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The Football (Soccer) Thread - Season 04/05

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Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
The BBC has a great podcast about the transfer market called Rumour Mill. It's a good listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/rumourmill.shtml

Falch what do PSV fans think of DeMarcus Beasley so far? Sounds liket the midfield is getting crowded. And I've been on holiday for a week, did y'all talk about next season's EPL fixtures? Wigan is playing Chelsea on the first matchday.

Saturday 13 August:
A Villa v Bolton
Arsenal v N'castle
Everton v Man Utd
Fulham v Birm'ham
M'brough v Liv'pool
Man City v W.B.A.
Portsm'h v Tot'ham
Sun'land v Charlton
West Ham v Blackb'n
Wigan v Chelsea
 

CelticFC#1

Free Scotland in 2008
Gerrard Nears Anfield Exit

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Steven Gerrard looks to be on his way out of Anfield after his agent told Sky Sports News that talks over a new Liverpool deal have stalled, and are unlikely to be re-opened.

Media speculation has intensified over the weekend after a reported fall-out between the Liverpool skipper and the club's officials.

Talks over a new deal were said to have hit a major stumbling block and now Gerrard's agent has confirmed the troubles.

Struan Marshall told Sky Sports News that not only have talks stalled with Liverpool, they are unlikely to be re-opened.

"Talks with Liverpool have stalled over a new contract for Steven Gerrard and are unlikely to be reopened," Marshall told Sky Sports News.

Gerrard was eager to sign a new contract with The Reds after lifting the UEFA Champions League trophy in dramatic fashion in Istanbul.

However, it is Liverpool's reluctance to offer a fresh deal that has reportedly angered the dynamic midfield man.

Talks began last Monday when the players returned for pre-season training, and initial discussions were said to have been positive.

However, talks were said to have stalled on Friday and reports in Spain have suggested that Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez wants to cash-in on him to strengthen his squad.

The relationship between the two now seems to have worsened and comments from his agent seem to signal that a new deal will not now be agreed.

Gerrard still has two years left on his current deal but The Reds will have to cash-in on him this summer to recoup a sizeable fee for his services.

Real Madrid and Chelsea will no doubt be watching with interest as the situation develops.

gerrard_eurocup2.jpg

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What the hell is going on? If he simply wants more money, I would be extremely fucking disappointed in him if I was a Liverpool fan.

It's quite ironic, Gerrard was telling Liverpool to give him time during the season to decide his future, now he feels he's not a priority and practically telling Liverpool to hurry the fuck up!

Liverpool also signed Bolo Zenden from Middlesbrough. See here
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Skys Premiership games in HDTV next season:

All of Sky's live Premiership games will feature as part of its new HDTV service, the broadcaster has revealed.

Speaking at Broadcast's Digital Channel Conference last week, Nicola Bamford, Sky's director of channels and operations, said that approximately 100 games per season would be available in the high quality format.

The service, which launches early next year, is also expected to include films and documentary content as part of the launch lineup.


The disturbing part is that Luke Chadwick is back in the premiership with West Ham, and now we will see him in HD (I'm Scared).
 

Falch

Member
Guileless said:
Falch what do PSV fans think of DeMarcus Beasley so far?

Well, I think the general consensus is that he did pretty good his first season, but he's an inconsistent player, and doesn't score very often. Most agree that Farfan is the better of the two flank players (not counting Park, now that he's gone). Beasley is a good player, but he needs to grow more in order to really stand out. He's nowhere near as good as Robben is.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Beasley does have the tendency to disapper in games sometimes, but he is nowhere near his prime yet. I bet he will be in more consistent form next season. And it was really fun watching him blow by Figo in the WC in '02.

Edit: Chelsea make a record £32m bid for Liverpool's Steven Gerrard, say reports.
 

Solid

Member
ugh... gerard is NOT worth that much! i have no idea why roman wants him so badly.

oh and Vieri to AC Milan (Inter released him last week) haha :lol
 

Maverick

Member
again i ask: WHY IN THE HELL DO CHELSEA NEED GERRARD???

i don't understand.

we have Makalele and Lamps in the middle already. Then on the side we have Robben, Cole and Duff.

