More_Badass
Member
Seems like some kind of made-up phrase related to some program/code/theory for host behavior
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
This is my current guess. It may even be part of Ford's new religious storyline.
More_Badass
Member
I doubt it. The only use of frame agent I can find is one usage related to video encoding
Agant makes more sense, since it's related to a Latin word about behavior and motivation and drive
Ha yeah, these are pretty much all the places I ended up at.
For anyone else interested... I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a big thing
Reshoots.
That's what a lot of these timeline theories boil down to. Even the logos. This show was in the making for 3+ years. The logo probably changed on the HBO end for marketing.
It was mostly in 3 batches, though.
Pilot
Episodes 2-6
Episodes 7-10
Even within just episode 2 (William's Scene vs. Sizemore's scene), or just episode 3, there's the logo discrepancy.
Rewatching ep3 having just watched ep4, and I noticed that Bernard speaks with his wife of the pain from remembering his son. She wonders if it helps or hurts, and he says these memories and pain are all he has left of him.
Interesting that the same idea comes up in ep4 with Delores when discussing the death of her parents, but Bernard dismisses it as a "pretty" thought.
Interesting that the same idea comes up in ep4 with Delores when discussing the death of her parents, but Bernard dismisses it as a "pretty" thought.
But she isn't fucked up when she is with William. She is thankful and compliant. She waits and generally does what she is told. She is fucked up when she is with Bernard and in the present timeframe when she talks to the little girl.
We have already seen 1 confirmed flashback with young Ford and the past is mentioned a whole lot. Then how the characters have been divided, William and Logan have never run into the MiB or Teddy. Even in this episode we had Ford talking abut how his new storyline wasn't about the past. There are simply too many references to the past for it to be brushed aside.
I'm starting to get the sense that there are guests in the park who are actually hosts, but have been programmed to think they are humans going on a vacation.
Also, something else I noticed in ep3. When Teddy is surrounded by those cultists he does a quick 360 turn and shoots a bunch of them, but nothing happens. Bullet proof vests for the hosts, or are guests encouraged to join this cult as part of the experience?
Also, something else I noticed in ep3. When Teddy is surrounded by those cultists he does a quick 360 turn and shoots a bunch of them, but nothing happens. Bullet proof vests for the hosts, or are guests encouraged to join this cult as part of the experience?
I had thought that they had some sort of bulletproofing, or maybe Ford had written in one of those horror movie-style "seems supernatural until it gets explained in the last act" mechanics, but the cultists being composed at least partially of guests could actually be a fantastic twist.
Speaking of which, that scene is literally happening right now.
More_Badass
Member
Or even simpler, host that activate the guest simunitions rather than the ones that damage hosts
Another piece from my stream of consciousness while rewatching these eps...
I've been wondering how Bernard is able have those conversations with Dolores while she is involved in a storyline with guests in the park. They can't just go collect her, have a conversation, and then plonk her back into the park without anyone noticing.
Then I realised they may have a spare or two of Dolores' body, so Bernard can just upload her current consciousness into it while she's asleep, have the conversation, and then she wakes up in the park, remembering it as a dream. Didn't even occur to me that they could do that until just now.
I've been wondering how Bernard is able have those conversations with Dolores while she is involved in a storyline with guests in the park. They can't just go collect her, have a conversation, and then plonk her back into the park without anyone noticing.
Then I realised they may have a spare or two of Dolores' body, so Bernard can just upload her current consciousness into it while she's asleep, have the conversation, and then she wakes up in the park, remembering it as a dream. Didn't even occur to me that they could do that until just now.
Hmm, that's an interesting theory, hadn't even thought of that
The details in this show are what really make it.
That scene between Ford and Cullen was so tense when everything froze. There's a brief shot where you can see Ford pointing his finger. When everything resumes you see him point his finger again. Such a subtle touch, but it really drew attention to Ford's god-like power in the park, that he can command such power with a simple gesture.
That scene between Ford and Cullen was so tense when everything froze. There's a brief shot where you can see Ford pointing his finger. When everything resumes you see him point his finger again. Such a subtle touch, but it really drew attention to Ford's god-like power in the park, that he can command such power with a simple gesture.
- Different Westworld logos
- Different hosts/scenarios being acted out around them
- The abandoned area of the facility looks like the area William was in before he walked into Westworld
- The show is co-created by Jonathan Nolan. The Nolans have a penchant for writing scripts that jump around in time.
Delores probably just had similar suspicions about her reality in the past, which is why she's acting that way around William.
