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[Sami+]

Newest video from The Cosmonaut Variety Hour. I've only seen a few of his videos before but this popped up in my feed and I felt it was worth sharing especially considering how popular Dragon Ball Z is on here and with our general demographic.

Honestly I think he hits the nail right on the head and nothing he said really stood out to me as something I disagreed with, although he does kind of stretch with the title by merging the Saiyan and Frieza arcs. Really good review of the character development, ongoing storylines, and dramatic moments that made the Saiyan/Frieza saga the absolute peak of the entire series, and a major highlight for the genre it pioneered. Although Dragon Ball has been torn apart critically over the course of the past two decades, I think his criticism of everything that came after is concise and well worded, and covers many of the major storytelling issues Dragon Ball suffered after the end of the Frieza arc without being too nitpicky.

The recap of some of the major story beats and why they worked so well made me really want to go back and experience the story again, but since I don't have the manga unfortunately (and don't want to drop like $100 on it lol) I might actually just go back and watch the first 50 episodes of Kai like the video suggests. Vegeta and Krillin are my two favorite characters (obviously for very different reasons), and the roles the two of them play in the story at this point is one of the best things about early DBZ to me in comparison to what came after. Piccolo is also obviously great, and also gets a lot to do alongside some really great development. Everything up until the death of Frieza is just so well paced, presented, and written and really stands tall among Dragon Ball's other shonen manga contemporaries.

Also I forgot how damn good the art style was back in that arc. Even later Z started straying from that a bit.

 

[Permanently A]

But that's Chimera Ants

 

[Basoes]

That's not
yu yu hakusho dark tournament arc

 

[FireBeaver]

Not even the best DBZ Arc

Spoiler

Frieza Saga

 

[RareFantasy64]

But that's Chimera Ants

I think the Saiyan/Frieza arc is up there with Chimera Ants, Chapter Black, Dark Tournament, Yorkshin, CP9, Marineford and Kyoto arc as the GOAT shonen arcs

 

[DominoKid]

great arc. i prefer the Android/Cell saga more within DB

coming off the Saiyan and Frieza sagas shit rolled along w/o missing a beat

 

[SpiceMelange]

Saiyan arc has the best art

 

[HStallion]

Hmm that's kind of cheating putting the Saiyan and Frieza arcs together but I'll allow it as those are the two strongest arcs of DBZ by and far and combining them does make for a really good longer multi part arc.

I'd still say the Chimera Ant arc of HxH is the best of the best for Shounens

 

[Seductivpancakes]

But that's Chimera Ants

I found this a very boring arc towards the end. Like right after

Spoiler

the king is born.

 

[LotusHD]

In Shonen History? Um, no, kind of cheating too. It's like an extreme version of when people combine both Water 7 and Enies Lobby lol

That said, obviously two good arcs nonetheless.

 

[Lulubop]

Not even top 10, also the Budokai (pick one) arcs in DB are better.

Also, he's cheating.

 

[Lamel]

The namek saga was fantastic. I liked how cunning vegeta was, and all the fights were brutal as well.

 

[chrisPjelly]

Probably the de facto DBZ arc in terms of writing before it starts becoming a nonstop masturbatory saiyan power creep.

Spoiler

I still love the Cell arc more tho

But that's Chimera Ants

Nah. As much I LOVE the characterization and motifs of this HxH arc, it has HORRIBLE exposition overload issues and the pacing suffers greatly because of it.

 

[Lulubop]

Also this video is kinda bullshit. Dragon Ball is oddly unique in how it treats it's villains and sub characters.

Most battle Shonen take after Kinnikuman or Saint Seiya and not DB. These series also predate DB in troupes they all share.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Agreed, helped put the genre on the map in the west too. And that was even without the plot context of the earlier Dragon Ball arcs.

 

[Maximo]

But that's Chimera Ants

Ehhhhh rewatching HxH its not the best it drags at certain parts.

 

[RareFantasy64]

The namek saga was fantastic. I liked how cunning vegeta was, and all the fights were brutal as well.

I'm WAY more of a Goku guy but I agree. Watching Vegeta slowly make his way through Frieza's army, growing enough along the way to eventually fight Frieza at the top, is arguably the best thing in all of DB. IMO. DB is way lighter on story narrative than HXH or OP or most shonen. But I think Vegeta's arc in the Frieza arc is up there with the best shonen has to offer

 

[Permanently A]

Well having watched the video, he talks about why its a good arc, and why the later arcs are worse in comparison, but he does very little to argue for why it is the BEST arc out of the entirety of shonen, besides a preamble on how DBZ is the progenitor of shonen.

