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[JonathanPower]

Lol and you take the comments seriously? Really? I bet you believed Nintendo when it said they were focusing on Wii and the DS and then boom, 3DS and Wii U revealed. Come on man.

LOL and you pretend to be more reliable then someone who work for Sony ? It's funny how your only argumentation is "but Nintendo did it so Sony will do the same" when historically Sony had never rushed out a single console before...

 

[JonathanPower]

Despite what Nintendo said they were very much competing for the same dollar that the other two were and Nintendo won. Last gen Sony won despite having the weakest hardware. The gen before that Sony won with the PS1 despite not being as powerful as the N64. Oh and the DS won over the PSP.

No they are not, they are only in the case you are talking about Kinect. This is why Nintendo was able to make such great sales, Nintendo was able to sell the Wii to people that normally are not interested in traditional console games and that normally would not buy a PS3 or an Xbox360.

 

[JonathanPower]

Would increased power be enough to drive consumer adoption of a PS4 or 360?

Exactly, what i think is that the increase in power should be so great, like CG quality great, in order to be able to really push the consumer to jump on the ps4 or the xbox next, because the xbox360 and ps3 produce very amazing visuals today. Also, we need innovations like a mini touch screen on the controller to be able to interact fast with the inventory of a game, just to make an example...

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Also, we need innovations like a mini touch screen on the controller to be able to interact fast with the inventory of a game, just to make an example...

Uhhhhh.....

 

[shinra-bansho]

Exactly, what i think is that the increase in power should be so great, like CG quality great, in order to be able to really push the consumer to jump on the ps4 or the xbox next

The diminishing returns from hardware coupled with increasing development costs associated with generational shifts would make that unfeasible.

Which is why, while the enthusiast gamer may be ready for a new generation, I'm not sure a 2013 PS4 or XBOX3 is going to resonate with the general consumer if they rely on power.

I just can't see them producing an affordable product that will provide a clear tangible leap in visual and physical fidelity to move the masses.

Although, an XBOX3 may rely on Kinect 2 anyway to provide a generational distinction.

 

[JonathanPower]

The diminishing returns from hardware coupled with increasing development costs associated with generational shifts would make that unfeasible.

Which is why, while the enthusiast gamer may be ready for a new generation, I'm not sure a 2013 PS4 or XBOX3 is going to resonate with the general consumer if they rely on power.

I just can't see them producing an affordable product that will provide a clear tangible leap in visual and physical fidelity to move the masses.

Although, an XBOX3 may rely on Kinect 2 anyway to provide a generational distinction.

I Agree with this, this is why i think that only with a 2015 Xbox3 or PS4 there would be a clear tangible leap in visual and physical fidelity to move the masses...

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The diminishing returns from hardware coupled with increasing development costs associated with generational shifts would make that unfeasible.

Which is why, while the enthusiast gamer may be ready for a new generation, I'm not sure a 2013 PS4 or XBOX3 is going to resonate with the general consumer if they rely on power.

I just can't see them producing an affordable product that will provide a clear tangible leap in visual and physical fidelity to move the masses.

Although, an XBOX3 may rely on Kinect 2 anyway to provide a generational distinction.

Diminishing returns has a lot to do with resolutions. This gen is the perfect example of that. We've gone from games that looked like PS2/Xbox games to getting Crysis on PS3/360. People tend to forget that all of that power was negated by three to six times the number of pixels. If develops stick with 720p again next gen, we should see a nice jump. Let's not forget that Epic are aiming for "Avatar like graphics" and AMD said the next Xbox would do it. I understand there's a lot of PR talk and hype here, but graphics can and will get much, much better.

As far as development costs go, we're seeing the rise of indie games right now which are made at a low budget and some of them look really good. It's entirely possible to release AAA games at a reasonable budget now.

As far as price of hardware goes, you don't need a really expensive box to get a good boost. IGN built a mock Wii U for approx $450. It was capable of running most third party PS3/360 games with better graphics and at 1080p IIRC. That was with an unoptimized system and with off the shelf parts. There's no reason the price shouldn't come down and we see a good bump from beyond the prototype they built. I honestly don't think a $300 box would be out of the realm of possibility if it weren't for the controllers Nintendo and Microsoft are bundling.

