Graphics Horse
Member
Thanks, I thought it might be
Two and a half times the pixels of some iPad games yeah. Exception to the rule if it's there at all but not impossible if the display output is capable.
Don't get me wrong, neither do I.
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
- Start date
Thanks, I thought it might be
Two and a half times the pixels of some iPad games yeah. Exception to the rule if it's there at all but not impossible if the display output is capable.
Don't get me wrong, neither do I.
phosphor112
Banned
That would require new HDMI standard... It was supposed to be revealed late this year, but I expect it to be early (Jan) next year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0
4k at 60fps wouldn't be enough for 4k 3D at 48 frames. Each frame would have to be packed, meaning it would have left and right frames in one "pack". It would essentially have to support 3840x4350 frames at 48 FPS.
It's written poorly, but I don't believe that's implying 4k 60p is inherently using peak bandwidth.
Unfortunately the pdf in the references (citation 151) is no longer on the server. Guess we'll have to wait until CES unless you want to go on a hunting expedition to try and find the original white paper.
phosphor112
Banned
Yeah, I don't expect 60fps to hit max bandwidth or if they've even set those numbers in stone (I feel like they'd shoot for higher...).
EDIT: 1.4 to 2.0, with those numbers, the bandwidth isn't even doubled, from 10.2 to 18 Gb/s. It would have to be a bigger jump probably since 24fps at 4k is near max bandwidth.
Not necessarily. 1.4 already supports 4096×2160p24 at 36-bit color, and it's unclear how much overhead is still available.
Assuming Rec 2020 for actual content, we're talking about a bit lower resolution (3840x2160) and lower color depth (though also lower chroma sub-sampling which will add back some bandwidth requirements).
Of course, all this really says nothing about actual bitrates and therefore actual video quality. These resolution, etc specs are simply saying what formats are actually required (or optionally required) to be recognized and synced by HDMI Tx/Rx/repeater devices. The good news is h.265 will be part of this equation, and it sees around a 50% reduction in bandwidth requirements for equivalent video quality versus h.264 due to codec improvements.
My brother is in town for the holidays and we're about to head out to do some bar hopping. I'll run some numbers over the break though to see what's really viable here. Obviously I'm a bit busy with Christmas, but give it a few days (unless you feel like engaging in some math fun).
phosphor112
Banned
Cool, thanks man.
Coming back power under the hood: In a recent episode of IGN's START, one of the developers from SOE, Matt Higby alluded that PS4 may very likely see Planetside 2. Do you guys think that it'll be able to retain the draw distance and fidelity of up to This level? In this video, the author notes that the game is more CPU dependent than GPU. And one is for certain, PS4 will not have a top end CPU let alone a very good one (A10 is average at best). So the game needs to programmed to the strengths of the console when it does inevitably gets ported over. Some performance gains should be expected given their development for a target hardware.
Consider the following compromises and then state your thoughts on attaining the visual fidelity shown the in the review I posted the link to (which IMO isn't the same as say, KZ3, in terms of textures, but considering the Scale and the Lighting which look to be a step above any shooter on PS3, it just blows everything else out of the water and is truly worthy of being a next gen title):
Consider the following compromises and then state your thoughts on attaining the visual fidelity shown the in the review I posted the link to (which IMO isn't the same as say, KZ3, in terms of textures, but considering the Scale and the Lighting which look to be a step above any shooter on PS3, it just blows everything else out of the water and is truly worthy of being a next gen title):
- Dynamic resolution (with 720p min) or just 720p
- Locked 30 FPS with V-sync
- Some form of inexpensive AA
- May be (and this is the very last compromise they should even think about) some tweaks to player count.
phosphor112
Banned
Planetside 2 is a beautiful game, and I think it'll run perfectly on the PS4, and yes, it is a very CPU intensive game, as is any game with massive amounts of online players.
Having Planetside 2 available at launch will definitely be a selling point. "Look at what we can do on here" and show that they can play with PC players (Separating the two would be pointless... no point in cutting the potential userbase in half)
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
Wow that game looks amazing. Would buy a PS4 to play that. Is it guaranteed to be on it though? I mean are we just saying that because it's SOE? Can't wait for next gen any longer lol.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
How much auto aim would you need?
break away move controller? you never know, maybe even keyboard and mouse support.
phosphor112
Banned
How much auto aim would you need?
