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[nincompoop]

That image doesn't mean shit, though. One samurai in that screenshot is probably a like dozen polygons with a 32x32 texture if you zoomed up close enough.

Well if the PS3 and 360 are 100x as powerful as PS2 they should be able to do 65k enemies with 1200 polygons and 320x320 textures at 60 fps, no?

 

[-viper-]

I don't really care what I get.

60FPS is smooth, but 30FPS feels more cinematic.

If I had a choice, over 60FPS and medium GFX or 30FPS and high GFX, it would always be the latter.

 

[Feindflug]

So MGS4 defies the laws of physics now? Interesting.

What is this shit about "laws of physics"? I'm just saying what I saw - I don't know what kind of trick Kojima Productions did with the upscaling and the overall image of the game but it looks amazing on my set and definitely better than most 1280*720 games IQ-wise.

I guess it depends on the game, for example Ratchet & Clank: ToD looks amazing but Uncharted even though it's looks stunning the IQ is not the best.

 

[Mamesj]

I prefer 60fps and love it when I turn on an old game to find out it runs at 60. Like Metroid Prime 2, which I just started. Some of the best last-gen graphics and 60fps-- Retro really pulled off something special with it.

The lack of 60fps games this gen is saddening. Even the one team I thought I could rely on for smooth 60fps goodness, Team Ninja, has screwed up the frame rates in their last two games-- DoAX2 runs at 30fps and Ninja Gaiden 2 has a very unstable 60fps. Of course, the former game sucks and the latter disappointed me, so it's not a huge loss.


ALL THAT SAID-- the biggest problem isn't a lack of 60fps games this gen. I don't mind a super smooth 30fps. it's the deluge of games that run at an unstable 30fps or less. with frame tearing. and jaggy shadows. and no AA.

 

[rezuth]

Who cares if a game is running 60fps or not? What matters is how the game plays, not what framerate the game plays at. When you go see a movie in the theaters, do you bitch because it's not 60fps? No, and you'd probably be laughed out of the theater for such a complaint.

Would you really rather see developers cut or scale back gameplay elements just to maintain 60fps? You'd have to be insane to consider 60fps a benefit over better gameplay. An Empty Room with two enemies at 60fps is not better than a fully detailed room with six enemies at 30fps.

Just make sure the framerate stays locked at a specific number and everything should be fine.

Sure but I'll rather have six detailed enemies at 60fps, when did we stop asking for more?

 

[Wizman23]

Its that time a month again for the PC elite to come out of the woodwork and beat their chests?

I can't tell 30 from 60 either, and could care less

 

[Like the hat?]

60fps gives me motion sickness

 

[Masklinn]

Why aren't there more games available that run at 60 frames per second? I mean.. seriously.

Because HD gaming was launched a generation too early, the consoles aren't able to handle 60FPS@1080p, unless you spend inordinate amounts of time micro-optimizing them maybe.

So inconsistent framerate/sub 60FPS is a direct result of all the HD cheering.

How about 65535 enemies at 60 fps?

I'm pretty sure the 360 and PS3 are more powerful than PS2, so they should be able to handle it.

You're kind-of discounting the resolution here. HD means you have to push nearly 7 times the number of pixels you do in SD, and that's without factoring in all the other stuff that has to be included to compare with other games of the generation (lightning, shaders, more detailed models, detailed textures instead of blurry mess, ...)

 

[rezuth]

Because HD gaming was launched a generation too early, the consoles aren't able to handle 60FPS@1080p, unless you spend inordinate amounts of time micro-optimizing them maybe.

So inconsistent framerate/sub 60FPS is a direct result of all the HD cheering.

You're kind-of discounting the resolution here. HD means you have to push nearly 7 times the number of pixels you do in SD, and that's without factoring in all the other stuff that has to be included to compare with other games of the generation (lightning, shaders, more detailed models, detailed textures instead of blurry mess, ...)[/QUOTE]
I would accept that if not for the fact consoles are more than 7 times as powerful as the last generation.

 

[Dre]

Well I can't tell the difference either (I haven't tried WipEout HD in splitscreen though) and to be honest I'm kinda glad about it, saves me alot of nerves, since I don't have to rant about it.

Sub 30fps like Algonquin Island in GTA IV on the other hand is rather annoying.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I can't tell 30 from 60 either

I honestly can't see why people say this and expect anyone to believe them. The difference is obvious.