Where does Gerrard fit it??
 

CelticFC#1

Free Scotland in 2008
Adding to the Gerrard news.

Liverpool: Official Statement

"The club has made it crystal clear we want to keep Steven at Anfield. Sadly, he has told us this afternoon that he will not accept our offer of an improved and extended contract because he wants to leave Liverpool. We very much regret the decision he has taken."

Gerrard: Why I Want Out

Steven Gerrard has released a statement to Sky Sports News explaining why he wants to leave Liverpool.

The England midfielder admits the decision to quit his boyhood idols has been a gut-wrenching one and that his initial thought after the UEFA Champions League victory was to remain at Anfield.

However, he has changed his mind, as he did last term when snubbing a move to Chelsea to commit his future to the Merseysiders.

"The last six weeks have been the toughest of my life," he informed Sky Sports News. "The decision I have come to has been the hardest decision I have ever had to make.

"I fully intended to sign a new contract after the Champions League final but the events of the past five or six weeks have changed all that.

"I have too much respect for the club and the people at it to get involved in a slanging match."

Gerrard inspired Liverpool's remarkable second half comeback against Milan in Istanbul and has been a key figure for Rafa Benitez's side.

Chelsea and Real Madrid are leading the chase for the midfield icon's signature as Liverpool fans come to terms with their favourite son's decision to turn his back on the European Cup holders.
 

Solid

Member
Maverick said:
again i ask: WHY IN THE HELL DO CHELSEA NEED GERRARD???

i don't understand.

we have Makalele and Lamps in the middle already. Then on the side we have Robben, Cole and Duff.

Where does Gerrard fit it??
well.. at the second half of last season we played like this. (robben was injured so much so cole took his place).

duff....drogba....j.cole
lampard..........gudjohnsen
.........makelele............

guess eidur is being replaced if gerard comes :(
 

CelticFC#1

Free Scotland in 2008
Eidur G will be definitely staying. Apart from him and Drogba they don't have another striker and it seems they're struggling to get their main targets (Eto'o, Adriano, Shevchenko) and even their secondary targets (Gilardino, Torres), even supposedly trying to lure Crespo back. Chelsea were believed to be thinking about Vieri for a season, now signed to AC, and next season going for one of their main targets.

If anything I think it sends a message to Joe Cole. I can't see him get in front of Lampard,Makelele, Robben, Duff, Gerrard/Essien and there's a lot of talk about Shaun Wright Phillips going to The Bridge so I think he'll be the one in the most jeopardy.
 

lachesis

Member
Hmm.. Vieri now with AC Milan.... Crespo/Gilardino now with Vieri..
plot thickens.

Seriously, with all this Gerrard talk, now with Vieri, Robinho etc - it feels like I'm watching a soap opera. ;)

lachesis
 

Fowler

Member
There's something not quite right about the Gerrard "saga". If he was so keen on staying a few weeks ago -- and Liverpool "did everything to keep him" -- what the hell went wrong in between? Gerrard at least is hinting at something, though whether we can believe his vague hints is something else entirely.

I can see both sides orchestrating this on purpose. On the one hand, Gerrard was about to leave last year, has been stalling on a contract all season, and that mysterious "HOW COULD I LEAVE AFTER A NIGHT LIKE THIS?" quote aside has been non-commital about staying the whole time (in ITV's post-Istanbul interview on the pitch he certainly didn't utter that quote, and stayed fairly neutral on the subject). And the suggestion has been made that Gerrard broke off and walked away from talks fairly easily.

On the other, Liverpool know they need money to rebuild, and they know that Gerrard is practically the only valuable asset. And last year Rafa Benitez balked at paying Owen 100k a week, arguing that they'd be better off spending the money elsewhere (whether that has worked out is debatable, but he did deliver the European Cup, so Rafa's judgement should be trusted). He could very well be doing the same this time around. Doing this sort of brinksmanship to piss Gerrard off and make him look like the bad guy running away would be the only way to get rid of him, since European Cup or not the fans wouldn't be too happy if he just started hawking a reluctant Gerrard to other clubs.