They can allow all sorts of input for control. Use voice recognition for features that can't be accessed on the controller. The game isn't exactly a twitch shooter as well. Not like an arena shooter.
I wish everyone would stop comparing the hardware inside of the next-gen consoles to consumer parts. It's not how things are going to shake out. The parts driving those consoles will have trade-offs that enable for greatly enhanced performance in some respects and compromises in others. But those compromises will be made in the interest of game development.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Agreed.
I don't believe the CPUs are going to be in any way "gimped". They are going to simply be more flexible, with massive GPGPU capabilities.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
it's mostly i-Lo doing that
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
for PS2, if it's using all AMD parts, wouldn't they just use AMD's version of FXAA or whatever? the 'cheap' AA solution they came up with in response to nvidia coming up with theirs.
plus, since a lot of developer talk lately is hinting at the future being GPU's handling a lot of general tasks instead of just graphics, that might be how PS4 runs PS2. using both of it's GPU's (the APU and dedicated GPU) to spread out all the load.
plus, since a lot of developer talk lately is hinting at the future being GPU's handling a lot of general tasks instead of just graphics, that might be how PS4 runs PS2. using both of it's GPU's (the APU and dedicated GPU) to spread out all the load.
In terms of AA support I'm expecting (read:hoping) for a custom SMAA solution. Sony's MLAA was far better than it's PC implementation and SMAA is built on a lot of the same principles.
I don't believe that'll actually happen. If it does then it's great but it most likely won't.
it's mostly i-Lo doing that
Wtf? lol
I did mention that no matter what the CPU or GPU, if the development is going to be more GPU centric for next gen console, PS4, then I am certain that devs will go around developing the game to play to the console's strength. I also mentioned that development for the game would be easier and the results would inevitably be better and hopefully more stable primarily because the devs are developing to a target hardware that they know the specifics of.
And I am not complaining about the hardware inside PS4 because we have no idea what is going into it besides the fact that it'll be AMD parts. And an A10 (going by the rumour in the OP) is outdone by say an i5 or i7 no matter where it's placed in a multitude of theoretical and real world tests. But at the end, like Aegeis mentioned it probably will have no bearing on the development.
Brad Grenz
Member
You're talking about MLAA which AMD introduced to their drivers before nVidia introduced FXAA to theirs. In any case it doesn't matter since neither is in principle tied to a specific hardware vendor and devs will be free to use whatever AA solution they think works best for their game.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
Damn, Planetside 2 looks and plays amazing. If it does get released for PS4 i think i would be able to finally move on from COD. Do it Sony.
EDIT- i-Lo you said: "And one is for certain, PS4 will not have a top end CPU let alone a very good one"
All we have is rumors. Nothing is certain yet. So how are you so sure of this? You keep talking like you know something.
EDIT- i-Lo you said: "And one is for certain, PS4 will not have a top end CPU let alone a very good one"
All we have is rumors. Nothing is certain yet. So how are you so sure of this? You keep talking like you know something.
He doesn't and neither anybody else here for that matter in this thread. This is a rumour thread and like any other rumours i hope hope sony does not suprise us and give us a piece of shit underpowered console.
If SCEI was under the control of sony electronics or if ken was still around then sony's tradition of unique hardware would be still be viable. But as things stands there is an element of doubt somewhere and this is where all the rumours are floating from.
Don't disappoint me sony!
Thank you for reiterating what I just said.
"PS4 will not have a top end CPU". Yes, I should have been more clear because it was a bit of jumping the gun. Sorry about that. I stated that A10 is outmatched by intel i5 or i7 in context of the guy's review of Planetside 2 during which he commented that it's a very CPU dependent game and only the highest calliber CPUs tend not falter as much on the higher settings during crowded battles. We do know for a fact that there isn't going be an intel processor in PS4 and the A10 is being used as the current APU to simulate the final product and not be in it. And finally, current rumour according the latest patent pictures posted here suggest that they may not even be going with an APU solution rather a CPU and 2 GPU solution. So in the end, once again, PS2 would have to be developed to the strengths of PS4's hardware and the results should be glorious albeit with certain compromises that may be needed to be made.
