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[Angelus Errare]

BLM-TO banned police being at the pride in uniform they could still go as civilians. The main reasons because they discriminate against LGBT police officers and their treatment of black canadians (no different than America really).

Police were allowed to come if they came as civilians (read: not in uniform). It really doesn't make sense for the police as a organization to come to a pride parade and have a float/spectacle when they treat LGBT members of their organization horribly.

I don't think anyone can really argue with a straight face that having police in the parade is totally going to open up dialog.

 

[kswiston]

...as I posted earlier, Toronto's police have a discrimination problem.

I wasn't disputing any of that. It just seems odd to see them mentioned in this thread when you are unlikely to interact with the OPP living in Toronto, other than getting pulled over for speeding on the 400 highways. I thought that it was worth clarifying that they weren't the same.

Toronto's Police department definitely has its own problems though.

 

[MikeyB]

I don't think anyone can really argue with a straight face that having police in the parade is totally going to open up dialog.

It was pretty darn important for the queer cops I know.

 

[Kaiterra]

Toronto Police have a history (recently even!) of targeting gay men too, so they deserve no place in this parade regardless of anything to do with BLM to begin with.

 

[lenovox1]

BLM-TO banned police being at the pride in uniform they could still go as civilians. The main reasons because they discriminate against LGBT police officers and their treatment of black canadians (no different than America really).

Police were allowed to come if they came as civilians (read: not in uniform). It really doesn't make sense for the police as a organization to come to a pride parade and have a float/spectacle when they treat LGBT members of their organization horribly.

I don't think anyone can really argue with a straight face that having police in the parade is totally going to open up dialog.

Oh! And that case my perspective is completely flipped, and blacklivesmatter did a great thing.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Toronto Police have a history (recently even!) of targeting gay men too, so they deserve no place in this parade regardless of anything to do with BLM to begin with.

This. Cops like to join these marches for the photo op without actually confronting the systemic issues people have with police that abuse power and the police that protect them.

 

[Jakten]

Toronto Police have a history (recently even!) of targeting gay men too, so they deserve no place in this parade regardless of anything to do with BLM to begin with.

They literally arrested 72 gay men in a targeted sting operation last November so.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

I will say now that I've read up more about stuff and thought about things a bit I have a better understanding of why BLM did what they did. I used to be conflicted about the idea of banning the police but now I feel like having a clearer idea, and knowing individual LGBT officers can still show up out of uniform, makes me more sympathetic with their decision. Though I'd kinda like to hear what said LGBT officers' individual thoughts/perspectives on all this are.

 

[Zips]

An unproductive response to an unproductive action. Defunding Pride is a dumb idea. City councillors continue to bumble along.

BLM Toronto seems nuts. At least the leadership. I don't know what any side hopes to gain from this.

Does anyone have a list of actions BLM Toronto has done? I only ever seem to hear them being crazy, like the Trudeau as white supremacist thing.

 

[kirblar]

They literally arrested 72 gay men in a targeted sting operation last November so.

Toronto Police have a history (recently even!) of targeting gay men too, so they deserve no place in this parade regardless of anything to do with BLM to begin with.

Trying to stop a park from being a cruising hotspot isn't anti-gay: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...curtis-park-indecent-acts-etobicoke-1.3847878

 

[Alienfan]

BLM-TO banned police being at the pride in uniform they could still go as civilians. The main reasons because they discriminate against LGBT police officers and their treatment of black canadians (no different than America really).

Police were allowed to come if they came as civilians (read: not in uniform). It really doesn't make sense for the police as a organization to come to a pride parade and have a float/spectacle when they treat LGBT members of their organization horribly.

I don't think anyone can really argue with a straight face that having police in the parade is totally going to open up dialog.

But surley having the majority of police work on a float and turn up as an organization to a pride event helps this in some small way? As opposed to a few police officers attending as civilians

 

[Spring-Loaded]

But surley having the police work on a float and turn up as an organization to a pride event helps this?

