Aaronrules380
Member
You realize Death Note is also Shonen lol. The manga even ran in Weekly Shonen Jump
This is why I find it hilarious when people complain about shonen
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
what happened to anime?
- Thread starter What A Time To Be Alive
- Start date
You realize Death Note is also Shonen lol. The manga even ran in Weekly Shonen Jump
This is why I find it hilarious when people complain about shonen
Man I had no idea if that Trigun post is serious or not, but if it is use a better gif at least lol
Seriously, I don't see the appeal in the anime cutscenes when:
1. Not greatly animated or impressive (Like on that I enjoyed)
2. Left no impact/had no significant purpose.
All of them could be done in cg.
Seriously, I don't see the appeal in the anime cutscenes when:
1. Not greatly animated or impressive (Like on that I enjoyed)
2. Left no impact/had no significant purpose.
All of them could be done in cg.
This is the most hilarious shit because these are the most anime anime in history. All great, but I can think of dozens just as great.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I steadily got pushed out of watching anime regularly around 2008-ish. I was watching several series weekly every anime season, but then I just noticed less and less I actually cared to even try as the seasons went on. Still some great stuff out there, but it's easier to just let it come to me now instead of swimming through an ocean of high school harem shows.
You should try Gundam Iron Blood Orphans. Great show and doesn't have crazy amounts of fanservice or anything.
Movies, rather than series, seem to be where anime is moving lately.
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/01/02/anime-financials-2016/
I think that, at the very least, there is a movement towards more diverse stories in anime movies lately.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
There is no doubt that the methods of making anime have changed, in addition to trends in artistic styles and the like. Anyone who says "anime hasn't changed" is wrong. I can't begrudge anyone for preferring the look of cel over digital animation; because the distinctive elements of the former cannot be perfectly replicated by the latter.
I can't say that the art and animation have gotten worse though. That was somewhat true during the early 2000s at the beginning of the transition into digital production, as there was quite a bit of clumsiness overall when adjusting to the new technology. It's not true now though. Of course there will always be low-quality productions when people with lesser talent or motivation are involved, and the tight schedules of the industry can lead to polishing problems in TV anime. But there is a considerable number of great looking anime being made right now, with strong animation, art direction, and digital composition. The top tier of production at the moment take full advantage of digital techniques to make great-looking animation that couldn't be replicated by cel work. I'll just reference a few of my favorite examples:
Eccentric Family Season 2
Bungo Stray Dogs
Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju Season 2
Mob Psycho 100
Fafner Exodus
I could go on, but you get the picture. All of these images are good examples of how digital tools are being harnessed by today's animators and artists to create beautiful and emotionally powerful images, and they come from shows which are overall excellent in that department. Sakuga Blog is a good resource for what's going on in the present world of Japanese animation production, if you're interested in reading more.
Again, I'm not going to begrudge anyone their aesthetic preferences for one period of art over another - that's totally fair - but it's not fair to the skills and output of the best people working in today's anime industry to consider all of their work to be poorly made.
billy beane
Banned
Just do what I do op and watch Cowboy Bebop over and over again.
Twilight Gap
Member
It's really hard to find a show these days that has good characters, good art, good animation, good music and a good story while not being riddled with japanese tropes or otherwise uniquely annoying east-centric decisions. I miss the watching shows that were instantly rewatchable.
I often have one of these threads open in a tab somewhere and it's been fruitless. I try a couple of shows that are mentioned and... nope. Ping Pong is the exception, that was worthwhile.
To all of you saying we grew up, anime hasn't changed: I'll grant you that I haven't seen Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, and FLCL in a long time, but I expect they hold up. There's plenty to cringe at, I did back then as well, it's not like I was 12 when I watched those shows, but I wouldn't dismiss them for it.
At this point, if someone with taste(ok similar taste) has a well curated list of recommendations, I'll give it a try. But let's not conflate the greats with Battleship Miyamoto or whatever you kids like, I'm not about that.
To all of you saying we grew up, anime hasn't changed: I'll grant you that I haven't seen Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, and FLCL in a long time, but I expect they hold up. There's plenty to cringe at, I did back then as well, it's not like I was 12 when I watched those shows, but I wouldn't dismiss them for it.
At this point, if someone with taste(ok similar taste) has a well curated list of recommendations, I'll give it a try. But let's not conflate the greats with Battleship Miyamoto or whatever you kids like, I'm not about that.
Heh, everyone that's seen a good amount of anime in their lifetime should watch this. Great show that makes you further appreciate how hard it can be to make a decent anime, much less a quality one. It's a bit romanticized, but still a good watch.
Well, what are you looking for? Shows like the 3 you listed?
John Kowalski
Banned
Truth is nothing will ever be as good as you're hoping they are. You think Ping Pong is as good as the great animes of old? It's not, it's much better. If that's the kind of quality you're expecting, you're gonna spend your life searching for it, be it in books, shows, games, whatever.
I've got exactly what you're looking for, OP.
You're welcome.
This. So much. I do have to say the manga is better, mainly because it's totally serious, yet the dialogue is still stupid as fuck. It's great.
And I mean that. I loved Ninja Slayer.
michaelius
Banned
I enjoyed Attack on Titan when it had some action going on. But it's like 90% drama, 10% action. It's so absurdly paced.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Sumio Mondo
Member
Just read Manga instead.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
There's always too many shows to watch every season.
No matter how much I try to cut down I'll always end up with like 3-5 minimum.
No matter how much I try to cut down I'll always end up with like 3-5 minimum.
Those 3 are exemplary, sure.
I'm sorry, I meant the new(relatively new) one. It's in space and it sucks.
It's different. The Ghost in the Shell series(2 seasons I think?) isn't trying to do character development the same way. Now, where does Ping Pong stack up against books and shows that are similar thematically? It's worthwhile, I meant that as a compliment.
