Not a dick, just able to tell framerates eerily accurately with his eyes. Any drop and he WILL notice it.
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TLOU Remastered: 30 fps option gives better shadow quality [Up: Comparison GIF in OP]
- Thread starter nhlducks35
- Start date
Let the record note that I spent all week in Europe saying exactly "shadow maps are 2x better over PS3"
I don't think anybody mentioned that in their articles.
They didn't degrade them for 60. They just improved them by a smaller amount.
Mr Moose
Member
He does Digital Foundry things I think.
I would assume so - tbh I haven't had a chance to load up MP in the 4 days since I've been back from Europe. Ringing the mothership...
This comment makes me sad.
And all this time I was under the impression all of GAF had that power.
We neeed a 60fps version of Joel Banderas
Face it Tiger..
Banned
DRUCKMANN!!
Will probably play in 30 fps if it's significant.
Will probably play in 30 fps if it's significant.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
It's not just better screenshots, it's better graphics on every level except framerate. Framerate is one aspect of presentation, resolution is one aspect, shadow detail, geometry complexity, texture detail etc are others. The idea that 60fps is this absolute necessity for a single player TPS game is very odd to me considering the praise for TLoU itself, or bajillions of TPS games on the last generation of consoles capped at 30fps, often with dips below that.
It's not like 60fps was unavailable on PS3/360. There were tons of 60fps games on PS2 / GC / Xbox, even. If you were playing mainstream games you were being exposed to both framerates regularly. And PC gamers certainly existed too during the whole period. I think we need to stop pretending that 30fps is some horrific unplayable thing. Playing a 60fps game doesn't make it like "omg I can't ever play 30fps again!" And anybody who says anything remotely like that to me is somebody I can't take seriously.
Is 60fps good? Yeah, it's great. I play with it all the time on my high-end PC where I don't ever have to make tough decisions about which framerate to "target". But when I play my console games and you do have to make tough choices, I'd prefer my single player games like Uncharted or TloU or Ryse or Shadow of the Colossus or whatever to be pushing the boundaries at a 30fps target framerate. Do I honestly need a 13ms theoretical reaction time advantage against the AI? Did this cause significant problems for people reviewing The Last of Us last year, or people reviewing Gears of War in 2006? Man I'd love to see scientific studies done on gaming performance of people at 30fps vs 60fps.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Man.... Neogaf threads sure are the best sometimes! Thanks for coming in a laying the hammer down so to speak!
Word of mouth should treat you well at this point. I appreciate your taking the time to step into the conversation here. Our of curiosity, does double quality for something like a shadow take four times the processing with the way the engine works? Like an inverse-squared thing?
Extra Sauce
Member
"Enabled graphics so good you can't tell the difference with reality while in 1 Frame Per Second Lock (accessible via the Display Options)"
dolabla
Member
Dat 60fps! So awesome! Screw playing at 30fps with a little better shadows (although it's great to have options).
Betta Lines
Member
Absolutely brilliant comparison Ehtonk.
I strongly recommend everybody downloads the version from Gamersyde.
60fps makes such a difference, and the AF... finally I see ND's texture work in all its glory! That part where the camera pans down the buildings to see Tess and Joel walk out... check the reddish bricks on the right. AF is a huge win.
I strongly recommend everybody downloads the version from Gamersyde.
60fps makes such a difference, and the AF... finally I see ND's texture work in all its glory! That part where the camera pans down the buildings to see Tess and Joel walk out... check the reddish bricks on the right. AF is a huge win.
I don't agree with this necessarily or we'd never have need for better hardware. That being said, I think 60 fps looks better inherently so don't think 60 fps is the counter to the "looking better" side of the argument.
RecursiveFault
Banned
Oh yeah that's what I meant. And wow that 60 fps footage is incredible.
And therein lies the fact that by the end of this generation when other studios have pushed the console to its limit at 30fps (and perhaps at a resolution lower than 1080p), ND being ND would eventually make a game that follows suite to bring out the best a first party with ICE team can offer.
It's the very reason why taking a stance for or against a specific framerate is pointless on consoles. Enjoy each game for its merits and as long as the frame rate is stable either bereft of or possessing very little judder, it should not rob anyone of his/her capacity to enjoy the game. And, maybe one day, we can get a 60fps version of said future title on PS5.
RedAssedApe
Banned
improved shadows aren't in the videos though. so i'll wait until launch before i write off that mode
That's real interesting that they ramped up the shadow quality for 30fps. I'm totally for devs offering options. Personally I'd totally use a "900p" mode in 30fps games if it gave me 60.
I thought the not so great shadow resolution in the TLOU pictures posted was somehow due to a limitation of the original game, but seems that's what needed to be done to get dat 60fps. From what I've seen it looks fine most of the time, though.
I thought the not so great shadow resolution in the TLOU pictures posted was somehow due to a limitation of the original game, but seems that's what needed to be done to get dat 60fps. From what I've seen it looks fine most of the time, though.
This is true, but there's nothing wrong with saying certain aspects are worth more than others. I wouldn't trade 1080p for any graphical enhancement, IQ always comes first to me.