 

[JonathanPower]

Diminishing returns has a lot to do with resolutions. This gen is the perfect example of that. We've gone from games that looked like PS2/Xbox games to getting Crysis on PS3/360. People tend to forget that all of that power was negated by three to six times the number of pixels. If develops stick with 720p again next gen, we should see a nice jump. Let's not forget that Epic are aiming for "Avatar like graphics" and AMD said the next Xbox would do it. I understand there's a lot of PR talk and hype here, but graphics can and will get much, much better.

As far as development costs go, we're seeing the rise of indie games right now which are made at a low budget and some of them look really good. It's entirely possible to release AAA games at a reasonable budget now.

As far as price of hardware goes, you don't need a really expensive box to get a good boost. IGN built a mock Wii U for approx $450. It was capable of running most third party PS3/360 games with better graphics and at 1080p IIRC. That was with an unoptimized system and with off the shelf parts. There's no reason the price shouldn't come down and we see a good bump from beyond the prototype they built. I honestly don't think a $300 box would be out of the realm of possibility if it weren't for the controllers Nintendo and Microsoft are bundling.

Well, I don't really like current gen tech, if we think about it the modern ATI GPUs are just more powerful versions of the same R600 tech in the xbox360 GPU with just some additional features, for the next xbox I hope to see a totally new GPU architecture...

 

[Parmenides]

Certain things may slip under the radar and go unnoticed

-While shipment figures can be misleading in the short-term, the PS3 is the most shipped console during the last biennium (this is a significant amount of time), despite its terrible performance in the largest video game market in the world.

(Unit: Million)

    
      Global Shipments              US NPD

        (2010+2011)                (2010+2011)                                 
                                                                         

PS3   28.5   (14.4 + 14.1)        8.8  (4.3 + 4.5)                                      

Wii   27.52  (17.2 + 10.32)       11.6 (7.1 + 4.5)      

360   27.0   (12.1 + 14.9)        14.1 (6.8 + 7.3)

That means the long-term effects of the PS3 price cuts outside America resemble those found in previous PlayStation consoles.Sony has good reasons to think that the PS3 is going to be huge in the rest of the world, particularly in the PAL markets, where the console hasn't even turned five years-old yet or reached key price points.Sony is in a great position to offset partially the inevitable sales decline in the mature markets.And there's no more mature market in this console cycle than the US video game market.



-After losing billions of dollars, the PlayStation business has been making money since October 2009.

The game business has recorded a profit for the last three quarters in a row

(July 30, 2010)

Sony F1Q10 Earnings Call Transcript (Seeking Alpha)


Its flagship console has good momentum,good hardware sales and the most important thing: strong software sales.The next step is to make the PS3 more affordable and earn more money.The guys who said 249 instead of 199 several months ago aren't willing to launch or show a new shiny box anytime soon:extract profits from the PS3 and raise the new born baby PS Vita are Sony's top priorities for now.

At some point the PS3 will become a budget console, targeted to kids,casual gamers and the emerging markets: then Sony will be ready. So, it'll be FY 2014/15. They will not arrive significantly later than Microsoft. If Sony has a good product reasonably priced, it will sell well. Having said that,America may be a lost cause for Sony.

 

[StevieP]

Well, I don't really like current gen tech, if we think about it the modern ATI GPUs are just more powerful versions of the same R600 tech in the xbox360 GPU with just some additional features, for the next xbox I hope to see a totally new GPU architecture...

Only in your dreams.

Let's not forget that Epic are aiming for "Avatar like graphics" and AMD said the next Xbox would do it. I understand there's a lot of PR talk and hype here, but graphics can and will get much, much better.

Only in your dreams. lol

 

[Deadstar]

Avatar graphics, etc

How can the next Xbox do avatar quality graphics when the pc can't right now?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Only in your dreams. lol

Obviously they won't be able to achieve that, but I'm glad they're setting the bar high. My point was that the deminishing returns comment Nintendo made when trying to justify Wii's lack of power have clearly been proven wrong.

