RollerMeister
Neo Member
I think you're making that sound a little more easy than it probably is.
If not, then I wish I would have known back before I quit the game.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The future of Destiny 2 may be found in Warframe
- Thread starter texhnolyze
- Start date
I think you're making that sound a little more easy than it probably is.
If not, then I wish I would have known back before I quit the game.
Niceguydan8
Member
It's really not that difficult. The ideal way to trade (unfortunately) is through a website (similar to how DestinyLFG was the best way to raid) but it's fairly straightforward. Otherwise, one can go to Maroo's Bazaar on Earth and attempt to trade as well.
You get relics as rewards from missions. Some are more common than others, but each relic has a 3 potential bronze drops, 2 potential silver drops, and 1 potential gold. Whenever you do a fissure run, you will use one relic so long as you complete the fissure. You will get a prime part out of it every single time unless you choose a forma blueprint.
So the bronze stuff usually sells for a couple of plat (2-3), but the silver and gold drops can sell for more, some of the stuff will sell for over 20 platinum.
For example, I was doing Derelict Runs to try to get a specific mod. I got two mods called "Overextended." I listed my extra mod on the Warframe Market website for ~20 platinum and I would say within 10 minutes I had two offers for somebody to buy it. If I didn't have any plat (I got a lot due to the pricing bug a couple weeks ago), that would be enough for a new Warframe slot, or almost 4 new weapon slots.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
I know this is just an opinion.... But it's really not. Outside of syandanas and pay4convenience of outright buying frames and weapons (which are seen as a really bad idea), it's just slots and by the time slots are a problem outside of your MK1 weapons (which you should sell as soon as you rank them up for mastery), you should be able to easily get the slots you need from relics.
texhnolyze
Banned
Just finished a 2-hour session, mostly playing the timed events. Wow, that was exhausting with total chaos everywhere, especially when it comes to playing with a group. I feel like I didn't have a chance to stop shooting except for reloading. Also, the missions structures are so different from each other, some are hard to solo while some other are much easier. Playing solo and with a group is like playing totally different games lol.
It shouldn't just be stats, some gear should straight-up not be allowed in competitive crucible.
This is the only way the game's weaponry is going to break out of the pistols/rifles/slower-rifles/even-slower-rifles/shotguns design prison and allow for truly exotic items to be implemented.
Warframe is full of imaginative and wonderfully gimmicky sci-fi weapons, the kind you'll never see in Destiny as long as Activision Bungie insists on putting "balance" over fun and variety.
it isnt but it also isnt easy to just make something lol
I played way too much Warframe. I managed to acquire every prime weapon, warframe, and prime warframe (minus the one that was for early backers or whatever) and level them all up roughly up to a hit after they switched from keys to relics. After that I fell off hard and doubt Ill ever go back.
Not sure I agree with the sentiment that Destiny should go in that direction. Should it have more stuff to acquire and make it more varied? Sure. Should it be such a huge grind with all the crafting timers and shit? Nope.
Not sure I agree with the sentiment that Destiny should go in that direction. Should it have more stuff to acquire and make it more varied? Sure. Should it be such a huge grind with all the crafting timers and shit? Nope.
I disagree. D2 is an extension of those changes but it is fundamentally very different than vanilla Destiny. You get just about everything relatively quickly in D2 and thus it is far less of a grind or the carrot on the stick that D1 was.
Niceguydan8
Member
That's basically what this article is saying.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Bungie.. just let the live team loose already.
They're the true Destiny legends.
They're the true Destiny legends.
irrotational
Member
Thanks, a few people made some good replies to my post on page 2 but I can't do a proper quote thingy as I'm on my phone.
I think a few people have hit the nail on the head, but I still think the answer is not what the majority in this thread want
. Vanilla D was a loot shooter with an mmo style grind (but still not full on mmo levels of grind). Every single change since then (except the double RNG on end game light levels, coupled with crap raid guns and an infusion surcharge) has been to reduce the grind... That's 4 years of history/behaviour at this point.
I just don't see them changing it.