The only alternative is basically taking the story at face value, and that's unthinkable: That Liverpool fucked up, bigtime. That Gerrard wanted to stay, that Liverpool wanted him to stay, but screwed up negotiations to the point that they drove their captain away. I can't possibly imagine they'd do such a thing, but it is an option...

Bottom line is even after he moves, this story still has a bunch of juicy details to give up.

For the record, as a Liverpool fan I'm horribly torn on this. I cannot bear to lose Gerrard, particularly to another English club (and screw the haters, I've said all along I reckon he's better than Lampard). On the other hand, I trust Rafa Benitez. Like I said: He sold Owen, and that worked out alright. And we do have Xabi Alonso. But man, I'd love it if those two could play together again...
 

Shinobi

Member
I know sports is all about business now (well, more now then ever anyway), but if I was a Liverpool fan I'd have a pretty tough time dealing with the losses of Owen and Gerrard in the span of a year.
 

cja

Member
Duff + £25m for Gerrard is a possibility according to a couple of papers.

Gerrard's value to Chelski - based on the estimates of the deal in the Daily Mirror:

£40m transfer
£31.2m wages -- £120K pw x 52 (weeks) x 5 (years)
= £71.2m or $125m

Unknowns include SFX's agent fee. Its the agents who're rumoured to be behind the whole episode, Liverpool could be screwed like they and Harry Kewell's agent screwed Leeds.

Per annum Abramovich will be paying roughly the same amount for Gerrard's services as the Texas Rangers paid for A-Rod. Sick.
 

Fowler

Member
Maverick said:
again i ask: WHY IN THE HELL DO CHELSEA NEED GERRARD???

i don't understand.

we have Makalele and Lamps in the middle already. Then on the side we have Robben, Cole and Duff.

Where does Gerrard fit it??

I'd be asking why Chelsea want to sign every winger in existence. Already possessing two of the only 5-6 true wingers in the country, they're now set to sign Shaun Wright-Phillips.

Shinobi said:
I know sports is all about business now (well, more now then ever anyway), but if I was a Liverpool fan I'd have a pretty tough time dealing with the losses of Owen and Gerrard in the span of a year.

europeancup3075a.jpg


That baby's cushioned the blow of Owen leaving quite handily. Gerrard is another story...

cja said:
Duff + £25m for Gerrard is a possibility according to a couple of papers.

Gerrard's value to Chelski - based on the estimates of the deal in the Daily Mirror:

£40m transfer
£31.2m wages -- £120K pw x 52 (weeks) x 5 (years)
= £71.2m or $125m

Unknowns include SFX's agent fee. Its the agents who're rumoured to be behind the whole episode, Liverpool could be screwed like they and Harry Kewell's agent screwed Leeds.

Per annum Abramovich will be paying roughly the same amount for Gerrard's services as the Texas Rangers paid for A-Rod. Sick.

I wouldn't trust the Mirror to be honest. The two mainstream reporters that have the biggest inside connections at Anfield are the BBC's Phil McNulty and the Guardian's Dominic Fifield (not counting the Liverpool Echo and Chris Bascombe!). They're saying Chelsea will offer Gerrard only £90,000, because Mourinho refuses to pay anyone more than Lampard's £90,000. The key there is he'd actually be getting more at Liverpool.

The Guardian is also raising the possibility of a Duff part exchange, which sits a lot better than the Nunez part-exchange last year.

