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[TeamLeftMatch]

Is that not what Metacritic does? Is that not what most gamers actually do and why scores still exist? I had Hellblade pre-ordered so Jim's was the first review I saw after playing the game myself. Suffice to say I disagreed with the score and thought it was petty and not up to his usual standards.

Well I'm glad you disagreed with that score, becuase guess who else did, Jim Fucking Sterling Son. He changed it to reflect what he felt and admitted that he messed up.

Also why the fuck are you posting about his review when you haven't even fucking looked at it. Watch the review, then come back and make see if Jim really hated this game.

 

[timberger]

But nothing said here has done anything to suggest why my video today is wrong. You can drag up the old bitterness over a fuckup all day long, but I'm afraid I'm not gonna let it undermine my arguments today.

I'm not trying to undermine your arguments or suggest you're somehow wrong here, Jim. I was just posting my own thoughts on the matter being discussed, but I can appreciate you're probably sick of hearing about the whole thing at this point and it wasn't my intention to keep throwing it back in your face, so I'll just apologise and say no more on it I think.

 

[Harlequin]

Is that not what Metacritic does? Is that not what most gamers actually do and why scores still exist? I had Hellblade pre-ordered so Jim's was the first review I saw after playing the game myself. Suffice to say I disagreed with the score and thought it was petty and not up to his usual standards.

So you're using the "everyone else is doing it, too" excuse? Just because most people are being idiots when it comes to reviews (and a hell of a lot of other things but I digress) doesn't mean you're not allowed to rise above that.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Read my post again, smart guy.

I did, I still don’t see a part where you said you actually read the review. The score is meaningless witout knowing the context behind it, which is what the review is for.

Why are you trying to argue that he ‘shat on the game’ without reading what he actually wrote about it.

 

[Jebusman]

Read my post again, smart guy. I never said I do that, I said others do that.

Oh so you're actually just concern trolling.

That whole bit with the "we never forget" was just a character.

Right?

 

[MrS]

Well I'm glad you disagreed with that score, becuase guess who else did, Jim Fucking Sterling Son. He changed it to reflect what he felt and admitted that he messed up.

Also why the fuck are you posting about his review when you haven't even fucking looked at it. Watch the review, then come back and make see if Jim really hated this game.

What are you talking about? I said in my post that Jim's review was the first I saw after playing the game myself.

Oh so you're actually just concern trolling.

That whole bit with the "we never forget" was just a character.

Right?

Jim's fuckery with the Hellblade review is partly the reason I pulled my Patreon funding. It has soured me on him a bit.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Another factor that people straight up ignore when talking about "triple A bloat" is that devs these days take a shit ton more creative risks compared to last gen. Both in terms of game design and in terms of the aesthetic. No idea how people can genuinely find lack of creativity to be a valid criticism of the triple A industry in this day and age considering the vast amount of different aesthetics we've had this gen.

 

[TeamLeftMatch]

What are you talking about? I said in my post that Jim's review was the first I saw after playing the game myself.

Did you actually read the review or look at the score. Because anyone can look at a score. If you actually watched the review you would have seen the constant praise he gave the game.

 

[Freshmaker]

He insults his viewership by thinking we're so dense that we don't see what he's doing: overpraising Hellblade to make up for the bad review. I don't believe he is being sincere.

I'd hope that most of his viewership is smart enough to understand the joke.

 

[Sami+]

Nah, I just don't like bullshit said about me.


It was an unprecedented situation for me and I handled it wrong. I admitted to it, quickly, and did what I could to change the situation.

Once again, part of why I did what I did was *because* of how into Hellblade I was and how much it represented what I wanted games to break away from. I was absolutely rash, absolutely fucked up, and absolutely knew I'd get shit for it again once I posted this video today.

But nothing said here has done anything to suggest why my video today is wrong. You can drag up the old bitterness over a fuckup all day long, but I'm afraid I'm not gonna let it undermine my arguments today.

Yo I just wanna say I'm glad you post on here to clarify your points and I hope some people being dummies doesn't reflect so badly on the rest of us as to affect that.

I swear in this stupid industry you're not allowed to change your mind on anything ever

 

[MrS]

Did you actually read the review or look at the score. Because anyone can look at a score. If you actually watched the review you would have seen the constant praise he gave the game.

I watched the video, which Jim has since removed from YouTube, in which he talked about the game at length. What are you trying to do here exactly? I was posting in the review thread the day it launched and I said I thought Jim's review was bullshit then, as I do now.

