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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE

B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

So I'm at the very end and clearing up doors to see the final door where apparently all the "tie-in to future entries" content is, since there's not much otherwise in the game building up the later games.

But at the same time I don't know if I really want to spend hours trying to beat the Nightmare Arena or the Kiseki Quiz mini-game. I kind of just want to finish this so I can move on to Zero next year.

Is there a youtube link where I can just watch the final door?

Oh wait, just saw the faq says I only need to beat the normal arena and first quiz to open it. Yay, I already did those so I got this!
 
F

Fhoenix

Member
Haha, didn't you say you are overlevelled and nothing in this game can stop you?)
Honestly Nightmare arena is not all that hard. Dedicate one character to casting earth shield and then even both bosses casting S-Crafts simultaneously is unlikely to wipe you out. You just have to kill you-know-who before he spawns too many clones.

I hope I can finish Zero this year and start Ao next)
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

Fhoenix said:
Haha, didn't you say you are overlevelled and nothing in this game can stop you?)
Honestly Nightmare arena is not all that hard. Dedicate one character to casting earth shield and then even both bosses casting S-Crafts simultaneously is unlikely to wipe you out. You just have to kill you-know-who before he spawns too many clones.

I hope I can finish Zero this year and start Ao next)
Click to expand...

Actually I'm kind of underleveled since I skip most normal encounters (I'm a little worried I won't have enough battles to open the 400 battle door; didn't at the time I found it), it's just that with all the spells unlocked, maximum quartz and characters like
Overgear Tita
I feel extremely end-game rpg overpowered in most encounters.

But some of these bosses are still nuts because they're even more broken. I mean:
Cassius was such bullshit. I was doing great and kicking his ass using earth wall efficiently and buffing my characters with speed up/def up/atk up. Was 5-10 minutes into the fight, getting near the end:

Then he gets down to like 15% HP left and casts his ATK/SPD up and suddenly he was having a turn every other turn and was casting his ougi and doing all party attacks and he wiped MY ENTIRE PARTY in like 2 minutes. I just lowered the difficulty after that and beat him because I didn't want to deal with it again.

When I saw nightmare arena was him AND Loewe at the same time I was like...no thanks.


Also another weird fight was against Wiseman and the two giant hell enemies. In the cutscene right before it Kevin unlocks his new S-Craft and he's like like "Yes, this battle would have been impossible for the old me, but now with this OMG S-CRAFT I CAN DO IT". Unfortunately Kevin had died in a freak accident the battle before so he had 0 CP and I spent the whole battle getting his CP up to 100 thinking it'd be an event fight and the S-Craft would do something to turn the tide of the battle. But when I finally did it, it just did some ok damage to all 3 enemies and that was it. Basically had no effect on the fight and I had to use normal smart tactics to survive it with just Kevin and Reese. ^^;
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Bebpo said:
Actually I'm kind of underleveled since I skip most normal encounters (I'm a little worried I won't have enough battles to open the 400 battle door; didn't at the time I found it), it's just that with all the spells unlocked, maximum quartz and characters like
Overgear Tita
I feel extremely end-game rpg overpowered in most encounters.

But some of these bosses are still nuts because they're even more broken. I mean:
Cassius was such bullshit. I was doing great and kicking his ass using earth wall efficiently and buffing my characters with speed up/def up/atk up. Was 5-10 minutes into the fight, getting near the end:

Then he gets down to like 15% HP left and casts his ATK/SPD up and suddenly he was having a turn every other turn and was casting his ougi and doing all party attacks and he wiped MY ENTIRE PARTY in like 2 minutes. I just lowered the difficulty after that and beat him because I didn't want to deal with it again.

When I saw nightmare arena was him AND Rave at the same time I was like...no thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, I did warn you, albeit it's a different battle.

Being on Hard difficulty probably did shift the paradigm a little but the first time fighting
Cassius
is faaaar harder than the Nightmare Arena fights since you have yet to get the (or more of) high-end equips. (
Like Zemuria Stone equips, and another 超・闘魂ハチマキ
).

I do think though that
Loewe has a clone limit as he never did summon more than 3 clones in the few times I did that battle.

What's annoying though is how fucking terrible drops are. I have no qualms about difficulty in early/mid-game, but late game expects you to have some of those Equip+2 stuff from
Doppels
.
Pom The Tempest was even getting 0 damage from my S-Craft
.

I spent over 10 hour (total) trying to get those gears, and they won't drop. And in the occasion that they do, they tend to be duplicate of what I already had.

