like Rian just wasted a lot of cool ideas and what he did give us just didn't feel very satisfying or build any excitement for future installments.
Maybe my opinion will change once I've had a second viewing but that's going to have to wait because I didn't enjoy the film enough to want to sit through it again so soon.
Badlucktroll
Member
The characterization of Luke and ending pissed me off. Why did Mark Hamill agree to that?
BANGS
Banned
He didn't. He hated it, but did his job like a professional...
megatronium
Member
The generalized consensus seems to be Star Wars aficionados hate it and everyone else thinks its a really good/cool/fun movie. Sounds about right.
BANGS
Banned
I think this comes from the hardcore fans having all kinds of expectations that didn't get fulfilled... Whereas the casuals were able to view it from a fresh perspective...
Chuckie
Member
Where do you get that from? I know it is anecdotal but most SW fans I know loved it. Reacctions in the theatre seemed really positive too and you'd think those going 7 in the morning could be considered aficionados.
megatronium
Member
I agree.
megatronium
Member
I went to see it at 1:30 am. I'm not an aficionado. I loved it however.
Where do I get that from? Looking through this thread which seems to be full of aficianados and some articles I read.
Chuckie
Member
I rather think the aficianados (I consider myself one) are divided, but that the people who hate it are a bit louder in expressing that hate. I mean when people are putting it below Ewok movies and Clone Wars, you know what is going on.
Badlucktroll
Member
Mark Hamill said he wishes that they went with George Lucas's ideas for episodes 7-9. After seeing this movie, while fun to watch, i agree with him. http://uproxx.com/hitfix/mark-hamill-george-lucas-star-wars-the-last-jedi/
I bet it would have had the Jedi Order rebuilt, with Luke as the leader, and the all powerful new republic facing down a cunning new enemy. It probably would have been similar to the prequels though.
"What I wish is that they had been more accepting of his guidance and advice. Because he had an outline for ‘7,' ‘8,' and ‘9'. And it is vastly different to what they have done..."
I bet it would have had the Jedi Order rebuilt, with Luke as the leader, and the all powerful new republic facing down a cunning new enemy. It probably would have been similar to the prequels though.
"What I wish is that they had been more accepting of his guidance and advice. Because he had an outline for ‘7,' ‘8,' and ‘9'. And it is vastly different to what they have done..."
megatronium
Member
That's a fair assessment too.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
This guy is pretty spot on. (I still liked the Hyperspace Kamikaze thing, they speak about crashing into thing in ep4 so it fits for me)
This is a strawman being thrown around to discredit people who didn't like the movie. Just lump them together as "Star Wars aficionados" or whatever and suddenly we can dismiss their criticism as coming from a fanboy perspective that just wanted the movie to fit into whatever mold they were expecting.
I mean, most of the problems I had with it would have been issues in any film. A movie that is too long, has a poorly done subplot, and generally dumb decisions is going to be bad whether it's a Star Wars film or not.
Grinchy
Banned
I liked some aspects, but overall, I didn't care much for the movie. I really liked 7, so I expected to enjoy this one at the very least. I came away just feeling lukewarm about it. I had major problems with the ridiculous military strategies that just killed my suspension of disbelief. Finn's entire storyline just felt like a desperate attempt to include him in the movie, pad the running time, and shove in some more CG action scenes. So many things just didn't feel like they mattered at all - Phasma was pointless, Snoke has no character or backstory, ect. It's like the marketing team dictated things instead of competent writers.
There were tons of kids at the theater, and they seemed bored as hell. One kid was flopping forward, turning around, and flopping forward again into the recliner in front of me. Another kid kept walking over to one of his parents who had to keep reassuring him that it would be over soon. Then, of course, there were people in and out of the theater throughout the whole thing, with the squeaky door being opened and closed from 10 minutes in all the way through to the end.
