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[RedSwirl]

I don't think this is a bad idea at all and I honestly can't think of a better alternative for Sony. A UMD drive in the Vita would've just driven up its cost and made the hardware less reliable just for physical BC. Sony basically learned that a handheld that runs discs was a bad idea. Also, the feel looks to be 50% or 75% off of the full price of the PSN game. I can deal with that.

Actually, It'd be kinda cool to see this same thing implemented for console games, especially the 360. In that case depending on the price, even if you do get a game from GameStop, do the digital transfer, and then trade the game back in, Microsoft, the game's publisher, and GameStop all still got some money out of you.

The only way I could really see exploiting this is through my GameFly account.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Yes.

And the problem i see is that they are charging $10 for a game that they admit you already own. When other companies have been letting you play the previous gen's games on the new console for free. I agree that without the UMD's maybe there should be some sort of a charge to cover their cost's, but $10? You can probably get half the PSP's back catalogue on UMD for less than that. They can not justify this charge if their reasoning is just the bandwidth fee. If i reinstall Steam, it lets me redownload 300gb of games for free. By Sony's reckoning, this should cost me around $1600.

And i don;t know why everyone is making comparisons to gamecube/Wii etc.. I can't recall this type of scheme being done before, so there isn't really a valid comparison. They should just sell the games online for the same price. I'd be fine with that.

It's not just a bandwidth fee though. Steam lets you redownload games, so does Sony, but only when you buy those games in that format from their service. I can't get my old PC games off of Steam that I already paid for. Only new games, and only some of them let me get a copy off of steam if I buy a physical version of it.

As you said, it's the UMD issue and there just isn't a UMD drive on this new system unlike other systems and BC, which supported the previous systems cart/disc format. By going digital, they basically created a situation that has no easy way of doing this outside of selling a drive that connects to your VITA, and that alone is going to cost a good amount.

 

[R_thanatos]

ok so only the game that had a digital version will be compatible ? it's .....better than nothing i guess

 

[electroshockwave]

So you'd say it would be justified if Nintendo asked you to pay 10$ to play the DS games you already bought on the 3DS ? Because that sounds pretty stupid. Or is this some kind of double standard ? Or even 'completely different' because they kept a slot for DS cartridges ?

Sony left out the UMD drive for various reasons, among many to save money and keep the PSV battery life at least somewhat reasonable, yet now demands you pay them (again) a not-to-small fee of $10 to play games you already paid for. I don't see how this is fair, sorry.

Are you honestly telling me there was no legitimate way to offer people backwards compatibility for less or even free ? Or are you one of those that claim that there's little profit margin for Sony ? Because I seriously doubt it costs them $10.

I'm sorry but backwards compatibility between generations should be the standard (and has been the standard for a long time), this seems - though this is just the impression I get, I'm sure someone around here can explain why this cannot cost less than $10 - another way of Sony to make a bit money, similar to the memory cards.

Well, it would be ridiculous for Nintendo to charge to play DS games on the 3DS as including the slot for DS games was hardly an issue compared to including a UMD drive on the Vita. However, they did remove GBA compatibility from the DSi onwards and they are going to sell GBA games on the virtual console, right?

You have a point in that it could be cheaper, it should probably be $5 for the transfer on everything but recent games like Type-0. But aside from that what solution do you really have that could feasibly work without screwing over either Sony, publishers or consumers?

And backwards compatibility is hardly standard, especially not for a long time. GC didn't have BC, neither did the Dreamcast, the 360 has incomplete emulation, as mentioned the DSi and XL don't play GBA games, PS3 lost PS2 BC, I think the Wii-U won't play GC games. It's a hardly a standard feature, it's a nice bonus and you can't expect a platform holder to go to ridiculous lengths like including old hardware or giving away free download copies to support it.

 

[kuroshiki]

Yes.

