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[Icedburden]

Guess these days we can find anything to complain about. Sorry but this is ridiculous.

Pretty much. If the villains were portrayed as African-Americans, I could see an argument. But, it's using an artistic choice that makes it easier for people to grasp, as a crutch for an argument that's grasping at a reason to exist. Light/dark is a classic trope to portray good vs. evil. It has nothing to do with skin tone.
If a child sees a white and black man stand together on the tv, the child won't say the black man is evil. If a child sees link, and then sees another link with black skin and armor, he would say he's evil. There's also changes in eye color, posture and equipment that goes along with it to push the image of evil.
I agree that there should be far better representations of African Americans in games, period. More characters, more leads and fleshed out backgrounds.

 

[KillLaCam]

If in Revengeance the only character who does that is evil, it's basically used a signifier that he's evil even subconsciously.
It's another correlation that means that black skin = evil.

I thought that was just the nanomachines all moving into 1 point to make a shield and was that color was just to make it look metallic. Kinda like how 95% of Raiden's body was that same color. Even though he's the good guy.

It only turns that color when you hit him or he does something that needed excessive force like throwing part of a building or whatever.

I think atleast the Revengeance thing is stretching it.

 

[nel e nel]

Historically black people weren't seen as people, doesn't make it right or something that should be tolerated. Seen a lot of "it's 2017..." posts on GAF lately, but this is the first thread on gaming side where the phrase has relevance.

You're right, and you also missed my point. Traditionally fantasy and sci-if would use the mistreatment of aliens and other races as a way to expose how shittily POC are treated in society. Enslavement, otherization, genocide are all issues tackled by these genres as a way to expose them. These genres were addressing these issues as far back as the 1930s-40s. Even now when it's much easier to address these topics head on without having to,use metaphors, we still have asshats - in this thread even - that deny that this is even an issue.

It's also why I said it's a double edged sword: those genres have done a lot to address issues of race and racism, but many of their tropes are now outdated and offensive.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

You're right, and you also missed my point. Traditionally fantasy and sci-if would use the mistreatment of aliens and other races as a way to expose how shittily POC are treated in society. Enslavement, otherization, genocide are all issues tackled by these genres as a way to expose them. These genres were addressing these issues as far back as the 1930s-40s. Even now when it's much easier to address these topics head on without having to,use metaphors, we still have asshats - in this thread even - that deny that this is even an issue.

Or to summarise: Tropes that were once used as a progressive measure, now conventions of the genres in question, often work as a crutch so as not to provide actual representation where it should be nominally more socially acceptable to do so.

 

[sanstesy]

Lore isn't an excuse, otherwise Quiet would be ok.

Nothing about that analogy actually works. I want to you to properly lay that down.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Pretty much. If the villains were portrayed as African-Americans, I could see an argument. But, it's using an artistic choice that makes it easier for people to grasp, as a crutch for an argument that's grasping at a reason to exist. Light/dark is a classic trope to portray good vs. evil. It has nothing to do with skin tone.
If a child sees a white and black man stand together on the tv, the child won't say the black man is evil. If a child sees link, and then sees another link with black skin and armor, he would say he's evil. There's also changes in eye color, posture and equipment that goes along with it to push the image of evil.
I agree that there should be far better representations of African Americans in games, period. More characters, more leads and fleshed out backgrounds.

Indeed and i dont even consider it a race thing, but a cultural one. Exploring other culutres is creatively liberating.

 

[Zomba13]

I like to think the "gerudo are thieves" thing is just Hylian racism. Because from what I remember of OoT they don't really steal anything, they just have their desert fort and guard it. There is the Spirit Temple person who wants the treasure but I mean, who doesn't want treasure?

Oh, and with the Tetra/Zelda thing that was always weird to me but I just kind of brushed it away as being "pirates = out in sun on the sea = tan. Princess = in castle tower all day in shade = no tan.". Not sure if that was intended or if I'm bad for assuming/thinking that. I never thought about it until it was brought up here (but a while back, in a different thread).

