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TLOU Remastered: 30 fps option gives better shadow quality [Up: Comparison GIF in OP]

S

Seanspeed

Banned
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
I like 60fps on my shooters. I don't deny that it is better.
Click to expand...
Its just as good with third person shooters. Console gamers just don't ever get the opportunity to experience that cuz nobody makes 60fps third-person shooters.

infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
What I don't get is that people pretend its some completely free thing that doesn't involve any tradeoffs (on a console ... no $2000 pc wanking).
Click to expand...
Nobody is 'pretending' that.

And I'm not sure there has ever been a shadow setting in a game that resulted in a 100% improvement in framerate by turning it down.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
I like 60fps on my shooters. I don't deny that it is better. What I don't get is that people pretend its some completely free thing that doesn't involve any tradeoffs (on a console ... no $2000 pc wanking). It always involves a tradeoff in the ultimate fidelity of the game. In this case it was shadows, but it could end up being AA, textures, lighting, particles, filtering and even (god forbid) resolution. I accept that console games need to guarantee 30fps. Beyond that everything else is a tradeoff that is worth it for twitch shooters and sim racers but completely wasteful in my opinion for anything else.
Click to expand...
We could arbitrarily lock the framerate at 15fps and argue that anything above it is a trade-off.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Feep said:
Devs should be making their consumer base happy. Unless ND's demographic consists of 1.5 million clones of you, well, I'd stop telling the devs what to do.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure most console games haven't been 60 fps and somebody is buying those games.
 
C

clutch.as.it.gets.

Member
Tom Penny said:
Pushing for 60 FPS is stupid anyway. Devs should be giving us the best graphics at a solid 30 FPS.
Click to expand...


I tend to agree but It depends on the genre/game. Make no mistake, solid 60 frames are a lot better than solid 30 frames. But the right balance has to be there. 60 frames at all cost because of "marketing" isn`t the way to go in my opinion.

And for the TLoU a solid 30 + great motion blur would be enough. The rest of the resources should have been invested to improve the overall visuals to create an even greater atmosphere and immersion.
 
The Cowboy

The Cowboy

Member
Ehtonk said:
Well... its time for another comparison.

Today i got the retail version of last of us remastered.
Its captured in 1080p 60fps but i don't think 60fps is already enabled on youtube. (or its still encoding)
Gamersyde upload is in the works:

If you like it, please subscribe!

http://youtu.be/eCra3SzCLyY
Click to expand...

You know what, this video didn't make me think about how good the PS4 version looks, it made me think about how good the PS3 version looks (i was really expecting a much bigger difference - though the video really doesn't show the smoothness of 60fps very well).
 
P

postcyberpunk

Banned
I heard that 30 fps will reduce motion sickness, which was a horrible prob for me with the Tomb Raider game. Hopefully this is true, as I considered not buiying this game becasue of it.
 
T

Trigonometrize.

Member
Ehtonk said:
Well... its time for another comparison.

Today i got the retail version of last of us remastered.
Its captured in 1080p 60fps but i don't think 60fps is already enabled on youtube. (or its still encoding)
Gamersyde upload is in the works:

If you like it, please subscribe!

http://youtu.be/eCra3SzCLyY

eOZmxYk.jpg
Click to expand...

If you weren't a junior I'd tell you to make a thread when it's up on Gamersyde. I'd like to see that 60 eff pee ess
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
robotrock said:
How is Ground Zeroes anymore of a "last gen port" than Destiny?
Click to expand...

To be fair GZ on the PS4 is a lot more advanced than the PS360 versions. It has better textures and effects and looks better than any PS3 game, but it's not like it is built from ground zero for next gen.

Destiny is a next-gen only title isn't it?
 
A

arne

Member
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)

Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way! :)

Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.

Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
 
S

SovereignSnake

Banned
For the life of me I can not understand why people would want to have a video game look better rather then play better. I just hope that when this game comes out that people will play it at 60fps then 30fps so they can see what the difference really is.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Cinematic story focused SP games are where I absolutely want devs to push graphics to their limits. When people show the UC teaser and say 'look at how amazing 60fps can look all hail naughty gods" the only thing I can think is how amazing it would look if they had twice as long to draw each frame.
Click to expand...

The argument here always reads to me like "better screenshots/videos" versus "a more responsive game". Given that consistency is the king of aesthetic concerns, it's hard to argue for the former.

But, you are right, a game that's barely about input (an interesting concept) probably doesn't really benefit much from a 60fps jump. I don't think the Uncharted games fall into that category.
 