What kind of BS put down is this? Yes, no shit it's all rumours right now and jumping to multiple avenues for crumbs of news and reaching new conclusions is a part of it. Who knows what the final hardware is going to have. However, saying shit like this undermines the reason for whole discussion and demeans the members. Shame.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
yes you did.
you keep on telling everyone how "bad" the a10 is and how much better other processors are, and people keep on telling you that you can't use the desktop/laptop benchmarks of anything to measure what kind of results we'll see in ps4/xb3.
rumors of consoles using a 8xxxM gpu? just look at these benchmarks! it doesn't work that way, and you clearly just don't get it.
I'm sorry but you and Grim1ock are sticking to their old shtick when people have already countered your arguments time and time again.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think/hope the A10 that is in the current PS4 devkit is just the best thing AMD have that has the basic characteristics of what the PS4 chip will be. ie: Fusion APU.
Not sure it will be the case, but I assume the new devkit in January will have the first iteration of the actual chip. Like the first PS3 devkits had a 2.4Ghz Cell.
Not sure it will be the case, but I assume the new devkit in January will have the first iteration of the actual chip. Like the first PS3 devkits had a 2.4Ghz Cell.
Yes, I did say that I jumped the gun on the whole A10 because that's what the original rumour had. And I did concede that developing to target specs would yield better results than the ones posted in that review. You forget that I don't necessarily hold the same views with the intake of new info. That's why it's chronological. Even then I didn't hold that opinion about A10 in vacuum. Now after Aegies categorically and logically stated (as opposed to me) that same specs in PC and console aren't directly comparable, I agreed. But once again, if one goes head to head, as the whole talk about PS2 brought forth, A10 wouldn't really compare to the top end intels, no matter where. That's why I also categorically stated that if PS2 is in development, it'd be based on PS4's strengths and not a traditional PC's. And yes, it was illogical of me to compare desktops/laptop setups with console's head to head but it does provide an idea as where in the playing field the A10 is compared to the rest. Hypothetically, I don't think the power would magically increase tremendously once it becomes a part of a closed box because the performance increase comes thanks to developers who try to hit 100% of the target hardware's performance.
If benchmarks weren't really comparable in any way shape or form then I don't think there would even have been all this discussion in the first place. People wouldn't have talked about GPU or CPU or been in doubt about the performance when it was rumoured that we may be getting a cape verde as opposed to a pitcairn. We all draw conclusions about the ability of a hardware through benchmarks performed on PC and sadly there is no way around it to see how the same parts would perform with customization in a console.
Also, might I add, it looks like A10 will not be a part of PS4 anyway.
jeff_rigby
Banned
A point for those that don't believe the second GPU in a APU + GPU will be a mobile or modified mobile 8000M series. Desktop GPUs in the PC designs include video and audio out with a Video port on the card. Mobile GPUs do not have those circuits as they rely on the APU on the motherboard to provide them. This is correct? It's assumed a second mobile GPU does not need video out and hardware codec or a number of other circuits that will be in a APU. Thus a mobile CPU will have a higher yield and lower cost.
Performance 8000 series PC cards will arrive Q3 2013 with Kaveri using a different Silicon and too late for PS4 launch.
Performance 8000 series PC cards will arrive Q3 2013 with Kaveri using a different Silicon and too late for PS4 launch.
If it wasn't already fairly obvious, Evolution Studio's latest job postings make it very obvious indeed that they're working on a new IP for next-gen (referencing 'GPU Compute' etc.)
Media Molecule also had this to say in their Christmas blog:
Which is also sort of obvious. But still...oh my.
Media Molecule also had this to say in their Christmas blog:
Which is also sort of obvious. But still...oh my.
"2013 is gearing up to be another big year for Guerrilla quite possibly the biggest since we released the original Killzone way back in 2004. Well have more details for you at a future date, but until then we hope you share a wonderful holiday with your loved ones, and well see you in 2013."
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/24/happy-holidays-from-guerrilla-games-2/
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/24/happy-holidays-from-guerrilla-games-2/
WeAreStarStuff
Member
I am ready.
Zekra Dezivad
Member
Finally their new ip.
