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[RatskyWatsky]

For posterity:

L+SD ratings

Episode 1: 1.96 million
Episode 2: 1.50 million
Episode 3: 2.10 million
Episode 4: 1.70 million

Yep, looks like TWD took a bite out of the live ratings~

 

[jett]

For posterity:

L+SD ratings

Episode 1: 1.96 million
Episode 2: 1.50 million
Episode 3: 2.10 million
Episode 4: 1.70 million

Yep, looks like TWD took a bite out of the live ratings~

Totally not surprising.

As a sidenote, Game of Thrones has never gone against TWD.

 

[More_Badass]

Totally not surprising.

As a sidenote, Game of Thrones has never gone against TWD.

Even HBO ain't stupid

 

[Chuckie]

I've rewatched the first two episodes because of the different times theory just to look for clues and I noticed (this is probably already mentioned 100 times in this thread...sorry) that the Westworld logo seen when William enters is different from the W/ logo you see on a pillar where Ford walks and in that one guys presentation of his new scenario. Could be a hint.

 

[Ledsen]

If Bernard is a host and the entire narrative is actually part of Ford's storyline I shall be sad.

 

[shira]

I don't get why people think William's storyline is a flashback. Did I miss something?

When William debarks the white train in ep 2 that area (where he meets Talulah Riley)

looks exactly like the area in ep 1 where they go to sublevel 83 and find Ford has broken into the area for decommissioned hosts to have a drink.

They also keep talking about 30 years ago and reference the Westworld movie constantly

So I mean they could be fucking with us or not.

 

[More_Badass]

When William debarks the white train in ep 2 that area (where he meets Talulah Riley)

looks exactly like the area in ep 1 where they go to sublevel 83 and find Ford has broken into the area for decommissioned hosts to have a drink.

They also keep talking about 30 years ago and reference the Westworld movie constantly

So I mean they could be fucking with us or not.

Also the same logo in the Arnold flashbacks

 

[#1 defender]

When William debarks the white train in ep 2 that area (where he meets Talulah Riley)

looks exactly like the area in ep 1 where they go to sublevel 83 and find Ford has broken into the area for decommissioned hosts to have a drink.

Other than both having escalators, they look nothing alike.

Edit:

Also the same logo in the Arnold flashbacks

Now that is a much more convincing argument.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

So I re-watched the scene where Dolores is in the village a couple of times, and took some screen shots.

The little girl 'suddenly' appears on the fountain. Nothing else changes. The little girl 'suddenly' vanishes in the same way. Nothing else changes. The horses in the background are in the same position/same orientation. Dirt clods are the same on the ground even. The only thing different is the little girl is missing and the dirt drawing of the maze is missing.

The shots are not exactly 1:1 so there is a very small chance for variation, but I'd say 99% that they cannot be two different time frames. Even if the towns people are on a loop, the dirt is going to get mussed up a little bit over time.

This means.. the little girl.. is what? Imaginary? The MiB clearly saw/talked to her. For her to disappear like this means.. well I don't know what it means.

Also, the little girl was at "The Church", wearing a different outfit. She wears the same outfit when she meets the MiB and when she talks to Dolores.

When Dolores is 'flashing back' to the Church scenes. It appears she's kneeling at a grave with a Priest. It looks like she gets a gun out of the grave. The gun appears to be the same as the one she digs out of the dirt in EP2. The grave is also marked with a cross that says "DOLORES (something)".

Edit: That livestock graphic showed people got buried, which dropped them into the processing plant to get refurbished for the next loop. Wonder if this is where she goes when she dies?

 

[Jim]

Any thoughts on why Hector had some information regarding The Shade, Westworld's clean-up crew (or the supposed mythology behind them), to share with Maeve? Either he was programmed with that knowledge or he too is remembering things I suppose.

Fake edit: I had no idea that Hector was Xerxes from 300

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Any thoughts on why Hector had some information regarding The Shade, Westworld's clean-up crew (or the supposed mythology behind them), to share with Maeve? Either he was programmed with that knowledge or he too is remembering things I suppose.

Fake edit: I had no idea that Hector was Xerxes from 300

I think it was said that he hangs out with the Natives/Indians/etc, that is why Maeve went to talk to him when she saw him. I'm guessing this is during the off-loop time or something? They could have programmed it, or he could have picked it up as he tries to "be more human" maybe?

 

[More_Badass]

Any thoughts on why Hector had some information regarding The Shade, Westworld's clean-up crew (or the supposed mythology behind them), to share with Maeve? Either he was programmed with that knowledge or he too is remembering things I suppose.

Fake edit: I had no idea that Hector was Xerxes from 300

Wow, I never would have guessed

 

[Santiako]

He was also Paulo in LOST, from the infamous Paulo and Nikki episode.

 

[NeoGiff]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

So are there 3 timelines we're seeing?

