She didn't just murder them though, she obliterated the entire Sept with everyone in it with Wildfire. You could make a reasonable argument that the entire city is to busy shitting bricks to riot after watching that.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
She didn't just murder them though, she obliterated the entire Sept with everyone in it with Wildfire. You could make a reasonable argument that the entire city is to busy shitting bricks to riot after watching that.
It certainly is but there are reasons why it happens in the real world.
A tyrant may convince people that a certain religion or ethnicity is comprised of evildoers, or that their lack of faith in a religion is the source of their woes.
They may use a large military force to threaten violence upon the masses.
They may use the economy to their advantage, imposing unreasonable taxes or creating a giant disparity between the wealthy and the poor.
All of these forces exist in some variation in this world, but Cersei shouldn't have any of them. If these things were cards, her hand would be empty. The very fact that she created a theocracy that took over the city's peace-keeping initiative, then destroyed it, should tell you how broken King's Landing should be right now.
King's Landing should look about like one of those cities where there are acts of violence every day and burnt out buildings everywhere.
Arya murdered Walder Frey, impersonated him for two weeks so no one would know, and gathered every other Frey to kill them. Vengeance is her driving force. But she doesn't want to go to Winterfell because she thinks the Boltons are there. Why doesn't she want revenge on the other family who betrayed Robb and Cat and stole her childhood home?
Walder's wife: "Wait...who have I been having sex with for the past 2 weeks?"
More like "This is weird... he hasn't raped or beaten me for two weeks now... what's he planning... >_<"
Which would be something the show should show, in order to ground things, to explain the why and how, to give the impression there's a real consistent world out there.
But they don't care, they're too busy thinking about all the rape slave fantasies they should be writing instead.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
If the show had the luxury of 2 more books to adapt from its pretty clear there would be less "plot holes". Even regardless, I doubt this entire ensemble wanted to hang around for 10+ seasons anyway; this is just the nature of TV. Things needed to slim down at some point.
Ok so apparently it's a plot hole that Jaime was not king, what would D&D have done with that? It does nothing but provide a middling plot which would eventually have to lead to where we are now anyways, in order for Jaime to turn on Cersei. How was D&D supposed to know that George wouldn't have finished his series way back when the show was establishing the world's logic?
When y'all nitpick the minute details of show logic it just seems so pointless, because it disregards that so many logistical factors (of running the biggest show in the world) dictate that the writing is the way it is because it needs to end.
Ok so apparently it's a plot hole that Jaime was not king, what would D&D have done with that? It does nothing but provide a middling plot which would eventually have to lead to where we are now anyways, in order for Jaime to turn on Cersei. How was D&D supposed to know that George wouldn't have finished his series way back when the show was establishing the world's logic?
When y'all nitpick the minute details of show logic it just seems so pointless, because it disregards that so many logistical factors (of running the biggest show in the world) dictate that the writing is the way it is because it needs to end.
Arya's not afraid of the Boltons. Nor was she disinterested in killing them. She just didn't see north as a priority over south.
That's simple routing. If she intended to ultimately stay in the north, might as well finish off your business in the south, then head north to kill the Boltons and then hang up your sword there.
Anyway her Cersei vendetta was obviously stronger than her Bolton vendetta. Girl watched Cersei behead her father in front of her. She never even met a Bolton.
That's simple routing. If she intended to ultimately stay in the north, might as well finish off your business in the south, then head north to kill the Boltons and then hang up your sword there.
Anyway her Cersei vendetta was obviously stronger than her Bolton vendetta. Girl watched Cersei behead her father in front of her. She never even met a Bolton.
No it's not. They could have written the scenes necessary to make Cersei becoming queen work. Just as they could have have with Davos turning from Stannis to UnJon. A scene addressing Jaime's reaction to Cersei fucking Lancel. And so on. With care, thought and talent they could have made these and most everything else fit.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
No, not necessarily. Do you guys even understand that they begin working on plots and scripts years prior to when a season releases? Making GoT is a year-round production. They are working on props and set pieces for next season as we speak, assuredly. For instance, they already decided on Sansa marrying Ramsay back around Season 2 if I recall, because they didn't have the luxury of waiting for more of her plot and casting/wasting screen time on a minor character like Jeyne. (note: in no way am I defending the rape scene)
I'm not saying every show decision can be excused away, but rather arguing that the major plot-beats of the show are the way they are because of limits beyond just D&Ds control. What they do with certain plots within a season (Dorne, Arya in Bravos, some of the North shit last year) is more up for debate.
Didn't she say "Why would I go to Winterfell, the Boltons have it?"
They've known where the story is going for a decade. If they can't construct a plot even with a blueprint, that's on them.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
That's not true. They were told pretty much bullet points back in 2013 I believe. Going from adapting novels with up to 1000 pages to having to fill in the blanks with just bullet points is no easy task.
Yes necessarily. Nothing you've said constitutes an argument against them having been able to do the things which could have made what sit as terrible inconsistencies work. It doesn't matter when they write something, what matters is their ability and care to make what they write credible. And the scripts are written after the previous season ended.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Scripts are written after a season sure, but they need to plan years in advance all the plot beats of the show. You can't film a show like this by only deciding the story months prior.
You never underestimate Walder Frey.
