Tallshortman
Member
Boy if a disappointing reveal is what gave Phil this much unfounded confidence, I can't wait to see what he says next.
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The Verge w/ Phil Spencer: "PS4 Pro is a Xbox One S competitor, not true 4K system."
- Thread starter BY2K
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longdi
Banned
I guess Spencer cant always keep up his act. Where is the no-console-warz holier than Sony attitude now?
Spencer is also being rather sly here. PS4 was also 40% faster than Xbox1 and Sony even launched $100 cheaper in the same month, not a year later...and yet now he is putting them in the same bucket?
Spencer is also being rather sly here. PS4 was also 40% faster than Xbox1 and Sony even launched $100 cheaper in the same month, not a year later...and yet now he is putting them in the same bucket?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
They're about to release a new console. I don't get how they've given up.
Can't believe there's so much anger about this. The Pro isn't anywhere near a true 4K system. There's nothing wrong with what he's saying.
The way I see it, Phil isn't doing his job if he doesn't disparage that.
The whole "I'm going to pretend I'm a GAF member and not do any console wars stuff" act was a dereliction of duty in my opinion. His job is to sell his product a whole lot more than his competitor sells theirs.
Yup I also believe Forza will hit 4K native 60fps and look freaking gorgeous on the X/PC! Gears too will hit 4K native. I should expect Crackdown 3 to hit 4K native 60fps now after that abysmal showing(still pissed at them for this). I was hoping C3 to be the X showcase game as it was supposed to be but that cloud destruction bullshit and too many cooks in the kitchen really put a hamper on this game's development I feel now.
Given the specs of the console, I still fully believe it is more beneficial for devs to utilize different rendering techniques(checkerboard rendering, etc) to make better performing games with bells & whistles rather than just chase that expensive 4K native across the board. That 4K native push belongs to the next generation of consoles and the high end PCs of today.
By putting out a product with a weak value proposition that won't close the gap between them and their competitors?
RowdyReverb
Member
I mean, it's kind of true that the PS4 Pro's 4K capability requires an asterisk, but I definitely think that the two consoles are competing for the same market
gutterboy44
Member
I mean I get he has to push his brand, but it is obvious we are going to see multi platform games that have, "Xbox X Enhanced and PS4 Pro Enhanced" on the same game. No way in hell there is, "Xbox S Enhanced" alongside a PS4 Pro bullet points. X is more powerful, but outside of console exclusives, expect the same parity we always get with some minor differences that are invisible to the masses but stuff we enjoy obsessing about and it worth discussing from a technical standpoint. I hope this motivates Sony more than anything. I sense them already getting soft at the top again.
So does One X's.
Maximilian E.
AKA MS-Evangelist
Totally stupid comment by Phil!
Of course they are competitors.. basically every item/gadget where you can play games on is a competitor because that is dollars that does not towards Microsoft.
I would still argue that the humble approach would be the best approach.
Of course they are competitors.. basically every item/gadget where you can play games on is a competitor because that is dollars that does not towards Microsoft.
I would still argue that the humble approach would be the best approach.
OdysseusVA
Banned
As much as the Xbone X requires one
DangerMouse
Member
They can't beat you if they aren't your competition
Perfection.
He knows the Xbone X is going to get totally outsold.
The Xbone X requires just as much of an asterisk.
So does the One X.
El-Pistolero
Member
I think Sony Santa Monica guys proved that they can do just as well, if not better, and on a Vanilla PS4, by the way. Phil, go home, you're drunk!
GinoFelino
Member
Part of the job to say it, sure.
It's very much wrong though. They're both enthusiast consoles.
Risk Breaker
Member
Yeah, the PS4 GDDR5 bandwidth is 176 GB/s, PS4P's is 218 GB/s and XB1's DDR3 is 68 GB/s.
PS4P's CPU is also 33% faster than the PS4's and a lot closer to the XBX's. So yeah there are other differences to take into account
The problem, to me, is that PS4 is the Xbox One S competitor. It's more powerful than the One S but not hugely so (1.4x the power), and is priced similarly.
So saying something like that almost makes it look like there's a power scale that is "XB1X------PS4P--XB1S---PS4" when that's not remotely true. What IS realistic is "XB1X--PS4P----PS4--XB1S". And when you LOOK at this scale, how can you take when Spencer is saying seriously?
longdi
Banned
Correct.
And with a shorter shelf life, games that will be held back by the weakest console this gen, and still using the same weak as mobile CPU.
Scorpio is really meant for the Xbox fans the way i see it. It wont help MS Xbox branding.
DangerMouse
Member
Yep. ND and SSM still keep trading off as the best of the best and now Guerrilla's joined them.
Agree, I don't even own a 4K TV yet. Im personally hoping the developers tone down the hunt for native 4K, and concentrate on bringing solid framerate and enhanced graphics for me to play on my 1080p TV.
=)
Well I think the issue your alluding to here is the shit that Microsoft got at the start of the gen for being weaker than ps4 and the native vs. 900p stuff.
Of course the main reason for that was actually not the quality of graphics but rather the quality of the graphics for the price paid. The xb1 launch higher priced than the ps4 and came to parity after dropping the kinect. Which meant £349 1080p vs. £349 900p which of course is a clear difference in value.
Now we have £349 2160c with 2 games vs. £449 2160p with no games.
If you were to trade in the ps4 pro bundle games your looking at somewhere around £300 vs. £450 and the difference being in the opinion of many negligible.
