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The Evil Within (PS3/360/PC/NextGen, idtech5, Tango/Bethesda, 2014): [Up: New Info]

Never understood the hate for shooting and moving at the same time. Just create heavier penalties to accuracy when moving or not having taken the time to aim. Also, stop giving players too much ammo and making enemies too easy to put down by limiting ammo and by requiring more accurate shooting. Moving and shooting at the same time is the standard for action games, so why put people off by forcing them to adjust to an arguably more clunky control scheme when the game design can compensate for that unreality or superhuman-ness of the ability afforded to them in most games? Lots of games have employed this approach in the past and many of the most popular games now do so.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
Never understood the hate for shooting and moving. Just create heavier penalties to accuracy when moving or not having taken the time to aim. Also, stop giving players too much ammo and making enemies too easy to put down by limiting ammo and by requiring more accurate shooting. Moving and shooting at the same time is the standard for action games, so why put people off by forcing them to adjust to an arguably more clunky control scheme when the game design can compensate for that unreality or superhuman-ness of the ability afforded to them in most games?
"standard" (for game design) shouldn't exist. Homogenization is bad.
 
Never understood the hate for shooting and moving at the same time. Just create heavier penalties to accuracy when moving or not having taken the time to aim. Also, stop giving players too much ammo and making enemies too easy to put down by limiting ammo and by requiring more accurate shooting. Moving and shooting at the same time is the standard for action games, so why put people off by forcing them to adjust to an arguably more clunky control scheme when the game design can compensate for that unreality or superhuman-ness of the ability afforded to them in most games?

Agreed. The controls in Dead Space were perfect in my opinion and far better than RE.
 

abadguy

Banned
I know what he meant; that's why I said I hope it doesn't let him move and shoot, since the controls in RE4 are perfect.

Bad choices shouldn't exist.

And if you're sitting in one place like a sitting duck, you're playing it wrong. Utilize the quick turn and keep your distance.

Or at least they would have been perfect if you could move and shoot. Not saying it should have been "run and gun" type thing, but being able to move, even slowly while shooting would be an improvement. Of all the problems RE6 had, that was one of the things it got right.
 

stktt

Banned
I know what he meant; that's why I said I hope it doesn't let him move and shoot, since the controls in RE4 are perfect.

Bad choices shouldn't exist.

And if you're sitting in one place like a sitting duck, you're playing it wrong. Utilize the quick turn and keep your distance.


What if the game allows players to move and shoot, while you, someone that dislikes the concept, chooses to continue only shooting while stationary?
 

Nemesis_

Member
Homogenization is bad.

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Wynnebeck

Banned
Aww man! Just saw those screens and I can already feel my heart pounding. I'm no puss, but dark, creepy games like this freak me out lol. It took me a hot minute to get through the original Bioshock and Doom 3 had me turning on the lights on several occasions.
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
Move and shoot, still and shoot, as long as the game is designed with it in mind I don't care. I do lean to it being move-and-shoot since Vanquish and Shadows of the Damned were as such, but we will have to see.

I'm much more interested in the other elements of the game, I absolutely trust Mikami when it comes to Third-Person Shooting.
 

mattp

Member
So the best tactic is to turn around and stay in one place like a sitting duck, not move away and shoot?

My point is players should be given a choice, if you don't wanna move, that's your choice.

yeah but it can't be a choice. the game has to be designed around the controls

would bionic commando be better if you could jump?
the stages are designed around not being able to jump

it's a videogame, not real life. why can't you just shoot or smash through locked doors?
because it's a game
limitations are what make a game


sure, you can not like the design choice of no moving while shooting, but if they just made it a toggle in re4 the game would be way too fucking easy. it wasn't designed with those controls in mind

as long as the enemy encounters are designed around whatever controls they decide, the game will be great and i'm fine with it
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
What if the game allows players to move and shoot, while you, someone that dislikes the concept, chooses to continue only shooting while stationary?
Because it is not my job to play game designer and pretend things that exist don't exist. If the game lets me move and shoot, I will do that. So it shouldn't. Not to mention that good games are designed around their controls.

Cue the irrelevant "you're weak and can't resist the OPTION!!!" argument.
 