 

[Ahasverus]

Another factor that people straight up ignore when talking about "triple A bloat" is that devs these days take a shit ton more creative risks compared to last gen. Both in terms of game design and in terms of the aesthetic. No idea how people can genuinely find lack of creativity to be a valid criticism of the triple A industry in this day and age considering the vast amount of different aesthetics we've had this gen.

This is true. Last gen was creatively dry.

 

[Sami+]

Another factor that people straight up ignore when talking about "triple A bloat" is that devs these days take a shit ton more creative risks compared to last gen. Both in terms of game design and in terms of the aesthetic. No idea how people can genuinely find lack of creativity to be a valid criticism of the triple A industry in this day and age considering the vast amount of different aesthetics we've had this gen.

Yeah last gen was fucking dire compared to the current one imo.

 

[Spikematic]

The biggest PR stories surrounding Hellblade upon its launch were Jim's piss poor, spiteful review and the permadeath debacle. These topics were at the forefront of conversation when Hellblade launched. While Hellblade has been successful, NT could have done a better job with the PR, if only to allay customer fears.

I do enjoy Jim's grovelling and backpedalling RE Hellblade though, as if it will somehow erase the 1/10 score he gave it. We haven't forgotten, Jim, and your constant praise of the game won't make us forget either.

Dear god, this is a parody post right? It reads like one of those stereotypical "us gamers!" rants one often stumbles upon at many an unfortunate corner of the internet...

 

[takriel]

lol at the Jim apologists in here. Come on, he fucked up with the Hellblade review, there's no way around it. He made a stupid mistake that no serious reviewer should ever do -- namely giving a game a 1/10 because of an emotional overreaction to a bug.

 

[TeamLeftMatch]

I watched the video, which Jim has since removed from YouTube, in which he talked about the game at length. What are you trying to do here exactly? I was posting in the review thread the day it launched and I said I thought Jim's review was bullshit then, as I do now.

I'm trying to understand why you think he's shitting on it when in the very same video he praises the game extensively.

 

[Steroyd]

Stop taking review numbers so seriously.

Fixed.

This is what it's really about, text be damned.

 

[Armaros]

I get the feeling Jim doesn't like to be criticised.


It seems like Jim is overcompensating with his praise for Hellblade. I certainly don't remember him being so effusive when Hellblade launched.

Do you have anything of substance to add or are you just here to shit post?

looking at yout posting habits, apparently jim apparently isnt the only person overcompensating for something.

but from your responses, it seems everything is projection. you are trying way too hard to be edgy.

I feel secondhand embrassment reading your posts

 

[Granjinha]

Jim talks like that in his videos as well. Why is it any different when the user did? both are cringy as f

because one is a character and the other is not?

i don't even follow jim's content (it's not the kind of thing that i enjoy watching etc) but there is a clear difference here.

 

[Berordn]

lol at the Jim apologists in here. Come on, he fucked up with the Hellblade review, there's no way around it. He made a stupid mistake that no serious reviewer should ever do -- namely giving a game a 1/10 because of an emotional overreaction to a bug.

And he acknowledged it, changed the score and hasn't done it since.

If there were a history of this, sure call him out on it. A one-time thing where he himself acknowledged how rash and inappropriate the score was on his own channel? We can probably let it slide.

 

[Necron]

Great video, Jim.

I hope more games and developers follow this route.

 

[Gravy Boat]

lol at the Jim apologists in here. Come on, he fucked up with the Hellblade review, there's no way around it. He made a stupid mistake that no serious reviewer should ever do -- namely giving a game a 1/10 because of an emotional overreaction to a bug.

No one is saying he didn’t do that. He’s in this very thread admitting that’s what he did.

People are so weird when it comes to review scores.

 

[Armaros]

lol at the Jim apologists in here. Come on, he fucked up with the Hellblade review, there's no way around it. He made a stupid mistake that no serious reviewer should ever do -- namely giving a game a 1/10 because of an emotional overreaction to a bug.

So how embrassed will you be when you realize the person in question is in this thread wnd apologized already?

are you jumping at the chance to join the one man anti-jim edgy group? im not sure level of edgyness in this illustrious group couls handle both of you.

dont trip in your mad rush to post without reading the thread

 

[Killer Queen]

My, aren't we edgy and vindictive?

Real shit lol

 

[Jebusman]

Jim's fuckery with the Hellblade review is partly the reason I pulled my Patreon funding. It has soured me on him a bit.

I mean do what you wish with your own money, but this is probably one of the pettiest things on the planet, and stems entirely from your inability to actually read past a number, or apparently refuse to believe at all he can be sincerely sorry. I mean you could confront him directly about this but I have a feeling you rather just continue to be passive aggressive.

