Ask me about that, I'm actually managing to get worse with time.
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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
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Thanks, I'll give it a watch. Much appreciated!
sixteen-bit
Member
May 26th
You know what I mean
Well it does look like they are announcing a character on April 1st.....
Capcom made the problem. Players need to show Capcom how they're solving it. Especially if their goal is for all characters to be viable and fun.
I really don't though. What's the problem? Playing a character since 2008 and wanting to play someone else? Deciding to learn a character that covers off your bad matchups? Learning a character that's been problematic for you so you understand them much better and can deal with them better?
Tell me what this horrible problem is.
Have a Nice Day
Member
Someone should make a thread for the PC beta, it's a chance for people to try out the game and all its characters for free.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
As I continue to sabotage my win/loss ratio with Kolin, I find myself frustrated with mash inputs in this game. As someone who uses the double-tap method to land confirms more easily, it can be really hard turning off that instinct for this single character.
I know this is entirely a personal issue but it's cost my a few close matches already and demoralizes me to no end.
I know this is entirely a personal issue but it's cost my a few close matches already and demoralizes me to no end.
It's my humble opinion, but I think tiers and character strengths matter more in SFV than most other fighting games.
When it's easier for top players to get being "good/decent" enough with a particular character in a game and when it's easier for them to learn all the general tools/strategies in the game... then character strength matters a lot especially when overall toolset in the game is low.
Usually one player can win over another despite character strength. There can be a difference in execution, different utilization of toolsets, wider knowledge of the game/mechanics, reflexes, fundamentals etc. But when those things are lacking or are not the focus of a game like SFV, then the strength of a character becomes more obvious because other factors are not as relevant (in some cases not relevant at all).
I think SFV more than any game has shown big jumps in player performances based on their character of choice. This isn't just about Ricky either or Chun Li being "bad" but rather the opposite spectrum as well... Xian going from 9th place FANG throughout a year to getting 1st in the first major using a stronger character. Daigo going from a respectable top 8 finisher throughout the year to finishing below Mike "Laura da best" Ross at Final Round and going 0-6 at Topanga. There are lesser examples of these as well.
When it's easier for top players to get being "good/decent" enough with a particular character in a game and when it's easier for them to learn all the general tools/strategies in the game... then character strength matters a lot especially when overall toolset in the game is low.
Usually one player can win over another despite character strength. There can be a difference in execution, different utilization of toolsets, wider knowledge of the game/mechanics, reflexes, fundamentals etc. But when those things are lacking or are not the focus of a game like SFV, then the strength of a character becomes more obvious because other factors are not as relevant (in some cases not relevant at all).
I think SFV more than any game has shown big jumps in player performances based on their character of choice. This isn't just about Ricky either or Chun Li being "bad" but rather the opposite spectrum as well... Xian going from 9th place FANG throughout a year to getting 1st in the first major using a stronger character. Daigo going from a respectable top 8 finisher throughout the year to finishing below Mike "Laura da best" Ross at Final Round and going 0-6 at Topanga. There are lesser examples of these as well.
Don't be mad at the army
Agreed.
There's no horrible problem. I was trying and apparently failing spectacularly at being humorous.
There's nothing funny about Bison.
It's because there's not a whole lot going on in SF5. There are characters with better options and no mechanics to compensate for or allow other characters to get around those options.
Oh, I legitimately couldn't figure out the problem. My bd
Yup.
Marvel
could never
He's deliciously entertaining.
SolarPowered
Member
You aren't playing the game right if you are enjoying it. Gotta stay low tier, bruh.
TheSpoiler
Member
I don't agree with the first part, but I do think character strengths matter in the sense of matchups more than other games. But that's par for the course with SF titles in general.
A few things are wrong with that. Yes, the toolsets for the characters are less complex than previous games, but it doesn't mean the variation isn't there. For example, Momo's style of Ken is more footies based and catches people on crazy confirms. Eita is a mix of crazy offense and solid defense (he just needs more time on the latter). Julio uses his v-meter on reversals, and so on. Those toolsets work differently against different characters, and depending on the person, some people might not access them in the same ways. Gootecks has more setups with his AR stuff, but LI Joe plays more solidly without it. I'd argue Gootecks crumbles too hard without that, but still.
