It's specifically NOT extreme, it is the standard recommendation of the largest professional organization that deals with these issues.
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Transgender 3rd Grader will be allowed to go to school as a girl
- Thread starter Gaborn
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It's specifically NOT extreme, it is the standard recommendation of the largest professional organization that deals with these issues.
Flame Lord
Member
lol, ok 3rd grader. Still kinda seems ridiculous to me though.
Is this process damaging or hurtful in any way when the gender was mis-identified and it was 'just a phase'?
Devolution
Member
Ignore all of that for a second. Suppose that a mind was wired to think that it should be dealing with female body but instead was placed in a male body (or vice versa). That's what it feels like for them.
Nope, my understanding is a person can have a normal puberty if they decide not to go through with a transition.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I have the same reaction "I didn't have a sense of gender at all, at that age", but I recgonize that cisgendered people don't really feel anything because nothing is mismatched... so it's hard to appeal to my own experience on such an issue.
Those aren't the same thing. It could be extreme and still be the standard recommendation.
The question we should be asking is what are the costs of a false positive, what are the costs of a false negative, and how likely are we to see errors of each type?
Given that it's the standard recommendation, one assumes (hopes?) they've already looked at these and decided this is on balance appropriate.
Devolution
Member
It's basically knowing something is misaligned or out of the ordinary that makes someone more aware of things. When you're different you know it and you're desperately trying to figure out why.
Perspicacity
Banned
The answers to all of this have been stated in this thread right above you.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
How does anybody know theirs? I think I get that what is gender thread now.
What if you were born a boy but like girl things but in a tom boy sort of way and your attracted to girls and boys. I guess the really important question is how do you know what sex you want to be for the rest of your life? Is it easier to stay your designated sex and decide when you're absolutely sure you want to commit to the other for the rest of your life at an adult age. Can you switch early and switch back? What about the cases where it isss just a phase? That must happen. What a complex web of scenarios. Maybe we shouldn't even break down into whether you want to be a girl or not. Maybe you want female genetalia but a rugged beard, but if I decided that at a young age would anyone let me take the hormone treatments for something odd and tailored?
Right. I just wonder what's going on under the hood that does the 'wiring' part.
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(I'm going to put this out here now. I'm not insinuating I don't believe nor support gender identities and transgenderism. I do, very much so. Google'ing and wiki'ing the topic myself just hasn't yielded satisfactory results for my curiosity, so I have been asking questions about it here.)
Er, no they haven't.
Shouta
Member
A kid can and will be themselves without having to define whether they are a boy or a girl. Those roles are not really as important prior to puberty or maturity or whatever you want to call the age where that element becomes more prominent.
As I said in my prior post, I have experience with this as a teacher. Although, it wasn't really clear if they had gender dysphoria, most of us teachers and the other student knew that this kid might be in this situation. We made it clear to the other students in the class that regardless or whether not that may be the case, that kid was still a person and should be treated as themselves. The students understood and treated that kid with every ounce of respect they deserved. I asked them about the kid before I left Japan and what they felt. Most of the students knew the kid was very likely trasngendered but they all said it didn't really matter telling me the exact same thing we teachers told them back in 2nd grade.
Devolution
Member
Where? When?
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The Everyman
Fair enough
BadAss2961
Member
Omg. So much truth right here.
Perspicacity
Banned
So you were just reacting to Gaborn's link without reading it? That makes sense.
Not sure why pointing out the logical hypocrisy some people exhibit would be bait.
Remember when a boy wanted to wear a dress and GAF went apeshit crazy? lol
Or maybe, just maybe, I read the link and it didn't answer those questions? Nah, not a chance.
We have to watch out for 8 year old sexual predators. Such a menace!
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The Everyman
They're 8 year holds. Sall good for now.
Or the newspaper--the original article title specifically mentioned the girl's bathroom.
Well, it didn't seem the thread (or the article) was really headed in that direction. Though a couple of Devolutions' posts were phrased in a way that begged someone to say something like "but you dressed up like a boy, this is a boy dressing up as a girl."
It was well done!
And there is logical hypocrisy to it. Agreed.
Shouta
Member
I'm not going to deny that there isn't some things that are influenced by gender for kids in elementary school but a lot of kids can and will see each other as individuals. I can clearly remember seeing several of my friends when I was young as "Cathy", "Joe", "Frank, "Lynn" and not the fact that they were a boy or a girl. They were my friends, we enjoyed doing things together and playing outside. A lot of my former students did the same. I did have the benefit of teaching at small school where all the students knew each other though, so it was somewhat of a perfect situation.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Have there ever been cases where someone got the help at a young age and regretted it later?