It's easier to see £150 than distinguish between 2160c and 2160p. People are often happy to pay more for a superior console as long as it can be clearly demonstrated.
It´s the same power gap as with PS4 and XB1 in 2013. So why is this different now with XB1X and Pro? I don´t get it.
Diminishing returns, at 900p / 1080p 30% can show a lot of difference, at 4k not so much.
That's what comes with chasing pixels
It's not different. Xbox one X multiplatform games will look better than ps4 pro games. As to why this isnt as important as 2013. It's the cost but also that the games won't be built from the ground up for pro and x they will simply be beefed up ports of the base versions because they're the much larger install base.
The Greek Freak
Member
My dirty socks are also a competitor to the iPhone, but what I say about my own crap doesn't matter in reality land.
StromboliProtocol
Banned
And arrogant Microsoft is back again. That did not take long.
So is arrogant Sony... This is truly the darkest time-line /s
yukianderson
Member
To him the difference did not matter in 2013 but now it does.
Crayon
Member
Is there so much anger or so much laughter?
Hey you never know. Maybe phils mouth can turn things around this time. Maybe this time it's different.
Yep. I think 720/900 to 1080 is dramatic, 1080 to 1440 is dramatic, very subtle small to Checkerboard2160 then 1440/Checkerboard2160 to actual 2160 is noticeable but not dramatic
720<<900<<<<<<1080<<<<<<1440<Checker<<<2160 is the way it was described.
That said, lighting, AA, AF and textures can make or break any increase in resolution. 4K minecraft is not a huge step up from 1080 if nothign else changes.
The Artisan
Member
This thread should be fun
I see Scorpio and the Pro as competitors, although the S and the Pro are closer priced.
Even then I can't see someone picking an S over the much more powerful Pro
isn't pro priced right in between s and x?
The xbox one x is in competition with the pc, since every single pro enhanced game will still look better on pc from day one :shrug:
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Exactly. It's a reasonable definition. What people are mostly critizing is their PR dissonance.
Isn't the retail prices for 1TB models of Xbox One S $349 vs PS4 Pro 1TB $399 & Xbox One X 1TB $499?
I'm sure you can get them all at cheaper prices but these are the sticker prices
The Artisan
Member
oh, i didn't know there were 2 different SKUs for the s. i thought it was just the one at $300
The only differences are the level of power and a Blu Ray HD player (and $100).
Both do native 4K on some titles, both do 4Kpr on other titles.
curiouscharles
Member
wtf spencer?
gtfo with that bs.
really starting to lose any hope with regards to spencer, that's a bunch of shitty e3's in a row now from him.
[then stupid fucking comments like this one]
gtfo with that bs.
really starting to lose any hope with regards to spencer, that's a bunch of shitty e3's in a row now from him.
[then stupid fucking comments like this one]
yukianderson
Member
MS is trying to dominate the living room and Switch is way ahead of that and set up flag in the bathroom domination.
Data Ghost
Member
Clearly the One X is the most powerful box but that statement is silly on its face. The X and the Pro are attacking the same niche, even though one is throwing more processing power at it than the other.
It's also not entirely the point anymore. The real problem is Sony has delivered the better-balanced, more affordable solution, through the generation. That's the core of Microsoft's problem. When the generation started, Microsoft was compelling you to pay $100 for a less powerful console with a vision that the audience questioned, to put it kindly. It also only delivered a commodity; Sony had a better pull not only because it offered a less expensive console, but it has more unique software to complement the multi platform standard. Microsoft can throw as much shade as they want, but they have nothing compelling enough to justify that attitude.
Now, Microsoft is behind globally and has a weaker software suite, but is trying to, once again, sell a more expensive box. It's at least more powerful, but what does it offer beyond specifications and the remnants of the first party software collection?
It's also not entirely the point anymore. The real problem is Sony has delivered the better-balanced, more affordable solution, through the generation. That's the core of Microsoft's problem. When the generation started, Microsoft was compelling you to pay $100 for a less powerful console with a vision that the audience questioned, to put it kindly. It also only delivered a commodity; Sony had a better pull not only because it offered a less expensive console, but it has more unique software to complement the multi platform standard. Microsoft can throw as much shade as they want, but they have nothing compelling enough to justify that attitude.
Now, Microsoft is behind globally and has a weaker software suite, but is trying to, once again, sell a more expensive box. It's at least more powerful, but what does it offer beyond specifications and the remnants of the first party software collection?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I got the impression that Phil was less of an outright bullshitter than this. It's obvious that the Pro is weaker than the X, but far closer to it than the underpowered S.
This combined with the confirmation that the X will use variable resolutions and checker-boarding techniques to achieve 4K (but possibly to a lesser degree than the Pro) and it all comes across as very disingenuous.
They really need to show what kind of difference that extra horsepower can make, but if you ask me, they certainly haven't done so yet. Their big chance was supposed to be the press conference, but I don't think they did a very good job justifying the $500 price tag.
This combined with the confirmation that the X will use variable resolutions and checker-boarding techniques to achieve 4K (but possibly to a lesser degree than the Pro) and it all comes across as very disingenuous.
They really need to show what kind of difference that extra horsepower can make, but if you ask me, they certainly haven't done so yet. Their big chance was supposed to be the press conference, but I don't think they did a very good job justifying the $500 price tag.
Alex Stroud
Banned
Spencer's message board trolling couldn't be more on point. Well done, sir.
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