And I doubt the agent's fee will make a huge difference this time around. Last time they were saying £2 million is far and away an extraordinary sum -- not to mention the fact that it represented almost half Kewell's £5 million transfer fee. SFX would need a £8-10 million payday this time around. Besides, it's LEEDS. That club was so fucked up are you in any way surprised they got jobbed by agents? It's the same club that sold Rio for £29 million because "he was only cover for our real star Woodgate", then sold Woodgate for £9 million. Same club that bought a £13 million striker from Italy, only for Robbie Keane to stay parked on the bench... and then dropped £11 million on Fowler to replace him there (and then SOLD Fowler for £3 million something like 32 games and 15 goals later, which hardly constituted that sort of sale). Leeds are the club that spent £7.5 million on Seth Johnson -- SETH JOHNSON -- pretty much only because he was young and English. Same club that ensured they'd only get a third of whatever transfer fee they negotiated for Mark Viduka because the banks owned the other two thirds of the Aussie. And finally, the same club who turned down £10-20 million offers from Europe for Harry Kewell, said they were holding out for £30 million, then sold him for £5 million... of which they only got £3 million.
 

Supasso

Member
Maverick said:
again i ask: WHY IN THE HELL DO CHELSEA NEED GERRARD???

i don't understand.

we have Makalele and Lamps in the middle already. Then on the side we have Robben, Cole and Duff.

Where does Gerrard fit it??

And there was almost always a place in the first team for a mediocre player like Tiago or Smirtin.
 

Maverick

Member
Yeah, with Robben injured and Duff injured.

That doesn't mean go out and overpay for to make one of these guys a backup. I'm actually very happy Gerrard is stayingf at Liverpool. It helps the integrity of the game. In a fantasy world, I'd love Gerrard at Chelsea. But seriously, who doesn't want to see the man defend the European title w/ the Reds this season?

Honestly, as a cheslea fan, I can't stand it when the rumors are all that the biggest names in the game are all departing for either Chelsea or Real.

When that happens star players just get lost in the mix.

Now a SWP signing a would love. Young, quick player w/ a bright future means we could entertain Robben, Duff and SWP on the wings which is perfect in case of injury and a full calender of football.

I've been wishing Chelsea would stop messing around w/ Gerrard, Adriano, and Robinho and go get this kid.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Steven Flip-Flop Gerrard as he will now be known is apparently signing his future away to Liverpool today.


:lol as that idiot that burned his Gerrard shirt at the training ground yesturday, there goes another weeks benefit.*







*zing
 

DCharlie

Banned
just went to the gym in YGP and Inamoto was on the treadmill next to me.

He always stuck me as a small player, but he's fecking tall.
 

Juno

LIAR and a FELON
Viera to Juventus for £13.7 million... Don't really see the logic in this: hardly past his prime and if he wasn't a long-term prospect why not sell him last year when Madrid were rumoured to be offering in the region of £20 million? Heck, just the other day the fee was mooted to be about the same with Stephen Appiah included - wonder what happened.

Nedved, Emerson and Viera in midfield. Should be quite the midfield to pose a threat in Europe. Arsenal's chances look to have took a step back.
 

Shinobi

Member
Hope Arsenal can somehow get Shaun Wright Phillips...though I don't see him going anywhere but Stamford Bridge (if he leaves at all).
 

Juno

LIAR and a FELON
It would make more sense for him to go to Arsenal where he'd be playing most if not all games. Chelsea seem more likely to win things (especially in Europe) but I can't see him getting as many games with the competition they have for places.

Heard today that Arsenal are only to prepared to offer stars 1 or 2-year contracts who are over the age of 30. That could have factored in somewhere with Viera and his disciplinary record is the worst in Premiership history to boot.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
I can understand letting Vieira go. He wasn't at his strongest last season (unlike the season before, which is surely a factor in not letting him go last summer for more), and in fact when Arsenal were at their strongest, right at the start of the season, Vieira wasn't even in the team. Injured or suspended, I can't remember, but Arsenal were detroying teams without him.

Keeping him would have been fine, but I can understand letting him go. It's a good amount of money, keep him a couple more years and you're going to see that price down to the £7 milion range at best. In Gilberto Silva, Hleb (haven't seen him yet but hear he's good), Fabregas and Flamini, Arsenal have got 4 good and varied central midfielders fighting over 2 places.

And Arsenal are no Chelsea, or even a Man Utd. They need to sell to buy players generally, and what other position could they sell in and actually get a lot of money, without leaving themselves short? The only one I can think of is left back. Sell Cole and bring Clichy in, but then you don't have the depth to cover that position that they do in central midfield. And Arsenal are going to need that sort of money if they want to compete with Chelsea, they're woefully short in some positions.