 

[nel e nel]

Or to summarise: Tropes that were once used as a progressive measure, now conventions of the genres in question, often work as a crutch so as not to provide actual representation where it should be nominally more socially acceptable to do so.

Absolutely. And As I said in my original post:

It's also why I said it's a double edged sword: those genres have done a lot to address issues of race and racism, but many of their tropes are now outdated and offensive.

The other one is that the bad guys "come from the east".

 

[Smeags]

I see folks coming from two different viewpoints:

1. It's based on the concept coming from light skinned dominated countries that darker skinned people carry inherently negative/lesser traits (and/or light skinned people carry inherently positive traits) and therefore are easier to convey as villanous.

2. Based on how we have evolved biologically and as a society, we have placed different values and characteristics upon different colors. Light brings us life and understanding. Good. Darkness brings us chaos and death. Evil. Hence our cultural, mythological, and religious tropes.

I would argue that the foundation lies in view #2 (and for most cases it remains with #2) but as someone already said, some cultures/myths/religions have used view 2 and applied it to view 1 (dark is bad, so therefore darker skinned people are inherently more bad (or even less human) than light skinned people). This viewpoint is obviously wrong and needs to be fought. That said, I don't believe that view #2 is inherently malicious. Id say that the problem lies with our tribal natures applying values to outside groups [based on biological factors, groups based on ideas can still be argued against/opposed in some cases] that needent be applied at all.

-

All that said, the video creator has made it clear that creators should not make villains dark skinned (evil smile, red eyes, or grey skin instead). I would also greatly argue that this sort of censorship isn't the right way to combat this issue. Someone argued before that perhaps a greater chance to see darker skinned heroes/protagonists would have a healthier and more creatively positive impact, and I'd agree.

A creator (whether it be film, novels, gaming, or any other media) should still be able to have a lighter skinned protsgonist and a darker skinned antagonist (and vice versa) as long as it's done tastefully and without trying to pin negative (or even positive at the others expense) connotations based on the color of ones skin.

 

[Weltall Zero]

In other cases like Cia, as brought up by OP, I would say that's less down to strictly 'dark = evil', so much as it as a closely correlated case of exotification. Cia is intended as the femme fatale, the Ms. Fanservice of her game, to borrow parlance from tvtropes a bit. And uh, there's a bit of trend in Japanese media - unfortunate or otherwise - to treat brown skin as sexy; hence so often if a woman with a touch of melanin turns up in an anime, she is likely to be most stacked and scantily dressed member of the cast. Hell, even Nintendo has gotten in on it of late with the Gerudo in BOTW and Twintelle. And because evil is so often treated as sexy because lust, temptation and all that, the result is a character like Cia being made brown as a presumed matter of sex appeal.

Which is another utterly toxic trope: note that it's always women that fall into the sexy = evil trope, reinforcing the idea that it's wrong for women to own their sex appeal.

Basically dark skinned = evil and sexy women = evil, all neatly wrapped up in a package of rancid Victorian values.

 

[nel e nel]

I see folks coming from two different viewpoints:

1. It's based on the concept coming from light skinned dominated countries that darker skinned people carry inherently negative/lesser traits (and/or light skinned people carry inherently positive traits) and therefore are easier to convey as villanous.

2. Based on how we have evolved biologically and as a society, we have placed different values and characteristics upon different colors. Light brings us life and understanding. Good. Darkness brings us chaos and death. Evil. Hence our cultural, mythological, and religious tropes.

I would argue that the foundation lies in view #2 (and for most cases it remains with #2) but as someone already said, some cultures/myths/religions have used view 2 and applied it to view 1 (dark is bad, so therefore darker skinned people are inherently more bad (or even less human) than light skinned people). This viewpoint is obviously wrong and needs to be fought. That said, I don't believe that view #2 is inherently malicious. Id say that the problem lies with our tribal natures applying values to outside groups [based on biological factors, groups based on ideas can still be argued against/opposed in some cases] that needent be applied at all.