It was interesting what you said about cod, I haven't played one since 4, so I didn't realise it has a big grind. I guess my more general point is that they want to make a game where the mass market plays it and feels "satisfied". If there are interesting things, or loot, locked behind a big grind then those people will not be satisfied.
I think someone else replied about Luke Smith. I used him as an example to try and show that Bungie know how to do all this stuff IF they want to...
They don't need to learn anything from warframe, they already know, the problem is that they don't want to make a game with a warframe like grind. (Even if it's a good grind).
It does seem a bit weird, because it means their business strategy is more focused on $60 (and DLC) sales and less long-tail spending on cosmetics.
Agreed. I want Sparrow Racing 2 and PL1 Halloween masks from Halloween event
I really don't
Plains of Eidolon content patch doesn't make Warframe open world game.
MaKTaiL
Member
Yeah, people are confusing things at this point. Plains of Eidolon is not open world. It will be the equivalent of Destiny's patrol areas.
Correct, you almost never simply get equipment straight up from bosses, you get parts and blueprints. Although as a bit of an upside, these drops are never super ultra rare, a few runs may be required but that's that. Majority of cosmetics are microtransactions, but there are ways to get them without paying.The ๖ۜBronx;251438699 said:
Game is purely mission-based and there are constant "Alerts" going on, where doing a certain mission within 1-2 hours nets you a specific cosmetic, crafting ingredient or extra money.
Then there's also a vendor who comes around every 2 weeks for a weekend to sell powerful weapons, mods and cosmetics in exchange for the various rare blueprints and parts you've picked up
I'll try to slim some of those numbers down for more accurate/conservative(?) representation
When we exclude Primes, there are 33 Warframes, each with explicitly different 4 active abilities, and different, but static, HP/armor/shield/energy/mobility values. Like, my Titania is one of the squishiest frames I have... but 2 of her skills are for crowd control and with her "ulti" she can literally turn into an evasive tiny pixie with new weapons and shred enemies while flying up in the air.
For these 33 Warframe's customization, there exist 49 generic, adjustable (more power => more capacity required) mods when we exclude mods that entirely modify specific warframes' abilities. You don't craft Mods btw, they simply drop.
For weapons, counting out special/prime versions, there are 66 Primary, 64 Secondary and 97 Melee (over 23 melee types/movesets), and listing all the mods would be little too much work but let me say that Rifle weapon type has 60+ generic mods.
So, at various point it'd be disingenious to say "Oh wow, hundreds of THINGS!", but considering that you'll extremely rarely get a weapon that's a version of your old one with "+10% damage and crit chance" (I think there are at max 3 versions of any firearm), doing crafting could be excused.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
lol warframe. no thanks.
2blackcats
Member
Grinding doesn't bother me.
It was the gameplay. Seemed really boring. Haven't played it since shortly after PS4 launch but all I remember was 4 players getting dropped into a generic level and racing through, killing generic bad guys. Nothing stood out at all.
Warframe is my GOTG, but there are many reasons why that is. The game is made with absolute love and it shines through in almost everything. It isnt just the loot/reward aspect. It is the controls, the way the pve and pvp are basically separated and tailored to their own styles, the meta endgame that you can create, among the many levels and game types to choose from, the way mods and elements can be arranged, etc etc. And it is all free.
Many games can learn from warframe.
Many games can learn from warframe.
Well, there's different mission types. Some are like you say but others get much more interesting, especially defence and survival where you battle an overwhelming horde of enemies and it all gets really crazy.
All this Warframe talk is getting me excited to try the new thing that's launching soon, build some new guns and maybe finish my Chroma(?) frame...
I think what Destiny 2 tried to do (admonish the overreliance on F2P-esque levelling + RNG) is admirable but ultimately backfired when the curtain was pulled back and people realized the core experience of Destiny is inherently shallow without bullshit RPG elements tacked on.
They should be solving for infinitely replayable content, an endless Vex dungeon with platforming and traps and random modifiers - all of the adventure and fun of Destiny but always with something new to see and do.