Shurayuki

Member
We already got the gist of it, still I had a little shot at a bit of a translation for the rest from famitsu:

"[The return of pure Survival Horror]
From the inventor of Survival Horror himself, Shinji Mikami, who knows how to freeze your body solid with fear, then crush it in a pleasant feeling, a new game appears before us. Trying to survive as long as possible, while using the limited resources available, you will experience the perfect blend of horror and action through unfathomable fear.
Trying to survive in a world full of suffering, the tension and anxiety will leave you exasperated!

[Go up against cruel traps and puzzles]
While struggling to stay alive, you will face cruel and terrifying traps that defy your imagination and cunning mechanisms. While the traps may easily cause the player to die, sometimes he will be able to make use of them himself, allowing him push forward through his enemies.

[Invisible fear in an uncertain world]

A mysterious and wicked dread drives the player to the wall, while warping his surroundings and twisting him around in a maelstrom. Backgrounds like corridors and walls, doors, rooms, buildings, as well as nature itself will transform in realtime according to the players actions. Danger is also waiting to swoop down on the player anytime, anywhere.

[A Supernova of Horror materializes]
Through carefully crafted backgrounds, involving characters, a twisting story interwoven with the world, the player will invariably be drawn in to the world while the fear and tension keeps building up. Only 'Psychobreak' will be able to provide the great feeling of overcoming this fear."

Does famitsu have ninja? Nobody kill me pls.
 
"standard" (for game design) shouldn't exist. Homogenization is bad.
In the most general sense, sure. Taking well-understood control schemes is not a bad thing on its own if the game design takes it into account. You want people to feel comfortable with their own control over themselves in the game in order to maximize the effect of taking it away from them when they make critical mistakes or lose their concentration in an important moment of gameplay.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
In the most general sense, sure. Taking well-understood control schemes is not a bad thing on its own if the game design takes it into account. You want people to feel comfortable with their own control over themselves in the game in order to maximize the effect of taking it away from them when they make critical mistakes or lose their concentration in an important moment of gameplay.
Yes, but RE5 already did this while retaining no move and shoot by putting aim mode and shoot on the shoulder buttons.

*in games
 

Anteater

Member
He was director. That doesn't entail creativity. People who've worked with him in the past have said that he wasn't directly responsible for much and most of his original ideas were shot down by others on the team.

His name carries so much weight because he's a poster boy who carries success wherever he goes. But it's not his involvement that brings success, it's his team, the ones actually doing everything creative.

He also didn't create Resident Evil. His boss and mentor Tokuro Fujiwara had more to do with it. During development of the game, Mikami's only big contributions were the real-time movies. After BH1, he became a producer and was even more removed from the creative process. He was in charge of the budget.

He's a great director who manages his team well, but when it comes to actual design or creativity, he falls pretty flat.

I don't know much about how their development works so I can't contribute, but someone already posted about this in the other thread, and here's JP's comment on your opinion on mikami to clear a few things up:

 
No matter how big/marginal the graphical leap is, "next-gen" is looking very promising with game announcements.

As a big RE4 fan, day 1.
 
Yes, but RE5 already did this while retaining no move and shoot by putting aim mode and shoot on the shoulder buttons.

As much as I think that control scheme was fine for those games, once you grew comfortable with it, I don't see why there's a reason to believe it's the only way to do it, especially when this game isn't the same thing.
 

watchdog

Member
Idtech 5? the rage engine? No thanks.

They never got it to work properly with rage after a dozen patches.

Unless you've seen the game running then I don't think it is fair to write it off just becuase it is running on id Tech 5. I'm sure there have been some improvements to the engine since RAGE. While the game launched with tons of performance problems and was nearly unplayable they were eventually able to resolve most issues people were having.
Give it a chance.
 

Anteater

Member
Idtech 5? the rage engine? No thanks.

They never got it to work properly with rage after a dozen patches.

it's heavily modified though, but I guess we don't know if it would run well on pc since they don't really have the track record of delivering their games on pcs

but I wouldn't dismiss it yet
 

Persona86

Banned
Meh, I'm just happy we have another horror game that actually sounds good, not gonna talk about controls anymore, it's giving me a headache. :)
 

Hindle

Banned
I get the impression the action will be more like Dark Souls, basically very tense and you're back is up against the wall constantly.
 