Passing out ice cream cones and waving to crowds doesn't change policy. It just mollifies the people who think that stuff is how relations get better.

 

[Shaanyboi]

What a total clusterfuck

 

[kswiston]

An unproductive response to an unproductive action. Defunding Pride is a dumb idea. City councillors continue to bumble along.

BLM Toronto seems nuts. At least the leadership. I don't know what any side hopes to gain from this.

Does anyone have a list of actions BLM Toronto has done? I only ever seem to hear them being crazy, like the Trudeau as white supremacist thing.

I think that the member responsible for that and the "whites are sub-humxns, melanin gives me direct knowledge from the universe" craziness was forced out of the group.

 

[Dies Iræ]

I think that the member responsible for that and the "whites are sub-humxns, melanin gives me direct knowledge from the universe" craziness was forced out of the group.

That member is a co-founder. The other co-founder stole $250,000 from UofT students.

 

[BeesEight]

I don't agree with the ban. I really don't agree with this motion. I fully expect it to be killed on the floor. Because nothing captures the spirit of Pride more than cutting funding for all participants out of pettiness and spite. And to follow it up with a quote that Pride Toronto was bullied by BLM-TO is hilarious.

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

This is how I'm feeling about the matter. This isn't a good look on anyone.

 

[Replicant]

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

Yeah. Although I kinda feel sorry for the LGBTQ organizers since they got caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Flux]

So black lives matter slid in and can potentially ruin something meant for the LGBTQ community.. Great.

 

[Kuga]

On one hand, the police generally aren't LGBT/minority friendly.

On the other, using public funds to promote an event that excludes certain groups (even police) isn't something I agree with either.

 

[mlclmtckr]

So black lives matter slid in and can potentially ruin something meant for the LGBTQ community.. Great.

I hope you're sitting down because I'm about to blow your mind: there are black lgbtq people.

 

[CazTGG]

An unproductive response to an unproductive action. Defunding Pride is a dumb idea. City councillors continue to bumble along.

BLM Toronto seems nuts. At least the leadership. I don't know what any side hopes to gain from this.

Does anyone have a list of actions BLM Toronto has done? I only ever seem to hear them being crazy, like the Trudeau as white supremacist thing.

People only seem to pay attention to the bad statements made by members of BLM Toronto and BLM Vancouver as a means of confirming their own internal bias against the group, much like how everyone remembers the Black Panthers for being militant and threatening in the United States as opposed to the more complex organization of individuals who encouraged black positivity and helped feed impoverished children in addition to their more well-known operations.

As for BLM TO,they've helped to pressure an inquest into the police shooting and killing of Andrew Loku, organized a protest after an 8th grade student was sent home for having "unprofessional hair" (seriously) and, as mentioned in this thread, successfully protest at and have several demands for Pride Toronto, including having Pride hire more black trans women and increasing funding for committees like Blockorama, agreed to and put into effect during this year's Pride.

On one hand, the police generally aren't LGBT/minority friendly.

On the other, using public funds to promote an event that excludes certain groups (even police) isn't something I agree with either.

Police are not a marginalized group. Police are not a race.

 

[eosos]

This is all so dumb. Chicago police at the pride parade are so chill.

 

[mlclmtckr]

This is all so dumb. Chicago police at the pride parade are so chill.

That's exactly what the problem is.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

This is the way it goes with all minority struggles. As LGBTQ people gain acceptance in society their issues are co-opted into mainstream politics. Your average white gay Torontonian has nothing to fear from the police in 2017, so there is a temptation to leave queer POC behind. That's what the police want, that's what the city council wants.

BLM is 100% in the right here. Police are fucking with black people, including queer black people, and black people's former allies are getting folded into the mainstream.

All that said Pride is not the radical movement it once was. Shit is sponsored by banks these days. Which is fine for the banks and for white LGBTQ but it leaves POC LGBTQ in the cold.