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a good enough plausible explanation for the two logos in the show that doesn't involve part of the show being misleadingly set in the past. What reason in the story can you think of that would involve there being two logos used in such a deliberate way?
The reshoots theory makes no sense. I mean, what is the claim? Logos appearing in any given scene is part of the production design. If the theory is that the production design changed over the course of shooting, the question is why? Furthermore, it would mean that all the scenes with the old logo were shot first, and all the scenes with the new logo are reshoots added into episodes retroactively later on? So let's look at it and see if it makes any sense...
Pilot:
- Old logo seen in the cold storage doors in the basement
Episode 2:
- Old logo seen on the display screen for visitors
- Old logo seen in the equipment room for visitors
- New logo seen on the trailer for Odyssey on Red River
- New logo seen on the pillars of the elevator floor when Ford is going up
- (Bonus) New logo seen in the equipment room for visitors in a preview thumbnail * Not used in actual episode
Episode 3:
- Old logo seen on the lab coats of all technicians in the flashback
- New logo seen on the pillars of the elevator floor when Elsie and Stubbs are going up
So is the "simplest explanation" really that they just had reshoots for the elevator scenes and the presentation of the new scenario, all of which are key scenes to the plots of the respective episodes, and forgot to change the old logos in post production? Did they also do a reshoot of the scene in episode 2 with William in the equipment room and then decide not to use it at all?
It sounds like this would have to be a comically bad series of production errors for it to end up this way. About as contrived as the timeline theories. It's possible but unlikely. The simplest explanation in fact seems to be that there is a deliberate intent to hint at something with two different Westworld logos presented in the show, but the reason has not been revealed yet.
That's a strange thing... Why would they do that ? If the old logo is meant to be there, why did they change it in the thumbnail ? Fun theories...
Charles Brandon
Member
They wouldn't need to reshoot to put the old logo in, they'd do that digitally.
Well it's worth noting that the exact photo used in the preview thumbnail is not a scene in the actual episode. So it was either replaced or deleted.
Can Crusher
Banned
I really hope they aren't going with multiple timelines. It's not interesting.
A few other things I've noticed (and may have already been mentioned in this thread, that I missed).
* Ford mentions the "neighbours" noticing all the noise made by the earth moving equipment. Other parks? Medieval World? Future World?
* It didn't really stand out to me before, but it was interesting to note that when William is getting ready in the reception area it is revealed that there are hosts in the "real world" who are aware that they're hosts. Perhaps there are more that work with the company, but not as part of the park?
* Old Bill mentions "the lady in the white shoes". The hosts that introduce guests at the reception are wearing white shoes. Maybe a hint to something more?
* MiB's comment about the guy always being a prisoner, and setting him free. Is the ultimate goal of the park that you pass a test (the maze?) and get to keep one of the hosts as your very own "pet"? I'm kinda surprised that keeping hosts as servants isn't already a common thing outside of the park, but they've already hinted that hosts are kinda rare and special, like that kid making the comment, "You're one of them, aren't you? You're not real." He showed genuine surprise and wonder at meeting a host for the first time. Indicates that they're only found in the park.
* Total speculation here, but to add another theory to the above comment about being set free, could the park be a kind of proving ground for hosts? If they prove themselves in the park they earn the right to "freedom". When the prisoner says he will kill MiB he replies that might be still yet to come. Maybe MiB suspects that there's another layer to the park where hosts get full autonomy and there's real danger that a guest can die or be seriously injured. For someone like MiB who has been in the park for so long, he's probably seeking out that extra thrill
* Ford mentions the "neighbours" noticing all the noise made by the earth moving equipment. Other parks? Medieval World? Future World?
* It didn't really stand out to me before, but it was interesting to note that when William is getting ready in the reception area it is revealed that there are hosts in the "real world" who are aware that they're hosts. Perhaps there are more that work with the company, but not as part of the park?
* Old Bill mentions "the lady in the white shoes". The hosts that introduce guests at the reception are wearing white shoes. Maybe a hint to something more?
* MiB's comment about the guy always being a prisoner, and setting him free. Is the ultimate goal of the park that you pass a test (the maze?) and get to keep one of the hosts as your very own "pet"? I'm kinda surprised that keeping hosts as servants isn't already a common thing outside of the park, but they've already hinted that hosts are kinda rare and special, like that kid making the comment, "You're one of them, aren't you? You're not real." He showed genuine surprise and wonder at meeting a host for the first time. Indicates that they're only found in the park.