It doesn't make it any better that you have to wait for a turn or two for them to transform, the transformation is random (and therefore which equip drops also random), and the fact that stacking
怪盗B
's mantaeu, Blessing Quarts, Drop Rate on Help Support, and using Josette's thingy or Shera's Fox Tail didn't get me much. -___-

Also another weird fight was against Wiseman and the two giant hell enemies. Basically had no effect on the fight and I had to use normal smart tactics to survive it with just Kevin and Reese. ^^;
Click to expand...

I can't really check since I got my Vita stolen (along with my gameplay data), but I am pretty sure that each of them are weak to his each of his S-Craft's element.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Is there any known formula for the dodge rate in any of the Kiseki games?

By the 3rd, the AGL quartz are going +5 AGL... which looks and feels useless as hell, especially when you have equips like that Shinobi outfit (+100 AGL) or the Shinobi tabi (another +100 AGL) or the Card of Fate (+50 AGL, prevents sudden death). And even on non-extreme cases, we have plenty of armor, shoes, and accessory that give 5/10/20.

Edit: I know they changed the quartz to +dodge % in Zero, but I'm more interested in the effects of AGL.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Dodge seems kind of useless and a rarity. I'd never depend on it as a strategy. Better to just buff defenses.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
In the 3rd (Hard Mode at least), they're not actually useless. But I'd guess that's due to the fact that you have stuff that give very high AGL (Shinobi equipes, etc) to the end that late game bosses
inc. Arena people - Cassius, Loewe
will get a enough number of missed attack that it can matter.

I tend to put one of my party in an AGL setup, and this can do wonders. Having your healers or those with highly functional skills (
Kevin with Grahl Sphere or Kloze with her heal S Craft, etc
) can last a long while with combination of (very) high AGL and Earth Wall as the Earth Wall will not be consumed if the attack misses.

For most of the game, I mainly used Earth Wall (with support from the Area Scope2 Quartz if permitted) since Gaia Shield is just too expensive to keep up the whole time. So it can end up easing the... "busyness" of person(s) keeping up the safety of the party..
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

So yeah, uh I haven't fought 400 battles. Any way to tell how many battles you've fought so far in the game? And anywhere to grind battles blindly?
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

This is actually really frustrating. Fought like 30 battles in the last 25 mins. How can you
make a game with a requirement for "Beat X amount of battles to see the final content" and then not have any way to see how many battles you've fought in the game so far. I just keep doing 10 and then checking the door. This could go on for hours :\
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Well, most would assume you'd actually battle that much to level up throughout the game. =P

Isn't there a general record in the notebook though?
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Shouta said:
Well, most would assume you'd actually battle that much to level up throughout the game. =P

Isn't there a general record in the notebook though?
Click to expand...

You're right! There is. 352/400 as of now. So about another 30-40 mins of grind yaaawnnn.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Real talk though, why bother even fighting normal battles in the Kiseki series? At least in the Sora trilogy. The dungeons are bland and repetitive and go on for screens with an enemy every 30 feet, but the games are fairly easy and the xp scales so you'll catch up in levels when you do fight enemies or fight bosses.

And normal encounters are no challenge or anything other than a time waste, CP builder. I see the Sora trilogy as basically visual novels + boss fights.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
If you're playing on Normal, it's not too bad but you do need the experience on harder difficulties. More important than XP are the Sepith to unlock your char and buy new gear, lol. Normal/Easy are just for experiencing the story but the game can provide challenge.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Shouta said:
If you're playing on Normal, it's not too bad but you do need the experience on harder difficulties. More important than XP are the Sepith to unlock your char and buy new gear, lol. Normal/Easy are just for experiencing the story but the game can provide challenge.
Click to expand...

At least in 3rd you find good enough gear in the dungeons that you never have to buy anything and I've had more than enough to unlock all the slots and make 3-4 of every top tier quartz. I mean I do fight normal enemy encounters, just maybe about 50% of them. Isn't that the point of visual enemies instead of random in jrpgs? So you can avoid them.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

Ok, there's some real good stuff in
Olivert's door.
I'm definitely looking forward to Sen. 3rd is a very good prelude.

That airship to airship flower throw declaration of war...perfect.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Bebpo said:
The dungeons are bland and repetitive and go on for screens with an enemy every 30 feet
Click to expand...

@___@

Come back to me when you're using セルジュ and アージュ. Gahahahahaha.
___________________________________________________________

On the other news, I have now bought the DL版 of Sen II.

And the physical copies should be coming in 3 weeks. /laughsmaniacally.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Thank ya!

The trilogy uses calendar year dates sometimes, but it's so rare it's hard to remember where they fit in the timeline if it's not apparent by the context.
 
