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[Joeku]

Burial at Sea was a terrible piece of DLC for Elizabeth and Fitzroy. Fitzroy gets turned from a smart if bloodthirsty revolutionary into a dumb patsy, and Elizabeth ends up invalidating the core themes of the first game to needlessly tie into the trials of BioShock protagonist Jack, who is basically barely an actual entity in his own game. If there's an example of where developers reacted to criticism and made things worse, it's got to be BaS.



Taking Infinite as being about current (or even past) U.S. race relations makes about as much sense as assuming the original BioShock had a lot to say about 1940s America. Columbia is a caricature of turn-of-the-century America's worst elements; the whole point of Columbia is that they thought the U.S. was being too lenient to those swarthy Chinese and seceded from the Union to go full-on Sky Fundamentalists. I think the big issue is people wanted Levine and Irrational to make a game they clearly weren't making (one that was specifically focused on historical or modern race relations in America, rather than merely using some of that as part of its setting), and at some point that's your own issue not the game's.

To the first: yeah, I'm with you, and that's why I called him cowardly.

To the second: I wasn't trying to relate Infinite to our modern reality. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. The poster I was quoting was suggesting that Fitzroy's revolution was economical (via reference, at least), but I feel the game was muddy enough in the delivery that it's nigh inseparable from what racial themes are absolutely present the game. The first time any combat happens is in the midst of the most cartoonishly racist stage show I've seen. Columbia is as realistically Big Bad Christian America as Rapture is Big Bad Capitalism (which is to say, a streeeeeeetch).

 

[Platy]

For people arguing for Last of Us .... Resident Evil 4 did the same thing

 

[Aureon]

As usual, the general point is right, but the specific examples are very much impeachable.
Ellie has far, far more agency than the simple age split of the characters would imply, and likewise far, far more agency than the usual kid sidekick.

 

[Gattsu25]

As usual, the general point is right, but the specific examples are very much impeachable.
Ellie has far, far more agency than the simple age split of the characters would imply, and likewise far, far more agency than the usual kid sidekick.

...she points out Ellie's agency in the video... Ellie is framed as much better than most (and really, only listing a single minor quibble).

 

[capylikesgames]

I'm not really a fan of Anita, but wooow, the video starts off fantastic. I love her for calling out Infinite and its awful take on racism in America. The game has its good points, but I feel it gets way too much praise, particularly in the writing department.

 

[Dryk]

I'd love to know what she thinks about the final boss fight in Shovel Knight (which admittedly follows an entire game where the woman is in the fridge)

I think this is always an issue of emergence stuff.

Making a female character fragile is okay. Having a trend of female characters that are fragile instead becomes a trope.

Individual cases are always legitimate. It's fiction and it has freedom of expression to tell a specific story. But then you start to examine a number of cases, and start tracing a pattern that repeats over and over, and that definitely exposes a bias.

So one should always be wary of confusing the two levels, but they ultimately get confused a lot.

They get confused because you kind of have to use examples even if it's incorrect. As soon as you start (rightfully) criticising the aggregate all of the individual legitimate cases will think "Well clearly I'm part of the 50% that is okay and the others should have done it differently"

 

[Shaanyboi]

Sad to hear this series has come to an end. Some great videos over the years.

 

[TMWNN35]

Caroline Becker

I played this just the other day, can I just say I was pretty annoyed she smashed the 2 giant robots but left me to deal with the fucking robot dog lol.

 

[Messofanego]

I played this just the other day, can I just say I was pretty annoyed she smashed the 2 giant robots but left me to deal with the fucking robot dog lol.

Haha that was not a fun fight in such a cramped space.

 

[Nuu]

As the game continues to tell a garbage story as that oppressed people are as bad as their oppressors, and that the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Subscribed.

Do not agree that Bioshock is intentionally suggesting that "oppressed people are as bad as their oppressors and that the truth is always somewhere in the middle" at all!

The narrative of Bioshock instead is instead teaching a much more valid lesson, which is "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.".

The problem with Bioshock Infinite is that it does it the most idiotic and sloppy way imaginable. The game didn't build up much to that message. Which is ridiculous given the amount of scripted moments were in the game.