 

[kitsunelaine]

Honestly I think Cell had the best build-up.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

But this is the best arc in shonen history

 

[Pein]

I mean those are two separate ass arcs they're probably peak DBZ but again they're separate.

Chunnin exams, chimera ant and marineford I think are all stronger arcs. I also wanna throw soul society in there because goddamn if that wasn't the arc that made bleach a hit too.

 

[Maximo]

But this is the best arc in shonen history

Fuck I love Water 7 rewatch the arc every few years.

 

[Lulubop]

JoJo does timeskips better too, obviously.

 

[Betty]

nah it's not, even when you cut out all the godawful filler (and there's a crap ton) it's still not great

It's basically

HYAAAAAA I'm STRONG!!

WRONG I AM STRONGER STILL

YOU SPOKE TOO SOON FOR I AM STRONGER!!!

So nah.

Dark Tournament Arc
Chimera Ant Arc

they both decimate Dragonball

 

[Bakercat]

I like the story, pace, artstyle, and fights of the frieza saga, but what keeps me from really enjoying it to its fullest is it's setting on Namek. I just can't stand looking at the same dull background for almost 100 episodes and it really turns me off from it. I think that's why I like the cell saga more, it had a lot more locations and colors than just green and blue.

 

[Kusagari]

There's like 5 better JoJo arcs alone if we're counting each part as an arc.

 

[Regulus Tera]

That is not the Chimaera Ant arc from Hunter x Hunter.

 

[KenzinFive]

If Hollywood ever got its head out of its ass and made a competent, tone-correct movie version of DBZ, the Saiyan Saga would fit perfectly as the first solo movie. Piccolo's character arc alone in that saga would be great stuff. Plus, having 2/3 of the cast die in the fight with Nappa and Vegeta after spending the first part of the movie establishing them would definitely establish the stakes.

I like other sagas more (namely Android/Cell), but the Saiyan Saga is the best self-contained and straight-forward arc in DBZ.

Best in all of shonen though? One Piece arcs like Arlong, Alabasta, and Enies Lobby were far more memorable and impactful to me. And Yu Yu Hakusho's Dark Tournament Arc is still the best "tournament" arc ever made, but it suffers from having a lot of fights that don't honestly mean that much in the long run.

 

[Dark_castle]

Chimera Ant bro.

 

[Pein]

JoJo does timeskips better too, obviously.

maybe I'm wrong but nothing in jojo seems like a defined arc. Like you get more villain of the week or one long story like part 1 and 2. But arcs don't happen because the part will end then another part will start.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Rule #1 of GAF: Never start a topic with "Best _____ ever" or "Is _____ the best _____," as it will instantly derail the thread into a series of disagreements and cause the initial subject of discussion to be forgotten.

 

[Sami+]

Rule #1 of GAF: Never start a topic with "Best _____ ever" or "Is _____ the best _____," as it will instantly derail the thread into a series of disagreements and cause the initial subject of discussion to be forgotten.

Yeah in hindsight I should have changed the title to something else. Meh.

 

[EMT0]

But...One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Jojo exist. They all have arcs that crap on DBZ's best from great height. I've never seen/read HxH so I can't comment on it. Hell, maybe even Naruto and Bleach have superior arcs in the Chunnin Exams/Sasuke Retrieval and Soul Society. DBZ's Namek was ultimately not that great, if I remove all the nostalgia I held for it as a kid.

 

[Sub_Level]

Good video.

Cell/Android arc prolly has the stuff I like the most in DBZ, but there's no doubt Saiyan + Freeza saga is the most consistent in quality. Sci-fi + martial arts is such a weird combination but somehow they made it work.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

If Hollywood ever got its head out of its ass and made a competent, tone-correct movie version of DBZ, the Saiyan Saga would fit perfectly as the first solo movie. Piccolo's character arc alone in that saga would be great stuff. Plus, having 2/3 of the cast die in the fight with Nappa and Vegeta after spending the first part of the movie establishing them would definitely establish the stakes.

I like other sagas more (namely Android/Cell), but the Saiyan Saga is the best self-contained and straight-forward arc in DBZ.

Best in all of shonen though? One Piece arcs like Arlong, Alabasta, and Enies Lobby were far more memorable and impactful to me. And Yu Yu Hakusho's Dark Tournament Arc is still the best "tournament" arc ever made, but it suffers from having a lot of fights that don't honestly mean that much in the long run.

