But you have to cuple VR with motion gaming, and thing just don't fit perfectly. You expect realism by being in this VR world, but what you get is limitations in motion and what you can do.
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The London Heist PS4 Morpheus VR demo (video)
- Thread starter Man
- Start date
But you have to cuple VR with motion gaming, and thing just don't fit perfectly. You expect realism by being in this VR world, but what you get is limitations in motion and what you can do.
Yes they do.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Yes, its a user input like turning your head, one more "sensor" that gives data of positioning. The same way sony is managing position tracking with a light source. That has to be captured, processed and calculated. I really don't think that, from a technical standpoint, much would speak against eye tracking, wich is at its core the same as head tracking, no?
Eyetracking is not the same as head tracking technology, no. Eye tracking is done purely through visual tracking, headtracking is accomplished by sensor fusion using IMUs that poll at 1000 hz. And they still struggle to reach 2 ms latency.
Eyetracking is not done in the same pass as headtracking, it would be a late-in-pipeline transformation. It is purely padding to the latency.
These latest incarnations all are able to track motion perfectly 1:1 with sub-millimeter accuracy. As long as you stay within tracking bounds it's good. Really really good. So good, it just feels natural.
Using motion controls on a flat TV screen is annoying because there is an inherent disconnect. You are puppeting actions projected on a flat screen, so you consciously have to translate how your movement will actually behave in the game world, and being precise is near impossible. In VR - the virtual hand is exactly where your hand actually is. There is no disconnect.
FullMetaltech
Member
The tracking seems to be better with each time they demo it. Looks really great so far and im hoping they price it right.
But how do you know the gimmick won't wear off when it's not even released yet?
Ive had vr headsets for like 2 years now. I do medical research using them.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
The tech for 2000Hz eye tracking exists today.
And why would it be a late-in pipeline transformation? All you need is the resulting vector of your head movement and line of sight, from there you start rendering the world around you. It's literally like two times head tracking.
Crimson Kopite
Banned
It's not a gimmick. There's nothing to 'wear off'.
The Mad Draklor
Member
That and having plenty of software support is key.
Full games on Morpheus will have very dated graphics though, right?
this is always stated in every Morpheus thread...
but these games are in development for Morpheus...and even if they are dialed back a bit, they'd still look far better than "dated" graphics.
people have played this on Morpheus and talked about how good it looks
ARK: Survival Evolved is being developed for Morpheus
and other *next* gen games.
Kinect gets used for medical purposes also, but that hasn't helped it's popularity in the game space.
Forgive me if I'm being cynical in thinking this will go by the wayside just like other breakthroughs such as motion controls and 3D televisions. I can't even convince my friends to put a stupid pair of glasses on to make an experience better, I don't know how I'm going to convince them to put a VR headset on.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
What is he meant to do if he wants to walk around that table for example?
The refresh rate of the visual tracker isnt the problem - I mention the refersh rate of the imu not because im saying "look how fast it polls!" But rather because im saying "look how fast this tech that doesnt require many miliseconds of post-capture calculation per reading polls!"
It is a late in pipeline transformation because of where it would need to occur for asynchronous timewarp, which is a second polling at the tail end of your rendering pass. You transform big to small, eyes are always last in this model.
It isnt anywhere near "two times head tracking." It is visual tracking, that is inherently latent. Head tracking isnt visual tracking.
What nice nonsequitor youve got there.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
this is always stated in every Morpheus thread...
"snip"
ARK: Survival Evolved is being developed for Morpheus
and other *next* gen games.
I hope that whatever Guerilla Games work on - is close to this. Damn.
I really hope the motion controls go away from all this VR stuff. Just let us use the headset as an additional mouse and let us as always play the game using keyboard/gamepad. Seriously people just look like complete fools waving their hands around and twisting their bodies. Wtf. Whenever I see that it just kills all my hype for a VR future.
With the VR goggles over your head how are you supposed to prevent um.... things from going places you don't intend them to go...?
dukeoflegs
Member
This really cool and I can't wait to try it, but this video also shows the goofiness of VR and how it will dissuade people from jumping on board.
The general public will see someone doing this (without the screen of the game for reference) and view it as goofy, odd, or weird. It reminds me of when DDR first showed up in the arcades, people would walk by laugh or make comments on why you would do that much work for a game.