H

harmonize

Member
What sort of deranged person would want to trade the smoothness in both visuals and gameplay that 60 fps brings for some better looking shadows? Anything minute added of that nature is firmly behind the experience a higher framerate can bring.
 
dolabla

dolabla

Member
Ehtonk said:
Well... its time for another comparison.

Today i got the retail version of last of us remastered.
Its captured in 1080p 60fps but i don't think 60fps is already enabled on youtube. (or its still encoding)
Gamersyde upload is in the works:

If you like it, please subscribe!

http://youtu.be/eCra3SzCLyY

eOZmxYk.jpg
Click to expand...

Great job, man!

Can't wait to see it as uncompressed footage.
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
Dualshockers just posted this

From Corrinne:

" More on shadows and GPU ms in general, not just TLOU. Extra shadow improvements arrive from fetching and blurring more samples which takes ms.

An easy graphics feature to add to eat up extra ms is to increase sample fetching.60 fps still great shadows. 30 fps more samples cuz we can."

The development team simply added more samples (basically the shadows are rendered more often and each sample is then blurred in sequence, which improves overall quality without requiring higher resolution shadow maps) in order to eat up the rendering power that was left unused at 30 FPS.
Click to expand...

edit:
arne said:
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)

Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way! :)

Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.

Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
Click to expand...

well...there it is.
 
C

CambriaRising

Member
arne said:
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)

Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way! :)

Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.

Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
Click to expand...

This makes sense. I think a lot of people are trying to paint it like you guys removed it to get to 60fps.
 
R

rjc571

Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Cinematic story focused SP games are where I absolutely want devs to push graphics to their limits. When people show the UC teaser and say 'look at how amazing 60fps can look all hail naughty gods" the only thing I can think is how amazing it would look if they had twice as long to draw each frame.
Click to expand...

It must suck being unable to appreciate amazing graphics.
 
Pimpbaa

Pimpbaa

Member
Seanspeed said:
And I'm not sure there has ever been a shadow setting in a game that resulted in a 100% improvement in framerate by turning it down.
Click to expand...

The higher shadow setting doesn't drop the potential performance to 30fps. It might have dropped it by only 5 or 10 frames, but since you have to lock the framerate to 30fps to get it, we'll never know. So this really isn't the same as dropping a shadow setting down in a PC game and it performs 100% better.
 
A

arne

Member
CambriaRising said:
This makes sense. I think a lot of people are trying to paint it like you guys removed it to get to 60fps.
Click to expand...

If you play it without the patch - you don't get those improved shadows. In fact when I left for Europe last week that wasn't even on the radar as actually happening, or else it would have been on my day 1 patch slide / discussion to press.
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
arne said:
If you play it without the patch - you don't get those improved shadows. In fact when I left for Europe last week that wasn't even on the radar as actually happening, or else it would have been on my day 1 patch slide / discussion to press.
Click to expand...

Have you ever thought about enabling 30fps mode by default when you enter photo-mode?
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
arne said:
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)

Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way! :)

Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.

Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
Click to expand...

well at least if you support the 60fps future and factual superiority of the framerate, you're still ok in my book. even if you did make uncharted ;)
 
C

CambriaRising

Member
arne said:
If you play it without the patch - you don't get those improved shadows. In fact when I left for Europe last week that wasn't even on the radar as actually happening, or else it would have been on my day 1 patch slide / discussion to press.
Click to expand...

I think its cool either way. Perfectly illustrates the 30/60 double edged sword.
 
J

JLeack

Banned
arne said:
If you play it without the patch - you don't get those improved shadows. In fact when I left for Europe last week that wasn't even on the radar as actually happening, or else it would have been on my day 1 patch slide / discussion to press.
Click to expand...

You guys rock, btw.
 
O

orochi91

Member
arne said:
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)

Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way! :)

Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.

Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
Click to expand...

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
 
B

Betta Lines

Member
Hey Arne, I guess ND have been made aware of the missing clothing ruffles on the PS4 version? It is evident in Ehtonk's comparison video on Sarah's back as the guy smashes through the glass door.

[edit] actually, it's more obvious as she just gets out of bed :)
 
G

Gestault

Member
This is an excellent development. The 60 fps shadows already having been improved over the PS3 shadows is all I needed to hear.
 
R

RecursiveFault

Banned
This ensures to me that the game has stable 60fps normally. Since otherwise it'd they wouldn't have degraded shadow quality when not locked at 30.

Excited to play at 60!
 
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