WrenchNinja
Member
Was reading this forbes contributor article, agree with some of it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...ame-of-thrones-after-last-nights-episode/amp/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...ame-of-thrones-after-last-nights-episode/amp/
I thought Martin told them the bullet points back when they met years ago before the show even started. Do we know for sure? But regardless, they've had at least four years. Is it hard to write? Of course! But it's still on them to make sure the plot progression make sense and the characters stay true to who they are.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
But you can write a script that doesn't leave major plot holes. Like a scene where Jaime and Cersei talk about Lancel. You don't need to plan that three years in advance. Or a scene between the remaining forces of influence and power in KL, like the gold cloaks and faith, discussing and accepting they have no hand to play against Cersei.
The only reason they couldn't make their show make sense is because they lack the will or talent.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Individual scenes can certainly be better in the show, like all of Mark Mylod's shit from last year.
As for taking up time to explain away logic that was never very clearly defined in the show to begin with, I hardly see cause to be upset. And I don't think Jaimie not talking to Lancel is as big of a plot hole as you think it is.
Weird. I just assumed they knew where they were going from the beginning.
Plot hole, perhaps not, bad writing? Absolutely. Look at how stagnant Jaime has been for three seasons. It's pitiful.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Her order of vengeance is Freys > Cersei > Boltons?
Makes sense but that's not what she said. "Why would I go to Winterfell, the Boltons are there" implies that she's not going to Winterfell and doesn't care about the Boltons.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
I totally agree. I think it's in service so they can save his "redemption/anti-Cersei" arc for the last season. Since they never included the valonqar prophecy, they want to play him killing Cersei as a big surprise.
Ocarina_117
Banned
I really want to share Stannis' peach monologue in the show only thread to show there is a fantastic multi-faceted character there.
I also don't want to be hounded at by a few over-sensitive posters.
I also don't want to be hounded at by a few over-sensitive posters.
Probably, I also think that's a poor decision, as the lack of foreshadowing and internal character conflict actually cheapens the moment.
They don't like being made privy to the lack of nuance in that thread. That's why the thread sort of exists. Just leave em to it, it's not a big deal really.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
But she said that in the context of going there to go home, not to kill Boltons.
That's how I interpreted it. Hot Pie doesn't know what her mission is.
Watch that they made it that size just so it can match the size of Drogon's head, or hell, have Drogon be bigger. The driving force behind Dany is almost entirely an appeal to "badassery" now.
There is no indication that she wants revenge on the Boltons and she explicitly says she's not going to Winterfell because they're there. We can make up whatever motives we want but none of that is in the show.
And it creates a clash with the vengeance-fueled persona Arya has developed.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The context of her conversation with Hot Pie is about life in general. If she started going off about reversing course to go to Winterfell to kill Boltons then her cover is blown.
Sure, I understand that she's not going to tell Hot Pie her plans to murder. But there's no indication in the show that she wants to kill the Boltons. None at all. That doesn't make any sense in the context of her character.
Did she ever add them to her list in the show? If they forgot to do that, I can see them just dropping that line of vengeance because they're already dead and it's an easy out to just not bring them into her list at all.
The source of power, from what it derives, was very explored and defined in the first few seasons. It disappeared and became whatever random nonsense the show made up at any given time at some later point. When Cersei took the throne it wasn't just book readers saying "wait what, she blew them up so now she's just queen?" It was everyone. Because the world they created Cersei blowing up the sept doesn't simply constitute her becoming queen, but that's what they gave us.
Never addressing Jaime's reaction to Cersei being publically trialled for fucking Lancel and having those two continue on their relationship as nothing ever happened was gaping.
From a little research just now, it doesn't seem like the Boltons were on her list. But Melisandre, Beric, and Thoros are. DUH DUH DUUUUH!
If she runs into Beric and Thoros and tries to kill them, I'd actually root for her to be the one that ends up dead in that scenario.
adamsappel
Member
"Bullet Points" gets thrown around as if that's exactly how GRRM presented them.
- Shireen gets burned alive
- Jon gets resurrected
- Hodor = Hold The Door
The Artisan
Member
this is all expected and sensible, but the approach that they would've taken that would've subverted expectations is have them look similar to how they've described in the books; the way you described, the elves of asoiaf. i think that would've been a better play on the audience, where we see something that looks benevolent and threatening at the same time so you know you're not supposed to root for them even though they don't look all that menacing, in the deepest and most accurate definition of the word. na mean?
that thing is not "cute", my friend.
but there are no female wws.
are there?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
In the book
One of the Starks who was a Lord Commander of the Night Watch left to be with a women who had extremely pale skin and blue eyes. Basically, a White Walker. Whether that Stark is now the NIght King, or that White Walker gave birth to the White Walker is unknown.
So there is *A* female White Walker in the books, if the tale of that Stark is true.
The Artisan
Member
this shit is never explored in the show, man. this is interesting. it's not too late though, bran might see more visions that could bring this scene to light too
The show is too busy showing us eunuchs fucking to waste time with that shit.
The Artisan
Member
Ocarina_117
Banned
To be fair to the show writers, world building and lore would be difficult to expand on in just 10 episodes per season.
There's a lore series released on each seasons blu ray which does a fantastic job. They're viewable on YouTube I believe.
Though it's no substitute for reading the books.
There's a lore series released on each seasons blu ray which does a fantastic job. They're viewable on YouTube I believe.
Though it's no substitute for reading the books.
This is a crazy thing to be caught on. The only implication is that she's blowing off Hot Pie.
Also she's rejecting his premise that Winterfell is home for her. Because she doesn't know about Jon and Sansa.
DarkJediKnight
Member
I agree. I think the show will end with Gendry returning and Mel and Davos can vouch for his royal blood.
Whomever is the ruler will legitimize him. He will almost certainly marry Arya and take Stormlands as a Baratheon to continue the line.