This man brought the receipts.

 

[Kuga]

Police are not a marginalized group. Police are not a race.

I did not state that police are a marginalized group or a race. I am against the banning of any group for a public event using public funding.

Private funding - go ahead and do whatever you want (as long as it doesn't violate any laws, e.g. discrimination against a protected class at an event advertised as open to the public).

 

[metalslimer]

Man the ignorance of black lgbt issues are astounding.

 

[Nesotenso]

That member is a co-founder. The other co-founder stole $250,000 from UofT students.

if this is true, what is going on with this chapter?

 

[A Link to the Past]

ITT: People who think that LGBTQIA+ people and POC are completely disconnected

Queer POC are a thing, they're not outsiders.

 

[MikeyB]

if this is true, what is going on with this chapter?

I thought they were all independent?

The one with interesting views also has stated that whites suffer from recessive genetics and mused about them being wiped out. She famously tweeted asking God to give her the strength not to kill the men and white people around her.

BLM Toronto is also demanding that all police liaison officers be removed from schools and that any disciplinary action against a black student (e.g., suspension) be subject to approval by a community council of black parents.

Carding is a serious issue, as is the other manifestations of institutionalized racism, but these guys are seriously undermining the credibility of the efforts to address those matters.

 

[kame-sennin]

It just seems so counter productive to fight another group who have had to put up with a lot of shit from society.

there are no gay black people

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I did not state that police are a marginalized group or a race. I am against the banning of any group for a public event using public funding.

Wearing a police uniform and having a float is not a human right. Of course I know people love police so much they see it as such but no it really fucking is not.

 

[eosos]

That's exactly what the problem is.

I don't understand this. Explain?

 

[indigo lily]

Man the ignorance of black lgbt issues are astounding.

It's so frustrating. And I doubt many have bothered to read BLMTO's full Pride Toronto list of demands, which included hiring more POC and people from vulnerable communities, and increasing/restoring community spaces for marginalized groups.

As a black queer woman that has been going to Toronto Pride for over a decade... I can tell you that community spaces for POC have basically disappeared. Blockorama had been pretty substantial 10+ years ago and is a shell of its former self the last time I went. I stopped bothering going to the parade entirely and focused on events throughout pride week.

I think there were South Asian and Latinx spaces that just straight up disappeared too.

This is the way it goes with all minority struggles. As LGBTQ people gain acceptance in society their issues are co-opted into mainstream politics. Your average white gay Torontonian has nothing to fear from the police in 2017, so there is a temptation to leave queer POC behind. That's what the police want, that's what the city council wants.

BLM is 100% in the right here. Police are fucking with black people, including queer black people, and black people's former allies are getting folded into the mainstream.

All that said Pride is not the radical movement it once was. Shit is sponsored by banks these days. Which is fine for the banks and for white LGBTQ but it leaves POC LGBTQ in the cold.

QFT.

 

[NegroNinja]

It's honestly not that big of a deal really. Fuck your uniform and your float. Police don't need to be represented because they are not a separate race or group. It's a job if you truly care about inclusiveness and attending to everyone take off your fucking uniform and show up. It's the same parade same message your just not wearing a blue uniform. Are they afraid to show up out of uniform or something? The fact that they are complaining about this just proves BLM point.

 

[CazTGG]

It's so frustrating. And I doubt many have bothered to read BLMTO's full Pride Toronto list of demands, which included hiring more POC and people from vulnerable communities, and increasing/restoring community spaces for marginalized groups.

As a black queer woman that has been going to Toronto Pride for over a decade... I can tell you that community spaces for POC have basically disappeared. Blockorama had been pretty substantial 10+ years ago is was a shell of its former self the last time I went. I stopped bothering going to the parade entirely and focused on events throughout pride week.

I think there were South Asian and Latinx spaces that just straight up disappeared too.

QFT.

Thank you for posting this, I appreciate hearing your perspective.

