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The Formula 1 2012 Season |OT| The Year of the...uh...Platypus?
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brotkasten
Member
Yes it is, we wouldn't know this, if it wasn't for you. Thanks for driving by and your big contribution to this thread.
Cool story, will read again.
I don't think it was a Ferrari conspiracy at all but I do think it's also naive to think that Sauber wouldn't have considered the damage to their relationship with Ferrari winning the race might have done.
Especially given how much faster Perez was, it would have been humiliating for the works team no question.
Especially given how much faster Perez was, it would have been humiliating for the works team no question.
Psychotext
Member
Sucks that it's so long until the next race. Related, how is China as a barometer for speed at other tracks? It would be nice to get an idea on how the rest of the season is going to play out.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
If it's dry it'll be a good indicator of the relative pace of the teams.
They are... if he was defending. But he wasn't. It looked like Karthi took the line here as he would have regardless of if there was someone behind him or not. It just so happened that the rumble strip was wet, caused some wheelspin and pushed him over to the right (at least, according to him.. and before that vid was blocked, it didn't look out of the realms of possibility). Either way, it wasn't in Vettel's interest at all to cut it so close, even if Karthi made the corner stick.
And considering it was an incident that's very 50/50 blame-wise, it certainly wasn't in Vettel's interest to make such comments public. Has Karthi said anything either in response or just in passing?
brotkasten
Member
It wouldn't be less embarrassing than McLaren losing against the Mercedes-powered Brawn GP01 in 2009, right?
but those are just 2 teams who happen to have merc engines, both essentially works teams, i fully expect mclaren to produce their own engines when the merc deal runs out in 2015
Psychotext
Member
Thanks.Edmond Dantès;36368584 said:
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Not according to Whitmarsh.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/01022012/66/mclaren-plans-build-own-engine.html
They're more likely to stick with Merc for the foreseeable future. A partnership with a returning Honda is also a possibility, but their own engines? Not a chance.
awwshame, sod honda, put your balls on the table whitmarsh, time to take it like a man and build your own engines
They have what is arguably the best engine and KERS on the grid at the moment. If the Merc V6 turns out garbage then I wouldn't be surprised if they moved elsewhere or manufactured their own, but at the moment they have no reason to do stop using the Merc hardware.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
It's what Ron Dennis wanted a few years back; building their own engines and being totally self reliant. I don't know what happened to change his mind though. Maybe he realised what an effort it would be especially after the development of their road car.aww
brotkasten
Member
But wasn't McLaren pretty much Mercedes "works team", before their extensive partnership ended in Nov. 2009? Norbert Haug was also part of the crew, iirc.
You can't say Mercedes was just another engine supplier for McLaren.
Well, the Merc engines have been consistently great as far as I can remember. It doesn't make a lot of sense for McLaren to spend a huge amount of money setting up an engines division, hiring people and funding development and research to get something that will most likely be a little worse than the Merc ones.
ReadingRambo
Member
I'm basically on lurk status for this thread due to being in the US and not being able to catch the races live. Holy crap was this a crazy one!
Perez was soo close. I do think the team message probably disrupted his rhythm. Him moving to Ferrari might be a bad move with the current car, but surely becoming a driver for such an iconic team wouldn't hurt one's career.
In the end though McLaren lost this one due to terrible stops, changing conditions, and Button derping. Ferrari did everything perfectly and had a god among men behind the wheel of a crap car to eek out a win on a prayer.
Perez was soo close. I do think the team message probably disrupted his rhythm. Him moving to Ferrari might be a bad move with the current car, but surely becoming a driver for such an iconic team wouldn't hurt one's career.
In the end though McLaren lost this one due to terrible stops, changing conditions, and Button derping. Ferrari did everything perfectly and had a god among men behind the wheel of a crap car to eek out a win on a prayer.
Goldrusher
Member
They did exactly that for their 12C road car though.
But wasn't McLaren pretty much Mercedes "works team", before their extensive partnership ended in Nov. 2009? Norbert Haug was also part of the crew, iirc.
You can't say Mercedes was just another engine supplier for McLaren.
they had 40% share in mclaren at the peak i think, but it always throughly stay mclaren-mercedes, not mercedes-mclaren
Sleeplessnights
Banned
brotkasten
Member
Someone need to replace the hat with a tinfoil hat ASAP.
I finally got time to watch the race late last night. Pretty good race overall minus the safety car and red flag session. Perez had an amazing drive, I would have liked to see him win. His drive combined with the traveling circus that is Felipe Massa should end Massa's time soon (I hope). Lewis has started the year well. I know he would like to turn the pole positions into wins but if he keeps racking up podium finishes his points will speak for themselves.