In other news, Shaun Wright-Phillips is almost certainly off to Chelsea, assuming he can agree terms and passes a medical.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4621425.stm

£21m, though I have to say it's a strange purcahse from Mourinho. Don't get me wrong, he's a wonderful player, but how on earth can you keep Cole, Duff, Robben and Wright-Phillips happy? He just can't stop buying midfielders it seems, this is the exact thing he did with central midfield (and is still doing).

I decided to work out who it would be best for Chelsea to play, based purely on goals and games last season (they're the only stats I have). And who should be fourth in the pecking order of four wonderful talents.

Oh and I've thrown Lampard in there as good measure, just to compare a midfielder's goalscoring prowess.

First of all it has to be said Wright-Phillips is playing for Man City, a team who only scored 1.34 goals a game last year, compared to Chelsea's 1.83. Also, Lampard is Chelsea's penalty taker, unlike any of the others, and I'm unsure how many of his goals came from the spot. Luckily his figures don't matter as much.

Ok, first of all I just took their goals per game regardless of competition or substitute appearances, and came up with:

1. Lampard 3.05
2. Robben 3.22
3. Wright-Phillips 3.36
4. Duff 4.8
5. Cole 5.11

So, on the face of it it's probably the result most would expect, that Robben and Wright-Phillips should be the pairing, with Duff third and Cole left out of it. But if we look deeper...

Next I looked at how many times players only played as a sub. Without knowing how long they actually got on the pitch, this is pretty hard to be exact about. So I've done my best to be fair and for every sub appearance they make, I count it as half a game. So, for example, Lampard played 58 games last season, but 5 were substitute appearances. Therefore I take 2.5 from 58 to get 55.5. Hope that makes sense.

1. Robben 2.66
2. Lampard 2.92
3. Wright-Phillips 3.32
4. Cole 4.44
5. Duff 4.5

So now we see a shift. Well 2, but the fact that Robben moves ahead of Lampard doesn't mean much here. Cole though actually moves ahead of Duff when you take substitute appreances into account, or at least he does the way I'vw worked it out.

That's for all competitions though, how about just the League? Not really fair to compare players who had plenty of games in Europe to a player who had none. What if it's harder to score in that competition? Or easier? So, just the Premisership now, not counting subs (yet).

1. Robben 2.57
2. Lampard 2.92
3. Wright-Phillips 3.4
4. Cole 3.5
5. Duff 5

No change in positions from the last one, but Cole has absolutely shot ahead of Duff! While Duff only scores 1 goal every 5 games, Cole scores one every 3.5.

Once again, I'll now take substitute appearances into account, this time just for the League.

1. Robben 2.29
2. Lampard 2.92
3. Cole 2.937
4. Wright-Phillips 3.35
5. Duff 4.83

This is the biggest change yet. In the League, Cole actually scored more goals per game with subs included than Wright-Phillips! In fact, he's barely behind Lampard (probably ahead if I knew how many penalties Lampard took), and a mile ahead of Duff.

Does this mean anything though? It's just stats. Well it means something, but alone not much. It seems pretty clear that Robben and Wright-Phillips should be the two wingers, despite Cole's performance in the League. But...what of assists? They're great goalscorers and dribblers, but I think it obvious Duff and Cole are the better crossers. What about fighting for the team, getting back to defend? Everyone at Chelsea does it, I'm sure Wright-Phillips will too, but Cole is the one who's effort and dedication stood out last season, particularly the second half.

So while I may not be able to narrow it down to a definite top 2 (only Robben should definitely start), it's jumping out at me that it should be Cole in the top 3, not Duff as so many seem to think.

That was way too long.

EDIT: Incidentally, I just checked an Pires tops them all on every count (well, goal counts, his team play is never gonna match). Dude never gets enough recognition. And Ljungberg tops everyone too, except Robben's League figures.
 