And the problem i see is that they are charging $10 for a game that they admit you already own. When other companies have been letting you play the previous gen's games on the new console for free. I agree that without the UMD's maybe there should be some sort of a charge to cover their cost's, but $10? You can probably get half the PSP's back catalogue on UMD for less than that. They can not justify this charge if their reasoning is just the bandwidth fee. If i reinstall Steam, it lets me redownload 300gb of games for free. By Sony's reckoning, this should cost me around $1600.

And i don;t know why everyone is making comparisons to gamecube/Wii etc.. I can't recall this type of scheme being done before, so there isn't really a valid comparison. They should just sell the games online for the same price. I'd be fine with that.

Of course it is not valid comparison because no other companies ever offered you discount for its digital downloadable form of software just because you own a physical copy.

You STILL own the software in its physical form you know.

 

[Xena]

Very interesting. If it makes it here, I'll only upgrade a few personal favorites though... too many games and I doubt they'd license all anyway.

 

[Rolf NB]

We're talking about DOWNLOAD vs DISC, both DIGITAL FORMATs.

There, now it makes sense.

 

[zeelman]

Sony's real fault was going UMD in the first place (but that's hindsight, you don't plan to make a system to support it's hypothetical successor), and that consumers continued to buy them over digital (and ironically even berated others for supporting their DD platform).
.

I think keeping future successors in mind is a good idea. Just like look at Nintendo. They offered GBA compatibility with the DS and DS Lite systems, and the Wii plays Gamecube titles.

 

[King_Moc]

As you said, it's the UMD issue and there just isn't a UMD drive on this new system unlike other systems and BC, which supported the previous systems cart/disc format. By going digital, they basically created a situation that has no easy way of doing this outside of selling a drive that connects to your VITA, and that alone is going to cost a good amount.

And i'd have no problem if i thought they were making a reasonable amount of profit out of it, they're a business, it's what they do. For $10 though, i genuinely think they're ripping people off is all.

 

[rpmurphy]

Wouldn't it be better to just pay a fixed amount to transfer all the games that you have instead? You still have to get hold of physical games and these are going to be legacy titles anyway.

 

[dragonelite]

Would lve if next gen systems used this system too just pay for example 300~500 msp or so to get a digital copy. And to make it work just use a a digital copy code or something given with the game the 300 msp is for the data and bandwidth cost.

 

[BattleMonkey]

And i'd have no problem if i thought they were making a reasonable amount of profit out of it, they're a business, it's what they do. For $10 though, i genuinely think they're ripping people off is all.

Perhaps, though as others have said it's likely also a fee being tossed ontop to combat piracy as there really is no way to control it with such a program outside of new hardware to let UMD use. As quickly brought up with rental idea, it would be a buffet of people getting software for next to nothing, or friends just passing around a UMD for cheap PSP game downloads.

Even paying 10 bucks a game, I can use an unlimited rental service like blockbuster total access or gamefly to get tons of legacy titles for cheap

 

[TheSeks]

Good, but what will they do with the UMD to prevent people from simply buying ~$1-2 UMDs that are "supported" and then getting a license for them?

Also $10 for transfering MG:AC!D, PSP1/2, and Liberty City Stories isn't bad. Roughly the price of a Square PSX game on PSN.

 

[test_account]

What a stupid question. DS/DSi games play on 3DS at no charge.

Vita is the first system since GameCube to not have backwards compatibility available to early adopters. It's something we've come to expect, so it's something people are going to be upset about.

I dont expect it because there can be logical reasons why something doesnt have backward compability. For me to expect BC on Vita, i would also have to expect it to have an UMD drive. But i didnt expect this.

Do people expect the WiiU to have backward compability with the Gamecube?

There was a thread recently about whether or not you would pay for backwards compatibility. The general consensus was "No thanks, I wouldn't; it should be a standard."

People wanting stuff for free instead of paying for it isnt exactly surprising though If backward compability means extra hardware, then it cost extra money. And even if it is software based, it can still cost money (depends on how much resources it takes to create and maintain the emulator).

Good, but what will they do with the UMD to prevent people from simply buying ~$1-2 UMDs that are "supported" and then getting a license for them?

