When being a Leaver or a Remainer becomes more about being in 'a cool club' than it does about your country's future, you done fucked up, basically.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
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Didn't know that, fair enough.
Bobnob
Member
Always mate with ma egg n chips
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Translation. We are not leaving as it would kill the UK.
He is going to do the Norway deal all the way including the movement and trade. EU will make him squirm for it. Merkel and hollande are screaming at him , I her Merkel is talking in perfect English to him as well just a torrent of abuse. Cameron head in hands . He will be broken. None the less the EU will not risk UK dragging everyone down
The deal is Norway and extension on article 50 for enough time to transition this out .
Obama I believe will push us to do it .It will be held as a win by the UK.
Hope not, I quite like having a doctor and dentist.
BossDarkseid
Member
The Junior Doctors stuff is truly Hunt being a cunt.
That NHS Pic is pretty, heartwarming but sad if it was the end. I had an operation 2 months ago or so, not serious in a "You might die" way but i could have gone deaf completely and the surgeon was assisted by an Asian dude who was very good at calming me down, checking on me before and after, as well as a West Indian lady who checked up quite a few times.
As much as I wish the Junior Doctors had it easier and Hunt didn't do what he did etc, I can only speak incredibly highly of my (to date) only hospitalized operation (well, bar getting my tonsils out when i had a Hunchback of Notre Dame t shirt on). If anyone who works as a Junior Doctor or just in the NHS is on gaf and reads this (I know, very unlikely) your work is very much appreciated and we <3 you.
That NHS Pic is pretty, heartwarming but sad if it was the end. I had an operation 2 months ago or so, not serious in a "You might die" way but i could have gone deaf completely and the surgeon was assisted by an Asian dude who was very good at calming me down, checking on me before and after, as well as a West Indian lady who checked up quite a few times.
As much as I wish the Junior Doctors had it easier and Hunt didn't do what he did etc, I can only speak incredibly highly of my (to date) only hospitalized operation (well, bar getting my tonsils out when i had a Hunchback of Notre Dame t shirt on). If anyone who works as a Junior Doctor or just in the NHS is on gaf and reads this (I know, very unlikely) your work is very much appreciated and we <3 you.
ferrasvansen
Member
It will be something silly like max yearly limits of 1m, or some ridiculous figure that would never be reached anyway.
FlammableD
Banned
As much as this thread and you have gone back and forth..., I hope you're right, I really do. I just don't see where the compromise can come.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
As you can see from the map above, that's not the case (barring Hull). The north-east (which I'm assuming we're talking about here, rather than Norfolk) has seen barely any immigration at all. Less than 2% of those living on the east coast were born abroad.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Yeah and seeing as we are too big to fail . Look how much shit has happened. They won't let us.
They will take into account the will to leave but the will to also stay so they will make sure that is addressed.
We will be declawed. Allowed to be in the group but as a limited (EEA) entity .
No idiots like farage in parliament.
free movement and trade allows banks and business to Trade.
I am sure they will make us put in place investments to our poorest areas. (Use the EU funding we get for this as well as keeping other EU projects going when we leave the agreement we have now we keep paying into this.
Will still pay the EU so they profit. We have trade deals in place and building and infrastructure to make more outside but oue fee we pay will be more if we trade more with the outside world
The EU stop this mess and show us up by showing us how to do it .
and we act like yay independence woo.
You misunderstand the principles of free market. How do you have a free market without the free movement of trade, goods and Labour?
Wait till we get out of EU and see how we resort to how US employers pay Mexican Gardeners.
Data also suggests there was a minimal effect on wages due to immigration. Where there was e.g. care workers, overall it was about 1pc drop on average over long term.
Instead of complaining about government you chose to pick your fight with the poorest immigrants. Because papers told you so.
That's from my understanding, anyway. My girlfriend was close to enrolling, however the changes have come into effect this year and have prevented her from doing so as she would be incur significant debt, on top of her current student debt, which isn't really realistic for her considering the wage it offers.
