Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Jesus, that child is going to get torn apart come high school.
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Transgender 3rd Grader will be allowed to go to school as a girl
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CornBurrito
Member
Hey at least I kept the avatar.
fair enough. I like Kolff though. Liked Borlaug too (and I'll bring him back for Christmas probably since I have the Santa version already) but it was just time for a change.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Devolution
Member
It's not needless. Many have gone on to say children are just doing it for attention. This kind of wanton hand waving of real issues is part of the problem.
I'm not hostile or annoyed, but when I asked the same question earlier, why couldn't you just have said that then?
I did. If it matters to anyone.
Not doubting this family's decisions or tryng to read someone else's mind, but I definitely went through a time period where I wanted to be a gilr and I'm most certainly not gender confused or questioning as an adult. I do wholly respect that some people are in the wrong body and encourage them to fix it, but... you get it.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
the post he was quoting was pretty tame and that's who it's directed at.
BadAss2961
Member
Is this really it? That's nothing more than what I expected. It's not that I don't believe this evidence to be true, because it does make sense. But that wasn't my argument... I clearly said that not all transgendered people have these differences, and a couple of you jumped all over that.
You can't honestly believe that everyone's behavior can be explained by suggested evidence.
because you asked about transgender people and CornBurrito was making a statement about homosexuality. They're distinct. We don't truly have a cause pinpointed for transgender people.
Dang it you beat me to the edit. Yeah, just reread. Sorry.
IHaveCandy
Banned
What exactly are you trying to accomplish by finding the exception to the rule?
No problem, figured you misread.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Another douchey bump by me!
BadAss2961
Member
Do you believe that all trans people have these differences in their brain?
CornBurrito
Member
No that's not really it. I don't have the dedication to dig out every study done in the last 30+ years for you.
Can you answer a question without asking a question?
And I don't know. I haven't looked at the brains all trans and cis individuals. Current research suggests there is a difference. There are biological differences between men and women. Outliers exist but what's the point of bringing out those outliers?
I'm not going to make the positive claim that not all of them have the difference without evidence. "It is common sense" isn't evidence.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I don't know.
Devolution
Member
She's probably exasperated at the thread thus far and generally making a statement towards the general ignorance about hormone blockers which is not forcing anything. It's a delay to ensure that the choice made is the right one for that individual. It is getting old how it's okay to force the current physical nature of the person despite recognizing that trans people exist and would have loved to transition earlier. Then when these individuals are given the chance people think they're just attention whoring. It's wrong and at worst it's insulting to the trans people who post here. People wonder why many don't post outside of transgaf or are seemingly hostile in threads, SO many posts are a direct insult to their very existence without people even realizing it. I doubt if they could have transitioned as young individuals it would be for attention or even something they'd regret. Still people come to the conclusion that these individuals are just confused, into some fad or just plain crazy. It's really tiring to witness and it's the reason so many get snappy.
No one who is Cis or Straight questions their own orientation or gender to such a high degree, you just are who you are right? Then why is it so hard to accept the same for others?
No one is going to touch that. Maybe I shouldn't either.
Here, have some recent articles on that exact topic that might interest you:
http://gawker.com/5941037/born-this...for-those-who--want-to-have-sex-with-children
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...od_sexual_abuse_how_to_treat_pedophilia_.html
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The Everyman
fair enough, but i could tell from his wording ("I am not a fan of people making this choice for him at this point") that as offensive as you might find his opinion he was at least trying to approach the subject cautiously.
i can understand your frustration though.
Pedophilia is different than transgender people or sexual orientation, etc. It's a paraphilia which means it IS a mental illness. But that doesn't absolve you from RESPONSIBILITY. Take kleptomania for example. Kleptomania is a recognized disorder where an individual is compelled to take things. But they can still be arrested tried and convicted for theft or burglary or other related crimes. Or say a mother has Münchausen syndrome by proxy and is causing their child to be sick by poisoning them with something. Do you think they get off in those situations? Some do, most don't. Pedophiles who don't act on their desires should absolutely be treated by the psychiatric community. Those that act on them should face teh full weight of the legal system.
IHaveCandy
Banned
It's a shame how taboo of a topic it is. I really do feel sympathy for anybody born with that sort of brain chemistry that truly understands why it is wrong and wishes they were different. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where we distinguish pedophiles as either criminals or victims based on what they do.
IHaveCandy
Banned
What separates something from being a mental illness instead of a natural sexual orientation? I understand that, for very obvious reasons, pedophilia is not considered acceptable in our society and homosexuality is. I mean more in regards in the medical term. What about the brain chemistry of a pedophile is categorically different than a homosexual person? Is it considered an illness specifically because of the fact that the acts that are followed with this condition are illegal and something 99.9% of the population would agree is wrong?
I linked you to Wikipedia's article on paraphilia for a reason, it answers most of your questions.
BadAss2961
Member
I can believe the study you linked makes sense if that opposite trait (male/female) is found in the brain of a transgendered person. But to believe there is even a chance that every transgendered person shares these traits, I think is crazy.
Which brings me back to the topic. We have no idea if this kid has this trait or not. I'd be just as right to think that maybe he doesn't as you would be to assume that he does.
