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Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads

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Dereck

Member
It's refreshing to see high level Tekken 7 matches without balcony, wall, or floor breaks getting in the way.

Ayyy, Malgu

Two things you knew that I didn't yet.

iAlTl5g.gif


Combo-ing out of a spring kick

Back turned 10-hit combo has an interruption animation.

rUp3Cey.gif
 

sasuke_91

Member
Oh man, I thought you were my crew. =(
You guys gotta have mercy on me.

Sorry if that came out too harsh. And I don't want to be mean or anthing, but you always kept telling us how you wanted to get good at Tekken yet I've never seen you make an effort to achieve that goal. And now you're telling us it's too hard and you can't become a pro.
Everyone in this thread has been willing to help, myself included. I had to give you my PSN three times before you bothered to add me and we never even played once.
If you don't have the time to invest into a fighting game that's another thing. Everyone knows how time-consuming this game is, but that won't change with Tekken 7.
 

AAK

Member
Interesting, nice catch bout.


They ALREADY HAVE an animation that could work or a BT tail spin screw attack! Why not use it!!!

LOL! Those are awesome tournament names. (thumbs up)

Speaking of tournament names, did anyone ever sign up for a tournament under an alternate name?

The Spirit of Billy Mays was my alt. tournament name for about half a year.

LOL, You're right, *google translates page*

silica - Alisa, haengbokhaejyeo - Lars

As for the handles... lol no. I could never think of something creative that I knew I could stick with. Just went boring and stuck with my initials :p

But I did have to make a new account for this one forum I got banned from. The name I made there was Hybrid of Steel. A time when I was a hardcore metal head lol.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Tenstrings had own back turned effects since T3.

Edit: You mean it flops differently. Yeah that could be new.

Beat reranker today, good feeling. With Angel/Devil even. Yeah now you have billion wins and 7 loses, go back to your real account. :p
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
Pardon me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is Harada seriously saying that they don't want to add Tekken 4 customizations because that game has a bad reputation?

https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/661234632155754496

Using bing translate it comes out like this

But that time reputation bad.
Consider. RT @karasuba_hound some day hope the reluctance of 4 when added to the King. Beard is also useless at the very least reluctance.

Run through google translate it comes out like this

At that time, but I reputation was bad there. . . Think of you.
RT @karasuba_hound back hair at the time of the 4 King someday I We hope that will be added .... Beard is the at least reluctance is also a useless ....

Between the two, I think you can get the gist of what's being said.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Harada's hate for T4 is known. He burns every bridge connecting to T4. He doesn't listen when fans say there were good parts in T4 too. For Harada T4 is a sin.

He's always baffled when people say they like T4. Like that one time when he visited US at some major and people were playing T4.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
Jeeze, talk about an old shame. Wish he had a slightly more open mind about including things that came from the dreaded Tekken 4.
 

Pachimari

Member
Sorry if that came out too harsh. And I don't want to be mean or anthing, but you always kept telling us how you wanted to get good at Tekken yet I've never seen you make an effort to achieve that goal. And now you're telling us it's too hard and you can't become a pro.
Everyone in this thread has been willing to help, myself included. I had to give you my PSN three times before you bothered to add me and we never even played once.
If you don't have the time to invest into a fighting game that's another thing. Everyone knows how time-consuming this game is, but that won't change with Tekken 7.

I can see were you, and maybe others, are coming from. I guess I got demotivated with how hard things were to learn, and thus I got easily pulled away to do other games, like FIFA (which always pulls me away from other games), that has more of my interest.

When Tekken 7 comes around, I will have to make up my mind, as to if I want to play it casually or get good at it.
 

DEATH™

Member
Not being a Harada apologist but please, don't blame everything on Harada... Tekken 4 hurt arcade income alot. Adding things T4-related (whether its good or not) will be a hard sell to shareholders/stockholders/bosses, no matter how irrational it sounds.

Whether Harada wants to add T4-related stuff or not, saying that you are gonna do it at your project proposal/pitch will get you less money for your budget if you even get your project approved at all...
 