-

All that said, the video creator has made it clear that creators should not make villains dark skinned (evil smile, red eyes, or grey skin instead). I would also greatly argue that this sort of censorship isn't the right way to combat this issue. Someone argued before that perhaps a greater chance to see darker skinned heroes/protagonists would have a healthier and more creatively positive impact, and I'd agree.

A creator (whether it be film, novels, gaming, or any other media) should still be able to have a lighter skinned protsgonist and a darker skinned antagonist (and vice versa) as long as it's done tastefully and without trying to pin negative (or even positive at the others expense) connotations based on the color of ones skin.

Except with number 2, many of those creation myths come from "white" cultures.

 

[PatThePassive]

cole train is not a good example

If loving Cole train is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Lee and Clem were ahead of the curve and are great examples.

 

[Griss]

Meanwhile, it's something I had been aware of since I was a child, which saddened me. Ganondorf was notable for me with this, as basically the only major black character I was aware of, with the Nintendo 64 being my first console.

The redemption of the Gerudo in Breath of the Wild from shit caricatures of nebulously evil arab thieves into one of my favourite fantasy races ever was one of that games biggest surprises and successes. Man, they are awesome in that game.

 

[moeman]

Evil Ryu and Violent Ken: the thread.

When they were revealed in USF2 I rolled my eyes at how they're literally the same except with darker skin 🙄

 

[Twilight Gap]

I see folks coming from two different viewpoints:

1. It's based on the concept coming from light skinned dominated countries that darker skinned people carry inherently negative/lesser traits (and/or light skinned people carry inherently positive traits) and therefore are easier to convey as villanous.

2. Based on how we have evolved biologically and as a society, we have placed different values and characteristics upon different colors. Light brings us life and understanding. Good. Darkness brings us chaos and death. Evil. Hence our cultural, mythological, and religious tropes.

I would argue that the foundation lies in view #2 (and for most cases it remains with #2) but as someone already said, some cultures/myths/religions have used view 2 and applied it to view 1 (dark is bad, so therefore darker skinned people are inherently more bad (or even less human) than light skinned people). This viewpoint is obviously wrong and needs to be fought. That said, I don't believe that view #2 is inherently malicious. Id say that the problem lies with our tribal natures applying values to outside groups [based on biological factors, groups based on ideas can still be argued against/opposed in some cases] that needent be applied at all.

-

All that said, the video creator has made it clear that creators should not make villains dark skinned (evil smile, red eyes, or grey skin instead). I would also greatly argue that this sort of censorship isn't the right way to combat this issue. Someone argued before that perhaps a greater chance to see darker skinned heroes/protagonists would have a healthier and more creatively positive impact, and I'd agree.

A creator (whether it be film, novels, gaming, or any other media) should still be able to have a lighter skinned protsgonist and a darker skinned antagonist (and vice versa) as long as it's done tastefully and without trying to pin negative (or even positive at the others expense) connotations based on the color of ones skin.

respect

 

[Blindy]

That's like getting upset that white represents holy/good in games and dark represents devil/evil.


This is as bad as getting upset about women getting assaulted in games and companies having fear of having a main protagonist in any violent video games against men.

 

[Weltall Zero]

If a child sees a white and black man stand together on the tv, the child won't say the black man is evil.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Time to follow this advice:

Because this bears repeating. Give this video a watch.

 

[Version 3.0]

Do you think they just randomly used whatever colors they happened to pick up when designing these characters?

Of course not random. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't say "make Scar look like a black guy because he's the bad guy". Like I said, what's with the green eyes? It's a bad example. I'm not disputing the premise, just that it applies to the Lion King.

 

[nel e nel]

If loving Cole train is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Lee and Clem were ahead of the curve and are great examples.

I love Cole Train as much as anyone, but I also recognize that he is a pretty shallow stereotype of the hyped up black athlete.

 

[Htown]

I don't understand how GAF can get super in-depth about the minutiae of complicated game systems, but the second anybody brings up representation y'all play like you're dumb as shit and don't know what anybody is talking about.

