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Vatican clarifies Pope's statement: Atheists are still going to hell

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C

Colonel Mustard

Banned
akira28 said:
I think atheists should seize upon this and press the issue.

It's guaranteed to be interesting.
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I don't speak for all atheists, but I don't give a shit about either statement. At the end of the day, heaven, hell, god, etc don't exist. Why does it matter? Press the issue to make the church look backwards and stupid? They do a good enough job of doing that themselves.
 
N

Nilaul

Member
So if a person doesnt believe in God, but lives a holly life. Meaning he helps the poor, helps the sick etc. he is still going to hell? I thought god would forgive.
 
I

Ithil

Member
So the Pope is reasonable and humane about something, then the Vatican rushes to clarify that they're still judgmental and doom and gloom?
 
A

akira28

Member
Colonel Mustard said:
I don't speak for all atheists, but I don't give a shit about either statement. At the end of the day, heaven, hell, god, etc don't exist. Why does it matter? Press the issue to make the church look backwards and stupid? They do a good enough job of doing that themselves.
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No. Press the issue to help them come to terms with atheists and atheism. Pull the filter off that lens.
 
T

threetri333

Banned
I wonder, does anyone have information on the number of Catholics/Christians and other religions on now compared to the past. I wonder if more or less have faith.
 
G

gurudyne

Member
Nilaul said:
So if a person doesnt believe in God, but lives a holly life. Meaning he helps the poor, helps the sick etc. he is still going to hell? I thought god would forgive.
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There used to be a Limbo for 'moral but unsaved souls' until that Vatican nixed it recently. Budget cuts. That or they must have thought the atheists/non-Catholics were getting off too light.
 
I

Ikael

Member
jaxword said:
So you're saying that this priest doesn't represent Catholics?
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Obviously? Why would we have a Pope otherwise if a random guy from the Vatican press department could "represent Catholics" just like that?

I mean, the guy even contradicts himself on his complete statement:

The Rev. Thomas Rosica, a spokesman for the Vatican, said those who have knowledge of the Catholic Church “cannot be saved” if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her,” CNN reported. He also said that “every man or woman, whatever their situation, can be saved. Even non-Christians can respond to this saving action of the Spirit. No person is excluded from salvation simply because of so-called original sin.”
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He was either weirdly quoted, or drunk.
 
I

ISOM

Member
His comments is all just a ruse to keep people in the catholic church. The less people that believe they have to be a faithful catholic the less money the vatican sees. It's all about money in the end which is why he said it.
 
P

PsionBolt

Member
Papal infalibility sounds so cool. I mean, there's no way it's really absolute - no way they would go along with it if a modern Pope decided we needed another crusade, or if he tried to dismantle the whole religion or something. But still, it's a cool concept. They should invoke it more often.
 
A

ArjanN

Member
espresso said:
Indeed it will. Unfortunately for unbelievers, at that point it will be too late.

Allow me to quote scripture:

Luke 16:20-26

And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom.

And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.

And Abraham said to him:
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Just because something was written down a long ago doesn't make it true. And that reads like just a metaphor telling people not to act like dicks anyway.
 
W

waypoetic

Banned
No. I'm going to shut off when i die. You know. Cease to exist. Finito! POFF! Well okay not "poff" as i'm not a magician (wtf magic is stupid) but i'll be gone, my mind and everything of that sort will be shut off.

That's how the story ends for all of us.

Question is: will i get to nail Catwoman first in that outfit before any of you guys?
 
T

toddhunter

Member
I thought Catholics didn't believe in heaven and hell as it was just a metaphor or something.

What am I thinking of?

Menelaus said:
Seize upon what? Why should any atheist give two thoughts as to what the pope may more may not think about them?
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On a spiritual level? Nothing. On a "heaps of people in powerful positions believe everything this guy says" level? It still unfortunately matters.
 
A

Aristion

Banned
Ithil said:
So the Pope is reasonable and humane about something, then the Vatican rushes to clarify that they're still judgmental and doom and gloom?
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The Pope never stated that atheists are going to Heaven. The Vatican is clarifying what the Pope ACTUALLY SAID.


hidys said:
The pope is only infallible when he says he is speaking infallibly. That has only happened once.
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Twice, actually. When Pius IX infallibly defined the Immaculate Conception in 1854 and when Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary in 1950.
 
