boiled goose
good with gravy
Wouldn't that be illegal?
I think Valve does a pretty good job of making Steam buggy on their own
The real kicker is that they even put their own recent game Shadow Complex Remastered in the Windows Store...they should know better than to support something so evil!SHHH don't bring reason into this argument based on facts and business agreements. Instead we should speculate endlessly based on nothing like sweeney
Good thing Epic doesn't really make much in the way of games anymore or there would be a real problem
The real kicker is that they even put their own recent game Shadow Complex Remastered in the Windows Store...they should know better than to support something so evil!
There's absolutely no precedent for Ms to try locking windows at all, nothing in their history suggest that and to claim as such is completely unfounded.
That was Gaben...though in his defence he has been silent this time around when it has been obvious microsoft isn't doing that. I bet there have been a lot of conversations with steam about the owa implementation.
I'm not sure Tim Sweeney actually releasing products on the system he is warning against is the damning indictment that he is a tinfoil hat crazy with a personal vendetta who has no idea what hes talking about that you think it is.
I think the natural evolution of the system that drops support for increasingly old things unless aided by something like DOSBox... is a very different thing than worrying about Steam specifically being targeted today. It's to be expected that 10 years from now Windows, Steam, and any other programs we use will be significantly different than today's forms.Windows already dropped DOS compatibility, and win95/98 compatibility, and XP compatibility. Making running them on Windows 10 a pain in the ass. And you think Tim is wrong?
MS competed with the commercial Netscape Navigator by making sure every Windows user had their own free version of the product. But what's the equivalent move they can make here? Windows Store is already a basic part of Windows and has been for years. Steam isn't a product but a service that starts just as free as Windows Store, with the exception that it's not already sitting on screen with a fresh install of Windows.Any one remember Netscape Navigator? You probably couldn't be reading this forum without the contributions they made to the web and they are gone now because of Internet Explorer's monopoly. (United States v. Microsoft Corp.)
It could happen again to Valve.
Why is it anytime Microsoft does anything, everyone assumes it's 100% related to games, Xbox vs Playstation vs Steam?
UWP is being pushed extremely hard in Enterprise as well.
I think people spend way too much time caught up in console wars and forget that Xbox is a small piece of a giant company, which by the way, several board members have suggested they sell off. So I highly doubt that they're sitting around planning Win 10 updates around how to destroy Steam.
Not part of UWP really.why would you force a touchscreen paradigm onto desktops and servers?
What? Never hear of such an limitation.why would you design hardware that no longer functions for its intended purpose if it cannot connect the internet in a 24 hour period?
Where is the proof that the its collecting advertising telemetry? What it actually collects is hardware information (similar to steam hardware survey), installed applications and usage statistics, hardware driver crash information and some "usage" behavior (examples: how much you pin stuff into start menu, how much users use alt-tab, etc.) with the aim of making sure their UX efforts go to the right place. None this really has anything to do with advertising. And the data is anonymized (as in they cannot connect data to specific user) like any properly working telemetry system should.why would you put advertising telemetry into an OS people pay for?
Why not? I mean it just gives users more choices which means more competition which usually ends up better for the end user. If you don't want to buy your "performance desktop software" from an app store then don't. Simple as that.why would you put performance desktop software on an appstore?
Bill Gates didn't become the richest man alive because microsoft plays fair. Microsoft's history of questionable cutthroat business tactics speak for itself. This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's Microsofts history. This is just how they do business. The only difference between now and the 90s is that Microsoft knows not to get caught. That and Microsoft is a person now. They can spend unlimited amounts of money lobbying. There is no more antitrust laws. Microsoft will likely never be caught again.
Thanks Citizens United.
as nutty as targeting steam specifically sounds i still haven't seen anyone really refute the idea that win32 compatibility will probably only exist in pro/enterprise windows licenses as soon as microsoft can manage it
No board members have suggested anything other than the rumored Steven Elop meeting who is no longer at the company.
I beg to differ. They have a history of trying to minimize or eliminate competition in order to drive up margins like all ginormous corporations.
But Sweeney is saying MS is actively sabotaging Steam (as in: the client) right now, at this moment. And that they'll try to make Steam (as in: the client) run worse. That's just stupid.Yes, they are accusations, presumably to motivate MS to stop taking those actions.
Gaben's silence is probably because talking about this topic will only serve to draw attention to how SteamOS ended up being a dud.
as nutty as targeting steam specifically sounds i still haven't seen anyone really refute the idea that win32 compatibility will probably only exist in pro/enterprise windows licenses as soon as microsoft can manage it
There's absolutely no precedent for Ms to try locking windows at all, nothing in their history suggest that and to claim as such is completely unfounded.
Other then very likely lose them 10s if not 100s of millions of users. Yeah they would never risk that.
This is Microsoft. The company that everyone is blaming for not innovating and being stagnant. And now you people think that they would risk their whole personal use OS market just to fuck with steam?
Shit I just forgot
You can sideload UWP apps.
Put the sideload switch was on by default,and not only are developers able to freely distribute UWP without any involvement on the Windows store, the install process would be identical to Win32
And then theres the fact that retailers can freely sell Play Anywhere codes, meaning that if you do have to use the Windows Store for games, you can buy a code from third-parties and not Valve just like Steam.
So even though UWP didnt pose a threat to Win32's existence in the first place, Microsoft doesnt even have 100% jurisdiction over how and where you access UWP's. Therefore in the fantasy scenario that Win32 does suddenly die off the face off the earth (it wont, at all) the walled garden is more like a fucking fence.