CornBurrito
Member
1. They aren't performing surgery.
2. Kids tend to know their gender identity at a fairly early age. Gender differences can be seen in a matter of months after birth.
Fantastic stuff. I mean, there's absolutely no downside to this decision.
It will be interesting to see how her classmates, especially the girls, react and deal with the change. I imagine the tranistion would go quite a bit smoother if done between years.
I really hope there's a follow up article at some point.
It will be interesting to see how her classmates, especially the girls, react and deal with the change. I imagine the tranistion would go quite a bit smoother if done between years.
I really hope there's a follow up article at some point.
krameriffic
Member
I don't think 3rd graders know what ethics are (or is it is?)
CornBurrito
Member
Have you ever read any studies on gender identity?
You do know there are legitimate brain differences between cis and trans individuals, right?
Why is the brain less valid than the body?
I don't agree with this. They are certainly socially relevant - important - when they are made so, from children's dress to playing styles to interactional style and so forth, with male children (at least in the United States) facing much more pressure not to behave "like girls" than girls face (at least before puberty) not to behave like boys. I agree that this pressure does not occur as often or as strongly from one's peers at this age, who as you say can possess some gender blindness, but adults tend to be the ones who socialize and directly pressure kids to behave in gender appropriate ways.
So given that gender is something that is socially defined, that kids are socialized into from infancy, it does not make sense that you would say that kids will be themselves without defining whether they are a boy or girl. How many little kids do you know who don't define themselves as a boy or a girl? And with the social and performative aspects of gender (which Stumples actually linked to in this post in Squiddy's topic), where we define our identities in relation to others' reactions to our social performances, I find it hard to buy this notion that children do this.
Even in your example, you seem to be describing whether you recall categorizing your friends on the basis of gender in early childhood, and not whether they were defining themselves in terms of gender.
They do. They have passed the stage of egocentric thought and understand the concepts of empathy and intention.
An example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_saxe_how_brains_make_moral_judgments.html
read the op
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think that is the funniest (saddest) part of all of this. A lot of people here don't trust this kid to know what she is but they feel totally capable in telling her who she is.
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The Everyman
most of the discussion has been focused on whether or not you can really know your gender identity at that age and what gender identity really means.
i dont think even a single person has said flat out that the child is and should forever be a man.
The Return of
Banned
Well best of luck to her, kids can be mean
BadAss2961
Member
No.
I'm not sure... Why? Because the brain differences can't apply to all cis and trans individuals.
Tons of people who read the OP will still come away with that reaction. Maybe most people.
CornBurrito
Member
Scientific studies? Wat?!
Team of doctors? Wat?!
Yeah maybe you should, before going "lol its just an opinion."
Young Earth Creationism is an opinion too. One that shouldn't be respected.
There are statistically significant differences in mean sizes of certain brain regions. Off the top of my hand I can think of the BNST (bed nucleus of the stria terminals).
out0v0rder
Member
this is true, some kids just have a handle on their shiet. we should let em work in factories to get a headstart on entering the workplace.
Devolution
Member
The reverse happened in my case. Adults didn't care. Girls (my peers) thought there was something wrong with me. So this isn't completely true at least for me either.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Great news.
Also, got to ignore the ignorance as always.
Also, got to ignore the ignorance as always.
The Return of
Banned
You probably kept baiting them and they kept ending up in detention
What does this even mean?
IHaveCandy
Banned
I don't understand why somebody who feels they are of a different gender is compelled to attire themselves in a typical way of that gender. If a male develops and has the brain chemistry of a woman, I understand how that may be uncommon but possible. What I don't get is why that male then is apparently compelled to wear what women typically wear. A lot of women's wear is partially due to function, and not just form. And things that deal with just form should be things anybody should be able to wear regardless of whatever gender they recognize themselves under.
So basically, what I'm asking is why do I not ever see or hear about a transgendered person that decides to wear what they like to wear instead of what their gender categorizes them to wear? Why does a male with the mind of a female feel compelled to dress himself/herself as a typical female?
So basically, what I'm asking is why do I not ever see or hear about a transgendered person that decides to wear what they like to wear instead of what their gender categorizes them to wear? Why does a male with the mind of a female feel compelled to dress himself/herself as a typical female?
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