Of course, the statement is always followed by some variant of "I don't care", which more often than not means you really, really care.

 

[AppleBlade]

Yeah, I wish devs said from the onset that the game will run at 60 FPS, V-Sync on, and at least on 720p (Though I wish more games supported 1080p). Then they can design the game with those barriers in mind. Honestly even with those barriers we can still way more polygons and way more detailed textures then last gen so I don't know why people think you need to squeeze out even more performance by making the game look choppy or not quite HD.

 

[Proc]

I think its because a lot of these games designed for the 360 are also designed with the PC market in mind. For the price tag that a 360 costs you, you get some decent results.

If you want the higher settings, the pc route is the way to go.

I just wish they'd actually make their way to pc quicker. There's no reason why microsoft shouldn't be selling Halo 3 and GoW2 for xp/vista/windows 7. I'd love to max out those engines.

 

[iam220]

I can't tell 30 from 60 either, and could care less

What's stopping you from caring less?

 

[ghst]

There's no reason why microsoft shouldn't be selling Halo 3 and GoW2 for xp/vista/windows 7. I'd love to max out those engines.

they still want you to buy a 360.

 

[Feindflug]

Last gen wasn't any better.

Why do people expect that with every new generation there will be more games at 60fps?

It was definitely better than this gen though especially for the PS2 - they were a lot of amazing looking titles that were also running at 60fps..some examples:

God Of War 1/2
Devil May Cry
GT3/4
ZOE2
Burnout 2/3/Revenge
Tekken 5
Onimusha 3/DoD
Jak & Daxter
Sly Cooper
Ratchet & Clank 1/2/3
Ace Combat 4/5
MGS2
SSX3
Tomb Raider: Legend (XBOX version)
Ninja Gaiden
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Jet Set Radio Future
Rallisport Challenge 2
Outrun 2
Metroid Prime 1/2
F-Zero GX

 

[Proc]

they still want you to buy a 360.

Yeah, I guess my perspective is limited since I own a gaming rig and the consoles.

I treated this gen of consoles as an interim between hardware upgrades. I grabbed a 360 since Oblivion would cost me too much at the time to run at a decent clip. I also grabbed a ps3 to justify my hdtv purchase lol. I really hate exclusivity.

 

[Mamesj]

God Of War 1/2

Doesn't even count because the framerate is so unstable. Great list otherwise.

 

[manueldelalas]

If they can keep 30 fps locked it is fine by me. Unless it is a fast racing game or a Sonic game.

But when a game runs at 60 fps it shows, and it is great.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Buy Pixel Junk Eden

 

[Proc]

I still don't think there is much to complain about with amount you are investing into the console. To play a game that looks as good as killzone 2 at 720p/30fps is pretty damn impressive for a ~$399 investment.

Developers are only going to lead by example so this trend will continue. The top selling 360/ps3 games of 2008 weren't running at 720p+ & 60fps. The console graphical expectations are firmly rooted at this point.

 

[RockmanWhore]

I wish more FPS would run at 60fps, there's a world of difference between CoD4 and most other shooter out there. Too bad I hate the modern setting and infinite respawn :'(

 

[Raistlin]

Then you need to visit an optician because your eyes are broken. I'm deadly serious, the difference is that striking.

Motion perception is actually a brain function.

 

[Neo C.]

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

It doesn't matter whether you are a graphic whore or a gameplay fanatic, both can tell the difference.

The graphic whore loves the smoothness of the graphics (especially in racing games and shooter), the gameplay fanatic loves the smooth feeling in controling the character/car/camera.

For the sake of the gameplay, I really wish more games would highly focus on having a stable 60fps.

 

[Raistlin]

More like the lack of any gen 60 FPS games. As long as we want game visuals fully maxed to the edge of a console's capabilities we'll never have a gen with many games running at 60 FPS.

There's always the PC though

Actually, PS2 has a shit load of 60fps titles.

 

[Neo C.]

So inconsistent framerate/sub 60FPS is a direct result of all the HD cheering.

I think this is pretty much GAF consensus, isn't it?

 

[traveler]

I realize that my position is a ridiculous one, but, honestly, I prefer 30FPS in everything that isn't a racer or fighter for some reason. It just looks unnatural to me. I dunno if it's that I'm so used to watching movies or if it's because my eyes are screwed, but I definitely prefer 30FPS.