 

[dmcRedgrave]

I see folks coming from two different viewpoints:

1. It's based on the concept coming from light skinned dominated countries that darker skinned people carry inherently negative/lesser traits (and/or light skinned people carry inherently positive traits) and therefore are easier to convey as villanous.

2. Based on how we have evolved biologically and as a society, we have placed different values and characteristics upon different colors. Light brings us life and understanding. Good. Darkness brings us chaos and death. Evil. Hence our cultural, mythological, and religious tropes.

I would argue that the foundation lies in view #2 (and for most cases it remains with #2) but as someone already said, some cultures/myths/religions have used view 2 and applied it to view 1 (dark is bad, so therefore darker skinned people are inherently more bad (or even less human) than light skinned people). This viewpoint is obviously wrong and needs to be fought. That said, I don't believe that view #2 is inherently malicious. Id say that the problem lies with our tribal natures applying values to outside groups [based on biological factors, groups based on ideas can still be argued against/opposed in some cases] that needent be applied at all.

-

All that said, the video creator has made it clear that creators should not make villains dark skinned (evil smile, red eyes, or grey skin instead). I would also greatly argue that this sort of censorship isn't the right way to combat this issue. Someone argued before that perhaps a greater chance to see darker skinned heroes/protagonists would have a healthier and more creatively positive impact, and I'd agree.

A creator (whether it be film, novels, gaming, or any other media) should still be able to have a lighter skinned protsgonist and a darker skinned antagonist (and vice versa) as long as it's done tastefully and without trying to pin negative (or even positive at the others expense) connotations based on the color of ones skin.

Yeah I mean I feel like no matter what your stance on the topic everyone can agree that videogames need more solid POC protagonists that are cool dudes/ladies to look up to.

 

[Mael]

http://zelda.gamepedia.com/Gerudo

They are clearly portrayed as such in OoT.

They live in the valley but outside of that ?

They are better than ever represented but still 100 times less interesting than in OoT. I would have loved to explore a town of a thief tribe. Instead they are regulated to a one-dimensional tribe with a women-only twist.

In Ocarina, they're uninteresting.
They're a band of thieves with horse skills that are never shown and makes no sense.
They're proud thieves but that's it.
In BotW, you get to see how they function and meet faces of their culture that isn't just "they have 2 swords and live in a desert".
In BotW, they're proud warrior who live in the land, they travel and the one facet they have is used as a lens signifier that shows how diffeernt they are to the other tribes.
they're no longer bad guys since the yiga took their place narrative wise.

I thought that was just the nanomachines all moving into 1 point to make a shield and was that color was just to make it look metallic. Kinda like how 95% of Raiden's body was that same color. Even though he's the good guy.

It only turns that color when you hit him or he does something that needed excessive force like throwing part of a building or whatever.

I think atleast the Revengeance thing is stretching it.

Haven't played Revengeance so I can't tell.
I'm just saying if the only case something like that happens is when a bad guy does it, then it applies.

 

[BuckyBabbs]

I suppose racism is everywhere if you look for it but honestly, this is just a ridiculous comment.
Do you think it's racist that Darth Vader is black or perhaps you feel it's racist that Venom from the Spidey comics is black in color? Now,...I know, I know, you said brown but, we all know what you meant.
The bottom line is Bad guys and Bad gals are represented from all colors across the spectrum and instead of making threads like this, perhaps you should take of your "I only see brown "colored shades and take a look in the mirror brutha cuz from where I'm sitting the only person having an issue is you.
Game on.
Peace out.
Mic drop

 

[KarmaCow]

No because the association of Black/Dark = Evil is a thing since the dawn of humanity.

I never thought about the ethnicity of a bad guy when they become or are darker.

Like i said its problem if you want it to be a problem.

That isn't a reason to continue perpetuating it. Pretty much every heinous act has existed since the dawn of humanity.

Actually take a second to think about how perpetuating the idea that a person with darker skin is bad. If you want a quick example, watch the video The Adder has posted multiple times in this thread about the Clark doll experiment.