This is quite odd, and a real shame. Here's hoping the replacement does an equally good job.
ReadingRambo
Member
I've only been watching since 2011, but the Massa hate here leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He doesn't seem to be malicious in his failures, and losing a WDC in a final turn of the final race would be terrible for anyone. Then he takes a spring to the head in a freak accident. Would think he deserved a little more sympathy. Am I missing something?
Massa got his sympathy, it's been what, two years almost since he came back? Formula 1 is a cut throat sport, if he doesn't prove himself this season - he's gone. imo
ReadingRambo
Member
I think he's gone too, but people seem to relish the thought.
Psychotext
Member
Orgun was right, he's had his sympathy. Now he's just keeping a better driver from the spot and hurting his team / teammate in the process.
brotkasten
Member
It's been two and a half years since his incident and his performance doesn't improve at all. He didn't win a race or been on pole since 2008, even though Ferrari had a capable car in the second half of 2010, with Fernando losing the WDC by few points. He never did better than 5th place last year. There's really no reason for him to be the second highest paid F1 driver and he doesn't deserve to drive that turd of a car.
So you think that Perez received the message, thought it was an order to not overtake Alonso and then continues to push to a point where he nearly ended up in the gravel? Don't tell me, you believe he did that on purpose?
I like Massa, he always seemed like a nice guy and not a douche like Schummy, Alonso or Hamilton but that doesn't mean he deserves not to be criticized for his poor driving. F1 is not a Miss Universe contest.
I don't know if building F1 engines is the same as designing a conventional one (that they don't even assemble). Wouldn't they need specialized staff with F1 experience and completely different production lines and work a whole different branch of R&D? It just looks like too much effort, and I don't think they are flush with cash right now.
Whoa, just saw a 300SL pass by the window as I was typing.
Not as bad as I expected for Sky.
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
But wasn't McLaren pretty much Mercedes "works team", before their extensive partnership ended in Nov. 2009? Norbert Haug was also part of the crew, iirc.
You can't say Mercedes was just another engine supplier for McLaren.
sorry if posted but I'm too tired to read all the replies
Mercedes owned 40% of McLaren, I presume you were comparing them to Ferrari-Sauber relationship? if that's the case, they're not comparable
Mercedes wanted to get control of the team for years, Ron refused, so Mercedes decided to buy Brawn GP and sell their shares
Yeah higher numbers than i expected. But its Live vs highlights.
China we will see the first real comparison
just dont expect to see much higher than 1.5m, even the big premiership football matches seem to top out at 2.1m'ish
Psychotext
Member
They'll get their arsed handed to them live vs live too. Having watched both I'll be picking the BBC footage where there's an option to do it live.
You're missing his paycheck. Ferrari is not paying him out of sympathy and neither is Massa driving for Ferrari out of the kindness in his heart.
He's at a topteam underperforming for 2 years. F1 is a business, there is no room for sympathy.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
BBC pre-race, Sky for race with best commentary, back to BBC for post-race.
Sorted. Wish I could do that easily every week.
Sorted. Wish I could do that easily every week.
Psychotext
Member
I'm with the BBC for that one too. I loved Crofty on Five Live but there's something really annoying about his over-exuberance when he's doing commentary for TV.
Besides, I miss Coulthard.
So pissed that they split up the dream team.
bbchd all the way, i only have access to skygo on my xbox, so no hd, and its also a whole 10 seconds behind a dodgy online feed i found, let alone normal tv, stupid sky
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I'm with the BBC for that one too. I loved Crofty on Five Live but there's something really annoying about his over-exuberance when he's doing commentary for TV.
Besides, I miss Coulthard.
So pissed that they split up the dream team.
Crofty does get way too excited, but he's a million times better than the bore that's with DC now.
Psychotext
Member
Yeah, he's crap but I just tune him out for the DC goodness.
It's a shame that DC isn't with James Allen, but I don't think Ben Edwards is that bad.
He'll improve in time I'm sure.
Sleeplessnights
Banned
Ben Edwards and DC are my go to commentators for this season.
No need to wait until the end of the season.
Perez going there, mid-season, might do him more harm than good though.
No need to wait until the end of the season.
Perez going there, mid-season, might do him more harm than good though.
Fisichella
Ben Edwards and DC are my go to commentators for this season.
No need to wait until the end of the season.
Perez going there, mid-season, might do him more harm than good though.Fisichella
Fisichella was always going to be a short term replacement for the duration of Massa's recovery. If Perez comes in (even mid-season) he would be their full-time driver for the considerable future.
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