There were tons of kids at the theater, and they seemed bored as hell. One kid was flopping forward, turning around, and flopping forward again into the recliner in front of me. Another kid kept walking over to one of his parents who had to keep reassuring him that it would be over soon. Then, of course, there were people in and out of the theater throughout the whole thing, with the squeaky door being opened and closed from 10 minutes in all the way through to the end.
megatronium
Member
Nah. You just sound like you're taking my observation personally. I did bold 'generalized consensus' for a reason. There's plenty of evidence to back up my observation.
megatronium
Member
There's definitely room for this opinion also!
Even if you view this film as a movie unto itself, its just a bad movie overall. Nothing truly memorable or iconic as a film, poorly paced, poorly written with internal inconsistencies and frankly not something that I for one will see again unless the 3rd salvages the overall story.
Labelling it as an issue with 'fans' is just a lazy way to salvage some dignity for the film.
Chuckie
Member
Except I wasn't labelling it as an issue with fans...considering I literally said the fans were divided.
What I do want to know is if the movie is so objectively bad, why is it getting such good reviews? Is it really Disney paying all those critics? And I am not talking some Youtubers, but rather those of newspapers and sites etc.
megatronium
Member
Yes you've hit the nail on the head here. This is the 'evidence' I was speaking of in my earlier post.
ShodanMAN
Member
Exactly. My criticisms of 'The Last Jedi' are based on facets of movie making; Character development, pacing, lack of cohesive story telling and the fact that even though Rian Johnson is a good director, he focused a little too much on ''making something of his own'' rather than focusing on creating the middle chapter of a trilogy. The majority of people criticising this film aren't talking about ''head canon'' or saying things like ''the lightsaber looks dumb'', they are highlighting legitimate problems the movie has.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
It's strange for me, but the more I think about the film, now that I've seen it, the more I start to dislike it. Sort of like attack of the clones, where I watched it at the theater and thought it was OK. Then, a few days later, realize how dumb it was and eventually don't really care to ever see it again.
I liked some of the sequences in the film, I liked some of the twists and turns, I liked seeing Luke and Yoda. But the more I mull over the film the more issues I have with it.
I still don't hate the film, and enjoyed watching it at the theater. I fear that, over time, I may grow to dislike it in the end. The hate grows in this one.
I liked some of the sequences in the film, I liked some of the twists and turns, I liked seeing Luke and Yoda. But the more I mull over the film the more issues I have with it.
I still don't hate the film, and enjoyed watching it at the theater. I fear that, over time, I may grow to dislike it in the end. The hate grows in this one.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I didn't really have any theories or expectations, I knew it wasn't going to go the way I thought it was, pun intended but there's just so many bad stuff that stands out.
Which was laughable while people are saying it's good.
And Lukes legacy should have been emotional but was more "WTF Really"
People said the same thing about Ghostbusters 2016 when ever someone said any negative about it and that film was frigging terrible.
same applies here.
Hissing Sid
Member
I love the narrative thats being pushed by some.
Fans who arent enamoured with TLJ are apparently curmudgeonly old grump-a-lumps, who are just too set in their ways to be able to appreciate the majesty of tit-sucking, cowardly wiener Luke.
Whereas those who like TLJ are free thinking adepts of teh modern wirld (TM), versatile of mind, and fully equipped to be able to appreciate the glorious artistic vision of Nu Star Wars (All rights reserved), as envisaged by the Great Mouse Media Factory.
.....
Damn my head cannon! Damn it all to hell. I must have just imagined all that lore and all those character arcs set up during the previous forty years worth of films and material.
Yeah that must be it. Its not a shit film or anything. Im just old man yells at cloud.gif
Obviously.
Fans who arent enamoured with TLJ are apparently curmudgeonly old grump-a-lumps, who are just too set in their ways to be able to appreciate the majesty of tit-sucking, cowardly wiener Luke.