Everyone comments "have you tried it?" but using that statement isn't going to sell it to someone that looks at there phone and can easily play an entertaining game or can sit down pick up a controller and play a game on their console. The general public will look at this, see the guy holding two controllers and ask "so like a wii?"
The general public will see someone doing this (without the screen of the game for reference) and view it as goofy, odd, or weird. It reminds me of when DDR first showed up in the arcades, people would walk by laugh or make comments on why you would do that much work for a game.
Everyone comments "have you tried it?" but using that statement isn't going to sell it to someone that looks at there phone and can easily play an entertaining game or can sit down pick up a controller and play a game on their console. The general public will look at this, see the guy holding two controllers and ask "so like a wii?"
Darth Smurf X
Member
Patent Idea: Beerpheus with technology that enhances the attractiveness of onscreen characters based on your breathalyzer test readings. And lowers difficulty settings. And locates nearby Taco Bells.
Yeah I think what people are hang trouble with is seeing a picture of where eyes are isn't latent. It's taking that picture finding the eyes. Calculating where they are looking at. Updating the frame to the new focal point all in the time you could have easily changed where you are looking at which means that data is still off.
You're the one who bought up medical research in a topic about games.... :/
Master Yoshi
Member
I'm just ready to be fully immersed in the game worlds I am inhabiting. That sense of truly being there will be unmatched when it comes to these headsets.
I make GAMES in the medical field. And it was in response to your preposterous "omg how can you know nobody can possibly have a vr headset" post.
Keep an open mind and wait till you have a go... games that are tailor made to use the Move controller have another level of immersion that you will never get with just a pad/mouse/keyboard combo.
That being said, not all VR games should use it. It will all come down to the game you want to design.
inpHilltr8r
Member
First time I used a Rift, I nearly throttled myself with the cables. Swivel chair is not a solution, and games with free rotation are going to have issues. Best demos have been for things where you're in a cockpit. I played one where I was piloting a helicopter, and it was incredible.
inpHilltr8r
Member
OMG I loved Surgeon Simulator
/s, respect, soz
Except none of those solutions work in VR. They only serve to either make you feel uncomfortable or sick in VR. 1:1 motion control - functioning precisely as you would in reality works brilliantly, as demonstrated with the Vive. Such motion control that sustains presence is a requirement for great VR
Assuming this isn't a troll post
Full games on Morpheus will have very dated graphics though, right?
Every now and then someone will say it will be back to PS3 graphics. Do people think the Advanced Warfare campaign mode on PS4 looks like shit? What about the MGS5 demo in the Jungle? They look amazing for 60fps games and of course they have effects and explosions everywhere. Look to those graphics at a minimum, especially in adventure/exploration VR games where there's probably not going to be a requirement to render 20 fireballs, blood spatter and magic lightning effects every second.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Well, it seems the Fove Headset is doomed to fail as it does eye tracking to
As i don't understand half on the stuff you wrote, i think we should stop going any deeper. Thank you for clarifying the difficulties with eye tracking in VR headsets.
That said,
"Eye tracking is extremely early tech however, it won't be ready for another 5 or so years"
Is still a sentence i can't get behind. Since the only thing thats stopping (if your arguments are correct) is figuring out how to integrate the already existing tech into a headset and make it work.
hydrophilic attack
Member
With Kojima and del Toro
I just want VR gaming to be like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM9s5cOKe8c
I want to relax and enjoy the game while being immersed with sound/atmosphere. I really hope I don't have to jerk off the air around me with motion controls while playing a game. Its just so stupid. I'm sure there will be some great games for the motion stuff but I really hope we get more of whats in that oculus video. I would be fine if the industry made 1 motion oriented game for every 5-10 regular games. Or something along those lines. The less the better imo.
That's not what I said at all. You know what I meant. Developers and early adopters (aka enthusiasts) have prototypes. It hasn't become available to the average consumer, and they are the ones that it needs to be sold on this for it to really blow up, otherwise it will become a niche device that people like yourself uses. You can speculate how the release of these headsets will go all you want, but you won't know until it's actually happened.
Move those goal posts. From "its a gimmick" to now "but how can you be certain it will sell!"
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Just imagine the possibilities of games like COD & BF on VR some day, it completely changes those types of games.
not to mention other things like racing & flight games.