 

[Rentahamster]

A line that strikes me as interesting from episode 1:

When Bernard is talking to Ford about human evolution, Ford makes a comment that this is as good as humans are ever going to get. A possible motivation for Ford wanting hosts to surpass human potential?

 

[Captain Zyrain]

A line that strikes me as interesting from episode 1:

When Bernard is talking to Ford about human evolution, Ford makes a comment that this is as good as humans are ever going to get. A possible motivation for Ford wanting hosts to surpass human potential?

Either that, or this is as good as they're ever going to get because humans are gaming the system and have no incentive or outside force compelling them to evolve. Maybe letting the hosts become the dominant force would (eventually) compel humans to evolve some more?

 

[WonderPup]

Regarding William being the Man in Black, I don't think it's possible. They appear to be telling a linear story. If it isn't linear, that will make the subsequent seasons (there will be seasons) feel strange.

Spoiler

Also, Dolores and Teddy encountered Wyatt. Dolores ran off and found William. Teddy ended up getting strung up and ran into the Man in Black again. That whole portion of the story seemed pretty linear.

 

[More_Badass]

Regarding William being the Man in Black, I don't think it's possible. They appear to be telling a linear story. If it isn't linear, that will make the subsequent seasons (there will be seasons) feel strange.

Spoiler

Also, William goes out after Dolores and Teddy encountered Wyatt. Dolores ran off and found William. Teddy ended up getting strung up and ran into the Man in Black again. That whole portion of the story seemed pretty linear.

The dual timeline would only apply this season because it would explore the critical failure 30 years ago and what happened to Arnold. The other seasons will likely leave the park behind

 

[Palmer_v1]

He was also Paulo in LOST, from the infamous Paulo and Nikki episode.

Goddamn, that still triggers me even after all this time.

 

[Neoweee]

Why are they being so coy about the MiB's name and identity, if not for some twist? It's a dumb twist/cliche/trope. Is it going to build up to a throwaway line in the season finale, like HRG/Noah in Heroes? Or go nowhere like MiB in Lost?

 

[shira]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

There was gaps in shooting after they halted production to rework the script/story.

Or 3rd timeline

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

There was gaps in shooting after they halted production to rework the script/story.

Or 3rd timeline

Ah yes, the infamous "Barber of Time failed" timeline.

 

[Burt]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

I know what I said about timelines before

but this haircut thing has actually shaken me

 

[Rentahamster]

Another thing I noticed from episode 1: When MiB scalps the dealer, he mentions, "There's a lot of wisdom in ancient cultures. Maybe it's time to dig deeper into yours".

That comment, along with the hazmat suit doll from episode 4, sounds like there's a lot of hidden stuff buried within the native lore that serves as a connection to deeper levels, or the real world. It could either be emergent lore, built up over time, off of memory fragments. Or it could be intentionally placed. By Arnold, perhaps. Maybe a mix of both.

 

[Helensmith]

When Delores wakes up near the start of the episode, she looks at a gun in her hand. If she fired that one, doesn't that mean she's in the present timeline because she's gone past her programming?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Fake edit: I had no idea that Hector was Xerxes from 300

Ahh! So he is.

He was also Paulo in LOST, from the infamous Paulo and Nikki episode.

noooo

 

[-griffy-]

Has it been discussed how Dolores is essentially a typical female character in these types of dramas (woman in love who exists to be a prize for the heroes/villains) who is becoming self aware of her pigeon-holed existence and breaking out of the shackles imposed by her creators to become what she actually wants to be rather than how she was written? Because it's very good.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Paulo was in 7 episodes of Lost by the way guys, not 1 lol (Nikki was in 6).

Another thing I noticed from episode 1: When MiB scalps the dealer, he mentions, "There's a lot of wisdom in ancient cultures. Maybe it's time to dig deeper into yours".

That comment, along with the hazmat suit doll from episode 4, sounds like there's a lot of hidden stuff buried within the native lore that serves as a connection to deeper levels, or the real world. It could either be emergent lore, built up over time, off of memory fragments. Or it could be intentionally placed. By Arnold, perhaps. Maybe a mix of both.

I'd say all of that is likely accurate. Though additionally, I think there's a chance that the Shade was intentionally incorporated into the lore as a religious explanation for certain memories. It's better that the hosts believe ancient lore of supernatural creatures than to figure out just what exactly is really going on. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Shade doll got dropped in front of Maeve as an in-fiction way to calm her down a little, and it may have worked had she not found the bullet in her body that reconfirmed he quickly growing doubts of reality.

 

[More_Badass]

Has it been discussed how Dolores is essentially a typical female character in these types of dramas (woman in love who exists to be a prize for the heroes/villains) who is becoming self aware of her pigeon-holed existence and breaking out of the shackles imposed by her creators to become what she actually wants to be rather than how she was written? Because it's very good.