This doesnt remove all my grievances with UWP at all, I have many, but whatever Sweeneys referring to has so many gaping holes that not only were his theories presented with zero evidence, he's actually got evidence stacked on top of him that proves otherwise varying from common sense to actual policies.
It's slightly different but remember that Microsoft force-integrated IE into Windows and would penalize OEM's if they included rival browsers on their stock OS image. People wanted a way to separate IE from Windows for a very long time (security and performance being main reasons) but never really got their wish.
He acknowledges all that. But he fears that since windows is Ms os they can just change their mind and flip a switch so apps can no longer be installed from other sources that are not the store. Back at build his response was: Great, Ms addressed everything I had concern with, but I want them to make a public commitment that this will never change.
I can see where's coming from, no one wants to be at the hands of the will of the platform holder. However I don't think there's any possible scenario where ms can just lock windows down.
as nutty as targeting steam specifically sounds i still haven't seen anyone really refute the idea that win32 compatibility will probably only exist in pro/enterprise windows licenses as soon as microsoft can manage it
but how big is the non-professional market these days? it's definitely not a growth sector which is what businesses like microsoft really want, and it's not a steady source of revenue now that they're basically giving home windows licenses away for free.
the only way they're getting money from non-pro users anymore is by showing them ads or selling them software on the store. win32 in that space gets them nothing.
Even for end users they will never offset win32 until developers and users can do in uwp everything they do on win32. If uwp covers these scenarios then yeah, win32 will be replaced, but then no one will care and it will not be a bad thing.
Any other scenario where Ms just forces users to drop win32 simply won't work.
So he's carrying on with the wacky doomsday scenarios and accusations because he didnt get a pinky promise?
Jesus Tims such an intelligent guy, but this I dont get.
He acknowledges all that. But he fears that since windows is Ms os they can just change their mind and flip a switch so apps can no longer be installed from other sources that are not the store. Back at build his response was: Great, Ms addressed everything I had concern with, but I want them to make a public commitment that this will never change.
I can see where's coming from, no one wants to be at the hands of the will of the platform holder. However I don't think there's any possible scenario where ms can just lock windows down.
as nutty as targeting steam specifically sounds i still haven't seen anyone really refute the idea that win32 compatibility will probably only exist in pro/enterprise windows licenses as soon as microsoft can manage it
Hard to say exactly. But the segment (More Personal Computing) that OEM and personal windows licenses are in made 3.5billion profit Q2 this year. That does include Xbox and Windows phone, surface and bing too though. Azure (cloud) made almost 5 billion profit and office/business sales 6.4 billion profits.
https://www.microsoft.com/investor/earningsandfinancials/financials/FY16/Q2/SegmentRevenues.aspx
more personal computing includes all windows licensing, they don't break out how much they make on home vs pro/enterprise.
Well the money is made from corporate relies on end users knowing how to use windows (thus having it at home/school/everywhere) which relies on users using it which makes potentially getting rid of the users by crippling win32 insane. And this is actually something that can be seen these days. Seen new hires who really can't use windows as they have mostly just used android/iOS phones/tablets for personal computing. Thus microsoft trying to get in on that but kinda failed with the windows phone (though I really liked it when I had my windows phone phone for a couple years. just no appsthey're also making the home version free or very cheap to OEMs, it's not a major source of revenue for them.
Sweeney seems like he's turned into a bit of a conspiracy nut lite in the past year or so. He had some valid points about the Oculus exclusivity stuff but the general MS fud reeks of "look at me". I know he's the honco of Epic still but what are his actual duties there now re: projects and UE4? Seems like Tim needs a project lol.
uwp will never be able to do everything win32 can, by design
and i still think they'll be trying to deprecate win32
I though he has been in the R&D stuff for quite a while now. Working on new experiental stuff that could potentially be added into UE4 or become UE5 I guess?
Googling a bit yeah looks like volume licesing is also included. http://revenuesandprofits.com/how-microsoft-makes-money-understanding-microsoft-business-model/
Well the money is made from corporate relies on end users knowing how to use windows (thus having it at home/school/everywhere) which relies on users using it which makes potentially getting rid of the users by crippling win32 insane.
Valve already does a good enough job at this as it is tbh
There's absolutely no precedent for Ms to try locking windows at all, nothing in their history suggest that and to claim as such is completely unfounded.
Ms will definitely try to leverage the fact that they own the platform to make the store more successful than steam, but removing the ability of users to install steam is stupid and even if they were dumb enough to try they couldn't pull it off due to the open nature of windows.
Okay;
True or False - MS would like to have a walled garden they are sole controller of.
It is extremely difficult to believe that they do not want that, yes?
So if we accept that that is true - that they have motive for doing that - what steps might be taken to achieve that?
Can you align actions they have taken with the aforesaid hypothetical steps required to achieve that goal?
If yes, then suspicions that they are acting towards achieving that goal are in fact warranted.
Lol wut ?
You must be a young buck to not have witnessed first hand all of MS's Predatory Practices in the 80's , 90's and 2000's huh ?
I think the natural evolution of the system that drops support for increasingly old things unless aided by something like DOSBox...
is a very different thing than worrying about Steam specifically being targeted today.
It's to be expected that 10 years from now Windows, Steam, and any other programs we use will be significantly different than today's forms.
If they really didn't allowed windows users to install netscape then I'm indeed very young to remember, because I distinctly remember using IE to download and install netscape.
Or perhaps you should re read what I wrote?
MS supports UWA, neglects Win32 because it suits their business goals; do the math.
Its not a matter of them sabotaging the API, its just letting progress and natural obsolescence take its course. Their OS, their rules.
Microsoft has a long, storied history of trying to gain a monopoly wherever they can. This is not something new to them.