Also $10 for transfering MG:AC!D, PSP1/2, and Liberty City Stories isn't bad. Roughly the price of a Square PSX game on PSN.

They cant prevent it. I actually dont think that they mind if people share the same UMD either to be honest, especially when we are talking about older games that arent selling anymore. If 3 people share the same UMD, then that means 3 digital download sales instead of 1

 

[Shouta]

Pretty good deal for folks that don't own PSPs and the UMDs but have friends that do.

This is totally understandable though. Unfortunate that they couldn't come up with a scheme to allow UMD owners to do it for free but oh well, it happens when you change formats.

 

[Michan]

We're talking about DIGITAL DOWNLOAD vs DISC FORMAT, not DIGITAL FORMAT.

I'm talking about BC. If you don't want to talk about BC, then talk to somebody else.

He's on the ihateSony planet.

I love Sony. I had a PSphat while living in N.A. and bought a PSslim when I returned to Europe. I've gone through about five PSones and have owned both PS2 revisions several times, buying one for my girlfriend back in its heyday.

But backwards compatibility shouldn't be tossed aside, as others could follow suit and we'll lose something that has become expected on every other digital format.

360 does not have very good BC. Not all games are BC and if I'm not mistaken, there are some games with problems.

360 has great BC, considering the hardware doesn't actually support the software. And they continued working to support more and more titles years into 360's lifetime. The effort is unprecedented, and did a lot for their reputation as a "gamer-supporting" platform holder.

The Gamecube didn't fail because it didn't have BC. The Wii didn't succeed because it was BC.

It's just a tiny little factor, but isn't it interesting.

Also, my DS XL doesn't play GBA games. Neither do DSi systems.

The 3DS supports 3DS and DS/i games. Your DSi supports DSi and DS games. The DS supports DS and GBA games. The GBA supports GBA and Game Boy/Color games.

Nintendo has followed a formula here, and it was awesome. I carried GBA games around with my DS/Lite, just as I carried Game Boy games around with my GBA.

Didn't you? Or did you just play Mario 64 DS/Mario Advance/Pilotwings for a year?

 

[Somnid]

I think keeping future successors in mind is a good idea. Just like look at Nintendo. They offered GBA compatibility with the DS and DS Lite systems, and the Wii plays Gamecube titles.

You can't do it. Who knew if there was going to be a Vita successor in 2003? Who knew what technology would be available or how the market would change to see what it looked like? Who knew UMD would be universally loathed as a format?

Nintendo does this because they very specifically are BC conscious in so far they will include the hardware of the previous gen and base new hardware off of it. You might even say this has held them back in some respects. Even then people still complained when 5 years after the fact they cut of BC in Wii and DSi.

 

[King_Moc]

Perhaps, though as others have said it's likely also a fee being tossed ontop to combat piracy as there really is no way to control it with such a program outside of new hardware to let UMD use. As quickly brought up with rental idea, it would be a buffet of people getting software for next to nothing, or friends just passing around a UMD for cheap PSP game downloads.

Sony's inability to combat piracy shouldn't be passed onto the consumer in the form of a 'just to make sure you're honest' tax.

Charging loyal fans for being loyal fans?

 

[neoemonk]

This is nice in theory, but my wireless hasn't connected on my PSP in months now.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i think $5 would be a fair price for a service like this, $10 and up is laughable.

 

[Seven Force]

I don't mind paying to transfer my UMDs, but I get the feeling I won't really use the feature much, since most of the games I'd want to transfer probably won't be available (Kingdom Hearts, Outrun, Megaman Powered Up, etc.)

It's nice for those who can take advantage of this, though.

 

[TheSeks]

They cant prevent it. I actually dont think that they mind if people share the same UMD either to be honest, especially when we are talking about older games that arent selling anymore. If 3 people share the same UMD, then that means 3 digital download sales instead of 1

Dear Diary: Jackpot.

Now to see if anyone on GAF has DoAaradise's UMD and is willing to pay-it-forward to me. >_>

 

[Michan]

I dont expect it because there can be logical reasons why something doesnt have backward compability. For me to expect BC on Vita, i would also have to expect it to have an UMD drive. But i didnt expect this.