He was director. That doesn't entail creativity. People who've worked with him in the past have said that he wasn't directly responsible for much and most of his original ideas were shot down by others on the team.

His name carries so much weight because he's a poster boy who carries success wherever he goes. But it's not his involvement that brings success, it's his team (look at the credits for any of his games and you'll see quite a few familiar names), the ones actually doing everything creative.

He also didn't create Resident Evil. His boss and mentor Tokuro Fujiwara had more to do with it. During development of the game, Mikami's only big contributions were the real-time movies. After BH1, he became a producer and was even more removed from the creative process. He was in charge of the budget.

He's a great director who manages his team well, but when it comes to actual design or creativity, he falls pretty flat.



Kojima Productions is not CAPCOM and roles can be different within each company (for example, producer replaced director when BH5 was being made).

Kojima is planner/director/writer. Mikami is just director and he always has a whole team of planners. Rising was cancelled because the team didn't know what they wanted.

I understand that Mikami is a director who oversees the designers who actually come up with the creature designs, scenarios, but all I'm saying is his role as a director is why the final product is what it is today

I realize he took a producer role after BH1 which is why I was only commenting on the games he directed. Which have been great ogames(story is hit or miss)

RE5 and RE6 show that all the creative creature designs, unique scenarios and gameplay in the world doesn't mean anything if you don't have a great director to bring it all together.
 

Meelow

Banned
id-tech 5 huh,well this is a surprise.



if I'm not mistaken id-tech5 megatextures require fast ram,which is not the case with WiiU hardware.

and I don't think id even tried to update the engine to work for WiiU because Zenimax said they have no plans for Wii U

I'll leave this thread about this post.

The second reason Hines is less than elated about future platforms is that their arrival may splinter an existing audience.

Your install base always starts at zero," he said. "Then it comes out and suddenly a certain number of people buy it but it won't be the same number as the current gen. So you have divided your audience."

I'm not saying there will be a Wii U version, or it has a good chance of happening, because there's a much bigger chance of no Wii U version than a Wii U version.

But I'm saying is we should wait until we hear what "next gen consoles" will get this.
 

Anteater

Member
True enough. But the controls will actually be a deciding factor for me on whether the game is truly great.

I doubt it'll have the same controls as RE4/5 tbh, especially after vanquish and all the other survival horrors out this gen that has adapted a more streamlined controls.
 

D-e-f-

Banned
id-tech 5 huh,well this is a surprise.



if I'm not mistaken id-tech5 megatextures require fast ram,which is not the case with WiiU hardware.

and I don't think id even tried to update the engine to work for WiiU because Zenimax said they have no plans for Wii U

Just for clarity, does them using idTech5 automatically mean they're using megatextures?

And about that comment form last year, in the same interview they said next gen stuff in general is problematic but that didn't stop them from putting this on the "safe bet" next gen systems. It's really open to interpretation. Clearly the safe guess would be to say it's not hitting WiiU just going by experience but until they announce all platforms, the door remains (barely) open.
 
Just for clarity, does them using idTech5 automatically mean they're using megatextures?

And about that comment form last year, in the same interview they said next gen stuff in general is problematic but that didn't stop them from putting this on the "safe bet" next gen systems. It's really open to interpretation. Clearly the safe guess would be to say it's not hitting WiiU just going by experience but until they announce all platforms, the door remains (barely) open.

With what we know about the engine, it does.
 
OMG this looks amazing....this is exactly what the survival horror genre needs.

Shinji Mikami is god. Take my money now and holy shit next gen too.

tumblr_mgjlhxAqJZ1rs2yzgo1_500.gif
 
I was yay at survival horror then nay at the mention of action.

I think it's fantastic that action is being incorporated into the game. I really look forward to a game that is able to create genuine creeps without having so much of that hinging on a frustrating control setup. Just because I can actually control my character doesn't mean the game can't be designed around this and still pull off survival horror.
 
This looks like something the horror genre needs. I hope its as unforgiving, and twisted as they make it out to be! I have to wonder if I want to get it on current gen or wait. I probably won't be able to wait.
 
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