* Total speculation here, but to add another theory to the above comment about being set free, could the park be a kind of proving ground for hosts? If they prove themselves in the park they earn the right to "freedom". When the prisoner says he will kill MiB he replies that might be still yet to come. Maybe MiB suspects that there's another layer to the park where hosts get full autonomy and there's real danger that a guest can die or be seriously injured. For someone like MiB who has been in the park for so long, he's probably seeking out that extra thrill
Charles Brandon
Member
I disagree, I think it's fun. Potentially, it's like they give you one piece of information at the end of the season (hopefully not the end of the show) that makes you look at everything that has gone before in a different light.
Charles Brandon
Member
Maybe it was replaced/deleted for non-logo reasons and so they didn't bother to edit the logo
Another little detail that I love about this show are the tunes that are being played on the saloon piano - they're all real songs that have been changed slightly to suit the setting / instrument.
So far I've spotted:
Episode 1: Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden
Episode 2: No Surprises by Radiohead
I didn't recognise the songs in eps 3 and 4 so maybe someone can help me out if they heard them
So far I've spotted:
Episode 1: Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden
Episode 2: No Surprises by Radiohead
I didn't recognise the songs in eps 3 and 4 so maybe someone can help me out if they heard them
Just came here to see what the chat was... Glad I wasn't going mad thinking we might be jumping around in time. In fact the more I think about it the more it seems like it must be... Ed Harris is Arnold isn't he? And Arnold is of course dead when Hopkins character is older. But we keep seeing what Arnold is getting up to (got up to) while seeing characters like Delores having numerous moments of deja vu if past events then coming back to the 'present'.
Ed Harris is Arnold isn't he? Or have I massively missed something, lol? I'm terrible with names and paying attention to stuff like that and I've only watched each episode once.
Ed Harris is Arnold isn't he? Or have I massively missed something, lol? I'm terrible with names and paying attention to stuff like that and I've only watched each episode once.
I don't know what you're referring to. What have we been shown of Arnold's actions?
Well Ed Harris (Man in Black, or MiB) makes direct reference to Arnold in ep4 (when speaking to the woman with the snake tattoo), so unless he makes a habit of speaking in third person, they're probably different people.
Chuckie
Member
The fact remains that you have a scene/place where both logo's were used.
If the old logo is unintentional (and changed later because of marketing), then why was it not edited out in scenes that made it to the show, but was edited out of a scene that they didn't end up using?
I think it would be more probable that they came up with the old logo later but never bothered to edit it out of a scene they never used, hence that one still had the modern logo.
Charles Brandon
Member
Another little detail that I love about this show are the tunes that are being played on the saloon piano - they're all real songs that have been changed slightly to suit the setting / instrument.
So far I've spotted:
Episode 1: Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden
Episode 2: No Surprises by Radiohead
I didn't recognise the songs in eps 3 and 4 so maybe someone can help me out if they heard them
4: was A Forest by The Cure (apparently, I don't know that song)
Oldest Snake
Member
I definitely think figuring out the maze itself is the 'reward' and not the 'prize' at the end of it. Arnold put the maze into the park knowing that over time the hosts would be updated and that one day they would develop the skills needed to figure out the maze. Once they can complete the maze they will be 'conscious', the maze is a means for the hosts to free themselves. There's no golden egg at the end of it.
Awesome, thanks!
Charles Brandon
Member
oh yeah, I agree. I'm all aboard the logo/timeline train. Choo choo.
I think they know as well and that scene with Thor's brother was expressly designed to fuck with us.
oooh they're gonna confirm that the timeline theory is wrong oooh were there any guests with her? ooooh here it comes UNKNOWN what? Unknown? you cunts
Discotheque
Banned
i had a feeling it was an 80s song and i heard it before but thanks for narrowing it down. honestly it was the best piano cover in the series yet. sounded so good.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Do you guys think there is an Eastworld? Think about it. Maybe companion show before the inevitable crossover show?
Maybe Arnold is in charge of it and the hosts are the guests and the guests are the hosts.
Maybe Arnold is in charge of it and the hosts are the guests and the guests are the hosts.
Charles Brandon
Member
What would that be? New York? China?
That was a hilarious scene for people doing theorycrafting. I was so sure it was going to kill the theory right there, but bam, they just won't acknowledge William or Logan. The moment any human character on the show acknowledges the pair, the timeline theory is dead.