DEATH™;183934607 said:
Not being a Harada apologist but please, don't blame everything on Harada... Tekken 4 hurt arcade income alot. Adding things T4-related (whether its good or not) will be a hard sell to shareholders/stockholders/bosses, no matter how irrational it sounds.

Whether Harada wants to add T4-related stuff or not, saying that you are gonna do it at your project proposal/pitch will get you less money for your budget if you even get your project approved at all...
lol

Tekken 4 outsold all SF3 console sales combined and you don't see Ono getting all in his feelings about past letdowns. Ono's out there getting paper using SF3 stuff in SF4 and SF5. Meanwhile Namco's probably looking at Harada's refusal to use anything Tekken 4 related like.
 

Numb

Member
lol

Tekken 4 outsold all SF3 console sales combined and you don't see Ono getting all in his feelings about past letdowns. Ono's out there getting paper using SF3 stuff in SF4 and SF5. Meanwhile Namco's probably looking at Harada's refusal to use anything Tekken 4 related like.

HA!
 

DEATH™

Member
lol

Tekken 4 outsold all SF3 console sales combined and you don't see Ono getting all in his feelings about past letdowns. Ono's out there getting paper using SF3 stuff in SF4 and SF5. Meanwhile Namco's probably looking at Harada's refusal to use anything Tekken 4 related like.

I said ARCADE income, not console...

T4 singlehandedly ruined arcades on that time considering how expensive the cabs were, how imbalanced it was, how too different it felt, and how it had low replayability compared to the previous game (TTT1). It didn't help that people want their mains on that time.

It's easy to say do this or do that, but try doing it with company money and things might get a bit messy.
 

DEATH™

Member
Why not set up an official poll to gauge fan interest?

1. Cause a internet-savvy minority always take over... i.e. Tekken Nation Jun fans

2. A internet poll cannot represent all Tekken fans all over the world. You can only get as much for each region.

Lets be honest here. In hindsight, the Tekken Team DOES TAKE FEEDBACK. Remember complaints about T4 not having their mains and having iffy movement? T5 movement was awesome and (almost) everyone came back. People complained about movement too hard and noobs can't stand a chance? T6 nerfed movement and added rage, Lars and Bob. People complaining that Jun and Kuni isn't in the game still? People want Ogre1, PJack, Alex, Dr. B, even darn FOREST LAW of all chars? And guys like aris proposing to have a training mode? They gave it all that they could.

They have probably taken much feedback as they could and they will weigh which ones to please first. Guess what, currently, we got a measly roster (complained about roster size) with chars full of anime designs (we want animu), with the OG mains being replaced (people complaining the game ain't fresh).

Given that the Tekken Team goes either too overboard or too lacking in delivery, I gotta tell you that they are listening. The problem is most of the time we do not know what we want overall as a whole fanbase. People want to reduce chars but do not want their mains cut. People want a fresh start but complains about the new designs. Someone over here even proposed to take away customization. Just imagine the outrage it will cause if that actually happens!

TLDR Think what you guys ask for...


If I am Harada Imma be like "TTT3 with 90 chars and in PC you suckers. I don't care if you like it or not! Enjoy your last Tekken! Imma retire now"
 
DEATH™;183946190 said:
I said ARCADE income, not console...

T4 singlehandedly ruined arcades on that time considering how expensive the cabs were, how imbalanced it was, how too different it felt, and how it had low replayability compared to the previous game (TTT1). It didn't help that people want their mains on that time.

It's easy to say do this or do that, but try doing it with company money and things might get a bit messy.
LOL^2. SF3's arcade reputation was even worse. It's blamed for sending the franchise into a ten year hibernation and killing arcades outside of Asia for all the reasons you listed and even more. It has nothing to do with any of that, because it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Harada hates Tekken 4 because it's his biggest failure. That's it.

Unfortunately his hurt feelings over the game's reception won't allow him to separate the good from the bad.
 