Why does it matter if she has any particular trait or not?
She's seen a psychologist, who I presume is reasonably confident that she is who she says she is, and that she isn't just making it up for whatever reason.
I think that's all that really matters. She's been evaluated by an actual professional, and not just the armchair ones on GAF. What more do you want?
Are you disagreeing with this research? Show us the research you have done.
IHaveCandy
Banned
From what I gathered about the parts that related to my questions, it sounds like paraphilia generally regards to sexual traits that are not entirely brought up by genetics or brain chemistry. It sounds like somebody would make the argument that pedophilia is a condition brought out by the pedophile either by his/her own actions or acts done to himself/herself. This sounds like the same argument that was used against homosexuality for some time. I'm glad to read that the medical community is not in agreement of the use of paraphilias. With neuroscience being where it is today, I hope a closer look is taken to pedophiles. Hopefully there is some way of treatment. If I were a pedophile, I think I would love for there to be some sort of hormonal treatment option to alter my arousals.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
It is ridiculous, im amazed the parents are okay with this.
No, I think you're missing that paraphilias are generally non-consensual and inherently harmful. That is, desire for sex with a child (and following through with that desire to any degree) is inherently destructive and harmful. Whereas gay people can and do form normal consensual adult relationships.
Pedophiles by contrast tend to have their victims "age out" which causes them to move onto new victims.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
It would be more amazing if the parents werent okay with this.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I understand that part, and addressed it earlier. I don't think that should really act as any sort of categorical divider from a medical standpoint.
BadAss2961
Member
Read that again, please.
From a psychiatric stand point that's a CRUCIAL distinction. Its like saying that cancer cells are just as good as normal healthy cells because they both grow.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
How so? The child is what, 8/9 years old? Just doesnt seem normal. Wait untill the kid is old enough to make that decision. Thats just not the age to do it.
The kid clearly *is* old enough to make that decision, because it *is* the decision she has made. She has been evaluated by an actual professional.
There are no irreversible changes at this point, since she doesn't seem to be on puberty blockers quite yet. Why not let her do what she wants for now?
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
I havent read much into this case so i dont know the circumstances. I just dont think its a great idea at that age. I wouldnt let my child make that decision at such a young age.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Even with psychologists and specialists are saying it's the right thing to do?
CornBurrito
Member
Oh no! Wearing girl clothes is such an extreme decision!!!
I hope if you have a daughter you don't freak out if she wants to dress like a boy.
Don't bait them with logic.
Shouta
Member
I agree that it still occurs but the pressure a child faces from their own peer group is one of the largest. Children do possess a certain amount of gender blindness but that's often lost as we adults tend to foster gender roles early into children. I think the longer we allow that gender blindness to exist, the less rigid and more accepting children will become.
I should probably have said that the kids I knew didn't define everything about themselves as a boy or a girl rather than not at all. I can't really say kids don't use gender as a component in establishing an identity but I think kids very much also identify themselves less in the rigid scheme that we use as we get older. Children will do things that we establish as not part of their gender, such as the "behave like girls" point you said above, until we point it out to them that they shouldn't. It's not an uncommon thing to see a boy interested in typically "girl" things and a girl to be interested in "boy" things as a child, right?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think children don't see gender the way we adults do. We see it as dress a certain style, behave this way, like these things, etc but I think most kids at that age tend to simply see it as a matter of fact. They see it as a difference but don't automatically attribute qualities to it right away. I don't see the need to push the change right away. let it flourish a bit and foster the change little by little then when they are more ready for it, really enact the changes.
Granted, I don't really know the exact details of the situation for the parents. It sounds like it's been a general improvement in behavior and the like at school according to the post yeoz linked to so perhaps it was the best choice. A slower, more idealistic approach is less likely to be effective in a larger setting and it seems it's helped the child to be more comfortable so.
Yeah, I kind of realized it after I posted it. I can't really think of a proper example off the top of my head.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Well it is an extreme decision? Im glad Openminded-Gaf is here in full force but im not so sure i feel the same way. If my daughter did decide to wear boys clothes and transition into a boy naturally that would be freak out worthy.
Edit: My views on this are going to be considered controversial in here. This conversation will only go badly from this point. Im out of this thread. Hope the child leads a happy and healthy life.
[Clark Gable]
Banned
Society is going crazy.
There's a huge difference between wishing you are a girl and knowing you aren't a boy.
There was no logic there. You're arguing principles.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
ill be honest.. i would freak out if i found out my child felt this way. For totally different reasons than you would, im sure.
On the contrary, we have an excellent idea. That she identifies as a girl and wants others to identify her as such is strong evidence that she has whatever cluster of traits make up a transgender individual.
No. Lack of absolute certainty is not the same as a 50/50 proposition.
To illustrate the difference, let's take an extreme example:
I buy a lottery ticket. The lottery happens tomorrow, so I'm not sure yet whether the ticket is a winning one or not. Maybe it'll hit the jackpot, maybe it'll be worth nothing.
My brother tells me it's worthless. I think it's a winning ticket. Is it fair to say that I'm just as right as my brother?
IHaveCandy
Banned
Oh dear. I've just realized how creepy my continual discussion of pedophilia looks with my username.
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