I genuinely dont envy the task, but its what they need to solve for if theyre serious about breaking from traditional grinding and rng.
They should be solving for infinitely replayable content, an endless Vex dungeon with platforming and traps and random modifiers - all of the adventure and fun of Destiny but always with something new to see and do.
I genuinely dont envy the task, but its what they need to solve for if theyre serious about breaking from traditional grinding and rng.
Jest Chillin
Member
Not a fan of Warframe's systems. Combat doesn't feel satisfying and grinding for everything is boring. I also can't recall any real narrative.
The idea of getting something for doing anything sounds appealing on paper.. but at a certain point.. you're just flooded with stuff. It builds other things but those things aren't vertical progression based... so it's a collect-a-thon. Now that's not inherently bad at all.. but it's also not meaningful. It's stuff for the sake of stuff.
So you can do more things to get more things in Warframe. For those interested in always getting feedback in the form of items/parts to progress towards more collections, this is great. At the end though, no matter how much stuff you're collecting, if the gameplay isn't enjoyable what's the point?
So it comes down to Warframe scratching a particular itch for particular types of players. Players that enjoy the gameplay AND enjoy a constant item acquisition treadmill. Personally, I'm not a fan of either aspect of Warframe. So I'd prefer Destiny not be influenced by it.
The idea of getting something for doing anything sounds appealing on paper.. but at a certain point.. you're just flooded with stuff. It builds other things but those things aren't vertical progression based... so it's a collect-a-thon. Now that's not inherently bad at all.. but it's also not meaningful. It's stuff for the sake of stuff.
So you can do more things to get more things in Warframe. For those interested in always getting feedback in the form of items/parts to progress towards more collections, this is great. At the end though, no matter how much stuff you're collecting, if the gameplay isn't enjoyable what's the point?
So it comes down to Warframe scratching a particular itch for particular types of players. Players that enjoy the gameplay AND enjoy a constant item acquisition treadmill. Personally, I'm not a fan of either aspect of Warframe. So I'd prefer Destiny not be influenced by it.
This video has completely convinced me to try Warframe (again) tonight. The last time I touched it (granted, for like 10 minutes) was 3 years ago. Warframe seems to be everything Destiny 1/2 isn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vuJitrbTFY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vuJitrbTFY
Niceguydan8
Member
-There is a narrative. It takes a long time to show itself, but it does exist. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I think there is an interesting reveal.
-Vertical progression exists in the form on mods. Since mods carry over on a per-type basis, leveling one mods means that every single weapon that uses that mod is potentially making vertical progression. The weapons themselves are generally now how one vertically progresses for most of the game. It's mods/formas/orokin catalysts/orokin reactors that do that.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I am trying to figure out what to do after I hit 265 to get to 300+
hangdang69
Member
I've really liked both destiny games so far, but I'm ok with just doing the raid once or twice a week until new content comes out at this point. It kind of seems that's just what destiny is once you reach endgame. I'm ok with it but I know a lot of people aren't.
I tried Warframe when it first came out and wasn't a big fan of it, but I think I'm going to give it another shot now.
I tried Warframe when it first came out and wasn't a big fan of it, but I think I'm going to give it another shot now.
Basically weekly reset content. NFall, Raid, Cayde maps, Crucible weekly thing, Flashpoint, ToN and so on. Also keep farming public events for exotic engrams.
Okay?
TPS games rarely have gunplay like FPS games.
Yup, tried the game back then and I just couldn't bother with it anymore after a few days. The artsyle wasn't my thing at all, the gunplay didn't feel satisfying, it was too chaptic with others. Nah I'm not going back to that.
Trickster
Member
Looks a lot more open than the Destiny patrol areas I've seen. Like it's literally an open plain. While Destiny zones are often just wide corridors
If I remember right it's about 2km x 2km open area with content on surface and inside extensive caves that can be found here and there.
Jest Chillin
Member
I didn't say there was no narrative. Just that I couldn't recall one. If it's there and people enjoy it, more power to them.