DEATH™

Member
LOL^2. SF3's arcade reputation was even worse. It's blamed for sending the franchise into a ten year hibernation and killing arcades outside of Asia for all the reasons you listed and even more.

Then try saying that on your pitch with your shareholders as a developer. Let's see if you can persuade them. I'm not saying you will/will not be successful, but hey, easier said than done...
 
DEATH™;183951149 said:
Then try saying that on your pitch with your shareholders as a developer. Let's see if you can persuade them. I'm not saying you will/will not be successful, but hey, easier said than done...
"Hey guys, we all know the easiest way to make easy money post launch is by selling costumes."

*Pulls out sales chart of SF DLC and DOA DLC*

"I suggest we sell DLC costumes from past games because we don't even need to pay a designer to make something new AND we'll hit the consumers right in the nostalgia!"

*High fives all around*

See, this works because shareholders don't give a shit about Tekken 4 or any other Tekken to know which costume comes from what game on sight. Also, lol @ you thinking Harada or any other producer is taking details on that level into a shareholder meeting and begging for development dollars.
 

DEATH™

Member
"Hey guys, we all know the easiest way to make easy money post launch is by selling costumes."

*Pulls out sales chart of SF DLC and DOA DLC*

"I suggest we sell DLC costumes from past games because we don't even need to pay a designer to make something new AND we'll hit the consumers right in the nostalgia!"

*High fives all around*

See, this works because shareholders don't give a shit about Tekken 4 or any other Tekken to know which costume comes from what game on sight. Also, lol @ you thinking Harada or any other producer is taking details on that level into a shareholder meeting and begging for development dollars.

Be careful what you ask for... Let's keep it at that.

And yes, they get drilled all the time, not just Tekken Team but every single corporate company in general. Don't get fooled that shareholders, consumers, and especially, your bosses do not have any say on your game development.
 
DEATH™;183954017 said:
Be careful what you ask for... Let's keep it at that.

And yes, they get drilled all the time, not just Tekken Team but every single corporate company in general. Don't get fooled that shareholders, consumers, and especially, your bosses do not have any say on your game development.
I'm not asking for anything. I'm saying that Harada doesn't like Tekken 4 and you claiming that it's because shareholders, or bosses, or consumers, or whoever else you drag into this to defend his decision making is silly. I didn't say they have no say, I said that level of say that you seem to be inferring where you think every single artistic decision has to be cleared by shareholders. It doesn't. If it did, Ono never would have gotten Birdie into SF5. Shimbori wouldn't have gotten Leon into DOA5. Unless everything at Namco runs in such an assbackwards way that is counter to how other companies do business then I have to assume the buck stops with Harada.
 
I'm not asking for anything. I'm saying that Harada doesn't like Tekken 4 and you claiming that it's because shareholders, or bosses, or consumers, or whoever else you drag into this to defend his decision making is silly. I didn't say they have no say, I said that level of say that you seem to be inferring where you think every single artistic decision has to be cleared by shareholders. It doesn't. If it did, Ono never would have gotten Birdie into SF5. Shimbori wouldn't have gotten Leon into DOA5. Unless everything at Namco runs in such an assbackwards way that is counter to how other companies do business then I have to assume the buck stops with Harada.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised given SCV and SCIIHD but hey....


But I do agree that Harada doesn't see the merit because its a failure of his. Even though there was a lot of good stuff in T4.

And I'd pay for old customs....
 
Harada is stubborn as hell there's no denying it. He wont budge on his position on anything regarding Tekken 4 which is kinda silly.

It was a flop and the mechanics sucked but the story and outfits were on point.
 

Numb

Member
Harada is stubborn as hell there's no denying it. He wont budge on his position on anything regarding Tekken 4 which is kinda silly.

It was a flop and the mechanics sucked but the story and outfits were on point.

Separate yourself and take the good things about something and put it in a present thing youa re doing.
Too hard.
 
Separate yourself and take the good things about something and put it in a present thing youa re doing.
Too hard.

Seems so, I mean not all of it was bad and trying new ideas can sometimes lead to failure.
I just don't see why he can't dust off his shoulders and utilize certain things from the experience.
 