CelticFC#1

Free Scotland in 2008
Mama Smurf said:
£21m, though I have to say it's a strange purcahse from Mourinho. Don't get me wrong, he's a wonderful player, but how on earth can you keep Cole, Duff, Robben and Wright-Phillips happy? He just can't stop buying midfielders it seems, this is the exact thing he did with central midfield (and is still doing).

He's going to struggle to keep them all happy, but the reason he's doing it is for insurance. I'm pretty sure Mourinho is still hurting like hell due to Liverpool putting them out of the Champions League. To a lesser extent, it's the same with the FA Cup. Mourinho is thinking "We're the richest the club in world, why do have to put out a weakened side against Newcastle?". They had to rest lots of key players against Newcastle so they weren't tired for the game against Barca in midweek. When they played Liverpool they had to resort to playing an injured and lacking in match fitness Robben in the last 20 mins to try and salvage their CL place. Mourinho's thinking he shouldn't have to do that, and he wants a squad full of quality, rather than "inferior" players like Smertin, Geremi and Jarosik.
 

Solid

Member
interesting post Mama Smurf. it will be interesting next season. it'd be kinda sweet if chelsea got essien as well, then they have a great, great squad! i still don't understand where geremi fits in to all this :lol

anyway, chelsea plays at benfica tonight... the match is going on right now i think. i hope crespo and robben scores :)
 

Shinobi

Member
I've been reading that Arsenal's targeting Newcastle's Jermaine Jenas and Seville's Julio Baptista to replace Viera...what sort of players are they? Jenas must be pretty highly regarded with Souness having no desire to sell him cheaply, unless he gets Sol Campbell in exchange (that'd be a risky move on Arsenal's part).

Also has anyone seen Arsenal's new home uni for this season? How does it look?
 
Shinobi said:
I've been reading that Arsenal's targeting Newcastle's Jermaine Jenas and Seville's Julio Baptista to replace Viera...what sort of players are they? Jenas must be pretty highly regarded with Souness having no desire to sell him cheaply, unless he gets Sol Campbell in exchange (that'd be a risky move on Arsenal's part).

Also has anyone seen Arsenal's new home uni for this season? How does it look?

Jenas is 22, a young, gifted yet unproven at the highest level England international. Fast, good feet, not physical like Vieira, but more creative. IMO not worth it for the Arse for what Newcastle want. Baptista, on the other hand, is a big, burly, strong in the box attacking midfielder/striker, a perfect foil for Henry and/or Reyes up front. I would like that. I would rather they went after Diarra or Ballack than Jenas and not do a part-exchange involving Campbell, despite the fact he'll play only a handful of games due to injury I'm sure.

More thoughts to write on Vieira, of course as a lifelong Gooner I am crushed but as a more neutral observer it is the right move when all is said and done.

Cole is about to sign a new deal it is reported, one of the benefits of Paddy's departure (he was way above the Arsenal pay scale, now more money to offer).
 
Yes, I have the new home kit courtesy of Kitbag.com. It's simply beautiful, in honor of Highbury's final year. Maroon with gold accents/lettering. Got me Bergkamp, because THERE'S ONLY ONE DENNIS BERGKAMP
 

Shinobi

Member
Heh, yeah I saw the kits on sale at Arsenal's website, and it looks pretty cool...just wondering how it looks on TV. My parents and sister are going to London in a couple weeks to visit some family, so I'm gonna have 'em buy at least the new uni with Henry's name on it, along with either a red England Owen jersey, a blue Henry jersey, or both if it can be afforded.

I've never been able to get my head around the prospect of a new EPL season starting in the middle of August...it just seems way too early. And the "offseason" is shorter then shit compared to the leagues over here (that's not even getting into the Euro/World Cup stuff). It's really quite bizarre.
 

Juno

LIAR and a FELON
Apparently on paper Viera's best season at Highbury was last season in terms of goals scored, assists, pass completion and tackles won rate (etc, etc). Based on performance though I would agree that what I saw of him he wasn't quite 0wning the midfield like he's done in the past.