When I'm tweaking a game on my PC, 1080p and 60fps are the bare minimum (unless the game won't let me, so I definitely agree when you say you can't take seriously people saying it's unplayable), and then I'll put everything as far as possible while making sure to keep at least those two.
I see where you're coming from, but I think 1080p and 60fps make a lot more difference visually than anything they could have with lower framerate. It's not just about more precise reaction to my commands, it also looks good.
It also directly impacts game design, but that of course depends on the kind of game.
Gee, there seems to be a way to make the part of the userbase that prefers 60 fps happy, and a part of the userbase that prefers 30 fps happy. What a great idea! A quick toggle is all it takes!
Unfortunately, it can't make completely irrational people happy. Sorry, bro.
There were certainly plenty of parts where the framerate harmed the responsiveness a lot for me, but that's because it ran below 30FPS a lot of the time.
Really, assuming it doesn't suddenly have loads of drops then both these options are heaven compared to what the original version had.
theshape31
Member
Thanks!
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I want an option for locked 240 fps and stick figure models.
googleplex
Member
You said everything I wanted to say better then I could.
dolabla
Member
improved shadows aren't in the videos though. so i'll wait until launch before i write off that mode
Oh, I'm still gonna check it out
, but man that 60fps smoothness looks too good to pass up.EightBitNate
Member
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)
Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way!
Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.
Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
I can't wait for the game to be releases already. Thanks for clearing that up.
*thumbs up*Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)
Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way!
Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.
Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
I want a 1080fps, 60p option.
Some people actually did complain about the framerate, personally I was fine with it since TLOU is such a slow-paced game. There's a certain troll in this forum that classified TLOU as unplayable due to it in every single TLOU-related thread.
But as far as I'm concerned, I'll always prefer 60fps no matter what. Everything just looks so much better, and everything feels so much better. It absolutely should be the framerate target all devs strive for. It should be the video game standard. No matter the genre. I was mildly annoyed that Peggle of all games ran at 30fps on the PS3. :lol
LiquidNarwhal
Banned
Thank you. *bows down*
Betta Lines
Member
I was strongly annoyed. I wouldn't have bought it if I'd known - I'd assumed such a simplistic game would be 60. Couldn't believe it!
travisbickle
Member
You reduce certain effects then you can improve others. I'm surprised by some of the responses as I thought people would've learned, because it's essentially the process for making Xbox One games look similar to PS4.
CyberPunked
Member
Well, this pic was taken using the unpatched version:
Really, how much better shadows could look than this? Unless they upped the shadow quality here since not a lot of geometry and so on. But I guess not.
If that's how it's going to look, 30 FPS shouldn't be that much better I believe.
Yeh, that's way too sharp.
Shadow of the Colossus was heavily criticized for its frame drops when it released on the PS2, even by mainstream reviewers.
It's a prime example of pushing a system "too far", as is The Last of Us or GTA V or Far Cry 3 or Crysis 3, or plenty others.
The problem with pushing the boundaries is that they usually can't even meet their target. Gears of War wasn't a steady 30, either. Cliff got shit for that, too. Ryse, too.
These are all fine examples of games that would have been better served with even a steady 30fps framerate. They should be the exception, not the standard.
Well what does Luke know about video game development?
Duxxy3
Member
It looks better, but I wouldn't buy the game again for that difference. Playing through it once, on my PS3, was enough for me.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Let's be clear, I'm fine with 30fps. Again, consistency is king. Not just in terms of art and design (and even programming, though that's not user-visible), but also framerate. Yes, if you're Gears in 2006, new effects are wonderful. Breathtaking. But that brief increase in heart-rate during that one moment in time is not actually as important as we think it. It's a tangible, so we tend to prescribe meaning to it, but look at a game like, I don't know, Lair (I never played it). That initial wow-factor meant nothing. Before a game is released, A/V is the tangible thing that we latch onto in anticipation, and that's great: eye-candy is candy. For the tiniest moment of time, it's important insofar as the game fits the pre-release narrative* and doesn't look anachronistic. But a more responsive game will always be a more responsive game.
*: For example, "this is a 15 million dollar game" versus "three guys made this in their bedroom"
Holy shit I totally got that. Just listened to that top 40 for 1up Yours for the first time this week.
"30 locked?"
"It's 30"
"Lock it"
I was like "damn dude..."
I wanna hear that whole segment with Cliff.
It's funny, I already had it on PC and merely downloaded the PS3 demo to see if there were any graphical improvements. Imagine my surprise.
The rug texture in that particular scene helps to hide the edges of the shadows.
... It didn't get locked.
Same here.
Yeah I know. I've played it begrudgingly. Never been a fan of the series in general.
Whether people prefer the 30fps or 60fps option I do really wish that other developers would give people options like this. No version of a game is going to have everything graphically because there is always limited resources and that's a shame but I'd rather be able to choose which areas are important to me.
The 60fps video looks fantastic to me and I'll start playing like that but I could change my mind while playing it and I'm glad I've got the option to switch if I want to.
The 60fps video looks fantastic to me and I'll start playing like that but I could change my mind while playing it and I'm glad I've got the option to switch if I want to.