Whereas those who like TLJ are free thinking adepts of teh modern wirld (TM), versatile of mind, and fully equipped to be able to appreciate the glorious artistic vision of Nu Star Wars (All rights reserved), as envisaged by the Great Mouse Media Factory.
.....
Damn my head cannon! Damn it all to hell. I must have just imagined all that lore and all those character arcs set up during the previous forty years worth of films and material.
Yeah that must be it. Its not a shit film or anything. Im just old man yells at cloud.gif
Obviously.
longdi
Banned
I agree!
Ghostbusters 2016 was a bad slapstick film that has a cheap TV look, people defended it by calling us out as sexists.
TLJ is a terrible film too, im not even a grumpy old starwars fan. Terrible plot armor, subverted the whole point of TFA which subverted the OT. Hey at least TFA was a better directed film, with good flow and explanation.
Generalized consensus you say?
What's with this new trend that anytime a new blockbuster is not getting worshiped a very specific set of reasons is thrown around as to why the audience/paying customer is to be blamed?
So in this case it's not the countless plot holes and absurd inconsistencies that people keep bringing up, the cardboard characters to the point of being caricatures, the bland, stupidly childish humor, the drawn out boring scenes, no.
If I didn't like the movie I'm obviously a diehard fan who can't accept anything different than what my childhood nostalgia dictates, therefore not to be taken seriously since I'm hardly entitled to an opinion. Good to know.
I'm using this quote since it was recent, I'm not saying that you personally imply everything of the above, but similar arguments are all over the place.
sad Mark Hamill
Also, the actress who plays Rey in an interview said that when she read the script for the first time, she went straight to RJ to discuss, because she couldn't believe it.
MisterFalcon
Member
This movie felt like it was going back in time with its technology.
Act 1: WW2 bombing run Dambusters style
Act 2: One sailing vessel chasing another, both unable to escape or close in
Act 3: Medieval siege with a battering ram being wheeled up to bring down the gate
Act 1: WW2 bombing run Dambusters style
Act 2: One sailing vessel chasing another, both unable to escape or close in
Act 3: Medieval siege with a battering ram being wheeled up to bring down the gate
megatronium
Member
This post was funny!
mechashiva
Member
If you told me the Wayans directed Lukes scenes Id believe you.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I've seen people say the same about Jedi.
people who don't like it are sexist and racist.
Which is jarring as everyone likes the characters from TFA and Rogue One
People love Rey she just doesn't have a back story which we thought we'd get.
So we are pissed that Phasma is underused and Rey is given a lazy background, Fin is given a shitty subplot and Luke Skywalker dies of a hernia.
Strazyplus
Member
Heres a good review, there is a lot of hate for this movie is a bit too much. it is a good movie.
https://youtu.be/1vdl4pAtno4
https://youtu.be/1vdl4pAtno4
plasmawave
Banned
Maybe not to that extent but I agree with you. The movie is already getting split reviews from fans. Once the honeymoon period ends most people will regard this movie as a disappointment.
It happened with TFA. It happened with RO. And it will happen again with this one.
ShodanMAN
Member
ZeroTheShadow
Member
I don't know a single person IRL that doesn't think this movie is trash. I barely like Star Wars and this movie was just plain terrible. Only reason it has any decent reviews is because fans don't want to admit it's bad.
Harlock
Member
Half in the Bag about Last Jedi (sponsored by Fandango):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw&t=0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw&t=0s
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
maybe not franchise destroying, depending on the next movie.
but definitely one of the worst sequels of all time. nothing made sense, it wasn't fun, and didn't build on anything from the previous movie in any appreciable way.
fixed that for you
Judging by how people defend this movie and how the director himself has talked about how he made this movie, it's pretty clear that they don't really care for the franchise, because of how willing they are to ignore glaring flaws.
You guys can point toward how these movies are just cheap cash ins and how movies aren't supposed to be good, but look at the original trilogy and how their actually strived to make something good.
Even the prequels aimed to be good and be more than just forgettable summer flicks.