Not once did I say that Blow was lazy. And it's not just this, it's a culmination of everything over time. He's been sounding like a GAF member after the Xbox reveal lately, and it's embarrassing. Next thing you know he's going to be tweeting gifs about how shitty the Xbox one is.the tweets started with him lamenting the lack of ram in the xbox, he only mentioned the witnesses usage in response to someone. and saying 'our game uses 5gbs of ram' is the worst kind of PR you could spin since its something that would excite maybe 0.00001% of the population. but somehow the tweet ends up on neogaf through no effort on blows part but it's his fault anyway that he 'fucking annoys' you.
just happy that someone is making use of the resources. the guy has been making this game for i think 3-4 years now and he made a game as thoughtful as braid. he's not lazy by any stretch.
Since how can there ever be enough RAM?
If you easily increase the amount and size of textures, lightmaps, and audio,
then it's a trivial observation not having enough RAM. So what's the news
Mr. Blow is talking about?
It's just too easy to consume RAM that way.
If he would speak about math and physics requiring more RAM for their games,
things would look different. But just using textures, lightmaps, and sounds
arguing for not having enough memory tells me something about the programmer.
Yeah. But we know this since the beginning of the computer age. What's the news
Mr. Blow talks about? One can say similar if we would have 1TB of RAM. So what
exactly is the point he is talking about -- what we didn't knew already since
the dawn of the computer age?
It's hard not to jump to that conclusion, especially with Blow. Have you ever played Braid? Just about the worst frame rate I've seen in a game, full of jitters and jumps.He literally wrote that The Witness was using 5 GB out of 8 GB available, and people are saying it must be unoptimized? Do you people think Sony put that ram in there so that developers won't use it? "Here's all this ram, but don't you dare use it or else some forum poster will think you're a lazy coder!"
It's hard not to jump to that conclusion, especially with Blow. Have you ever played Braid? Just about the worst frame rate I've seen in a game, full of jitters and jumps.
Dude this is fucking reaching and you know it. He has no need to optimize the memory usage since there is still leftover RAM even after loading the whole game. How in the world do you ascertain it will perform poorly because of this?
Read this post below buddy. Just LOL at all the expert armchair devs in this thread, haha.
And bam:
All of you getting in a hissy fit, inform yourselves ^^
Isn't it amazing that a game developer can post on twitter about ram usage and have hordes of people who have never written a single line of code bash him on forums and telling him he must be doing something wrong?
Killzone uses realtime lighting and streaming (loading from disc/HD as needed) for textures and audio assets. As well as a lot of instancing (reusing the same model multiple times) of assets.
The Witness loads almost everything at once and utilizes baked high resolution lightmaps for the lighting. The audio for the game alone is ~800MB. Blow is actually doing some neat stuff with audio for example there are over 1,100 sound samples for footsteps, with 4-6 individual samples for each foot on each ground material in the game, which means that you won't have the repeating sound loop when walking like most games have and it will sound much more natural. The advantage of not streaming everything is that you can avoid pop-in (there will still be some as I doubt the GPU would be able to render everything at once but you likely won't be able to notice it) and have greater draw distances. Streaming also introduces quite a bit of processing overhead and also extra development time insuring that the world is broken up into small pieces and that assets are loaded in time to be used. Streaming systems quickly become complicated and can lead to a lot of bugs and uneven performance.
why the hell would I still try to get them to fit in a Mini Cooper sized amount of space inside the van? I could just pile them in, drive my van, and be so much more comfortable.
"Wants to use over 5GB.."
?
Anyway, how is this game so ram extensive?
The game looks like a current gen game IMO.
It's reaching to think unoptimized code = poor performance? That is what we've essentially been taught to think all this time.Dude this is fucking reaching and you know it. He has no need to optimize the memory usage since there is still leftover RAM even after loading the whole game. How in the world do you ascertain it will perform poorly because of this?
Read this post below buddy. Just LOL at all the expert armchair devs in this thread, haha.
And bam:
All of you getting in a hissy fit, inform yourselves ^^
Not once did I say that Blow was lazy. And it's not just this, it's a culmination of everything over time. He's been sounding like a GAF member after the Xbox reveal lately, and it's embarrassing. Next thing you know he's going to be tweeting gifs about how shitty the Xbox one is.
If Bethesda came out and said "Our game runs like shit on the PS3 because we're using all the P3's available resources", people would be a little pissed off that they didn't bother to try to get the best performance out of it.
How is this game even going to scale down to an iPad when it's using 5Gb of fucking ram, that seems like it'd be one hell of a job to 'optimize' it.
This.
Though I'm impressed they somehow got the game to eat all that ram, must be severely unoptimised.
"Our game runs like shit on the PS3 because we're using all the P3's available resources".
Who is this "we" you speak of? And careful with those quotations. Might hurt some feelings.It's reaching to think unoptimized code = poor performance? That is what we've essentially been taught to think all this time.
But whatever. I'll leave you "real GAF devs" to continue talking about how not making your game more efficient on resources is a good thing if possible.
We need a special thread dedicated for us uninformed ignorant gamers because these responses make us look embarrassing.
Let me try to decipher what JB say: Basically he's designing a game with whatever resources (time/money) to keep adding content without any worries about RAM space against optimizing "specific" areas where the game feels more than what it is because of all the smoke-n-mirror's in the background. Smoke-n-mirror tech that could've been utilized making a much more enhanced game experience. Amirite or Amirong?
Played it on the PS3 and did not notice that. Maybe your console/PC has issues...