Gurgelhals
Member
What a surprise.
This is exactly like here in Switzerland when, two years ago, we stupidly voted to unilaterally control immigration despite the free trade and free movement treaties we have with the EU. Just like the Brexit campaign, our right wing idiots were making loads of false promises ("Oh, sure, the EU will be happy to negotiate and we'll get a great deal out of it, because the EU is a weak bureaucratic monster and we are a strong nation." Fucking LOL!). To cut a long story short: It's been more than two years and nothing is happening because the EU is just going "Nope, we're not negotiating this. No freedom of movement means no free trade."
That really has nothing to do with it. The dollar is fine and the EU is a mess because the dollar is an actual fiscal and economic union.
Money from rich states like New York and California goes to poor states like Mississippi. services, like social security, are at the federal level, so if Florida and Nevada gets fucked over in the housing market and their economies take a huge nosedive (actually happened) welfare services are still provided to those states.
jellies_two
Member
Even the most pro EU person understands the vast difference between countries with in most cases centuries to thousand years of traditions languages and cultures embedded in their national psyche, and two random states in the USA.
It's great to be an American wringing hands and asking why can't Europe be a harmonized melting pot, what's wrong with half of the UK, when even a Canadian is an illegal without a valid work visa.
Not sure that it does. Essentially you actually mean "it's easier and cheaper to hire a TRAINED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL than train someone up from the start"
This has been a problem across the board; the young can't get a job anywhere because the stupid middle-aged experienced people have the jobs.
In the NHS they are just trying to fill gaps that exist right now as quickly as they can - it's about patient safety. They don't care where the applicant comes from - they will be paid the same.
Education policy seems to be your issue - the employers, NHS or otherwise, have ZERO say in who is trained and how, especially not at University level.
This is the austerity the country voted for. Nothing to do with "non-UK residents"
That's not really comparable at all. It would be more like a state succeeding from the union due to immigration from other states, and then once they've voted to succeed they expect all the perks of being part of the union while closing their borders.
In other words it's a fantasy.
jimbobsmells
Member
If the UK signs a Norway deal then I expect a groundswell of support for UKIP, and Farage as PM.
Oh my god this is painful to watch. This righfully comes across more as a lecture/questioning than an actual interview, and Farage is an utter fool if he truly believes what he says.
That would just be ammunition for other Member States to use in favor of leaving the EU too.
UK already had pre-established opt-outs in those areas and (by voting Leave) chose to throw them out.
EU and EEA countries all agree to freedom of movement. The EU won't risk the European project on that.
When I read how few negotiators the UK has I laughed out loud, and then immediately felt bad because this is going to really hurt the people. Not being prepared is going to have such long lasting effects it's just crazy thinking about it. They are going to go into the negotiations under maned and under prepared. The EU will take them to the cleaners, and there is going to be ill will from many within the EU. It's not going to be pretty at all.
PJV3
Member
Fuck that, we're not going to defeat the EU sending them our biggest companies and tax revenue.
Phantast2k
Member
No more calling Americans stupid and no more calling Greeks incompetent:
@nstamouli
#Greece's @atsipras told other #EU leaders that he was shocked Britain had no plan for #Brexit
@nstamouli
#Greece's @atsipras told other #EU leaders that he was shocked Britain had no plan for #Brexit
Heard a leaver on the radio today saying how he doesn't want to see any kind of relationship with Europe. "We don't need them - we need to be completely independent".
People like that voted to leave and then we've got Boris Johnson saying "I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be".
People like that voted to leave and then we've got Boris Johnson saying "I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be".
Hard to see Britain agreeing to a Norway/EEA deal that would be worse than their current situation inside the EU. If it was put to a referendum though it could very well pass. The public would think they got best of both worlds: free trade with EU, visa free travel with Europe's but also outside EU. When in actual fact they'd be worse off than ever. Getting told what to do by Brussels, having to accept EU citizens and not having any say whatsoever in the governance and running of the EU. UKIP and the Tories would go into meltdown.