Wright-Phillips is a great catch for Chelsea. Honestly thought Arsenal would've been more suited for him, what with his dad playing for them - him being a life-long Arsenal fan and such.

Also reading that Tottenham seem like Baptista's likely new home. In that they've tabled the biggest bid according to Sevilla (+€20 million).
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
See, this is what I was talking about:

After completing the deal and being handed Chelsea's number 24 shirt, Wright-Phillips said he was ready to fight for his place along with Damien Duff and Arjen Robben.

That's from a BBC article on Wright-Phillips moving to Chelsea. Now he didn't mention any players by name, just the article does, but it just pisses me the hell off to see Cole dismissed like he couldn't possibly compete with the others.

As for Jenas...I have NEVER seen him play a game that's more than adequate. Now it could just be I've just been unlucky, but I've seen him a few times in full games over the years for Newcastle and England, and plenty of times in highlights, and I'm left completely bemused by the regard he gets at such high levels.

He is far from a replacement for Vieira that's for sure. I don't even think they need another central midfielder that bad, not with the 4 they've got, but I suppose with Edu leaving too they might think they do. He's not even an Edu though. Souness is taking the fucking piss if he prices him at £20m.

Arsenal do need players though, god knows why there's so much talk of a central midfielder when they've already brought in Hleb. They need a goalkeeper desperately as they're the only top team yet to attempt to sort it this year, they need more central defensive cover (talk of selling Campbell is absolutely ridiculous, especially for the low prices being touted around, you couldn't get close to replacing him for twice as much!), they look pretty unbalanced when Ljungberg isn't in the team so another right winger would be good (obviously they know this though having gone after Wright-Phillips too) and given how impotent they can be without Henry playing, a striker is a must (once again, they obviously know this).

As great a team as Arsenal are, they need a bigger and stronger squad. You can't just magic one out of the air, but when you look at Man Utd and Chelsea's options, they have so much more quality cover in most positions.

Also reading that Tottenham seem like Baptista's likely new home. In that they've tabled the biggest bid according to Sevilla (+€20 million).

Spurs are greedy bastards along with Chelsea! Jesus, they couldn't keep Kanoute, Mido, Defoe and Keane happy last season, and now they want to throw Baptista into the mix? Where the hell do Spurs get all this money from anyway?

It'd be hilarious to see him scooped up by Spurs beneath Arsenal's nose though.
 
Two things to think about when it comes to the Vieira transfer:

1) It has been common knowledge that he had been open with Wenger about his intent to see out his Arsenal contract and then move on a Bosman.

2) He started an unbelievable number of games for Arsenal: all Prem games, CL games and most FA Cup, leading to a number of injuries last term.

In that light, it's hard to fault the move.

I don't think he is finished, nor do I think his best is behind him. I just think we've all grown tired of the speculation, and the knowledge of his emminent departure. In addition, Cesc Fabregas softens the blow some. He's not Vieira, but with Silva will be a very nice central midfield combo.

In addition, remember this: years ago everyone thought Wenger off his rocker for selling Overmars for 25 mil, Petit for 5 and Anelka for 20. Result? Overmars: good but not for the money and injury-prone. Petit: pants. Anelka: good, but kicked out of everywhere he's ever played. Meanwhile with a fraction of all that money he's brought in Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, Silva, Fabregas, Toure, Senderos and many more. The man has earned a vast line of credit from Arsenal fans and I am perfectly willing to give it to him.

From most posts in this thread, the average age is pretty young and so most are used to Arsenal constantly challenging the likes of ManYoo and now Chelsea. But they didn't always and they really don't have anywhere near the resources of these clubs; not even close. They don't even have the turnover of Liverpool, Newcastle or Spurs. Most of Arsenal's success is due to Wenger. As far as I am concerned he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

Mamma Smurf: Agreed about cover, but not sure what you mean by ManYoo having more quality cover. Fortune is pants. Kleberson is pants. Miller isn't up to snuff. Saha and Smith are OK. Their defensive options are just as limited. Witness their embarassments against Exeter and Norwich, for example.