Do people expect the WiiU to have backward compability with the Gamecube?

Of course Wii U won't have BC support for GameCube – it'll be more than ten years old by the time Wii U launches.

But I can guarantee you there will be GAF-wide rage if Wii U does not support the Wii library. The same will likely apply to PS4/Xbox Next.

People wanting stuff for free instead of paying for it isnt exactly surprising though If backward compability means extra hardware, then it cost extra money. And even if it is software based, it can still cost money (depends on how much resources it takes to create and maintain the emulator).

It's not really wanting something for free. It's reduced ownership by the platform holder: you shouldn't be forced into buying a second license for exactly the same code if you want to play it on your new system.

You've already given Sony a lot of money by buying their shiny new system. The least they can do is provide some after-sales service for their long-time supporters.

 

[lowrider007]

You see this is the thing, your not really paying $10's to transfer the game, your essentially paying $10's for a digital downloadable version of the same game.

As it says in the op,

"You can then download the downloadable version of your game at discount price."

This isn't a transfer fee really, they are just giving umd owners to opportunity to have their games at a reduced rate on the new system, simple as that.

End of the day systems and formats change, backwards compatibility is never guaranteed nor should it be (although it is a nice bonus if it is).

 

[test_account]

The GBA supports GBA and Game Boy/Color games.

Just wanted to mentioned as a side note that the GBA Micro doesnt support Gameboy and Gameboy Color games.

 

[Michan]

Just wanted to mentioned as a side note that the GBA Micro doesnt support Gameboy and Gameboy Color games.

Another case of a system failing miserably. I didn't buy it until much later thanks to that very reason.

 

[UncleSporky]

Just wanted to mentioned as a side note that the GBA Micro doesnt support Gameboy and Gameboy Color games.

And the DSi doesn't support GBA games, and the new cheaper version of the Wii doesn't support Cube games.

However, these all came out many years after the first hardware iteration. This is Vita at launch.

 

[Princess Skittles]

Just wanted to mentioned as a side note that the GBA Micro doesnt support Gameboy and Gameboy Color games.

Well, that's mostly because GB and GBC carts are twice as large as a Game Boy micro.

 

[demigod]

I'm talking about BC. If you don't want to talk about BC, then talk to somebody else.

You quoted a guy talking about a digital copy, aka digital download.

But backwards compatibility shouldn't be tossed aside, as others could follow suit and we'll lose something that has become expected on every other digital format.

I love BC too but I sure as hell don't want a UMD drive in my Vita.

360 has great BC, considering the hardware doesn't actually support the software. And they continued working to support more and more titles years into 360's lifetime. The effort is unprecedented, and did a lot for their reputation as a "gamer-supporting" platform holder.

Years? I could've swore they stopped doing BC within a year(or under 2) of the 360's life.

 

[Lance Bone Path]

Wouldn't it be better to just pay a fixed amount to transfer all the games that you have instead? You still have to get hold of physical games and these are going to be legacy titles anyway.

I would imagine that some of the fee is going to the publisher.

Certainly it would be better for consumers to pay almost nothing per game and get a hundred games transferred, but it would probably be a tough sell for Sony to get any publishers on board with it.

 

[dallow_bg]

Sounds reasonable. Good news for the few titles I'll actually want to play on Vita.
Assuming it even comes to NA.

Otherwise, I'm happy keeping all my games digital with the GO, I can use a Dualshock 3 with that one as well.

 

[test_account]

Of course Wii U won't have BC support for GameCube – it'll be more than ten years old by the time Wii U launches.

But I can guarantee you there will be GAF-wide rage if Wii U does not support the Wii library. The same will likely apply to PS4/Xbox Next.

Why is it "of course"? The PS3 supports PS1 games to this day, over 15 years after the PS1 was released. The Wii is 100% BC with the Gamecube, and if the WiiU is BC with Wii, why not with the Gamecube as well?