 

[evanmisha]

So black lives matter slid in and can potentially ruin something meant for the LGBTQ community.. Great.

That's pretty messed up.

So "fuck everyone else until we're satisfied", right?

I'm not here feeling sorry for the police. They're not blameless in this. But there's got to be a better way to handle this than holding a middle finger to their face and telling them to get out of the room, someone else's room that they're welcome in, no discussion allowed.

So it's a fuck you, now you know how it feels type of action? That's not the spirit of Pride

I just lost a year off my damn life reading your stupid ass posts.

I implore all of you, as I always do in Pride Toronto threads, to learn something. Everyone keeps throwing around what they read about BLM TO in The Sun like it means a damn thing, but these are people in our community. Why not talk to them? Why not reach out to them directly and ask them what their motivations are? Instead, you wanna post stupid ass shit like this. You wanna discount their beliefs because something something parade. When you theorize as to the motivations of people that are literally blocks away from you at most, all you do is show that you don't actually want to know what they think or feel or have lived. Go talk to them! Don't talk to us. Unless, of course, you don't actually live here.

norm9 in particular. When you say that, all you do is reveal your ignorance. Either because you're not a member of the community and just wanna throw your valuable 2 cents in, or because you are a member of the community and don't know or care to know a damn thing about Pride Toronto. I wanna say, "What, pray tell, is the spirit of Pride?" but I already know what you'd say because it's the same thing half the damn people attending Pride Toronto would say.

I have such respect for BLM TO attempting to fix Pride Toronto. I really do. Even interacting with it in spirit on NeoGAF is more than enough for me. These threads are damn stressful. I flirt with a ban every time I come in here.

EDIT: And I've gotta send out a ton of respect to everyone posting here who has also posted in the last few threads. These tend to be very stressful dialogues about issues that affect us and our community and typically don't affect those that we interact with here. Many, many posters from previous threads I'm sure are lurking and unwilling to deal with Round 2 of this same drama, and I don't blame them, but know that I see you guys posting and greatly appreciate your patience.

 

[Zips]

People only seem to pay attention to the bad statements made by members of BLM Toronto and BLM Vancouver as a means of confirming their own internal bias against the group, much like how everyone remembers the Black Panthers for being militant and threatening in the United States as opposed to the more complex organization of individuals who encouraged black positivity and helped feed impoverished children in addition to their more well-known operations.

As for BLM TO,they've helped to pressure an inquest into the police shooting and killing of Andrew Loku, organized a protest after an 8th grade student was sent home for having "unprofessional hair" (seriously) and, as mentioned in this thread, successfully protest at and have several demands for Pride Toronto, including having Pride hire more black trans women and increasing funding for committees like Blockorama, agreed to and put into effect during this year's Pride.

Good to hear they've done some things of possible use at least.

I thought they were all independent?

The one with interesting views also has stated that whites suffer from recessive genetics and mused about them being wiped out. She famously tweeted asking God to give her the strength not to kill the men and white people around her.

BLM Toronto is also demanding that all police liaison officers be removed from schools and that any disciplinary action against a black student (e.g., suspension) be subject to approval by a community council of black parents.

Carding is a serious issue, as is the other manifestations of institutionalized racism, but these guys are seriously undermining the credibility of the efforts to address those matters.

BLM Toronto needs to give those batshit crazy leaders the boot. There is potential benefit from the group and it's activism, but they come out with God awful ideas like these and they appear not only counterproductive, but insane. This whole ordeal with Pride was half-baked. Any merit is quickly lost under the shitty way they inserted themselves into things.

 

[jstripes]

I just lost a year off my damn life reading your stupid ass posts.

I implore all of you, as I always do in Pride Toronto threads, to learn something. Everyone keeps throwing around what they read about BLM TO in The Sun like it means a damn thing, but these are people in our community. Why not talk to them? Why not reach out to them directly and ask them what their motivations are? Instead, you wanna post stupid ass shit like this. You wanna discount their beliefs because something something parade. When you theorize as to the motivations of people that are literally blocks away from you at most, all you do is show that you don't actually want to know what they think or feel or have lived. Go talk to them! Don't talk to us. Unless, of course, you don't actually live here.