GamerMax73
Member
That just ignores nearly 250 years of US history. They're closer now, wasn't always the case. Maybe the EU and Euro haven't had the time needed to fully realise their potential.
There's also the agreement towards greater political and economic ties at the federal level which is why the Euro struggles and the Dollar doesn't.
Basic devolution - succeed power to the level were decisions have the greatest impact. For some decision that means agreement at the European level.
But a UE deal doesn't depend on the vote of UK people. It depends on the qualified majority vote of the other 27 members.
*edited not unanimous vote
frontieruk
Member
Or you've accepted that is all fucked and the only thing to do is laugh and watch the world burn until suitable leadership arises or the country protests enmasse.
And finding a shirt funny because a) as it stands we're leaving Europe b) we exited the European cup where that photo was taken c) I need a laugh
And you may of missed it but taking the piss out of a shit situation is a national pastime, I think you should lighten up, there's fuck all to do other than write your mp and tell them you're unhappy with the situation.
PJV3
Member
The decent Brexiteers had better start separating themselves from the lunatics or it's going to get ugly.
Well, the options are to ignore the referendum and just stay in, take the EEA deal and make it look like we left, or leave the single market and fuck everything.
GamerMax73
Member
But Cameron's in do position to ask/suggest/demand anything.
What on earth are you talking about?
Abstrusity
Member
The hatred will always exist. This is what it means to be human.
From there, two paths diverged. One to share what everyone has with each other, in order to stop wars between sovereign states, and the other to build up military strength to ensure that nobody would threaten their sovereignty.
Over the years, the first one consolidated and, as a group, flourished. Seeking to link themselves with the world economy to level out the hatred that would always exist, they traded with everyone who simply wanted what they wanted.
The other, mindful of the whimsy of the first and of the threat posed by anyone else, grew their own power, pumped into their military, their research and development, and became the only super power.
The costs of the second's folly were two fold. While their ideals worked on their face, this devolved beneath the surface. Proxy wars with proxy countries for proxy ideals that didn't match their own, but were at least not their only aggressor's ideals boomed throughout a bunch of sovereign states with precious commodities to sell. They trained their proxy soldiers to fight aggressor countries with the intent on capturing the commodities for themselves, leaving in their wake destruction, poverty, and unrest. So the golden geese bit the hand that fed them, and in their short-sighttedness, the super power decided to attack, at great cost to their economy, as it would later turn out.
You see, while spending in their military, they ignored growing economic turmoil, as the domestic market turned to high risk assets, assets irrevocably linked to the people of their own country, requiring ever-more risky investments to supply. When those investments fell through, and those assets plunged in value, the global market took a massive hit.
The first power's economy was hit hard, as well. Countries relying on tourism and real estate started plunging and, due to their membership of the European Union, and the single currency it provided, could not devalue themselves to offset losses with higher exports(or anything else, like foreign investment in bonds, a devaluation would allow) The unrest from the second power's assault spread, and from outside the first power, came a flood of people forced from their homes by the fire of war and destruction they caused.
The United States decided to force liquidity into banks by trading for assets the banks held, the European Central Bank refused. Instead, they offered an alternative. And I say offered, but it wasn't much of an offer...more of a decree. Cut spending and raise taxes to pay for everything! Which, in decent times, may have been all well and good (but still not recommended), but these were drastic times met with drastic measures in the wrong direction. The European Union shuddered with social and economic unrest, and to the uneducated, the flood of refugees was the cause. They were not, of course, but they were the most visible, and that is all that really mattered.
So it came to pass that the UK voted to leave the European Union.
tl;dr, Humanity was a mistake, it's all trash, or: Sorry Mate, But You Owe Us One After WW2 I Guess
Because the EU citizens don't elect the 751 members of the European Parlament every 5 years, right.