 

[aries_71]

I'm probably alone, but I prefer framerate to high resolution.

For example, Tomb Raider Underwolrd for the 360 is sub-720p, but its really, really smooth. I love it because there are very few drops of framerate.

On the other hand, Tomb Raider Legen or Anniversary, are 720p, and it shows badly in the framerate.

Give me steady framerate inspite of resolution any day.

 

[civilstrife]

Like it or not, games going for a cinematic effect are far better suited to 30fps than 60, which makes them feel more "gamey".

Case in point: Bioshock

 

[Feindflug]

Doesn't even count because the framerate is so unstable. Great list otherwise.

Well you're right but at least it tried to maintain 60fps...well devs don't even aim for stable 30fps anymore and stable 30fps with motion blur should've been the standard this gen - The Darkness (360 version), Gears of War 1/2, Orange Box, Dead Rising & Lost Planet for example look silky smooth when compared to your typical 30fps game without motion blur, it really helps a lot.

 

[brunoa76]

Sub 30fps like Algonquin Island in GTA IV on the other hand is rather annoying.

Only Algonquin ?

I hope to play a GTA game with at least a constant 30 fps one day...

 

[Haunted]

One of the perks of PC gaming. Gives you more power over how you want to play the game.

I realize that my position is a ridiculous one, but, honestly, I prefer 30FPS in everything that isn't a racer or fighter for some reason. It just looks unnatural to me. I dunno if it's that I'm so used to watching movies or if it's because my eyes are screwed, but I definitely prefer 30FPS.

You are correct!



That is ridiculous and your eyes are screwed.

 

[Brandson]

I realize that my position is a ridiculous one, but, honestly, I prefer 30FPS in everything that isn't a racer or fighter for some reason. It just looks unnatural to me. I dunno if it's that I'm so used to watching movies or if it's because my eyes are screwed, but I definitely prefer 30FPS.

Not ridiculous at all. I was about to make virtually the same comment. 60fps is perfect for racing and fighting games. I prefer 30fps for everything else. 60fps also makes any mediocre animation look even worse.

 

[USD]

I wish more games had Bioshock's unlock framerate feature. Sure it introduced a shit ton of tearing (more like rending), but I'll take the higher framerate anyday.

This is why I think MGS2 has better visuals than MGS3, sure MGS3 has the better graphics, but MGS2's 60 FPS makes it delicious.

60 FPS > 30 FPS

Always.

I savored the cuts in MGS3's cutscenes that run at 60FPS. :lol If I had a magic 60FPS wand, MGS3 would be one of the first last-gen games I would use it on.

Like it or not, games going for a cinematic effect are far better suited to 30fps than 60, which makes them feel more "gamey".

Case in point: Bioshock

Naaaw.

 

[iam220]

Like it or not, games going for a cinematic effect are far better suited to 30fps than 60, which makes them feel more "gamey".

Case in point: Bioshock

Yup. Who wants "gamey" in their games? It would be even more cinematic if you had no control over your character.

 

[Neo C.]

It just looks unnatural to me. I dunno if it's that I'm so used to watching movies or if it's because my eyes are screwed, but I definitely prefer 30FPS.

How is this possible? Movies have motion blur, games usually haven't. I think it's placebo effect in your case.:lol

 

[Feindflug]

I'm probably alone, but I prefer framerate to high resolution.

For example, Tomb Raider Underwolrd for the 360 is sub-720p, but its really, really smooth. I love it because there are very few drops of framerate.

On the other hand, Tomb Raider Legen or Anniversary, are 720p, and it shows badly in the framerate.

Give me steady framerate inspite of resolution any day.

I don't know about Anniversary but Legend on 360 was also sub-HD - was running at 1024*600.

 

[DMeisterJ]

I really can't tell 30 FPS and 60 FPS games. I've played games and I can't really notice the difference. I can only notice when the frame-rate drops to low levels, but generally, IDK the difference.

But I really do care, and I'd like to know how I could notice the difference. I have wonderful eyesight so it can't be that.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Yep, MGS4 has some of the best IQ I've seen - the game looks absolutely amazing and crystal clear at 1080p on my Samsung LE40F86...Halo 3 on the other side still looks very impressive IMO but AA would've helped a lot the IQ.

Ninja Gaiden 2 & COD3/4/WaW also look very good considering they're sub-HD.