Is the mod/formas/orokin catalysts/orokin reactors acquisition the bulk of what you earn toward everytime you play? Or is it only a portion of what's earned? Because my point is that when you say things like, "I get something as a reward everytime I play" there needs to be clarification as to how meaningful it is. Because I can say the same thing of Destiny. I earn weapon and armor drops which I can keep or dismantle into parts and legendary shards, which I can then use to gain other weapons or armor.. or buy weapons and armor outright on the weekends from Xur or infuse more power into specific weapons. There are things I can accomplish every time I log in to Destiny. BUT for the people who complain there is "nothing to do" or "no incentive" in Destiny, those things aren't meaningful enough to count to them.
My point is, just because there's stuff earn doesn't always make that stuff worthwhile. In both games. Whether it is or isn't worthwhile depends on the player and how much enjoyment they're getting out of the gameplay itself. So it's not as simple as "Warframe does this better" or not. Taste heavily plays a role in what "better" is.
You don't need to spend money.
Fight bosses that give you components to build other frames and collect a full set. Then trade those warframe parts+blueprints with other players for platinum. Use that platinum in lieu of spending money in the game.
Ehh? It wasn't Jeff's decision to release the game before the raid was live. I hold that decision entirely at Activision/Bungie's feet and not any of the reviewers.
Holding the raid back like that really made no sense at all.
ok that was a long ass review but has completely sold me to give Warframe another try. Basically seems like me and the reviewer had the exact same experience with it when the game first came out.
Niceguydan8
Member
I was just letting you know it was there
Warframe is a game about doing what you want. If I want to work my way towards those vertical progression things, I can do that. If I want to try out new/different types of guns, I can work my way towards getting those. If I see a cool Frame, I can work my way towards unlocking that. The whole "I unlock something new everyday" is largely by choice. A player is choosing exactly what he or she wants to unlock. There is no RNG to that sort of thing. If I want Sword A, I get rewarded Sword A after I craft it. I think that may be lost in the quotes. Players are basically never at the expense of RNG when it comes to getting new things. So yeah, if the game itself isn't your thing, the rewards won't be either. That being said, it feels much more rewarding to me to work towards crafting a specific item, crafting that item, and then figuring out the build for that item. I don't mind how Destiny does their stuff a whole lot, but I just don't think the RNG drops that are often times catalysts for progression feels as rewarding, I guess. I enjoy both games, so this isn't a case of me actively not liking how Destiny plays, I just think there are games out there (Warframe) that have a more interesting and rewarding structure that I wouldn't mind Bungie taking a look at and seeing if they can put their own spin on it.
I think the point behind those sorts of sayings is that the rewards fall off pretty quickly in Destiny 2. I think that's by design, but I also think that leaves some of the userbase wanting a little more
But in the end you're right, different strokes for different folks!
Alexander DeLarge
Member
This was before he got to the Second Dream/War Within (basically Warframe 2.0 and the quests get super good) too, he's made multiple videos about how he recommends it even more now.
Nope, Warframe doesn't have an endgame, certainly not in the "designed content" sense. It just has a lot of stuff to do, game-changing stuff to chase, builds to experiment with, gear to upgrade and bars to fill.
Though the biggest difference is that Warframe is actually focused on replayabilty with repeatable wave-based modes and procedural generation, while Destiny is still being designed like a linear single-playthrough game.
I just finished The Second Dream.
I think I said "Holy fucking shit" at some of the story implications and reveals at least 5 times.
The music for that entire sequence was some of the best I've ever experienced in a shooter.
The art design of one of the big reveals is amazing. Jaw-droppingly great looking, even.
I'm still coming to grips with the gameplay changes.