Do you throw your vote in the bin whenever you get it?
Option B or some variation of it is the most likely one. Britain gets most of the benefits of EU membership while also being able to tell it's Eurosceptic people it is now "out of Europe" (which it wouldn't be). A British solution to a British problem.
It just sums up much with 'CNN INTERVIEWS BREXIT LEADER'
I know many people who voted leave who fucked around semantically but said stuff like 'I don't like Farage etc but I'm voting for Boris and / or Give because they said okish'.
Since Friday AM, Farage has been front and centre. Gove I've not seen or heard once, Boris I read his column on Sunday and have seen one picture of him playing cricket. Its now Tuesday 11pm UK. A long time in politics.
Farage is for all and intents and purposes after the vote, the Leave Leader. It is his win. And I can only imagine the horror of all those who voted for cuddly Boris only to realise they were legitimising Farage regardless of the motivations of their subtle motives.
Jesus wept.
What do you mean by "defeat", exactly?
Second point - a significant amount of our industries (particularly our JEWEL of tax revenue, financial services) are at threat of moving to within the EU. They are not industries that exist outside of the EU that we sell to them; they exist (in their current, successful form) BECAUSE of the EU.
So you will haemorrhage investment, jobs and companies to the EU unless you accept the four freedoms and retain our banking passport
Can't read it, but Tata announced they were pulling out of the uk months ago
Actually we do need them. Such severe downturns would create mass unemployment not seen since WW2.
Yeah all the people wishing for even a little token of something on this point because "UK is special and needs something to brag about in this agreement" really haven't done their researches on what has been done with other countries on the very same subject.
If the EU doesn't want to let go of the slightest thing about free movement with Switzerland, why are people expecting they will with the UK?
Bobnob
Member
In the minds of the Brexiteers all civil servants are directly elected to their roles in general elections.
PJV3
Member
I'm saying Farage thinks he can defeat the EU when instead they are going to enjoy asset stripping us at our request.
Not to mention that the Council of Ministers is made up of ministers designated from and by your national parliament that you presumably also elect.
cormack12
Gold Member
This is key. The government have limited opportunities to young British nurses. There were like 100,000 applicants for 19,000 places or something stupid. They then backfill form the immigrant market on contracts, and in severe cases fall back onto bank staff which seems from personal experience to consist mainly of non-EU immigrants.
So many people have lashed out at the wrong establishment here.
The upside is that most 'Leave' voters have shown themselves to be extremely malleable to how data is presented. Hunt's second referendum will come to pass and they will accept a worse deal thinking they've won, and Remain will be relieved that we've avoided the cliff edge.
Vodafone, Visa and easyJet all mulling moving HQs out of UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36656039
http://news.sky.com/story/1718832/brexit-jobs-threat-at-credit-card-giant-visa
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/28/airline-bosses-try-to-calm-investor-brexit-fears/
German regulator has said will block LSE/DB (if it goes ahead) having London HQ
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36656039
http://news.sky.com/story/1718832/brexit-jobs-threat-at-credit-card-giant-visa
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/28/airline-bosses-try-to-calm-investor-brexit-fears/
German regulator has said will block LSE/DB (if it goes ahead) having London HQ
Alx
Member
I still find it surprising how hard it seems to be to find negotiators, even at short notice. Can't you at least hire a few from other countries, like Canada for example ? (I suppose those from US are busy at the moment, with all the treaties they're trying to pass). Or even some from Norway or Iceland, those must know the ins and outs of European laws and treaties.
I suppose it's a naive opinion, but I would think that many people around the world do similar negotiations with Europe than those UK is about to do.
(hey, hire a Turkish negotiator, that will be fun !)
Tata was supposed to be selling it's steel factories to a third party insert a British government brokered deal. But since the ref the potential buyers have backed out citing withdrawal from the EU.
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