Back on topic though yes the lack of 60fps is disappointing this gen especially considering the horsepower of the PS360...it seems that the devs aren't even trying anymore with all this below-30fps crap we have to deal with on a lot of games this gen...today I saw for example a video from the PS3 version of FEAR 2 on Gamersyde and the frame-rate was below 20fps in the more crowded situations, hopefully this was an old demo because I won't buy the game if the frame -rate is in that condition in the final version.

MGS4's IQ is sub-par. The resolution just does not hold up. There is no getting around that. I played it on my Dad's 50-inch Samsung DLP for most of the way through it.

I've never played NG2, CoD4 or WaW on consoles for more than 10 minutes, but I'm sure I'd have the same complaint.

Sub-HD grates me like 30fps grates other people.

And yeah, I do think MGS4 is ugly. The game's colors are so dull. Like I said earlier, the dullness of the coloring with the sub-HD resolution makes the game look muddy. The visuals in general just strike me as ugly most of the time. There are some exceptions, like I said, but for the most part it just is not a pretty game.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

I really can't tell 30 FPS and 60 FPS games. I've played games and I can't really notice the difference. I can only notice when the frame-rate drops to low levels, but generally, IDK the difference.

But I really do care, and I'd like to know how I could notice the difference. I have wonderful eyesight so it can't be that.

Play a racing game and look at the track.

 

[Feindflug]

Not ridiculous at all. I was about to make virtually the same comment. 60fps is perfect for racing and fighting games. I prefer 30fps for everything else. 60fps also makes any mediocre animation look even worse.

Yeah but also makes a great animation look even better - take MGS2 and MGS3 for example, both games share the same animations for the main character but in MGS2 the animations look much much smoother.

 

[rollingstart]

Like it or not, games going for a cinematic effect are far better suited to 30fps than 60, which makes them feel more "gamey".

Case in point: Bioshock

Bioshock is 60 on PC; even on 360 if you turn off the frame rate limiting, it gets a boost past 30. Not only is it 60, but it is much better for it. It's a good thing that your example already devalues your statement. And I didn't even need to come up with a large counter argument or anything.

 

[M3d10n]

The beauty of PC gaming is that you get to choose how the game runs.

Whether you're a graphics whore or someone who accepts nothing less than 120FPS, the power is in your wallet, not the developer's.

Fixed

Bioshock is 60 on PC; even on 360 if you turn off the frame rate limiting, it gets a boost past 30. Not only is it 60, but it is much better for it.

Yes, it looks amazing at locked 60fps. Makes the parallax mapping effects really jump out. Too bad the physics seems locked at 30fps, so it kinda looks like stop-motion.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

So why is it only 30 or 60fps? Why not like 40 or 50?

 

[jett]

Wipeout is actually a better game at 30fps.

Clearly, clearly, you have NOT played Wipeout HD. Splitscreen runs at 30fps, and its not only borderline unplayable after tasting the sweetness of 60fps, it's also way, WAY uglier.

 

[BobsRevenge]

So why is it only 30 or 60fps? Why not like 40 or 50?

Refresh rates of your screen. If it is not 30 or 60 your screen will chop it up to fit into the refresh.

 

[Feindflug]

I really can't tell 30 FPS and 60 FPS games. I've played games and I can't really notice the difference. I can only notice when the frame-rate drops to low levels, but generally, IDK the difference.

But I really do care, and I'd like to know how I could notice the difference. I have wonderful eyesight so it can't be that.

Play COD4 for an hour and then play Gears or Halo 3...I'm pretty sure you will see the difference after that.

 

[M3d10n]

So why is it only 30 or 60fps? Why not like 40 or 50?

V-sync. Without it, you get random(min, max) framerate. To get sync'ed 40fps you need a 120Hz screen, and for 50fps you need 100Hz.

One thing I'd like to have on a videocard's control panel is a framerate limiter. It would be nice for making the experience more consistent when the rig isn't all up to date. But I guess GPU makers depend on the mixed emotions when players enter empty rooms or look down and their framerates shoot up for a moment.

 

[SilverLunar]

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

Me too.

 

[iam220]

So why is it only 30 or 60fps? Why not like 40 or 50?

*shrug* The higher the better (barring refresh rates), and yet there are people here who will try and argue that 30fps > 60fps. Doesn't surprise me though, I remember lurking gaf back when PC GTA4 screens were released and there were people arguing that blurriness > sharpness.