Vazra

irresponsible vagina leak
Harada is stubborn as hell there's no denying it. He wont budge on his position on anything regarding Tekken 4 which is kinda silly.

It was a flop and the mechanics sucked but the story and outfits were on point.

Actually there are ideas that were good but simply poorly implemented. I like the more modern fashion of the game and some of the stages were actually interesting. Tekken at this point doesn't seem to evolve much with the times as other fighters and now some are even changing looks while keeping them close to what the character would wear.

Maybe at this point they could do a new IP using the skeleton of Tekken 3 and try new things that they are afraid to try on Tekken now since it seems they are afraid of alienating fans.
 

DEATH™

Member
I'm not asking for anything. I'm saying that Harada doesn't like Tekken 4 and you claiming that it's because shareholders, or bosses, or consumers, or whoever else you drag into this to defend his decision making is silly. I didn't say they have no say, I said that level of say that you seem to be inferring where you think every single artistic decision has to be cleared by shareholders. It doesn't. If it did, Ono never would have gotten Birdie into SF5. Shimbori wouldn't have gotten Leon into DOA5. Unless everything at Namco runs in such an assbackwards way that is counter to how other companies do business then I have to assume the buck stops with Harada.

Yes, the concept of shareholders/bosses keeping silly notions about stuff does sound silly, AND YET ITS REAL. There are many bosses/people out there whose out of touch with the current product and the consumer base (big example: WWE). This thing happens, even at looking how silly this was. You can say it runs backwards (it could be a legit argument) but it's still a reality.

Of course, power-play is involved too. Lucky for Ono that SFxT failure was all behind him and he got a mostly western-based development so he can do as much (I don't even think that Birdie is a bad choice for a roster either so that helps?).

I do not know on how much Harada got involved in decision making of this game, but considering the track record, him previously stating that he let the team do their own thing in T7 when he focused on Pokken, and the criticism of Tag 2, and I want to give him the benefit of a doubt. I don't excuse him from doing BS PR and questioning the direction of the game itself, but there are waaaay too many factors involved to just put on the blame on one person. Cause honestly, I applaud him for TTT2 being awesome, for having balls against DLC issues, and dealing with a rabid fanbase for all these years.
 
Actually there are ideas that were good but simply poorly implemented. I like the more modern fashion of the game and some of the stages were actually interesting. Tekken at this point doesn't seem to evolve much with the times as other fighters and now some are even changing looks while keeping them close to what the character would wear.

Maybe at this point they could do a new IP using the skeleton of Tekken 3 and try new things that they are afraid to try on Tekken now since it seems they are afraid of alienating fans.

A new IP seems to be a good idea at this point.

If Tekken X Street Fighter still exists (lol) then I can see it being a breeding ground for new ideas.
 

AAK

Member
After Harada//MM made their excuses for removing all the black characters from Tekken, you guys should know by now not to take anything he says in public when questioned about something T7 is lacking seriously.

Just like when him and MMurray were defending the lack of black characters, it's obvious now that they're pulling any excuse when a feature is asked about that will not be in the game. Both of those guys are sentient human beings and I'm sure they understand the absurdity of their statements... but in the end they're good and loyal employees first and foremost. And like what every loyal employee does they carry out their lip service to defend Namco.

Regarding that tweet I'm sure Harada knows at this point the fans enjoyed the aspect of Tekken 4 where the aesthetics were presented in a way which the game actually respected itself. But that apparently wasn't the plan/concept for Tekken 7 and I'm almost positive he or any other Namco employee that has permission to speak on behalf of the company will pull whatever excuse out the bag. Just like how they did the whole "no black characters in Tekken 7" innocent face facade.

EDIT:

This isn't the first time either, Harada also defended the removal of 2P outfits as well.
 

AAK

Member
Wait, what did Harada say about black people?

It was mostly Micheal Murray talking extra after Harada but it was something along the lines of ..."We don't know much or can relate to Black people so we didn't want to risk making a design"... when they could have easily just said "Sorry, we didn't plan for one yet. An oversight on our part, we'll take this suggestion moving forward."