 

[Deadstar]

Obviously they won't be able to achieve that, but I'm glad they're setting the bar high. My point was that the deminishing returns comment Nintendo made when trying to justify Wii's lack of power have clearly been proven wrong.

The diminishing returns quote is ridiculous. There won't be diminishing returns until we have lifelike graphics in video games.Sure it will take decades but we will get there. Anyone who thinks that graphics and technology is starting to show diminishing returns needs to set the bar higher because we're just getting started.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The diminishing returns quote is ridiculous. There won't be diminishing returns until we have lifelike graphics in video games.Sure it will take decades but we will get there. Anyone who thinks that graphics and technology is starting to show diminishing returns needs to set the bar higher because we're just getting started.

People need to stop using that argument. If PS4 goes SoC it will have tech that we've never seen applied to console gaming before. The only question is if Sony goes for cost/efficiency or reaches for stars. The talk of 8K resolution and 300 fps get's my hopes pretty high though. Maybe we can finally get 1080p and 60 fps as a standard w/PS4.

 

[StevieP]

People need to stop using that argument. If PS4 goes SoC it will have tech that we've never seen applied to console gaming before. The only question is if Sony goes for cost/efficiency or reaches for stars. The talk of 8K resolution and 300 fps get's my hopes pretty high though. Maybe we can finally get 1080p and 60 fps as a standard w/PS4.

There are tons of games on the PS3 that are 1080p. What you put on the screen is up to the developer, and many chose near-SD resolutions this gen. They will do the same next gen.

And generally, when you talk about a System-on-a-Chip you're not talking raw power. 8K 300fps just means you weren't paying attention to Sony pre-PS3 launch.

My point was that the deminishing returns comment Nintendo made when trying to justify Wii's lack of power have clearly been proven wrong.

I think the "focusing on power doesn't necessarily yield the best results" thing is the one that's been proven right over and over again. Both by Sony and Nintendo.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

There are tons of games on the PS3 that are 1080p. What you put on the screen is up to the developer, and many chose near-SD resolutions this gen. They will do the same next gen.

And generally, when you talk about a System-on-a-Chip you're not talking raw power. 8K 300fps just means you weren't paying attention to Sony pre-PS3 launch.



I think the "focusing on power doesn't necessarily yield the best results" thing is the one that's been proven right over and over again. Both by Sony and Nintendo.

What I'm saying is that Sony appears to be setting the bar high. Perhaps I'm just buying into the PR hype, but looking at Vita and looking at 3DS it's pretty clear Sony are aiming quite a bit higher in the graphics dept.

I agree that focusing on power alone is no longer enough, but you shouldn't completely exclude one from another. We can have both. I think Sony has the right idea with Vita and I'd like to see Move, a DS4 and something else like 3D or head tracking bundled in w/PS4.

 

[StevieP]

What I'm saying is that Sony appears to be setting the bar high. Perhaps I'm just buying into the PR hype, but looking at Vita and looking at 3DS it's pretty clear Sony are aiming quite a bit higher in the graphics dept.

I agree that focusing on power alone is no longer enough, but you shouldn't completely exclude one from another. We can have both. I think Sony has the right idea with Vita and I'd like to see Move, a DS4 and something else like 3D or head tracking bundled in w/PS4.

3DS is Nintendo upping a generation from their previous handheld. Vita is the same. It is also a more "modest" Sony, not crazy Sony. Using mature tech (i.e. mobile parts that matured a few years back as opposed to being bleeding-edge) to create a cohesive, non-bank-breaking piece of sexyness sold at a slight loss. They'll probably go the same way - and they should - with the PS4.

Throwing in head tracking and such will just drive another situation where either they eat $300/box to get a modest launch price (they can't afford it) or they make another colossal pricing mistake (they can't afford more mindshare loss either). Alternatively, they skimp on the hardware BOM, which nobody here wants.

 

[GlamFM]

AMD Building Graphics for PS4?

Sounds like 2013 to me.

I still think the new hardware will be announced at this years e3.