 

[FelipeMGM]

Have Ninja Theory said how much the game sold in total? Steamspy says 170K, my guess is that PS4 would be higher than that

Development was long (3+ years, maybe 4?) with a team of ~20 I believe, so I wonder how its doing in terms of recouping the budget and making a worthwhile profit (which would be like doubling the budget in total revenue or something like that)

 

[Phreakuency]

The biggest PR stories surrounding Hellblade upon its launch were Jim's piss poor, spiteful review and the permadeath debacle. These topics were at the forefront of conversation when Hellblade launched. While Hellblade has been successful, NT could have done a better job with the PR, if only to allay customer fears.

I do enjoy Jim's grovelling and backpedalling RE Hellblade though, as if it will somehow erase the 1/10 score he gave it. We haven't forgotten, Jim, and your constant praise of the game won't make us forget either.

Yeah, like any of us haven't made a mistake in our lives...

Jim proved what a decent guy he is by having the balls to publicly (and quite genuinely) admitting he made a mistake.

 

[Harlequin]

Have Ninja Theory said how much the game sold in total? Steamspy says 170K, my guess is that PS4 would be higher than that

Development was long (3+ years, maybe 4?) with a team of ~20 I believe, so I wonder how its doing in terms of recouping the budget and making a worthwhile profit (which would be like doubling the budget in total revenue or something like that)

They didn't start out with 20 people. I think for the first year or so they were closer to 10. And the estimate I've seen floating around is that they'd need 300k sales to break even which most people are assuming they've passed.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This is true. Last gen was creatively dry.

Yeah last gen was fucking dire compared to the current one imo.

Even if we boil the criticism down to the most expensive gams having similar design trends, that's a thing that a)happens with every generation of games as it's the nature of huge games to be huge influences as they tend to have a loto f good ideas that others could put a twist on from a game design standpoint, (instead of stationary towers that show off every activity, how about moving towers and/or towers that unlock the geography but not the pinpoint location of the content??), and b)that actually has occurred with less frequency this gen as more devs take creative risks and genres previously thought dead are brought back to the forefront leading to a WAY larger variety of games available to players.

 

[Maximo]

What are you talking about? I said in my post that Jim's review was the first I saw after playing the game myself.

Jim's fuckery with the Hellblade review is partly the reason I pulled my Patreon funding. It has soured me on him a bit.

I also give people money I hate.

 

[RPGam3r]

I watched the video, which Jim has since removed from YouTube, in which he talked about the game at length. What are you trying to do here exactly? I was posting in the review thread the day it launched and I said I thought Jim's review was bullshit then, as I do now.

Its kinda bullshit how you keep responding to this thread and dogging on the guy who replied to you directly and indirectly. At least have the decency to talk directly to the person.

 

[Wozman23]

I normally don't like Jim's videos, but I appreciate this one, taking exception to one point.

The "Independent AAA" moniker that Ninja Theory was using was trying to bridge the gap between indie games and AAA games. They strove to build a game with the production values of modern AAA.

While there are plenty of negative aspects to modern AAA games, things like microtransactions and DLC weren't always synonymous with AAA. Ninja Theory wasn't trying to adopt the divisive aspects of AAA. If anything they were trying to return to what AAA, or the B-tier - which is all but dead these days - was in previous generations.

Plus, with many people, the term indie still has a negative connotation. When a lot of people think indie, they think of shallower games, and retro graphics. They don't think of how innovative indie games are, or how their scope and scale allows them to deviate from the norm.

So, by applying a term like "Independent AAA" you can foster the idea that your product will take the good aspects from both indie and AAA.

I really hope that Ninja Theory did create a successful blueprint. I'm glad Jim brought up Raven, and Visceral, and Overstrike, because each of them could have benefited from this approach. It saddens me that the first two studios have been relegated to working on uninspired franchises, and I still wish we'd have gotten the campy Overstrike instead of Fuse - which despite the benefit of the IP being owned by Insomniac, is pretty much dead in the water.

Plenty of franchises could benefit from the approach. Those of us who loved The Order:1886 could have got a budgeted sequel. Maybe a follow up to Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time would exist, or Puppeteer 2.

And maybe, with enough success, today's AAA would realize that cookie cutter games with microtransactions and tacked on multiplayer aren't necessarily the best business choice.

 

[Trago]

Very good episode. I too have grown tired of the "GO BIG or go home" attitude that the big publishers can't seem to stop having. Hellblade, and recently Observer are great examples of mid tier games done right. Those kinds of games pave the way for studios like Ninja Theory to get bigger and more successful.