 

[RPGam3r]

I love Cole Train as much as anyone, but I also recognize that he is a pretty shallow stereotype of the hyped up black athlete.

So I just thought he was a hyped up athlete stereotype, since I've played a lot of sports and he sounds like a lot of hyped up jocks I've played with regardless of skin color.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I don't understand how GAF can get super in-depth about the minutiae of complicated game systems, but the second anybody brings up representation y'all play like you're dumb as shit and don't know what anybody is talking about.

That's easy to answer: because the first requires intelligence (and / or obsessiveness) while the later requires empathy.

 

[PSqueak]

Do you think it's racist that Darth Vader is black or perhaps you feel it's racist that Venom from the Spidey comics is black in color? Now,...I know, I know, you said brown but, we all know what you meant.

Some people did find a problem with the fact that he was voiced by a black man only while he was evil.

 

[Big One]

Uh...no? There's still far more white villains than there are non-white villains out there. There needs to be more dark skinned villains.

 

[Reset]

Uh...no? There's still far more white villains than there are non-white villains out there. There needs to be more dark skinned villains.

Did you even watch the video in the OP/read the OP? Please, go take a look. :I

 

[JonnyDBrit]

That's easy to answer: because the first requires intelligence (and / or obsessiveness) while the later requires empathy.

One is also rooted in technical specifications, the other in understanding social norms... which they may or may not knowingly benefit from.

 

[Mael]

Yeah I mean I feel like no matter what your stance on the topic everyone can agree that videogames need more solid POC protagonists that are cool dudes/ladies to look up to.

Oh boy, do I have some surprise for you.

 

[EMT0]

I thought it was only a GAF meme that the newest batch of juniors is worse than all the previous batches, but jesus christ this thread. Gamergate runs deep.

 

[BuckyBabbs]

Some people did find a problem with the fact that he was voiced by a black man only while he was evil.

That is absolutely ludicrous. James Earl Jones voice was spot on. That's why he was voice cast. Not skin. Anyyyyy body that actually has a problem with this needs a brain transplant stat. I mean, I don't wanna spoil Star Wars for anyone but ahhhh Once you watch them, it'll kinda make sense that ol Vaderoo is a white feller
By the way, I do believe you

 

[yanipheonu]

I thought that was just the nanomachines all moving into 1 point to make a shield and was that color was just to make it look metallic. Kinda like how 95% of Raiden's body was that same color. Even though he's the good guy.

It only turns that color when you hit him or he does something that needed excessive force like throwing part of a building or whatever.

I think atleast the Revengeance thing is stretching it.

As someone who brought up the Armstrong thing, I didn't actually intended it be specifically a good or bad example, but more an interesting example.

For me though, I read it as a better twist on the usual black skin = evil trope.

Clearly the "blackness" isn't a racial trait, but an unnatural trait of the nanomachines in his body. The "evil" aspect isn't blackness itself, but the fact his body has something unnatural in it.

I take it as a better take on the black=evil trope. It excised the racial aspect and made it entirely unnatural.

I mentioned Greed as an example specifically because they explain the black colour comes from pure carbon. Again, it's less some racial trait and more that their body is doing something unnatural. You could have this work as well with diamond skin, or some other hardened substance. In this case, it makes sense for contrast, since it was originally in black and white.

 

[Blindy]

I love Cole Train as much as anyone, but I also recognize that he is a pretty shallow stereotype of the hyped up black athlete.

I view him as comic relief alongside Baird in a series that hardly offers any of that so he's much appreciated. I don't see any way that's condemning on black video game characters to have someone with some personality.

Besides Gears 4 introduced a smart black protagonist in Del Walker with sarcastic humor to boot.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Of course not random. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't say "make Scar look like a black guy because he's the bad guy". Like I said, what's with the green eyes? It's a bad example. I'm not disputing the premise, just that it applies to the Lion King.

Not sure why Disney should get the benefit of the doubt when they've used the same coded language that has been ingrained in Hollywood for decades.