G

Gu4n

Member
Small update from my side: I reached the end of Zero Evolution's Intermisson, but temporarily shelved the game to play Persona Q after burning through SC, The 3rd and the first half of Zero. I love how Zero uses the international relations discussed throughout Sora as a common knowledge and throws in its internal conflicts, making it a highly political oriented game and possibly a different entry point in the series.

Like for most people, Randy and Tio easily became my favourites early on and I've started to appreciate Lloyd's keen vision as of the early third chapter. Also, since this might be considered a spoiler,
I never grow tired of Estelle's voiced appearances, so I'm all down for a Sora Evo, Falcom.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

You know, it's nice that the game tells me "This is the point of no return, do all the doors now" but maybe they should have told me the last dungeon requires you to split into 4 teams and use EVERYONE.

I had a great team, all equipped and ready for a last dungeon and final boss and I'd watched all the doors so I went for it. But I had a million sepith that I could have used to make a ton of quartz for all 12 party members and bought the best equip for everyone no problem and unlocked everyone's slots. Instead I'm winging the final dungeon with what I've got. Luckily the dungeon seems pretty easy so far, but it's still annoying.

I guess the game figures that you'll constantly be upgrading all 12 members or something. I would just swap all the equip/quartz off a member when I switched him/her out and onto the new one so I basically had 4 sets of perfect equip/quartz and that's it.

I gotta say that micro-managing all the party members is the worst part of The 3rd. That and the Orphan door :p
 
H

Hasemo

(；・∀・)ﾊｯ?
Bebpo said:
The 3rd

You know, it's nice that the game tells me "This is the point of no return, do all the doors now" but maybe they should have told me the last dungeon requires you to split into 4 teams and use EVERYONE.

I had a great team, all equipped and ready for a last dungeon and final boss and I'd watched all the doors so I went for it. But I had a million sepith that I could have used to make a ton of quartz for all 12 party members and bought the best equip for everyone no problem and unlocked everyone's slots. Instead I'm winging the final dungeon with what I've got. Luckily the dungeon seems pretty easy so far, but it's still annoying.

I guess the game figures that you'll constantly be upgrading all 12 members or something. I would just swap all the equip/quartz off a member when I switched him/her out and onto the new one so I basically had 4 sets of perfect equip/quartz and that's it.

I gotta say that micro-managing all the party members is the worst part of The 3rd. That and the Orphan door :p
Click to expand...
That part made me seriously hate 3rd, since I usually roll with just one group of characters in rpgs. :/

Same goes for some of the door, which might be the reason I didn't enjoy 3rd all that much.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
The 3rd

Aaaaand...done with the Sky trilogy.
Yep, that was a lot of boss battling heh; like 90 minutes of final boss fight. Fun dungeon and fights though. Equipping everyone was kind of annoying, but the enemies were easy and it was fun getting to use everyone at end-game levels. Good game. Was a fun dungeon crawler with a good battle system and good boss battles. The dungeons kind of sucked but since you skip usually skip encounters they were fine. A little easy from the midway point on when your party gets super powerful, but still fun.

Story-wise there were basically two stories that were the meat of the game: 1) Kevin's personal tale & 2) Chloe story with Lector -> Oliver/GENERAL.DUDE/Chloe/Lector. Both those stories were great and #2 especially was a great prelude to the next games. The rest of the stories were pretty much just window dressing. Most were nice, seeing Richard in brown slacks and a tie was cool. Seeing Chloe confess to Joshua was interesting as I didn't see that coming at all in FC/SC and her door; totally though her first love was Lector Some of the doors were kind of boring like most of the report ones. But overall it was enjoyable.

I guess the only thing that was kind of a letdown was the tie-in stuff with Ouroboros in the 2nd to last door. A big SEELE circle of the higher ups going "hmm hmmm hmm Plan 1 of 7 has ended, now let's start plan 2!" was probably the least interesting reveal as it was pretty much as expected. Ouroboros just seems standard anime/game cliche group at this point. Hopefully they get more interesting. The Oliver/Muller door with Oliver and the General having tea was the real big tie-in setups. At this point I'm way more interested in the Suikoden political story going on between all the countries and the cast than the Xenosaga ancient goddess relics; gotta collect 'em all. Speaking of which after all 3 games, that's pretty much what I think Kiseki feels like, Suikoden x Xenogears/Saga with well written believable characters.

Looking forward to Zero/Ao now for sure. Game did enough to move the stage to Crossbell and I look forward to seeing everything go down there next year.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Kiseki series IS a standard/cliche animu game.