 

[Earthpainting]

Sad to hear that this is the final episode. I'm glad she covered the praise dispensary angle, as it's often overlooked. I know people like Alyx Vance, but she's certainly one of the worst offenders of this, and came across as pretty patronising.

One bit of criticism to the video though: ICO is pronounced "ee-ko" and not "eye-ko". Irrelevant to the subject at hand, but it's repeated enough times throughout the video that I thought it was worth pointing out.

I'd love to know what she thinks about the final boss fight in Shovel Knight (which admittedly follows an entire game where the woman is in the fridge)

I actually really like how Shovel Knight did things. For those who don't know,

Spoiler

the final battle of the base game has you play co-op with an AI partner. She is a pretty utilitarian AI character, but their dynamic is set up in very co-operative ways. She's going to tank the damage for you, taking up the role of the defender, and boost you up when it's safe, so you can come in with the DPS. Her role is cemented in the dialogue as well with her taking charge and tells Shovel Knight to stay close to her. Very fitting for the "shield" knight, and a rather atypical role for female characters in games.

I also liked how throughout most of the game, Shovel Knight dreams of saving Shield Knight, but in their final moment, it is her who saves him. The game evokes the damsel in distress narrative through Shovel Knight's dreams, which fall in line with the retro feel of NES-era stories, but manage to subvert them with the twist of Shield Knight actually being the villain for most of the game. There's hints of 'woman in the fridge' here and there, but I thought it was a good way to use both Shield Knight's disappearance and keep her dignity and prowess intact. She's portrayed as highly competent before, during, and after the Remnant of Fate possesses her, and could be one of the reasons she was chosen over the other two candidates who were present at the time.

It's all super cute and well done, which is what Shovel Knight is in general.

 

[Messofanego]

One bit of criticism to the video though: ICO is pronounced "ee-ko" and not "eye-ko". Irrelevant to the subject at hand, but it's repeated enough times throughout the video that I thought it was worth pointing out.

Now I'm going to start pronouncing it as "ick-o".

 

[eyeball_kid]

Alex Vance from HL2 and the Uncharted/Last of Us games do it right I think.

Alyx from HL2 is the prototypical Lady Sidekick. She's there to mildly flirt with the player, look sexy, and help out on occasion but not actually do anything meaningful within the narrative. And, (spoiler for ending of HL2 Episode 2)

Spoiler

at the end of Ep. 2 when Alyx is kidnapped, she was obviously being set up by Valve to be a damsel in distress

.

 

[Messofanego]

At the time we were just so happy that Alyx wasn't sexualised, we forgot there were still other regressive tropes

 

[Shredderi]

At the time we were just so happy that Alyx wasn't sexualised, we forgot there were still other regressive tropes

Baby steps

 

[Hux1ey]

At the time we were just so happy that Alyx wasn't sexualised, we forgot there were still other regressive tropes

We didn't forget, no one really cared about this stuff back then.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Curious what the subversive titles are. My first thought was Portal 2, but then it struck me that I wasn't sure if it didn't count because Chell is female, or if it's generally taken as the player placing themselves in the role.

When my nephew went to kindergarten and started to distinguish which things to do are for boys and girls and what colours are for each... that is where sexism actually starts IMHO... very early.

 

[Aarglefarg]

I really like that this video covered The Last Guardian, since a few points throughout the video made me wonder what she thought of the Trico-boy relationship.

 

[Maligna]

Can she actually die at all? She was definitely a nice NPC in that she didn't get in the way, didn't get stuck on anything that I recall, and worked as a pretty nice reprieve from running around creepy areas alone.

Pretty sure Sheriff Sarah Breaker is an invincible killing machine.

 

[MasterOfPastures]

Spoiler

at the end of Ep. 2 when Alyx is kidnapped, she was obviously being set up by Valve to be a damsel in distress

.

No she was not. Re-watch the ending.
Her only fault as a character is to be an occasional gatekeeper, and positive reinforcers of the player's ego.

 

[Murkas]

Fucking hell 5 years already?