I have such respect for BLM TO attempting to fix Pride Toronto. I really do. Even interacting with it in spirit on NeoGAF is more than enough for me. These threads are damn stressful. I flirt with a ban every time I come in here.

I work in a community centre in Toronto. Staff are like 90% female, less than 50% white, and there's a gay black man in the staff that I work with. But hey, I'm not part of the community, right?

All I see going on right now is the police are open to dialogue, Pride are desperate for dialogue, and BLM are standing with their arms crossed giving the police an icy glare and muttering the occasional insult. Where the hell do you go from there?

Also, the Sun is a fucking piece of shit "newspaper".

 

[CazTGG]

I work in a community centre in Toronto. Staff are like 90% female, less than 50% white, and there's a gay black man in the staff that I work with. But hey, I'm not part of the community, right?

All I see going on right now is the police are open to dialogue, Pride are desperate for dialogue, and BLM are standing with their arms crossed giving the police an icy glare and muttering the occasional insult. Where the hell do you go from there?

Also, the Sun is a fucking piece of shit "newspaper".

Did...did you just pull the "i'm not racist, I have a black friend co-worker" defense?

 

[jstripes]

Did...did you just pull the "i'm not racist, I have a black friend co-worker" defense?

He said "but these are people in our community" and "unless, of course, you don't actually live here", and I said I work in a community centre. As in I work with and around marginalized people in Toronto.

But thanks for the knee-jerk reaction.

 

[evanmisha]

I work in a community centre in Toronto. Staff are like 90% female, less than 50% white, and there's a gay black man in the staff that I work with. But hey, I'm not part of the community, right?

All I see going on right now is the police are open to dialogue, Pride are desperate for dialogue, and BLM are standing with their arms crossed giving the police an icy glare and muttering the occasional insult. Where the hell do you go from there?

Also, the Sun is a fucking piece of shit "newspaper".

Firstly, I never said you weren't part of the community, only that people who shit in these threads typically are not. Great to hear that you are and are interested in learning something about this issue! That's genuinely cool.

It sounds to me like you could really benefit from learning something about BLM TO. I recommend starting here. If you're wondering why I'm framing your position in this matter as one requiring further reading, it's because your saying that all you see going on right now is 'BLM standing with their arms crossed giving police an icy glare and muttering the occasional insult' reveals an ignorance not only of their demands but also their actions. It's interesting to me that you seem to know so much of the TPS' willingness to have a dialogue with BLM TO, and Pride Toronto's alleged desperation, yet know so little about BLM TO. I am resisting the urge to use expletives.

Lastly, yeah, I know The Sun is shit. That's the point.

 

[CazTGG]

He said "but these are people in our community" and "unless, of course, you don't actually live here", and I said I work in a community centre. As in I work with and around marginalized people in Toronto.

But thanks for the knee-jerk reaction.

Go read their post again. They never said anything about you not being a part of Toronto's community, they said your "both sides" post invokes the same ignorance one would find in a Sun or Rebel Media post that only focuses on the bad that BLM TO has said and/or done and to engage yourself with BLM TO to better understand what they're trying to accomplish i.e. what their demands for Pride were and why they're completely reasonable.

At least we can all agree the Sun is trash.

 

[evanmisha]

Good to hear they've done some things of possible use at least.

BLM Toronto needs to give those batshit crazy leaders the boot. There is potential benefit from the group and it's activism, but they come out with God awful ideas like these and they appear not only counterproductive, but insane. This whole ordeal with Pride was half-baked. Any merit is quickly lost under the shitty way they inserted themselves into things.

Oh, no! Someone staged a sit in during the parade! Now I'll be late to the Bud Light® tent!