And this was months after Shaheen was revealed that went though an exhaustive design phase involving the entire community.

EDIT: I should re-iterate that I'm not just trying to talk shit about MM/Harada. I'm saying that everybody that listened to them on that stream knew it was all such BS and it's something one just pulls out to make a random excuse. It's an automatic defense mechanism when you're asked something you can't deliver on yet you need to justify. And the point I'm trying to make, is that these Harada comments constantly being down on Tekken 4 is another version of the automatic defense mechanism since Namco won't deliver on a Tekken 4 aesthetic that the people on twitter are asking for.
 

Numb

Member
Even funnier when you consider the fact that Michael Murray is from Atlanta, affectionately referred to here as the black mecca.

Master realy killing it today.
Just ask for input from outside sources if you can't handle it yourselves Namco. Shaheen is like the coolest guy.
 

DEATH™

Member
About skin color...

https://www.facebook.com/michael.murray.31149/posts/10207740122730565

Posted by Michael Murray

I'm only going to write this once. This is a post about TEKKEN, so if that doesn't apply to you, please ignore.

There is a certain individual who is lying about what Harada and I said about how characters are chosen for the game. They are chosen on popularity (meaning how often they are played compared to other characters), not by race. This person lied about the comments made and made inflammatory comments towards me to further their own agenda. Being in the spotlight, I can tolerate criticism, but not personal attacks that are out of line.

People who knew me growing up, and who knew my close friends that I hung out with, would paint quite a different picture than the one he is trying to paint. I don't even want to give him the attention, but TEKKEN has a very multicultural audience and I want to assure everyone I judge them by their words and actions, not by their gender, religion, or color of their skin.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Tek...otal_comments=182&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}

(Inside KTA, bolded emphasis mine)

The problem is, it costs so much to develop a character (animations, character model, textures, facial modeling & animation, debugging hitboxes, coding), that we have a limit to how many we can make. So these resources wasted on a character that is hardly used, could be better spent on some other aspect of the game. And just because they were in a previous game doesn't mean we can just copy and paste, especially this time since it is the first time using the Unreal Engine. Popularity is the main factor, but there are others. We try to represent a variety of play styles as well. Even then, unfortunately, we weren't able to represent all the play styles we wanted. It all comes down to coming up with a list of game features, a necessary roster, under the budget that the company will approve, that we can create in the necessary time frame. With all of that stuff to balance (not game balance), getting the game out is difficult alone, so you can see how there is no room in the discussion for "hey, let's take out all the black characters". Not really a priority. Harada and the team are trying their best to satisfy all of the requests of the community, our company, the market, and the operators/retailers. I know that doesn't matter at the end to the consumer, and it shouldn't, but just know that there aren't any hidden agendas.

--------

I mentioned this in that thread but maybe its worth repeating, but Unreal Engine runs on C++, which, although powerful, is darn hard programming language, and based on those words of his, I assumed that they are struggling with both the language and the engine too. This matters because you pay people, and those moolah was spent trying to figure out how the engine works instead of actually making the game.
 

AAK

Member
^^^
Those are more acceptable explanations.... what they said at EVO wasn't.

And I'm sure if Harada had time to think and articulate the reality of the situation like how MM did on KTA, he could make an acceptable reply to the Tekken 4 aesthetic request (i.e. Namco does not have the resources now to do it) rather than what Creaking quoted.

Again, going back to the main crux of why I posted the above: anything they say in replies on twitter, etc.... don't take seriously.
 

Numb

Member
Repping a variety of fighting styles one as important as muay thai. Replace the black dude(popular and used ) with a another person. Skin texture,expression yadda yadda must be harder on him. Marduk? Turn that dude into something that escaped from a lab and is unrecogizable. Eddy and Christie? where they at? Some people think capos owning them when picturing Tekken and even Wesley snipes didn't make it in. Using popularity isn't a true gauge. Especially as used since tiers matter. We just gonna get the most used guys cos they were good?