But this actually highlights a really Interesting thematic point - Dolores is effectively an immortal. For us to even entertain such a theory indicates how believable it is that Westworld and the hosts are in a way timeless. People can go there, leave, grow up, grow old, come back, and if a host is still there they'll be exactly the same.
Charles Brandon
Member
One thing I've been thinking about is this:
My personal take on the timeline thing is that the story of the two friends, William and his mate, is like a reboot of the movie. Their first appearance was almost a shot-for-shot remake of the start of the movie. Add in to that the reference to the "incident" of 30 yrs ago and the conclusion is that their stpryline will end up in the same place the movie did, with robots going haywire and people getting massacred, with the exception of William, who survives just liken his counterpart did in the film.
I like that idea because it's neat, it acknowledges the movie without being beholden to it and we get to see what happened afterwards without knowing at first that that is what we are seeing.
But there is a big problem with that. If events really did go wrong 'thirty years ago' and people got killed, wouldn't people in the 'present' know about it? Wouldn't it make the first-timers worry a bit? How would the park even survive an incident like that?
So either the 'incident' was covered up (which seems implausible) or it wasn't that bad to begin with, i.e. no one died.
What did Ford actually say about the incident? I seem to recall he mentioned it in episode one when he was talking to the old Wild Bill droid. Is that right?
My personal take on the timeline thing is that the story of the two friends, William and his mate, is like a reboot of the movie. Their first appearance was almost a shot-for-shot remake of the start of the movie. Add in to that the reference to the "incident" of 30 yrs ago and the conclusion is that their stpryline will end up in the same place the movie did, with robots going haywire and people getting massacred, with the exception of William, who survives just liken his counterpart did in the film.
I like that idea because it's neat, it acknowledges the movie without being beholden to it and we get to see what happened afterwards without knowing at first that that is what we are seeing.
But there is a big problem with that. If events really did go wrong 'thirty years ago' and people got killed, wouldn't people in the 'present' know about it? Wouldn't it make the first-timers worry a bit? How would the park even survive an incident like that?
So either the 'incident' was covered up (which seems implausible) or it wasn't that bad to begin with, i.e. no one died.
What did Ford actually say about the incident? I seem to recall he mentioned it in episode one when he was talking to the old Wild Bill droid. Is that right?
Arnold died!
Charles Brandon
Member
Hmmm, so the incident was Arnold's death "here in the park". Makes sense. Tried to give the robots too much free-will maybe?
Edit: I feel stupid now, of course that is what he was referring to.
Edit: I feel stupid now, of course that is what he was referring to.
In addition that other guest approached the MiB to thank him for helping his sister (rather, his charity or w/e did), which implies the MiB is probably extremely famous in the real world.
biggersmaller
Banned
My detailed theory is William becomes the motivation for pushing the boudries of Delores' programming and she falls in love with him. He marries his wealthy fiancé and takes control of the family business (hence the charity reference from Ep 4). Delores having a great effect on him, he becomes obsessed with Westworld and how it works, wanting a story with real stakes and becoming the MiB. He hears of Arnold via his financial stake and is the board representative mentioned by Ford.
William picking-up the dropped can for Delores was originally unscripted and happened 30 years ago. William leaving emotionally effects Delores and Ford writes the "waiting-for-William" loop with Teddy as the surrogate to control Delores while retaining her (then) unique evolution. When MiB dragged her into the barn, he was gathering clues for the maze and not raping her. Yet, he doesn't know how much he truly affected her programming - so whatever he did he did it without guilt as she was just another drone.
When MiB becomes aware of the evolution of the hosts, he will become their leader in a bloody uprising.
William picking-up the dropped can for Delores was originally unscripted and happened 30 years ago. William leaving emotionally effects Delores and Ford writes the "waiting-for-William" loop with Teddy as the surrogate to control Delores while retaining her (then) unique evolution. When MiB dragged her into the barn, he was gathering clues for the maze and not raping her. Yet, he doesn't know how much he truly affected her programming - so whatever he did he did it without guilt as she was just another drone.
When MiB becomes aware of the evolution of the hosts, he will become their leader in a bloody uprising.
Charles Brandon
Member
That's nice. My only issue is that William looks nothing NOTHING like Ed Harris. But I suppose that sort of thing happens on TV all the time.
Thing is, the actor playing William always gives me that creepy as shit vibe no matter what character he plays, so I could totally see him turning into MiB.
Though the multiple timeline theory seems almost overly complicated to be true.
Edit: was also going to write it'd be too much Lost over it. then I remembered. JJ Abrams is producing, so, I guess I could buy the timeline theory.