Unfortunately still a PS3 game, imo. They already have ~2-3 years of development behind the project, probably too much for a PS4 title.
Sounds like the perfect recipe for a PS4 killer app.
I would be absolutely shocked if there was another new IP for PS3 coming next year, especially one that we don't know about yet. Last of Us, Beyond, and Puppeteer are already coming which is way more new IPs that usually launch this late in the gen. GG's new IP is almost definitely going to be on PS4. It's great to launch a new IP alongside a new console, especially one from an established developer with a knack for visuals. They may have been targetting next gen since the beginning of the project.
pharmboy044
Member
The pessimist in me thinks of the two Vita projects that both companies are working on and assumes that they are talking about this instead of next gen. But you never know.
gaming_noob
Member
PS4 releasing in 2013, confirmed?
Graphics Horse
Member
hmm?
You don't really need the devkit hardware to plan a launch title, obviously you do when you put the final thing together but there's a lot that can just be built for PC before that.
Also I don't have any love for Killzone but that Christmas card is great.
Killzone for Vita and hopefully new IP for PS4.
gaming_noob
Member
My wallet and I have been ready since 2010. Bring it on!
They did say biggest since their first game and KZ Mercenaries has already been announced for Vita. So it's definitely not a PSV game and it seems like a valuable resource to waste for Sony to have GG develop another game for PS3 when they can create a killer app for PS4:
Edit: It most likely would be KZ4 for PS4 because creating a new IP may not be considered a killer app.
New shooter IP for PS4 launch by Guerilla
New racing IP for PS4 launch by Evolution
I think MediaMolecule will be busy with Tearaway so they won't announce their new PS4 IP in 2013, but will work on it behind the scenes. Sucker Punch will also likely have a new IP for PS4 but not for launch but it will definitely make it for PS4's first year. Finally I think Santa Monica will also show something but will be a tease and not release in PS3's first year. As for Naughty Dogg and Polyphonic they won't have anything until at least PS4's 2nd year.
So if I had to guess
Launch
Guerilla Games new shooter
Evolution Studios new racer
4 months after launch
Sucker Punch's new action adventure IP
8 months after launch
Santa Monica's new IP
12 months after launch
Media Molecules new IP and Planetside 2
16 months after launch
Uncharted 4
20 months after launch
GT7
New racing IP for PS4 launch by Evolution
I think MediaMolecule will be busy with Tearaway so they won't announce their new PS4 IP in 2013, but will work on it behind the scenes. Sucker Punch will also likely have a new IP for PS4 but not for launch but it will definitely make it for PS4's first year. Finally I think Santa Monica will also show something but will be a tease and not release in PS3's first year. As for Naughty Dogg and Polyphonic they won't have anything until at least PS4's 2nd year.
So if I had to guess
Launch
Guerilla Games new shooter
Evolution Studios new racer
4 months after launch
Sucker Punch's new action adventure IP
8 months after launch
Santa Monica's new IP
12 months after launch
Media Molecules new IP and Planetside 2
16 months after launch
Uncharted 4
20 months after launch
GT7
iamshadowlark
Banned
No way PS3 is getting a new First Party IP at this point.
Graphics Horse
Member
Media Molecule haven't released a games since the end of 2010 and they haven't been working flat out on DLC or Tearaway since then. That doesn't guarantee a game for launch but I think they'll have something to show off before then.
Polyphony did have a little something for the PS3's first few months and I think they'll do the same again.
Polyphony did have a little something for the PS3's first few months and I think they'll do the same again.
gaming_noob
Member
http://kotaku.com/5971029/sony-empl...a-lot-of-confidence-that-orbis-will-sell-well
Does this mean PS4 is going to be an absolute BEAST?
Both quotes contradict. But in the end it doesn't sound like it was written by a legit "former Senior Manager".
Does this mean PS4 is going to be an absolute BEAST?
Both quotes contradict. But in the end it doesn't sound like it was written by a legit "former Senior Manager".
Well, the PS3 is getting 3 new exclusive IPs next year already but I think that's just more fuel for the new GG IP being next gen. We would have seen it by now if it was coming.
I'm really hoping for some more MotorStorm off-road goodness from Evolution.