But i dont expect the WiiU to have Gamecube BC (i know that it wont have it thought, but even if i didnt know it, i still wouldnt have expected it).

It's not really wanting something for free. It's reduced ownership by the platform holders: you shouldn't be forced into buying a second license for exactly the same code if you want to play it on your new system.

You've already given Sony a lot of money by buying their shiny new system. The least they can do is provide some after-sales service for their long-time supporters.

If it costs extra money to include BC, then this is something that the consumer have to pay for. This is one of the reasons why Sony removed PS2 BC from the later PS3 models because it costed money to include those extra PS2 chips. Otherwise the company would have to include it for free, and it isnt surprising that people want to get more and pay less

 

[friskykillface]

Hmmmmm so it can be above $10 on some of them?
Square transfer tax, $15 minimum

I have a few psp umds that I kept when I sold my 3000, I'll do it for some of those.

It'll be good when they start slashing prices on psp games, I can take advantage

 

[RedSwirl]

Technically you could say Nintendo HAS done the same thing by offering NES, SNES, and Game Boy games on Virtual Consoles for systems that don't run those cartridges anymore.

And about the price, I think it's reasonable to pay $10 for a digital version instead of $40, and I think it is dependent on the price of the full game. Some of the fees I saw listed there were less than $2.

Plus, we're all arguing about Japanese prices right now. That's a country where people have paid upwards of $60 for DS games. If this get's done in North America there is absolutely nothing indicating that the prices will be the same here. They'll probably be lower.

 

[lowrider007]

The 3DS supports 3DS and DS/i games. Your DSi supports DSi and DS games. The DS supports DS and GBA games. The GBA supports GBA and Game Boy/Color games.

Nintendo has followed a formula here, and it was awesome. I carried GBA games around with my DS/Lite, just as I carried Game Boy games around with my GBA.

A formula that is a lot easier to follow if it only really requires minor tweaks to the cartridge slot to load in the past gen games, as you can see with the DSi/XL they dropped the gba slot because in this particular instance it was an extra slot which cost considerably more and changes the aesthetics of the system, I don't think anyone expected Sony to place a UMD drive on their next handheld.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Sony's inability to combat piracy shouldn't be passed onto the consumer in the form of a 'just to make sure you're honest' tax.

Charging loyal fans for being loyal fans?

This is again not totally in Sony's control. Despite what they do, their licenses for having the games on PSN for distribution does not give them the control of how they give out the games. The publisher/license holders are the ones who have to allow this, and to them piracy is a concern. I wouldn't call it an inability to combat piracy either, as this is a situation that has no simple system and really, no one has tried it before.

People look at it as BC, but it's not the same situation that other systems have gone through because of the hardware format change.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Well, one thing some aren't considering is that yen doesn't equal dollars and normally they price things accordingly. Just like the MC price in japan won't equal the mc price in america.

 

[Levyne]

I just keep the psp around

 

[test_account]

Another case of a system failing miserably. I didn't buy it until much later thanks to that very reason.

I think it was more that it came out too late, and since the DS had GBA backward compability, people probably wanted a DS instead

And the DSi doesn't support GBA games, and the new cheaper version of the Wii doesn't support Cube games.

However, these all came out many years after the first hardware iteration. This is Vita at launch.

Yep, that is why i wrote it as a side note and not as an arguing point

The Vita doesnt have a UMD drive, so i'm not sure how people expect 100% PSP BC. Transfering the games from PSP to the Vita would also be unrealistic to expect in my opinion because then people can just share the games very easily. It would kinda be like expecting the N64 to have BC with the SNES.

Well, that's mostly because GB and GBC carts are twice as large as a Game Boy micro.

I'm not sure, the GB/GBC games sticks out of the GBA and GBA SP as well. I think that it has something to do with cost reduction on the GBA Micro, but i'm sure someone knows this better than me

 

[deathkiller]

Who knew UMD would be universally loathed as a format?