I don't believe, by the way, that Spurs really do want Baptista, I think this is cover for a move for Jenas. I think they want to push the price up on Baptista enough so that Arsenal can't be players on Jenas. As far as their money, Spurs are a bigger club than Arsenal. Their turnover figures as much greater than you'd think (since the lean years of the Sugar era).

Anyway I doubt Baptista will move to England; he's a year away from an EU passport if he remains in Spain. If he does come across, Arsenal can offer Champion's League football. Spurs can offer yet another year of midtable mediocrity.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
Mamma Smurf: Agreed about cover, but not sure what you mean by ManYoo having more quality cover. Fortune is pants. Kleberson is pants. Miller isn't up to snuff. Saha and Smith are OK. Their defensive options are just as limited. Witness their embarassments against Exeter and Norwich, for example.

Well they're not out of this world better, just better.

Goal:

Van der Sar. Cover from Howard and youngsters. Not superb, but ahead of Arsenal at the mo certainly.

Defence:

G. Neville, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Heinze. Cover from Brown, P. Neville, O'Shea, Fortune (well, I've seen him play there anyway). They could probably do with another defender now I think about it, but they're still on a par with Arsenal if not ahead.

Midfield:

Giggs, Ronaldo, Keane, Scholes. Cover from Park, Fortune (who I don't agree is pants, I've seen him play very solid games, unlike Klebershite), P. Neville, O'Shea, Solskjaer, Fletcher. No stronger than Arsenal really, maybe in numbers but the quality seems similar.

Attack:

Van Nistelrooy, Rooney. Cover from Saha, Solskjaer, Smith, three players 80% of the Premiership would kill to have as their 3 main strikers. Arsenal have Dennis "never plays as well without Henry, aging, won't go to half your European games" Bergkamp, Thierry "fucking superb though also doesn't seem to play as well with anyone but Bergkamp" Henry, Robin "needs a good run in the team before I'm convinced on him though clearly has talent" Van Persie and Jose "good for two months, completely lost it, doesn't seem to get how the rest of his team plays" Antonio Reyes.

Note I've left out anyone who I think is complete shit, beyond any hope, such as Kleberson and Bellion. And I'd put Richardson as midfield cover, but I'm far from convinced he'll be there next season, maybe like Bentley for Arsenal.

I'm being absolutely critical as both sides are great, but in terms of the squad strength, I'd take United's goalkeepers, United's defence, wouldn't care which midfield, and United's frontline.

Of course, if I was actually creating a first team out of the two sides, it'd be split as even as it could be. But that isn't what this is about.
 
I think you're overrating them and underrating us by a fair margin, but that's the feeling of any fan I'm sure, and not really what the post was about. We would have been after SWP aggressively had it not been clear Chelsea were too. However if you look at Arsenal's strikers and midfielders (regardless of how you rate them) most are rather versatile (Reyes and/or van Persie can play wide, Hleb on the wing, Pires/Freddy can play either side adeptly) which helps cover a great deal.
 

Solid

Member
Gilardino to Milan. I gotta say, they have a great, great group of attackers now. Inzaghi, Shevchenko, Vieri and Gilardino. I bet either Sheva or Gilardino ends as the top scorer next season in serie a.
 
I was also reading about a possible deal between Inter and Real, with Ronaldo, Samuel and cash moving in exchange for Adriano. Makes sense for Real since the Robinho deal seems dead in the water with Santos smoking crack over their desired fee.
 

Shinobi

Member
Mama Smurf said:
It'd be hilarious to see him scooped up by Spurs beneath Arsenal's nose though.

I think that's all they want to do. :lol



Arsenal have Dennis "never plays as well without Henry, aging, won't go to half your European games" Bergkamp

:lol I'm a Bergkemp fan, but that was hilarious.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Did anybody watch the Real Madrid-LA Galaxy game on FSC this week? They've been replaying it a good bit. Real won 2-0, but LA didn't look totally lost even without Landon Donovan.

Also Gold Cup action still going on but only people with some obscure Spanish language network can watch the US games.
 
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