Meanwhile 3D wasn't more than a gimmick because all it did was slightly enhance you standard tv display, all the action is still confined to that little box feet in front of you.
With VR it has 2 things, visually it slightly enhances the display but add in motion tracking and its truly the next level.
For me as far as First Person games go this isn't a gimmick, its basically an evolution of the tv display.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
After watching a stream of the S.H. demo i already figured i would never buy/play that game on a 2d screen, no way in hell would i willingly play this in VR. Just no.
serversurfer
Member
Do people really live their lives thinking, "What if somebody sees me?" How sad. =/
Any chance you can bang out a quick demo controlled with a DS4 that snap-rotates the user to whichever bearing they nudge on the right analog? So you can nudge right to turn 90º or nudge down to "turn around," but also turn to a 42º bearing, or 112º, or whatever. Walking speed can be controlled with R2. Bonus points if you can implement 3D audio to test/demonstrate the user's ability to snap-turn to look for the source of the sound.
I won't be able to try it myself, but I'd be very interested in hearing impressions from anyone who could, if you can oblige us. Doesn't need to be anything fancy, of course; it's just a UI test. TIA <3
How is Oculus' solution rumored to work?
Marks said that snap-rotation doesn't induce nausea. For example, if you make it so Circle instantly rotates you 90º to the right and X flips you a full 180º, no sickness occurs. That left me speculating with no way to experiment to verify my hypothesis. lol
Any chance you can bang out a quick demo controlled with a DS4 that snap-rotates the user to whichever bearing they nudge on the right analog? So you can nudge right to turn 90º or nudge down to "turn around," but also turn to a 42º bearing, or 112º, or whatever. Walking speed can be controlled with R2. Bonus points if you can implement 3D audio to test/demonstrate the user's ability to snap-turn to look for the source of the sound.
I won't be able to try it myself, but I'd be very interested in hearing impressions from anyone who could, if you can oblige us. Doesn't need to be anything fancy, of course; it's just a UI test. TIA <3
Err, visible light, not IR, and it's tracking the sphere on the wands rather than the LEDs themselves (which are hidden by the sphere)… But yeah, while in theory you can use any camera for tracking, Sony do mandate the PS Camera for Morpheus, mainly because it's a known spec, but also because it's a much nicer camera than most you'll find, like the PS Eye, for example.
Oh, nice catch. In fact, Sony recently implemented stereoscopy to improve z-accuracy.
FWIW, Rigby said the CMOS sensors in the Camera are pretty pricey, and speculated they used a proprietary shape on the standard USB connection to discourage buying them as cheap, high-quality webcams because Sony are likely selling them near cost, if not below. /shrug
Sony have a patent for IPD auto-adjustment using a camera on the inside of the mask coupled with the motion tracking. I take it this isn't currently implemented in Morpheus? Do you have any idea what the lens-like thing that's been spotted on the inside of the mask is for? Any particular reason you think Sony won't leverage the patented tech in the final version?
How is Oculus' solution rumored to work?
metareferential
Member
This is so dumb I don't even know where to begin.
Well; just try and say "look at this" I guarantee you your friends will be thrilled.
VR has nothing to do with 3d,wii or other fads. You will all see sooner rather than later.
Yep this is currently the biggest hurdle (imo) for all the major VR sets. You'll either have to consciously be aware of the cable and only turn up to 180 degrees in either direction (no full spins, or be willing to physically grab the cord and adjust as you go), have someone else help manage the cable, or build your own wiring rig so that the cord runs down from the cieling. None of them is ideal or practical.
That's where stuff like GearVR is super exciting. While it can't push the super robust graphics that PC VR and to a lesser extent PS4 VR will be able to, you do have the glorious freedom of being completely untethered. In a few years smartphones or dedicated cpus on the headsets themselves will be able to produce fantastic visuals for VR.
Until then, we're kind of stuck. I use my Oculus DK2 on my computer chair (which does swivel) or standing. I have to be consciously aware not to make multiple full 360 degree spins while playing. It's definitely an annoyance, but it's still worth it for the overall effect. And for cockpit based games and 3rd person VR games it's not really an issue at all.
The goal post was my personal and openly uneducated opinion, then I decided to reply to your condescending remarks (a mistake I won't bother repeating any further) so yeah the conversation evolved and the goal post moved.
Congrats you beat me.