 

[llien]

Alyx from HL2 is the prototypical Lady Sidekick. She's there to mildly flirt with the player, look sexy, and help out on occasion but not actually do anything meaningful within the narrative.

I've watched developer commentary about it, (it's been ages ago, can't find it now, don't even remember if it was youtube or in game commentary)

HL2 devs basically stated that when she was active, pushing for action, players ended up referring to her as an annoying character, which was contrary to the dev intent, they wanted positive link between her and the player, so they've removed this aspect.

 

[AuthenticM]

Resident Evil 5 was good about this. Sheva did not feel like a burden. She could help herself and helped Chris when he was in a bind. They felt like equals.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I've watched developer commentary about it, (it's been ages ago, can't find it now, don't even remember if it was youtube or in game commentary)

HL2 devs basically stated that when she was active, pushing for action, players ended up referring to her as an annoying character, which was contrary to the dev intent, they wanted positive link between her and the player, so they've removed this aspect.

lol so their solution was remove any of her active agency. Real nice.

 

[John Kowalski]

I've watched developer commentary about it, (it's been ages ago, can't find it now, don't even remember if it was youtube or in game commentary)

HL2 devs basically stated that when she was active, pushing for action, players ended up referring to her as an annoying character, which was contrary to the dev intent, they wanted positive link between her and the player, so they've removed this aspect.

That really highlights the problem doesn't it.

 

[llien]

That really highlights the problem doesn't it.

You think people would be ok with the character telling them what to do, if it had different gender?

 

[Triggerhappytel]

The video starts with Bioshock Infinite being destroyed.

She got a new subscriber

Lol yeah, the same thing jumped out to me as well. The plot to Infinite is mostly nonsense.

 

[Flipyap]

I've watched developer commentary about it, (it's been ages ago, can't find it now, don't even remember if it was youtube or in game commentary)

HL2 devs basically stated that when she was active, pushing for action, players ended up referring to her as an annoying character, which was contrary to the dev intent, they wanted positive link between her and the player, so they've removed this aspect.

It was Episode One's in-game commentary:

“[Matt T. Wood] To convey a sense of urgency, we originally designed Alyx to nag the player pretty frequently. She’d say things like ‘Hurry up!’ and ‘Keep moving!’ Whether or not this created a sense of urgency is debatable. But after about three minutes of this, the one thing it definitely did was make the player hate Alyx. This was one of the observations that eventually led us to switch Alyx from generally leading players to almost always following. Through playtesting we discovered that players much preferred to set the pace themselves and that they especially disliked virtually any hint of bossiness from Alyx.”

 

[Zocano]

You think people would be ok with the character telling them what to do, if it had different gender?

I think it would definitely garner a less intense reaction. I mean people remember Cpt. Price and Gaz and Ghost and shit from Call of Duty and think positively of them and they told you to do shit all the time along with opening all the doors for you (basically being the progression makers).

 

[John Kowalski]

You think people would be ok with the character telling them what to do, if it had different gender?

Yes.

 

[Santerestil]

Spoiler

at the end of Ep. 2 when Alyx is kidnapped, she was obviously being set up by Valve to be a damsel in distress

.

No, that happens in the last part of the original Half Life 2.

Spoiler

However, her last dialogue to Gordon, when you take the lift to kill Bren, is probably her most damsely (and cringely...) moment.

 

[SomTervo]

How is Ellie a 'damsel in distress' example just because she needs help getting across deep water? She's 14 and can't swim because no one has taken the time to teach her that in a "zombie apocalypse". Joel is basically a dad to her so helping her isn't really a sexism issue.

Yeah there's always at least one contrived example in a TvW video, but it's worth it for the greater message and otherwise decent analysis.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

How is Ellie a 'damsel in distress' example just because she needs help getting across deep water? She's 14 and can't swim because no one has taken the time to teach her that in a "zombie apocalypse". Joel is basically a dad to her so helping her isn't really a sexism issue.

Yeah, I didn't agree with this example at all. Ellie is one of the better women in videogames and proves herself to be quite capable multiple times over. Her not being able to swim is pretty logical given the game world.