Shil Pencer
Member
The game that was blasted for being F2P even though it is not F2P is being suggested to learn from a F2P game that people actually like even though F2P is also the devil around here
NullPointer
Member
Its collecting stuff for the sake of having different loadouts, different builds and thus different ways to play with different roles, and that constantly expands your repertoire for new missions types and enemies that are added to the game. For instance, with the Plains of Eidolon expansion extending the game's engagement ranges across larger landscapes, players are going to break out their old sniper rifles or start to collect them, with the purpose of having several sniper rifles at the ready depending upon the scenario. Another example is when DE added the Harrow warframe, which has a requirement to run a new mission type called Extraction in order to find one of its parts. Breaking down that mission's objectives and finding a custom build to overcome it led to me breaking out a frame I don't use as much, releveling it, and using a very custom set of weapons in a particular team role to solve it. This is how things go in Warframe.
If you want to collect a bunch of gear and then not use it that's up to you, but refining that gear to where its useful for different scenarios is the meaning behind it. And what may not be top tier right now could come into its own with a game update, or a new mod that changes how you can use them.
I know I'm an odd man out here but I still prefer Warframe, not only for the 60fps and ability to turn off auto-aim, but for the effects of weapons on the target (gibs, knockback, pinning, blast, poison, fire, confusion, armor degradation, shield stripping, etc). Destiny has one very simple elemental system with burns - Warframe blows that out to a far more complicated system, and a more rewarding one personally. And every weapon handles and feels different. That and I dislike yellow bars that exist purely to make an enemy a sponge. I'd rather be able to look up the nature of an enemy's armor on the wiki, and then bring weapons with specific builds to make that armor melt.
Yep. For people who don't think the game has lore or that it can't pull off story quests, look at some of these completely non-spoiler reactions to The Second Dream questline:
Warframe | The Second Dream: Community Reactions
SkillUp: How (and when) Warframe Delivers One of Gaming's Greatest Quest Experiences
Niceguydan8
Member
Free to play is not inherently bad.
Poor monetization practices in free to play games is what people dislike. Unfortunately, free to play more often than not goes hand in hand with poor monetization practices
The raid isn't the issue, nor does Destiny 2 have a content issue. That's one thing they fixed pretty much.
It's the utter lack of using that content in a meaningful way that's the issue. It's ripping out end game gameplay loops and failing to design new ones. That's the issue.
Example: Why don't Adventures reward specific loot drops tied to their story? Why don't lost sectors reward specific mod drops?
Why does only the raid and trials have specific loot?
If they were going to rip out the RNG rolled loot, they needed to provide an order of magnitude more armor / weapons and put it behind the content they're not even currently using.
I completely agree. I certainly don't want to end up in another grind loop where I'm trapped trying to find a specific strke weapon only for it to drop with fucking VACUUM, but the game needs more rewards.
Welp, guess I won't be getting anything done today. Back to his channel.
Rexatality
Member
I feel this thread by Slayerage on the subreddit illustrates the issues better and what needs to be improved
And TBF, people blew that god roll chase out of proportion. A god roll grasp of Malok was never epicly better than a random roll, nor was it better than a good roll on a weapon of the same arch type. It might have given a top player a small edge looking for the slimmest of margins against other top players, but for 99% of the community it's not going to make or break your skill set. Personally I think you can if or those whining going after a goal as trivial as that, it's there for the fun if it drops. If the reward (+0.001% handling and accuracy) isn't worth it, move on. It's not worth getting in a tizzy or typing it to real issues
There was some toxicity there, but to focus on that seems to miss the bigger issues.
Like Mythoclast or year 1 Gjallarhorn, actual god weapons, where asswipes were literally gating people from joining them because of RNG drops (which btw was great to weed out people I never want to associate with). That didn't happen with the strike loot, but it did with these vastly OP exotics, and mostly because of exotic balance issues and drop rates. Bungie fixed that in D2, mostly, thank God.
Really don't want random loot rolls to come back, nor do I want Crucible to become the super-grenade-shotgun party that D1 was. I'm all about adding in more rewards and more game modes, but I just don't want to return to the bullshit grind that frustrated me and repeatedly burnt me out on D1.
I get his position. I understand why streamers, in particular, want those changes. People who are spending more than 5-6 hours a week on Destiny are going to run out of meaningful content and I feel for them. At the same time, however, it's sad that as soon as I find myself enjoying Crucible people are hating it.