Right now I'm planning a game for the iPad/PC. Most of my work is designing the game, but a good portion of it right now is how I can load the game into the iPad's 512mb of memory. I have to figure out how to load the game while the player scrolls across a map, how to load and unload assets in the background, and potentially limit the amount of images the player can see at any given time.
If it was just PC, I wouldn't really need to plan this at all. I could go straight into game making and not have to worry about memory juggling because most computers have 1GB to spare for games.
If tomorrow you told me I could design a game for 8GB of memory, I would be able to throw out at least a month's work of planning and testing for memory crashes, loading/unloading assets, and so on. It would be absolutely awesome.
Anyone screaming "bah lazy devs not optimizing their code" just don't get it. I can fit eight people into a Mini Cooper if I absolutely had to, stacking and squeezing them on the floors and seats, but if they could ride in a passenger van instead, why the hell would I still try to get them to fit in a Mini Cooper sized amount of space inside the van? I could just pile them in, drive my van, and be so much more comfortable.
When it doesn't actually. Ram optimization is required when you're constrained by the amount available, if you get the same performance and your ram budget still fits in the initial allocation then it is absolutely unnecessary to optimize it. For what reason would you spend additional hours of work? why bother? That would sound like a waste.Sounds unoptimized
Blow has been an incredibly annoying and confrontational voice in this console generation. For his sake, I hope The Witness sells well because I enjoyed Braid a lot. I wouldn't hold my breath on it taking off personally.
And how the hell is this game using 5GB of RAM? It's a game that current gen machines could probably run.
It's reaching to think unoptimized code = poor performance? That is what we've essentially been taught to think all this time.
But whatever. I'll leave you "real GAF devs" to continue talking about how not making your game more efficient on resources is a good thing if possible.
Lordy, and we start all over again...There isn't anything for you to buy. It's simple logic that having more ram to develop with opens up more time for game development in areas other than optimization.yeah i dont buy his bs at all.
i get that hes pissed but he sounds obsessed.
efficient use of ram doesn't mean anything if you're the only program outside of the OS that needs to use it. the only benefit to cutting down the ram usage would be one slightly faster loading time, but then that would be a waste of high speed gddr ram. using 8gbs of ram on the ps4 is absolutely what you should do if your game can make great use of it, which it sounds like he is.
It's reaching to think unoptimized code = poor performance? That is what we've essentially been taught to think all this time.
But whatever. I'll leave you "real GAF devs" to continue talking about how not making your game more efficient on resources is a good thing if possible.
Somewhere Pachter is laughing at this thread.
It's reaching to think unoptimized code = poor performance? That is what we've essentially been taught to think all this time.
.
Somewhere Pachter is laughing at this thread.
oh no you don't, YOU GON LEARN TODAY.
get him programming gaf!
efficient use of ram doesn't mean anything if you're the only program outside of the OS that needs to use it. the only benefit to cutting down the ram usage would be one slightly faster loading time, but then that would be a waste of high speed gddr ram. using 8gbs of ram on the ps4 is absolutely what you should do if your game can make great use of it, which it sounds like he is.
Clearly a lot of armchair developers in this thread don't get it.
What crock of bs. It's easy for any app to use 5Gb lol.
He probably should stay away from technical talks.
boomRight now I'm planning a game for the iPad/PC. Most of my work is designing the game, but a good portion of it right now is how I can load the game into the iPad's 512mb of memory. I have to figure out how to load the game while the player scrolls across a map, how to load and unload assets in the background, and potentially limit the amount of images the player can see at any given time.
If it was just PC, I wouldn't really need to plan this at all. I could go straight into game making and not have to worry about memory juggling because most computers have 1GB to spare for games.
If tomorrow you told me I could design a game for 8GB of memory, I would be able to throw out at least a month's work of planning and testing for memory crashes, loading/unloading assets, and so on. It would be absolutely awesome.
Anyone screaming "bah lazy devs not optimizing their code" just don't get it. I can fit eight people into a Mini Cooper if I absolutely had to, stacking and squeezing them on the floors and seats, but if they could ride in a passenger van instead, why the hell would I still try to get them to fit in a Mini Cooper sized amount of space inside the van? I could just pile them in, drive my van, and be so much more comfortable.
What's the point of optimizing if he doesn't need to? Just so he can brag about how much RAM he has left over?
lol. I was just about to ask if Blow has a Gaf membership. Or had.if blow ever sees this thread, i hope he takes the whitta quote to mind.
Again, Blow never said he wasn't going to optimize his game. He merely stated it will be nice that he won't have to spend as much time doing so.The Witness was announced for PC and iOS too. Unless Blow thinks the next iPad is gonna have over 5GB of RAM he should probably consider optimizing the game.
Sorry to single you out, but you were just the most recent of a ludicrous batch of posts. Blow is as low level as an indie guy gets, and kind of has been for a decade or so. Here's a sample bibliography; saying that he doesn't have a grasp on these issues is just weird, and shows a serious misunderstanding of his position.
The Witness was announced for PC and iOS too. Unless Blow thinks the next iPad is gonna have over 5GB of RAM he should probably consider optimizing the game.
The Witness was announced for PC and iOS too. Unless Blow thinks the next iPad is gonna have over 5GB of RAM he should probably consider optimizing the game.
Sounds unoptimized
If only there was a super ubiquitous and universally accepted to the point of cliche programming catchphrase that dealt with this exact issueIt's reaching to think unoptimized code = poor performance?
You'll never have the satisfaction. Personally, I make sock puppets with their avatars and go about it that way.I wish people who were wrong would reply to my quotes in which I explain why they're wrong. I wish they would proceed to tell me how absolutely right I am.
:-(