Those who deny it are people who can't accept the fact that they actually liked a cliche'd animu game.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
It's deravitive but with well written characters, that's my take on it after three games. And in a genre that's filled with horribly written characters that actually does make it stand out quite a bit and a pleasure to read/listen to.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Well. tropes are tools so it's be expected. It's about fleshing those out and taking them in different directions and all that, especially when it comes to villains, lol.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
They could do without the token joke character though
Gilbert
; just like MGS's Johnny, it gets old...
 
A

Arthea

Member
subscribed, one of my favourite series, can't wait to finally play Trails SC, somewhat scared of spoilers, as probably many people already played SC here, in japanese.
 
A

Aeana

Member
Bebpo said:
The 3rd

Aaaaand...done with the Sky trilogy.
Yep, that was a lot of boss battling heh; like 90 minutes of final boss fight. Fun dungeon and fights though. Equipping everyone was kind of annoying, but the enemies were easy and it was fun getting to use everyone at end-game levels. Good game. Was a fun dungeon crawler with a good battle system and good boss battles. The dungeons kind of sucked but since you skip usually skip encounters they were fine. A little easy from the midway point on when your party gets super powerful, but still fun.

Story-wise there were basically two stories that were the meat of the game: 1) Kevin's personal tale & 2) Chloe story with Lector -> Oliver/GENERAL.DUDE/Chloe/Lector. Both those stories were great and #2 especially was a great prelude to the next games. The rest of the stories were pretty much just window dressing. Most were nice, seeing Richard in brown slacks and a tie was cool. Seeing Chloe confess to Joshua was interesting as I didn't see that coming at all in FC/SC and her door; totally though her first love was Lector Some of the doors were kind of boring like most of the report ones. But overall it was enjoyable.

I guess the only thing that was kind of a letdown was the tie-in stuff with Ouroboros in the 2nd to last door. A big SEELE circle of the higher ups going "hmm hmmm hmm Plan 1 of 7 has ended, now let's start plan 2!" was probably the least interesting reveal as it was pretty much as expected. Ouroboros just seems standard anime/game cliche group at this point. Hopefully they get more interesting. The Oliver/Muller door with Oliver and the General having tea was the real big tie-in setups. At this point I'm way more interested in the Suikoden political story going on between all the countries and the cast than the Xenosaga ancient goddess relics; gotta collect 'em all. Speaking of which after all 3 games, that's pretty much what I think Kiseki feels like, Suikoden x Xenogears/Saga with well written believable characters.

Looking forward to Zero/Ao now for sure. Game did enough to move the stage to Crossbell and I look forward to seeing everything go down there next year.
Click to expand...

Which version of 3rd did you play, again? It's lame that Renne's story is cut in all but the PC version. :(

Another of my favorite stories is the one about Agate and the ravens.
 
F

Fhoenix

Member
I had 300 battles at the start of last chapter. So to get to 400 I did the abyss several times/leveling up characters. It's a couple of hours of grinding, yes, but considering you will use all the charters in the last dungeon, it's not an unnecessary grinding/100 battles. I actually liked the last dungeon, as doing it with several groups of characters concurrently gives the dungeon a truly epic feel (that and the bmg in the last dungeon is epic too).

For Pom the Tempest you really need the ultimate weapon + 2 tiger hearts + good s-craft on a turn with critical bonus. Enemy defense in general is pretty high in this game, but once you have enough attack to overcome it even 100-200 extra attack can mean the difference between only slightly scratching and one-hit killing enemies.
Drop chance? What do Grimoires drop exactly? I never really farmed any items in the game.

I disagree about the SEELE council in the end. The whole of Sora was one operation run by one guy, this is the first time we see other Apostles and the leader of Ouroboros. You don't get many details, but just seeing the differences in opinions between the council members gives you quite a lot of insight into organization and how it's run. With that in mind, the leader looks like a pretty strange person. From his reaction to all the deaths I am not sure if the game was trying to show him as a character with genuinely good intentions or as a hypocrite. He employs people like the Professor and the Clown to carry the operation and then he grieves that so many people died. Duh.
Lector/Cloe story on the other hand was pretty boring for me. Nothing really happened. Yes, Lector is probably going to be important later, so maybe it's a necessary tie-in, but at that point in the game there is not much reason to care for him. But I agree that local politics is much more interesting than the ancient artifacts meta-plot.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Aeana said:
Which version of 3rd did you play, again? It's lame that Renne's story is cut in all but the PC version. :(

Another of my favorite stories is the one about Agate and the ravens.
Click to expand...