N

Norua

Banned
Rev. Thomas Rosica, a Vatican spokesman, said that people who know about the Catholic church “cannot be saved” if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her.”
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Seems legit.

I don't know how people can read statements like this and still think this organization isn't a scam.

Thank God you can't manipulate people through fear.
 
A

akira28

Member
Menelaus said:
Seize upon what? Why should any atheist give two thoughts as to what the pope may more may not think about them?
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ok so proud warrior atheist need not care what puny Pope think, of course. But someone somewhere would see this as an opening for dialogue. The sort you drive a armored truck through. Because the man said it. They're not going anywhere, and interesting dialogue is interesting. Or just continue seeing the church as an archaic and unmoving rock of archaic unmovingness.

If Frankie said something in the spirit, and was about to say all atheists who do good works would go to heaven. There was a time when that would cause a sensation and tremendous debate.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Ithil said:
So the Pope is reasonable and humane about something, then the Vatican rushes to clarify that they're still judgmental and doom and gloom?
Click to expand...

They had to, what business would tell you that you don't need their services and are fine without them.
 
F

fastford58

Member
The pope is against fundamental Christian law.

Also, he can hum on my nuts. Most of those higher ups are probably stoking the coals of hell, if there is such a place.
 
H

hym

Banned
commedieu said:
funny that its considered her.. when the church has -4050130503285838384095868237 discussion of women issues in the bible.
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Luke 7:36-50 - Jesus Anointed by a Sinful Woman
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”

40 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.”

So he said, “Teacher, say it.”

41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”

43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”

And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.” 44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”
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Do note her faith was not religion obviously, it was kindness. So I guess women are allowed to sin if they don't act like bitches about it.

That's in the top 10 of women issues no?
 
C

crozier

Member
This is the reason I cannot get on board with Christianity and was a major point of contention with my faith growing up. What loving God would require you to believe one thing, and only one thing, out of potentially millions of others things and condemn you to suffer for eternity if you choose wrongly?

Makes no sense. This is coming from an agnostic who really wants to believe in more, but has found most organized religions ridiculous.

After trying DMT I am absofuckinglutely positive there is intelligence out there, around us, and not at all human.
 
R

Replicant

Member
In response to the media attention, the Rev. Thomas Rosica, a Vatican spokesman, said that people who know about the Catholic church “cannot be saved” if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her.”
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"When he cums to me I am ready"?
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
bytesized said:
I bet hell is more fun anyway...
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Almost everyone who's worth meeting that ever lived is in hell according to Catholics. Most great philosophers, most great scientists, luminaries from every age, and all the awesome ordinary people the Church wasn't able to sink its claws into.
 
A

akira28

Member
jaxword said:
Ironic since if the atheists DID pounce on it, people would scream about how mean and aggressive they are.

Lose/lose when it comes to religion.
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playfully pounce. like a kitten. who wouldn't snuggle an atheist kitten?

"I mean he said, the guy said, the pope. He said. Atheists go to heaven. Is that not huge? He said it. I didn't. He's the pope. The boss. It counts. He didn't take it back either."
 
A

Acorn

Member
This is the opposite of what I was taught in church, I was taught that the same rules apply to others as to Catholics. I.E Don't be a dick and you will get in.
 
J

jaxword

Member
Acorn said:
This is the opposite of what I was taught in church, I was taught that the same rules apply to others as to Catholics. I.E Don't be a dick and you will get in.
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Strange how each church and denomination puts their own spin on things.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Acorn said:
This is the opposite of what I was taught in church, I was taught that the same rules apply to others as to Catholics. I.E Don't be a dick and you will get in.
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Every church I have been to drilled in the same message every time, "God sacrificed his own son to wipe out our sins so the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus" Every sermon had that line at least once, hammered into people. Mind you I have not been to a Catholic church so maybe they are different, somehow I doubt it.
 
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