The show's plot has a clever amount of depth when you consider it

===

Isn't this show also tackling religious dogma by having its gods by uncaring beings who care little about their creations and religion be a fabricated artificial construct rather something born from faith

 

[jett]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

lol

That's one way to spot this show's troubled production.

 

[#1 defender]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

I've also noticed the length of Jeffrey Wright's hair and beard changing in one of the previous episodes. Also, Anthony Hopkins hairstyle is all over the place from episode to episode, but i suppose that could just be down to his hairdresser.

 

[Makai]

Last episode killed the logo theory, guys

 

[Santiako]

Last episode killed the logo theory, guys

In what way.?

 

[Curt Baboon]

Wow, I never would have guessed

WHAT?! Holy shit!

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

The different logos... The haircuts... The difference in effect of guns on MiB and William...

I've got it! It all makes sense now!

The producers of this TV show are just really sloppy!

 

[Makai]

In what way.?

Staff tried to recall Dolores.

 

[Killthee]

Any thoughts on why Hector had some information regarding The Shade, Westworld's clean-up crew (or the supposed mythology behind them), to share with Maeve? Either he was programmed with that knowledge or he too is remembering things I suppose.

Fake edit: I had no idea that Hector was Xerxes from 300

The MiB calls Hector half native so presumably he's programmed with a native backstory.

 

[The Mule]

Isn't the William flashback theory also debunked because all the robots he's interacting with are able to act so naturally?

If it really was a flashback to Westworld 30+ years ago, wouldn't the robots behave/move like Old Bill?

 

[Santiako]

Staff tried to recall Dolores.

Yeah, but they avoid mentioning if they're recalling her while she's with William or not:

- We've got a host making a pretty
big deviation from her loop.

- Which one?
- The rancher's daughter from Sweetwater.

- Dolores.

- Is she accompanying a guest?
- Unclear.

-The boss is disrupting so many storylines
with his new narrative, it's hard to tell.

- Flag her with behavior.
They can pull her today.

Her parts with William could still be easily in the past.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

Holy shit

 

[Makai]

Isn't the William flashback theory also debunked because all the robots he's interacting with are able to act so naturally?

If it really was a flashback to Westworld 30+ years ago, wouldn't the robots behave/move like Old Bill?

Old Bill is the prototype. We've seen a flashback with normal moving robots.

 

[Neoweee]

Old Bill is the prototype. We've seen a flashback with normal moving robots.

More importantly, we've seen recognizable Hosts. Armistice (snake lady) is dancing in the old-timey Arnold flashback, and Ms. Musk (the Host that escorts William) is in the same origins flashback sequence.

 

[geomon]

God, I love this fucking show.

 

[Rentahamster]

A line that strikes me as interesting from episode 1:

When Bernard is talking to Ford about human evolution, Ford makes a comment that this is as good as humans are ever going to get. A possible motivation for Ford wanting hosts to surpass human potential?

Another thing I noticed from episode 1: When MiB scalps the dealer, he mentions, "There's a lot of wisdom in ancient cultures. Maybe it's time to dig deeper into yours".

That comment, along with the hazmat suit doll from episode 4, sounds like there's a lot of hidden stuff buried within the native lore that serves as a connection to deeper levels, or the real world. It could either be emergent lore, built up over time, off of memory fragments. Or it could be intentionally placed. By Arnold, perhaps. Maybe a mix of both.

And one more note:

When Bernard talks to Ford in episode 3, Ford draws a pyramid of consciousness. Memory on the bottom, then improvisation, then self interest, then ???

So far, we've seen memory become stronger in certain hosts. Then we've seen emerging improvisational behavior in hosts like Dolores and Maeve. Also, hosts breaking past their coded restrictions to act in their own self interest.

 

[Burt]

And one more note:

When Bernard talks to Ford in episode 3, Ford draws a pyramid of consciousness. Memory on the bottom, then improvisation, then self interest, then ???

So far, we've seen memory become stronger in certain hosts. Then we've seen emerging improvisational behavior in hosts like Dolores and Maeve. Also, hosts breaking past their coded restrictions to act in their own self interest.

Not gonna lie, I spent like 20 minutes trying to figure out what the phrase "FRAME AGANT" meant on that chalkboard.

 

[Rentahamster]

Not gonna lie, I spent like 20 minutes trying to figure out what the phrase "FRAME AGANT" meant on that chalkboard.

What is that supposed to be, anyway? lol

 

[The Mule]

Not gonna lie, I spent like 20 minutes trying to figure out what the phrase "FRAME AGANT" meant on that chalkboard.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/agant

third-person plural present active subjunctive of agō

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ago#Latin

Best I could manage.

 

[Rentahamster]

It's funny how googling "frame agant" takes me to this thread.

 

[Santiako]

It's probably a typo, and it's supposed to say "frame agent", as the other text bubbles are talking about agency.