Why publishers seem to actively avoid doing those kinds of games is beyond me.

 

[Aselith]

I do enjoy Jim's grovelling and backpedalling RE Hellblade though, as if it will somehow erase the 1/10 score he gave it. We haven't forgotten, Jim, and your constant praise of the game won't make us forget either.

Uh, why would he care?

 

[CannonFodder52]

We haven't forgotten, Jim!

Spoiler

Good video though. Really gotta pick up Hellblade soon

 

[jett]

Plenty of franchises could benefit from the approach. Those of us who loved The Order:1886 could have got a budgeted sequel. Maybe a follow up to Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time would exist, or Puppeteer 2.

What could these games, which are pretty much only appreciated for their production values and looked rather expensive to make, learn from Hellblade?

I think Jim propping up Hellblade as an example of indie games breaking some sort of mold is weird. Honestly I'm not quite what was his point in this video besides finding an excuse to shit on the usual suspects, as is his M.O. Hellblade is filled with extremely repetitive sections that make you backtrack constantly around already small areas, just to stretch out an already short game. And if you've watched their making of videos, you'd know that one of the ways they saved money on this game's production was by getting a lot motion capture equipment loaned to them by friends. Then there's using people from the team as actors. Neither is feasible for a lot of people. Personally I didn't even like the game.

There are better indie games to shine a spotlight on than this one.

 

[Alrus]

I'm not certain using Hellblade as an shining example of indie mega success when it probably just sold okay (it's at 170k on steam I think?) is particularly apt?

I'm assuming Jim is talking about it so much because of the AAA indie PR speak because I don't think this game is going to spark massive change in the way games are produced at all.

 

[Wulfram]

Another factor that people straight up ignore when talking about "triple A bloat" is that devs these days take a shit ton more creative risks compared to last gen. Both in terms of game design and in terms of the aesthetic. No idea how people can genuinely find lack of creativity to be a valid criticism of the triple A industry in this day and age considering the vast amount of different aesthetics we've had this gen.

Really? I don't see it.

edit: I mean, maybe last gen was worse, I don't know, but I don't see the creativity this generation.

 

[FelipeMGM]

They didn't start out with 20 people. I think for the first year or so they were closer to 10. And the estimate I've seen floating around is that they'd need 300k sales to break even which most people are assuming they've passed.

oh yeah they must have have easily passed the 300K mark.

Really hope they are successful with this model

 

[Freshmaker]

Really? I don't see it.

edit: I mean, maybe last gen was worse, I don't know, but I don't see the creativity this generation.

Reskinned Assassin's Creed/Farcry and putting beanies on character is super risky.

 

[Wozman23]

What could these games, which are pretty much only appreciated for their production values and looked rather expensive to make, learn from Hellblade?

I think Jim propping up Hellblade as an example of indie games breaking some sort of mold is weird.... Personally I didn't even like the game.

There are better indie games to shine a spotlight on than this one.

For one, The Order probably should have been priced at $30-40, regardless of how much it cost to make. It was a 6-8 hour linear game, with no multiplayer component, and little replayability. I ended up loving it despite spending $60 on it, but a lot of people's criticism was that it wasn't worth $60. We see it time and time again. Once the price dropped, and people were getting it for ~$10, opinions seemed to get more positive. Placing a lower price on something to garner greater sales beats placing a $60 price point on something and selling virtually no copies.

In Puppeteer's case, it did launch at a budget price of $40. However it made about as much noise as a tree falling in the forest. Creator, Gavin Moore, hasn't been heard from much post-Puppeteer, but one interview he did mentioned steering clear of retail and focusing on the digital marketplace. You do that, and self publish, and there's one less hand in the cookie jar. Puppeteer sold so poorly it probably wouldn't have helped much in that case, but in certain scenarios it could be the difference between losing money or turning a profit.

Plus, as you said with Hellblade, Ninja Theory looked for ways to cheapen production costs. However, they still managed to give Hellblade a sense of uniqueness with things like binaural audio and the focus on mental illness. Maybe graphics don't have to be bleeding edge. Maybe you find ways to accomplish similar tasks with smaller teams, especially in cases where IPs, and the engines that run them, are already established.

Regardless, if you didn't like Hellblade, you're probably not going to agree or want things to emulate it.

 

[sjay1994]

Reskinned Assassin's Creed/Farcry and putting beanies on character is super risky.