PS3 version. I thought it was only cut in the PSP version? If you're talking about the final door it felt complete unless I missed something.
 
A

Aeana

Member
Bebpo said:
PS3 version. I thought it was only cut in the PSP version? If you're talking about the final door it felt complete unless I missed something.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, the door is the same on PSP and PS3. It's much more graphic on PC.

Check these out, you can let me know if they're the same as what you saw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeEnICPT8R4&spfreload=10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUjNdLeAbgc&spfreload=10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K__dESkGc1c&spfreload=10
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Does this series make a good transition to 3D? I'm playing TiTS and I'm loving the sprites mixed in with the 3D background as I feel tat it adds a lot of charm to the game. I'm worried that the look and feel doesn't transition well in a full 3D setting.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Fhoenix said:
For Pom the Tempest you really need the ultimate weapon + 2 tiger hearts + good s-craft on a turn with critical bonus. Enemy defense in general is pretty high in this game, but once you have enough attack to overcome it even 100-200 extra attack can mean the difference between only slightly scratching and one-hit killing enemies.
Drop chance? What do Grimoires drop exactly? I never really farmed any items in the game.
Click to expand...

Grimoire themselves, IIRC none.
Doppels
? Weapons+1/+2 or equivalent.

+2 are usually far greater than other options, but are generally weaker than Zemyla/Zemuria Stone weapons.

It's not worth your time to farm them unless you're on... Nightmare difficulty + first run (
or didn't inherit anything from previous playthrough
).

P.S. As I have stated, I have farmed 10 hours (or more) on
Doppels
. And guess what? There's one
Doppel
I have yet to fight. Hahaha.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Bebpo said:
Oh wow, you're right. Censored because the content would up the age rating on the PSP/PS3 version?
Click to expand...

Yeah, more or less. It probably would have been upgraded as a result. It still insinuates something like this happens but it's not clearly stated in the PSP and PS3 versions.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Sora no Kiseki Spoilers

Have they ever explicitly mentioned what generation of senjutsu Orbment are the ones in Sora no Kiseki?

Started playing Zero and they gave out the new 5th generation Orbments, which makes the Sora ones probably 4th and/or 3rd.

There would at least be 3 known models in the entirety of Sora.
FC Orbments - that thing you start out with. Only has 6 slots.
ローランス's Orbment - product(?) of 13th Factory/博士, may or may not be the same as the upgraded Orbments introduced in SC. Or possibly prototypes of those.
SC new Orbment - Given to Estelle and Anelace by Kurz. Allowed for one more Quartz and stronger arts.
Russel Customized Orbment - Customized from the new models at start of SC. Can use ancient Liber Quartz.

Edit:

Some Zero early game spoilers:

Lloyd should go to Liberl. Where 12 year-old girls are allowed to carry Orbal Cannons and Orbal Machineguns. Oh, sometimes, their own personal Satellite Beam system.
 
R

redhairedking

Junior Member
So Falcom has been teasing a new Evolution game on twitter and it looks like it could be Sora based on the image posted with the tweet
 
C

clay_ghost

Member
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Zero Evolution Ch1:

Estelle/Yoshua entry scene. dat BGM. The sound of Liberl.

I am so effing happy that they actually mentioned Tio (Estelle's childhood friend who's working in the farm). If I am not mistaken, Lloyd is the fisher guy who had a niece at Jenis. Was also the witness to the "black outfit" guys.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Yup, the voice acting can be retarded at times in Zero Evolution. It's like every other "no-face" character has a bad acting (which is apparently from them putting JDK Band who has no VA experience into minor roles).

But what gets to my nerves is the fact that noone seemed to bother to goddamn effing normalize the voices! Not only does this amplify the bad acting, but it feels like some minor characters are suddenly talking loudly right into my face. It's like they adjusted the voices of those with major roles, but completely forgot about minor characters.

P.S. The "arranged BGMs" used in Evolution are those Super Arrange version. So if you wanna see what to expect on Sora FC Evolution, it's probably the Sora OST Super Arrange version (assuming it exists).

P.P.S. I can't see the reason why Kadokawa can't offer the original BGM even as a paid DLC. Gust has one of their game turn from 2.8gb size into a humonguous 6gb just for the additional BGM (and it was free, IIRC!).

I mean, I'd have no qualms on Sora Evolution, but that's because I already played the original ones. I wish I could do the same with Zero.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
I guess there's still no indication that Falcom is going to fix up and put out their own PC version of Ao is there? I could always get a vita tv and play it that way, but honestly I think I'd prefer playing in higher resolution with the original music and stuff.

I hear a lot of iffy things about the evolution versions.
 
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