Sure they got stuff planned in the future that we dont know of and Mike and Harada aren't at all like that. Just a string of bad beats after another.
sorry if i came off grumpier than the usual joking self. really late.

-------

Can't believe RIP is still using those stupid cake and paul on crotch customs after all these years.
The commitment.
 

DEATH™

Member
^^^
Those are more acceptable explanations.... what they said at EVO wasn't.

And I'm sure if Harada had time to think and articulate the reality of the situation like how MM did on KTA, he could make an acceptable reply to the Tekken 4 aesthetic request (i.e. Namco does not have the resources now to do it) rather than what Creaking quoted.

Again, going back to the main crux of why I posted the above: anything they say in replies on twitter, etc.... don't take seriously.

That is the "I had enough" moment of MM, and he even said since he's addressing the troll (the troll came out of that thread), might as we address them honestly. Of course we do not know if there are any consequences by the PR dept. because of that.

Anyway, even if you do not disagree with some of the stuff happening, please have respect for Harada and Murray. Those guys are humans too...
 

Numb

Member
Again, going back to the main crux of why I posted the above: anything they say in replies on twitter, etc.... don't take seriously.

Indeed. Everyone is feeling it on all sides nowadays.
Gotta be real careful to what is given any attention.
 

AAK

Member
DEATH™;183971168 said:
Anyway, even if you do not disagree with some of the stuff happening, please have respect for Harada and Murray. Those guys are humans too...

That is exactly what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to make everyone separate Harada/MM the individual from Harada/MM the Namco employee. The stuff we hear from their official twitter accounts, the EVO interviews, public appearances they are the Namco employees. And we should take it as official PR.

When they make personal messages in other avenues (like the MM KTA post) we can finally see them as individuals. It's coherent, honest dialogue... and not baseless excuses we saw elsewhere. So again, going back to the post Creaking made, that's all Namco PR and not Harada the individual.
 

Numb

Member
Harada is such a huge personality and open dude mostly that you sometimes forget he still works there and not everything goes through him at all.
 

AAK

Member
And I should also reiterate before it leaves this context, there are many things that you CAN take seriously. When Harada's twitter says something tangible like "there's going to be an revision followed by an expansion for Tekken", that's something you can take literally.

But when that official twitter is trying to justify things fans are asking about which won't appear in the game like 2P attires, Black characters, T4 aesthetics, etc. you can't expect an honest answer from a PR account. Just remember that context when I'm saying to not take it seriously.
 
Even funnier when you consider the fact that Michael Murray is from Atlanta, affectionately referred to here as the black mecca.

Which is hilarious cause at Evo he had to nerve to say he lived in Japan for x amount of years so he didn't know.
Like come on son you were better off keeping your trap shut.
 

sasuke_91

Member
I can see were you, and maybe others, are coming from. I guess I got demotivated with how hard things were to learn, and thus I got easily pulled away to do other games, like FIFA (which always pulls me away from other games), that has more of my interest.

When Tekken 7 comes around, I will have to make up my mind, as to if I want to play it casually or get good at it.

I'm glad you understand and didn't take it the wrong way. I've hit a wall in Tekken so many times already. Improved a lot in a very short time and stopped there. That was very frustrating, but once you overcome that you start improving again with very satisfying results :D

South American Capo vs European Mishima:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04g6ucrhRUA

That was one crazy match. And yeah, fighting Capos with Mishimas is hard.
Harry Potter has a crazy wavedash and execution. I don't know many pad players who can do that.
 

AAK

Member
Most interesting part for me was how Abel dropped the game winning combo in the 4th round of the 1st game. Had he done that it would have been over. But Harry Potter also dropped a game winning combo in the 4th game as well that Abel made a comeback from.

More Capo tomfoolery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNeCSTTkcmE

3W9GoCi.gif


The simple fact all this stuff is possible in a 3D game yet still balanced for competitive play to this day impresses me. And seeing the development team capable of all this is what initially put such high expectations for when they would make a brand new title.
 
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