They made Scar look darker because in the design phase, in every facet, the designer's job was to think "how do we make this character look more evil?" They solved this by going with a darker color-palette. Green is also a common color for representing evil as well (hell, look at 80% of Spider-Man's more popular villains to see that it's an easy go-to).


Never let anyone show you how often Disney also likes to use flamboyant or gay stereotypes for its villains if you don't believe me...

 

[Papo Swing]

I think many are missing the point in the cases where the character is not exactly black/brown. The fact that we have made the connection that all bad stuff is black/dark is parr of it. Even if Ganondorf is green or brown or whatever they still decided to make the different looking guy evil in part because of how he looks.

Oh and Scar is a great example. I know because even as an innocent kid I questioned it. I still love the movie. Y'all are focusing too much on the eyes too dispute it, as if middle eastern or dark skinned people can't have green eyes.

 

[timetokill]

I'm normally very sensitive to this kind of thing, but this feels like the wrong approach to me. It's the same fallacy of "strong female characters" being almost entirely "women that are strong/kick ass." It's supposed to be STRONG CHARACTERS, FEMALE. I get that in our modern era there's a huge problem with how minorities are perceived and used in media. But I think that lies more in those characters being flat, two-dimensional "bad guys" that aren't interesting.

The argument should be that brown-skinned characters should be better characters, not that they shouldn't be evil. I think it's regressive to say "audiences should know that when they see a brown skinned character, they're a good guy." No. We should have fleshed out characters of all skin colors, and have people be evil because of their ideas and actions, not simply skin color.

Evil characters are some of our favorite characters in media. Oftentimes a story is only as good as its villain, because a good villain is a reflection of the worst in all of us, and that's what makes them fascinating. Look at the Joker, which is in interesting character and a compelling contrast to Batman. If the Joker was black, would that be bad? No, we'd have a badass black villain character that is really interesting.

In short I think making all brown-skinned characters "good" is really selling it short. It's the same kind of backhanded "helpful" patriarchy type thing where women can't be villains. Fuck that. Dredd was awesome and it had a fantastic female lead villain.

I'd really rather not fix the problem of people being put into one box by saying, "let's put them in this other box instead."


But yes, obviously, if you're thinking, "we need an evil character, how do we visually represent that? i know, let's make him have dark skin" then you should fuck off. And the "color swap to dark skin for evil version" is just stupid and yeah, should stop.

 

[TheSpoiler]

It'd be great if things were mixed and match. Can you name more than twenty games where a dark person fights a light person? It's so rare that the reverse becomes the status quo, and that feeds into old timey racist stereotypes of darker skin = bad. I mean, that's literally how people in today's society still think, and whether a developer knows it or not, every white good guy killing a dark bad guy feeds into it.

This can be solved by a). making better dark villains in general so they stand out on the basis of their personality and b). switching things up so that dark is good and yadda yadda.

 

[PSqueak]

That is absolutely ludicrous. James Earl Jones voice was spot on. That's why he was voice cast. Not skin. Anyyyyy body that actually has a problem with this needs a brain transplant stat. I mean, I don't wanna spoil Star Wars for anyone but ahhhh Once you watch them, it'll kinda make sense that ol Vaderoo is a white feller
By the way, I do believe you

I mean, his voice is perfect and the character wouldn't be as good with any other voice, but it's weird Jones didn't voice maskless vader in the original trilogy still.

 

[Arozay]

maybe that's just a tan?

An EVIL tan.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I suppose racism is everywhere if you look for it but honestly, this is just a ridiculous comment.
Do you think it's racist that Darth Vader is black or perhaps you feel it's racist that Venom from the Spidey comics is black in color?

If the Dark Side literally turned you brown-skinned, would you say there's an issue?
If the Venom symbiote made the human dark-skinned even when the symbiote is retracted, would you say there's an issue?
Just to see where you stand exactly.

Now,...I know, I know, you said brown but, we all know what you meant.

No, not, really. Why don't you tell us?