 

[llien]

It was Episode One's in-game commentary:

“[Matt T. Wood] To convey a sense of urgency, we originally designed Alyx to nag the player pretty frequently. She’d say things like ‘Hurry up!’ and ‘Keep moving!’ Whether or not this created a sense of urgency is debatable. But after about three minutes of this, the one thing it definitely did was make the player hate Alyx. This was one of the observations that eventually led us to switch Alyx from generally leading players to almost always following. Through playtesting we discovered that players much preferred to set the pace themselves and that they especially disliked virtually any hint of bossiness from Alyx.”

Yes, that's the one I was referring to.

Yes.

I don't think so, but perhaps it's my in group bias (or your in group bias) playing role. =)
Gender Differences in Automatic In-Group Bias

I think it would definitely garner a less intense reaction. I mean people remember Cpt. Price and Gaz and Ghost and shit from Call of Duty and think positively of them and they told you to do shit all the time along with opening all the doors for you (basically being the progression makers).

Didn't play it (I"m mostly RTSing/point n clicking). The closest I could recall is Kratos in GoW4 preview, although I wouldn't call him likable.

Perhaps the attempt to create urgency worsened reactions in HL2.

 

[MrBadger]

That's a real shame to hear she's ending the series. As much as people would love to deny it, these videos have made a difference, and they have made more conversations about diversity happen over the last few years. There's definitely been a decline in the more obvious tropes like the Damsel in Distress, in western games at least.

Yeah there's always at least one contrived example in a TvW video, but it's worth it for the greater message and otherwise decent analysis.

I look forward to seeing this one poor example brought up again and again, as if it somehow invalidates the entire point she was making. Like the 'killing strippers in Hitman' thing.

 

[Meffer]

Enslaved anyone? Great game. The Horizon before Horizon.

Oh no that game was awful.

 

[I'm Spartacus]

Just read the Eurogamer article about this and Anita not making the Trope videos any more. The comments section is a cesspool riddled with the stench and spectre of gamergaters.

 

[Messofanego]

Just read the Eurogamer article about this and Anita not making the Trope videos any more. The comments section is a cesspool riddled with the stench and spectre of gamergaters.

When gamergators can't comment on the youtube, they got to go somewhere to spew their bile. They can't just ignore her content, they're fully obsessed with her.

 

[Auctopus]

We didn't forget, no one really cared about this stuff back then.

I'm sure some women did.

 

[ebullientprism]

Gatekeeping, protecting sidekicks etc has always bothered me more mechanically than it does morally. Probably because I genuinely almost never care about video game characters, writing or storytelling. To the point where I usually skip cutscenes in 98% of the games I play.

Having said that, regardless of whether you agree with the specific examples or not, I dont think it is unfair to say that women do get a disproportionately larger amount of those those roles in video games than men do.

 

[StarskySilverz]

I'm interested in her videos and have watched her whole series but when she brought up that when you 'give characters commands they obey without question' (paraphrasing) as a negative because they aren't realistic to real human relationship. I think she's kind of missing the point that these are video games and the player NEEDS to feel like their in control. The Last Guardian got blasted for Trico not doing what you want him to and he wastes a lot of time. I like a lot of her arguements but I get the feeling she doesn't play many games herself, and doing so would've helped this series a lot.

 

[hodgy100]

I'm interested in her videos and have watched her whole series but when she brought up that when you 'give characters commands they obey without question' (paraphrasing) as a negative because they aren't realistic to real human relationship. I think she's kind of missing the point that these are video games and the player NEEDS to feel like their in control. The Last Guardian got blasted for Trico not doing what you want him to and he wastes a lot of time. I like a lot of her arguements but I get the feeling she doesn't play many games herself, and doing so would've helped this series a lot.

the last guardian also gets lauded for Trico feeling like a realistic creature rather than a game AI.

theres room for both

and Anita is an avid gamer

 

[Vice]

I'm interested in her videos and have watched her whole series but when she brought up that when you 'give characters commands they obey without question' (paraphrasing) as a negative because they aren't realistic to real human relationship. I think she's kind of missing the point that these are video games and the player NEEDS to feel like their in control. The Last Guardian got blasted for Trico not doing what you want him to and he wastes a lot of time. I like a lot of her arguements but I get the feeling she doesn't play many games herself, and doing so would've helped this series a lot.