And there's still a pretty large gulf between those who really understand the game on the pro levels and those who don't. Like when that Rashid player jabbed out Momo a few months ago on Topanga. To the normal eye, it's just a wakeup jab, but apparently that was the best option to stop Momo's Ken run without getting punished too hard in that situation, despite having EX Mixer ready. There's still a lot that goes on between two characters that has to get explored and used in this game. Shit, stopping Rog's OH mixup was just "revealed" like a few weeks ago, and anyone with a 3f jab can stop themselves from eating half the damage they'd normally take.
Daigo has been shit with Ryu for months. It doesn't suit his style of play, and that's more important than picking whatever top tier is out at the moment. Daigo moving to Guile is a better option because it suits him better, not just because Ryu is booty garbage (which is he is, but still). Even when Ryu was great, Daigo wasn't making it work at all. On the flipside, Tokido is beasting people with Akuma, who's mid-tier. Problem X does pretty well with his Birdie and Ken at tournaments. Momo struggled against arguably the strongest Rog player and someone who's top tier, but is getting about the same results as last year. Art put in a lot of work against three damn Cammy players, one of which would hit top 8 as well. He just ran over Smug a few weeks ago with Sim.
Sometimes, the players get caught up to. Part of that is the game, but there's a lot more that goes into it. Otherwise people would just pick all top five and we'd just be seeing the same damn characters all day.
Edit: Even with this game being more basic than other fighters, you still have to play it properly. The way Punk plays is based heavily on spacing, and not many pro players know how to do that, much less fight against it. There's still a lot of room to grow.
That being said, yo Capcom, gimme more v-trigger things, alright? Let's get some spice in here at the end of the season.
Saturday
sixteen-bit
Member
April Fool's, breh
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Keep at it, I had the same problem because I also double tap, you'll adjust eventually and get the bonus of much cleaner inputs.
TheSpoiler
Member
None of this really disproves or counters his point.
There's less variation due to less tools. People being able to carve out some more limited variation doesn't mean there's less of it overall. People don't know things but eventually they will (especially with all the tournaments going on) and variation will decrease even more.
I'm not saying game is dead or anything, but this is heading in that direction where character strengths will matter more.
CountBlack
Member
I agree with you.
I really don't like the bland/barebones direction they took with the game since the betas. They really lowered the potential some characters had by taking away a lot of things and giving them not much in return. The only character I feel like they really wanted to keep in tact with V was Urien, he might have the best overall design from specials/normals in the game imo. Most of the other characters are just so basic and lacking of much depth. Really one track minded characters.
Also SFV is such a snowball game where you can play a strong game for the first 60 seconds then you get clipped once and gg.
Capcom's direction they've taken with AA's are really all over the place. They wanted to get rid of AA jabs, they only really nerfed Alex' and now Juri's. Tons of other characters can still do it. Chun's st.LK was really good yes, but making it 5f and not be able to dash under was enough already IMO, not making it whiff or get stuffed half the time.
TheSpoiler
Member
I probably misunderstood that post and wrote a longwinded form of agreeing. But I think straight matchups are more important than tiers tbh. Daigo was booty because he wasn't play Ryu when Ryu was good, not because of the lacking toolset. While Chun probably won't break top 8, Ricki's Chun isn't as good as Go1's Chun is right now.
That's exactly why people are picking up more than one character to cover their bases. It happened in SF4 as well, and right when that happens and people start hitting that threshold, Capcom needs to mess with the v-system to add that spice. It's easier to get there than SF4 because SF4 had the buffer of FADC stuff at bay.
If you ain't number one, you ain't having fun.
But that was more of an example that his performance wasn't the character's fault but his own.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Meanwhile the newer dlc characters (akuma, Kolin) have staggeringly good AA jabs.