Assassin's Creed Unity

-Attempted to create an open world where thousands of NPCs were on screen engaging in numerous different behaviors asides from agro the player

- Created 1 to 1 replicas of famous Landmarks with interiors

- Redid the entire control scheme and parkor

-Changed the entire combat system and stealth mechanics

Far Cry Primal

-Literally took out the guns from a shooter

-Entire game in a proto language, causing an alienation that is seen in games not in english

I don't even like these 2 games, but trying to say they didn't try to do anything new and took no risks is inherently false. Shit, the entire reason AC:U was so buggy was because they bit off more than they could chew.

 

[Nick_C]

The biggest PR stories surrounding Hellblade upon its launch were Jim's piss poor, spiteful review and the permadeath debacle. These topics were at the forefront of conversation when Hellblade launched. While Hellblade has been successful, NT could have done a better job with the PR, if only to allay customer fears.

I do enjoy Jim's grovelling and backpedalling RE Hellblade though, as if it will somehow erase the 1/10 score he gave it. We haven't forgotten, Jim, and your constant praise of the game won't make us forget either.

He insults his viewership by thinking we're so dense that we don't see what he's doing: overpraising Hellblade to make up for the bad review. I don't believe he is being sincere.


The review damaged his integrity. We both know it to be true.

Is that not what Metacritic does? Is that not what most gamers actually do and why scores still exist? I had Hellblade pre-ordered so Jim's was the first review I saw after playing the game myself. Suffice to say I disagreed with the score and thought it was petty and not up to his usual standards.

Read my post again, smart guy. I never said I do that, I said others do that.

You've spent most of your time in this thread deflecting responsibility for your opinions. From the laughable "we won't forget" bullshit to the "no one else reads the review" line that you threw out there, I think it's about time you took a minute to think on whether or not hiding behind "we", "us" and "they" is going to make you look any less petty.

Spoiler

It doesn't.

Also, his original review wasn't available mere hours after it went up. Curious to know how you were able to download the game, complete it in its entirety and watch the review in less than 6 hours.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Really? I don't see it.

edit: I mean, maybe last gen was worse, I don't know, but I don't see the creativity this generation.

Then you aren't paying attention. On top of a complete rebirth of stylized games being commonplace, there's also a ridiculous variety in terms of aesthetics not just from studio to studio but when you compare studios to each other.

Reskinned Assassin's Creed/Farcry and putting beanies on character is super risky.

Instead of providing /r/gaming style lazy hot takes click this and actually form a reasonable response. Btw yes, having a native american lead and a woman lead an expansion IS riskier than having a protagonist that looks like this:

 

[RooMHM]

What is there to like from hellblade ingameplay terms ?

 

[breakfuss]

LMAO “triiiiiple A” games. I can’t be the only one who finds his voices hilarious. Happy for Hellblade and hope other successes like it can follow.

 

[GamingPheasant]

Uh, why would he care?

Well. he has to care because unlike his corporate peers, Jim is on a value-for-value model. Any negative issue that can be blown out-of-proportion he has to address no matter how trivial because if unchecked can potentially doom his Patreon subscriptions.

 

[pa22word]

Assassin's Creed Unity

-Attempted to create an open world where thousands of NPCs were on screen engaging in numerous different behaviors asides from agro the player

- Created 1 to 1 replicas of famous Landmarks with interiors

- Redid the entire control scheme and parkor

-Changed the entire combat system and stealth mechanics

Far Cry Primal

-Literally took out the guns from a shooter

-Entire game in a proto language, causing an alienation that is seen in games not in english

I don't even like these 2 games, but trying to say they didn't try to do anything new and took no risks is false.

That's all window dressing though. Sure unity is a pretty game to look at and has some interesting tech, but it's baked around a boring as sin game with the most cookie cutter aaa design imaginable. Sure far cry primal does some interesting things with the language but the story it's servicing is threadbare and banal, and yeah it got rid of guns but replaced it with what ended up being some of the most boring first person combat I've ever seen mixed with the same boring cookie cutter aaa game and world design for the heart of the game.

The biggest sin of ubi development imo is that they have the space, tech, and worlds to do the most interesting and awesome games imaginable and do boring cookie cutter games with it that release as if off an assembly line.

Supposedly they've learned they can't get away with running in place for generations at a time anymore and ac and the new far cry are actually doing new things mechanically to try and break up the monotony a bit which is great, but after what a decade or so of them running on the same wheel year after year game after game I don't really blame any one for telling them to show first and I'll buy later.

 

[Crossing Eden]

What is there to like from hellblade ingameplay terms ?

The realization that every design design decision goes in line with the story of the game including the combat system.

 

[RooMHM]

The realization that every design design decision goes in line with the story of the game including the combat system.

Ok. It's far too repetitive though.
Whzt if I want to have fun playing it rather than making the story advance to see the ending ?