Stuff like DB and One Piece should never exist in live action.

 

[theCalamity]

Yeah in hindsight I should have changed the title to something else. Meh.

Should've been "I really like these two arcs of DBZ. Does anyone else?"

Have you seen any other shonen?

 

[Oblivion]

He thinks the Saiyan and Freezer arcs are the best arcs in all of DBZ?

Don't go too far out on that limb, breh..

 

[Verelios]

But this is the best arc in shonen history

You're not lying. When Luffy was fighting Blueno for the first time I was shook because it seemed like he got wrecked in two seconds but then I stood the FUCK UP when his monologue started. Everything after was just HYPE HYPE HYPE GEAR 2

 

[Ray Down]

I would say Buu arc is equal to the Saiyan arc.

 

[RareFantasy64]

But...One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Jojo exist. They all have arcs that crap on DBZ's best from great height. I've never seen/read HxH so I can't comment on it. Hell, maybe even Naruto and Bleach have superior arcs in the Chunnin Exams/Sasuke Retrieval and Soul Society. DBZ's Namek was ultimately not that great, if I remove all the nostalgia I held for it as a kid.

HXH is my favorite shonen. Sasuke Retrieval arc is one of my fav arcs. DB doesn't have as complex characters or story narratives as other popular shonen, but I think there is very pure shonen story DNA in DB and the early Z stuff that keeps DB as being just as important and good as OP, HXH, etc.

 

[Sami+]

Should've been "I really like these two arcs of DBZ. Does anyone else?"

Have you seen any other shonen?

I didn't make the video lol.

And yes, Hunter x Hunter is my favorite anime.

He thinks the Saiyan and Freezer arcs are the best arcs in all of DBZ?

Don't go too far out on that limb, breh..

Better than Cell and Buu by far in consistency and quality by far.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

You could tell Toriyama had DBZ preplanned all the way until the Frieza saga from the getgo. It was with the Android Saga where it started to stumble and by the time the thin evil Boo appeared it went out the window into frustration and boredom.

In fact I can pinpoint the exact moment DBZ jumped the shark and that was when evil Boo swallowed Vegito and Goku and Vegeta started exploring Boo's stomach and even started battling little versions of Boo inside Boo! Christ.

TL;DR the Saipan, Namek and Frieza saga were without a doubt the best part of DBZ by far.

 

[Squishy3]

maybe I'm wrong but nothing in jojo seems like a defined arc. Like you get more villain of the week or one long story like part 1 and 2. But arcs don't happen because the part will end then another part will start.

Parts 6 and 7 definitely have arcs, although they don't fit what most people would classify as a "shonen arc."

 

[Sibersk Esto]

You could tell Toriyama had DBZ preplanned all the way until the Frieza saga from the getgo.

Toriyama didn't plan anything.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I will not abide this Cell Saga shit talking

 

[Pein]

Parts 6 and 7 definitely have arcs, although they don't fit what most people would classify as a "shonen arc."

I've only seen the anime so that puts me up to part 4 only.

 

[zulux21]

I will never understand the love for the ant arc of HXH.

greed island and yorknew are both leagues better than it.

I would put water 7 up there for best.

I also think I would put The Scarlet arc of detective conan up there (even if the actual arc is only a few episodes). The payoff in that arc and long build up to it are really something special.

I'd also have the arc with the clown from Yakitate Japan up there because it is also amazing.

 

[PixelatedBookake]

The Namek saga was fantastic. Vegeta had wins that will continue to fuel his ego until the end of time. Krillin was relevant and was able to go head to head with Frieza and live. Gohan proves himself as a fighter after being given the spotlight. Goku is used the same way here as he is in the Saiyan Saga, in which at one point (Ginyu arc) the other fighters are just waiting for Goku to get to Namek, which I don't like, but there was a great sense of anticipation and suspense that you don't really get from the rest of Z outside some key moments from the Cell saga. Frieza was also a great villain and a true adversary to Goku, Vegeta, and even Piccolo for genociding their people (Vegeta helped with that and low-key never got punished for it). Definitely the peak of DBZ.

 

[Jigolo]

That title belongs to Water 7 / Enies Lobby

 

[Ray Down]

Toriyama didn't plan anything.

Yeah he notorious played thinks fast,loose and let's not forget he's very forgetful.