Like, I use Kolin, and her jab feels Ryu s1 status good sometimes
Necalli is like the best SF character invented in a while.
you all making unga bunga jokes, but he's fairly easy to use his combo's aren't long and easy to learn and it easy to see " oh I can do this into this " with the character. I used to feel the same about juri in 4, but they made her toolset just kind of worse in 5, I hope necalli comes back in future titles
When the pc beta?
you all making unga bunga jokes, but he's fairly easy to use his combo's aren't long and easy to learn and it easy to see " oh I can do this into this " with the character. I used to feel the same about juri in 4, but they made her toolset just kind of worse in 5, I hope necalli comes back in future titles
When the pc beta?
CountBlack
Member
Yea it really makes absolutely NOGODDAMNSENSE but I've learned to lower my expectations from 2017 Capcom. They planned to take them out with S2.. then gave it to characters in S2
I feel like they're just doing things without much thought.
sounds about right.
Necalli really is prehistoric Seth.
Also I think if (when hue) USF4 is played 15 years from now like in a Co-Op Cup type fashion, it'll be all Seth's. Seth was truly the endgame for the SF4 franchise tbh. Evil Ryu was good, Elena was good but Seth.. if you could play clean enough, he's perfect.
I played a set against Gonzales' Seth at Capcom Cup 2 years ago.. lordT. It felt like I was in the corner against Mika except from like full screen. Everything was the wrong answer, capcom y u do dis.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Necalli is butts. Truthfact.
A SF character is a personality first and foremost.
Necalli is totally devoid of personality. He is incredibly generic.
Yea it really makes absolutely NOGODDAMNSENSE but I've learned to lower my expectations from 2017 Capcom. They planned to take them out with S2.. then gave it to characters in S2
I feel like they're just doing things without much thought.
It feels like miscommunication somewhere
Nerf Alex's aa jab, nerf ryu's aa jab, chun's aa short, leave juri, other characters
Next patch, nerf rashid's aa short. Include akuma with his pretty good aa jab.
Nerf juri's aa jab. Include kolin with a ridiculous aa jab
like, should I wait until two more patches where they get rid of kolin's aa jab? is this really what they wanted?
Zombegoast
Member
Im leaving Nash for Cammy. For real this time, The April patch does nothing for him.
Jaded Alyx
Member
"This game will unlock in approximately less than an hour"
What is this tomfoolery
What is this tomfoolery
TheSpoiler
Member
You joke but even hitting LK into ex cmd throw has gotten a lot of mileage.
Necalli is great. My only problem is that he's the most linear character in the game. Makes it real hard to stick with him when the only times I see him being played somewhat differently is when Hatianti takes the wheel.
But he's still slipping the radar when it comes to nerfs. How do you get away with it.
Those last two matches that didn't matter.
Ouch.
Megawarrior
Member
Ya'll slandering necalli now?
maybe they overcompensated with the S1 characters being butts generally speaking, by going easy on preemptive nerfs on the S2 guys
I think it is clear that Capcom balances the game thinking on the overall game, not just the top tiers offline prolevel
the game is 99.999% played online, by people in bronze, and they sometimes take into account what's going on there too
not that this reasoning explains everything wrong with capcom's approach to balance in SFV, but you gotta accept that they aren't balancing the game so the top levels will have a perfectly balanced experience
I think it is clear that Capcom balances the game thinking on the overall game, not just the top tiers offline prolevel
the game is 99.999% played online, by people in bronze, and they sometimes take into account what's going on there too
not that this reasoning explains everything wrong with capcom's approach to balance in SFV, but you gotta accept that they aren't balancing the game so the top levels will have a perfectly balanced experience
It's between cmd throw and st. mk or something frame trappy. Mad good button at +2
So, Riot balancing
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Leave necalli alone
I think its interesting but isn't explored, he's ermac but they didn't do anything with that concept. I've said before that they should have been remixing different voices from warriors he's absorbed, but again its too late for that. I'm a fan of the concept, and his design, and costumes designs are quite fantastic. So I dig him, but that's just me.
sixteen-bit
Member
his battle outfit is cool
TheSpoiler
Member
Like why wake up around Necalli? Just better to lie on the floor and give up.
all his outfits are cool
His outfit good bad ratio is now like rogs in 4, all good
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