The bottom line is Bad guys and Bad gals are represented from all colors across the spectrum and instead of making threads like this, perhaps you should take of your "I only see brown "colored shades and take a look in the mirror brutha cuz from where I'm sitting the only person having an issue is you.

"Only you, the guy who tweeted that, and everyone who thinks like you, of which there's at least a few dozens in this thread alone and several millions out there in hundreds of organizations. But I'm going to ignore them."
Convincing.

Game on.
Peace out.
Mic drop

Sorry, I didn't realize you're 13. Carry on.

 

[Zomba13]

Haven't played Revengeance so I can't tell.
I'm just saying if the only case something like that happens is when a bad guy does it, then it applies.

I wouldn't say Revengeance applies. I mean, yeah, a lot of the (white) boss characters wear black (the Brazilian one wears white/beige) and the white guy that inspired Trump turns black when you hit him but it's because carbon fiber is black (he turns metalicy black) and it's all nano-machines and usual metal gear techno-magic bullshitery. Like, Raiden, the good guy (white), goes from a a white robot body into a black one after the tutorial and he's the hero character.

Then again I don't see the "dark clothing" as being the same as "black villain". Like, I'm fine if the bad guy is the only one wearing black or dark colours but if the only dark skinned character was the bad guy then it gets weird.

 

[Bubbavelli]

Never noticed this pattern. Indeed, the first 20 evil guys that came to my mind are all white.

First post encapsulates gaf to a tee

 

[Big One]

Did you even watch the video in the OP/read the OP? Please, go take a look. :I

Yes I have. Why? I don't disagree with the notion that turning established characters into dark skinned versions of themselves to depict them as evil is wrong, but rather I disagree with the notion that the video also provides with examples such as Ganondorf and Ansem as being negative stereotypes. The market is already over-saturated with white villains as is. A part of what makes a villain so enjoyable for people is the feeling of empowerment you get out of them, so making villains just as relatable as the heroes in media is important as well.

 

[BuckyBabbs]

I mean, his voice is perfect and the character wouldn't be as good with any other voice, but it's weird Jones didn't voice maskless vader in the original trilogy still.

Because it would have been Ol'Jones voice coming out of Hayden Christensen's mouth. Not to mention the entire point of James Earl Jones kinda raspy voice was because of Vaders mask.

 

[nel e nel]

I view him as comic relief alongside Baird in a series that hardly offers any of that so he's much appreciated. I don't see any way that's condemning on black video game characters to have someone with some personality.

Besides Gears 4 introduced a smart black protagonist in Del Walker with sarcastic humor to boot.

For sure, but at the same time, how often do we see smart black protagonists in any medium? Usually they are the first ones to get killed, or they are comic relief. Yes, it's better now than it was even 20 years ago, but the damage of blackface, Stepin Fetchit and other traditions is still strong.

 

[PSqueak]

Because it would have been Ol'Jones voice coming out of Hayden Christensen's mouth. Not to mention the entire point of James Earl Jones kinda raspy voice was because of Vaders mask.

No, i mean, in the original trilogy, there is a short scene before he dies where he speaks to luke without his mask, after his redemption act of killing the emperor himself, which uses the actual actor in the suit's voice rather than what we have been hearing during the entire trilogy, which to me is weird that they didn't dub Jone's voice for that one scene.

 

[KillLaCam]

Haven't played Revengeance so I can't tell.
I'm just saying if the only case something like that happens is when a bad guy does it, then it applies.

Oh yeah he's the only one who does that but he's the only one who has nanomachines. Nobody else is that advanced.
But its the same dark grayish color that 90% of the mechanical things and clothing are in that world. Metal Gear doesn't have a large color palatte. Theyre all pretty grey besides MGS3 where everything is green and Mgsv when they actually have a good engine to work with.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I'm...well, not entirely sold on the video's proposed alternative of using blue or gray instead of a darker shade of brown. The issue is prevalent because of the contrast with protagonists, so the only suitable solution appears to be to flip the script. But a noteworthy topic, nonetheless.