I don't loathe the UMD

In 2006 when DJ Max Portable was released the game wouldn't had been the same if the PSP used cartridges (1+ GB game by a small company). For that alone I will always be grateful of the UMD even if that means not being able to play it on the PS Vita (not that my 3 PSPs will disappear if I feel like playing it again).

 

[Yuterald]

I guess this is better than nothing. I think it's going to be cheaper for me to just keep my PSP and my UMD collection as is. I think I have 70+ PSP games and I plan to add some more to my collection before I call it quits. To transfer all of these would probably ultimately cost me $1000. I still hold onto my older systems to play certain libraries so what's the difference?

Plus, I really like playing my PSP games on my TV. Vita isn't even going to have a component cable, correct? Fuck that. I'll use my Vita for Vita games alone.

 

[Takamura-San]

AW HELL NO, I hoard my games.

You want cake and also eat it.

One or the other.

 

[UncleSporky]

The Vita doesnt have a UMD drive, so i'm not sure how people expect 100% PSP BC. Transfering the games from PSP to the Vita would also be unrealistic to expect in my opinion because then people can just share the games very easily. It would kinda be like expecting the N64 to have BC with the SNES.

Except they can't, because Sony can track whether UMDs have been registered or not.

http://andriasang.com/comyxt/

Since they have the capability to make each UMD only register-able once, there's no reason to charge for it.

 

[gogogow]

I Then again it's one of the few notable exceptions, as even the XBox360 offers decent (free) backwards compatibility from what I've heard.

Not really since a HDD is required. Arcade owners are left out or have to pay a fee (lol) to get partial BC.

 

[duckroll]

Since they have the capability to make each UMD only register-able once, there's no reason to charge for it.

Tell that to publishers. Try and get them to sign on for a scheme like this for free and see how successful you are.

 

[deathkiller]

Except they can't, because Sony can track whether UMDs have been registered or not.

http://andriasang.com/comyxt/

Since they have the capability to make each UMD only register-able once, there's no reason to charge for it.

Being able to sell the game after it has been registered to other PSP users seems to be a good reason unless the register process destroy the UMD.

 

[seady]

Pretty much all PSP games are around $10 nowadays at retail. This is a ripoff.

 

[test_account]

Except they can't, because Sony can track whether UMDs have been registered or not.

http://andriasang.com/comyxt/

Since they have the capability to make each UMD only register-able once, there's no reason to charge for it.

I doubt that this will happen actually. At least i cant see how it is possible. From my knowledge, all physical copies of games are identical, there isnt any unique serial number on them that can be registered. If this was the case, i think that they would have come up with this solution already with the PSP Go.

 

[mattp]

everyone who thinks this should be free, could you please explain to me how that would work? honestly


how the hell do you expect them to do this? it's not like discs(umds for example) have some unique ID on them where once you used it the psn store could flag it and never let it be used again. there's absolutely no way to tell if a disc has been used once, 500 times or not at all. it's either this(which is awesome, and more than you should have expected) or nothing at all

but keep complaining about something that is impossible to do

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

So you'd say it would be justified if Nintendo asked you to pay 10$ to play the DS games you already bought on the 3DS ? Because that sounds pretty stupid. Or is this some kind of double standard ? Or even 'completely different' because they kept a slot for DS cartridges ?

Sony left out the UMD drive for various reasons, among many to save money and keep the PSV battery life at least somewhat reasonable, yet now demands you pay them (again) a not-to-small fee of $10 to play games you already paid for. I don't see how this is fair, sorry.

Are you honestly telling me there was no legitimate way to offer people backwards compatibility for less or even free ? Or are you one of those that claim that there's little profit margin for Sony ? Because I seriously doubt it costs them $10.

I'm sorry but backwards compatibility between generations should be the standard (and has been the standard for a long time), this seems - though this is just the impression I get, I'm sure someone around here can explain why this cannot cost less than $10 - another way of Sony to make a bit money, similar to the memory cards.

Edit:
Though there have of course been exceptions to backwards compatibility between generations.

They don´t demand anything. They are not forcing you to do anything. You can keep playing PSP UMD games on the PSP.