She uses TLG as an example of partner AI she would like to see in other series. And, gives examples of partner AInthat justblisten but are depicted as more of an equal.

 

[StarskySilverz]

She uses TLG as an example of partner AI she would like to see in other series. And, gives examples of partner AInthat justblisten but are depicted as more of an equal.

I'm playing the game right now and Trico does remind me of my own dog but at the same time, I don't long for more AI that question my button prompts or don't listen to me. If that continues I hope it's a small minority of games because games don't have to mimic real life, hence why they are games. I don't think that AI obey commands is a negative

 

[DemWalls]

No Witcher, at all? That's unexpected. I thought there couldn't be a TvW video without at least a little mention :lol:

Especially since this time, given how Triss is handled in TW2, the example may actually have been legitimate.

 

[Septimius]

I take issue with the way Anita handles many of the examples much in the way media handles video games and violence and video games and sex. They have this out of context relation to specific parts of a game, and she is often calling games sexist for isolated details. It's invalidating the character Tifa is because she has big boobs. It's saying there's something wrong with Ellie in The Last of Us because Ellie can't swim, which really is a gameplay mechanic written to mask loading. It may feel like a cheap take for Naughty Dog, but it's thematic. TLOU has gotten critique for its ladder games and find the plank "puzzles", so the ultimate issue I take here is that these types of examples are taken out of context and stacked on top of each other to make a sort of "look at the problems we're facing". I admire her work, and I am happy she is pushing the envelope to show how many games do things right. But Ellie ends up in this list much like those strippers from Hitman that she says "players are meant to take pleasure in this perverse use of these scantily clad women", when it is literally the exact same game mechanic that applies to every single person in the entire game, and these women are included to show the oppression the target puts these women under.

I am in no way or form saying she is a scam or that what she does isn't needed. I am just annoyed at the way she uses quantity over quality in every one of her videos. I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater when you handle examples in that way. It's been my consistent criticism of these videos after every one.

 

[John Rabbit]

Enslaved anyone? Great game. The Horizon before Horizon.

Huh? Aloy is much more fleshed-out and capable character than Trip.

 

[Hux1ey]

I'm sure some women did.

I think Alyx was praised by pretty much everyone at the time, and the female gamers I know adore her character. But you never know.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I take issue with the way Anita handles many of the examples much in the way media handles video games and violence and video games and sex. They have this out of context relation to specific parts of a game, and she is often calling games sexist for isolated details. It's invalidating the character Tifa is because she has big boobs. It's saying there's something wrong with Ellie in The Last of Us because Ellie can't swim, which really is a gameplay mechanic written to mask loading. It may feel like a cheap take for Naughty Dog, but it's thematic. TLOU has gotten critique for its ladder games and find the plank "puzzles", so the ultimate issue I take here is that these types of examples are taken out of context and stacked on top of each other to make a sort of "look at the problems we're facing". I admire her work, and I am happy she is pushing the envelope to show how many games do things right. But Ellie ends up in this list much like those strippers from Hitman that she says "players are meant to take pleasure in this perverse use of these scantily clad women", when it is literally the exact same game mechanic that applies to every single person in the entire game, and these women are included to show the oppression the target puts these women under.

I am in no way or form saying she is a scam or that what she does isn't needed. I am just annoyed at the way she uses quantity over quality in every one of her videos. I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater when you handle examples in that way. It's been my consistent criticism of these videos after every one.

She isn't actually calling games sexist, she is outlining Tropes. Tropes are Tropes whether isolated or in context.

If I create a game where the villain has a change of heart and sacrifices herself at the end of the game, that's still a trope, regardless of how well I justified it.

 

[dawgparty]

Really liked this one as I am one of those weirdos who really enjoys having a capable AI-controlled companion. I think she hits the nail on the head pretty well - I honestly enjoy Alyx, Ashley, and Elizabeth as characters I just would have Loved for them to offer a bit more gameplay-wise. Any sort of battle capability would have made a big difference.