I don't mean a small subset like one season or a year. Again, I don't have a comprehensive picture of the industry over the last 10 years or whatever, but it has been my experience to try a handful of shows every couple of years and if they're not outright bad, they don't hold my attention.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
What A Time To Be Alive
Unless you like anime
(Yesterday, 11:21 AM)
Unless you like anime
(Yesterday, 11:21 AM)
It had the year 2199, so yes? Again, if that's a reboot of an older show, I don't mean the original. I don't mean to pounce on Yamato 2199 especially either, it was just the title that came to mind.
I think Attack on Titan could be fun, but the melodrama was rough.
This. Stop whining, go watch Monster.
The adoption of puppetry and replacement techniques in digital environments combined with the fact that anime still relies on low frame rates (which means less drawings) doesn't point to practice being an issue. It's that the economic and social issues surrounding the industry itself are not conducive to producing good and/or appealing art on the regular, and on top of that what counts as the generic "default" anime style has shifted regardless. The look of most modern anime- that shiny, inoffensive, less expressive, light novel style- just fucking annoys me, and it would annoy me even if we still animated on paper.
It is not economically feasible for the animation industry in any country to create tools and workflows that do nothing but try to perfectly recreate the look of paper animation to the point where both would be indecipherable when it would be cheaper in the face of such a ridiculous goal to just move back to a paper pipeline. The industry has merely moved on to an environment that plays to digital's strengths in the way western theatrical animation has moved on to 3D. I would also wager that the look I desire would be impossible to capture exactly anyways because- again- the very fact that is the drawing tools are different is simply insurmountable. Drawing on a screen will literally never physically feel the same as drawing on a sheet of paper, even if the computer underneath is doing its very best to render your lines in such a way that it's not so mathematically perfect. Don't assume that computers can do everything.
You're being dismissive. I'm not asking for a thesis. I'm saying the conclusion that "Anime is and always has been shit" doesn't produce even a modicum of interesting discussion when people are discussing the changes between old and new anime of which the baseline quality of the medium as a whole doesn't have as much relevance to that discussion as you're putting on. Seriously, if you believe that's the case what's the point in even talking to me?
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
honestly surprised this thread is alive
didn't think it was that serious
trying to watch jojo again and im liking it a little bit more then last time i tried to watch it but ehhh idk.
trying some of these other recommendations too :3
didn't think it was that serious
trying to watch jojo again and im liking it a little bit more then last time i tried to watch it but ehhh idk.
trying some of these other recommendations too :3
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It doesn't.
Any threads that allow people to run in and say "Yeah, anime sucks these days!" will gather a fair bit of conversation.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Anime disagreements are like on the top ten list.
Up there with console wars.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I can't necessarily speak directly to practice, as I'm not an animator. But, for purposes of reflection, were the social and economic issues conducive in the past? It seems like this is a classically overworked and underpaid area of production, and from my perspective the art doesn't seem better or worse nearly so much as it's different. I agree with you in that I think the difference has created a very plastic-looking style that's far too common, but that too is a reflection on the cultural values of modern society. The amount of anime, the production-line construction of it is a reflection on that society, and in truth I don't think that has ever really disappeared. Digital, I think, just points out the inherent issues of anime as an industry that can't move as fast as demand. The production of anime is far more a reflection of society at this point than the product. I don't think that, historically, this is all that different or unexpected. It's a history, not repeating itself, but rhyming.
20 or 30 years ago it wasn't economically feasible to make digital animation. As for the animation industry attempting to make it look that way, no, I don't think it will be them, I think it will be the art industry more generally that demands those functionalities in the future. And a pen that feels like a pencil, and digital paper that feels like regular paper. Saying it's not possible seems like a denial of how much has changed in a few short decades. I'm also not assuming that computers can do everything, but I am saying that computers can create situations where one has to make decisions about their preference rather than their expectations. Right now we expect that drawing on a computer won't be the same experience as drawing with physical materials. But that may not always be the case.
I don't think I'm being dismissive. Sturgeon's law applies here, and I don't think that should be discounted. At the same time, if we're only talking about the upper echelons of quality in anime, rather than the wider field, the discussion changes quite a bit (or if we're just talking about the stuff in the middle, or the lows and the highs, etc.). We haven't really set the stage for a discussion of the field. What I'm curious about has a lot more to do with the net being cast and what's going to be caught up in that. The lowest end of hand drawn animation is going to look just as bad as digital animation, it will just be bad in a different way. So if we're comparing the old and the new, what are the parameters? Are we talking about certain years? Decades? What shows in those years/decades are indicative of the problem you see? Why? And these are just some of the questions we would need to discuss in order to get to an understanding of what the baseline is. It's difficult to say we have a wider view without first coming to an understanding of what we're looking at. But that's what I want to know and why I'm having the conversation. What we're looking at. What's indicative of the problems we see in anime.
petran79
Banned
Watched the 1985 movie A Penguin's Memory. Same years as Galactic Railroad.
I cant believe such a movie wasnt made by an American animation studio but by Japanese instead. Probably never will. Dealing with the traumatic experience of the Vietnam War and adapting back to society, I didnt expect that a non-American adaptation would be so masterfully done.
No pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo either, just the poetry of Randall James.
Fortunatelly it is impossible to watch all old series and movies, so I could watch forever.
I cant believe such a movie wasnt made by an American animation studio but by Japanese instead. Probably never will. Dealing with the traumatic experience of the Vietnam War and adapting back to society, I didnt expect that a non-American adaptation would be so masterfully done.
No pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo either, just the poetry of Randall James.
Fortunatelly it is impossible to watch all old series and movies, so I could watch forever.
yanipheonu
Member
Just_myles
Member
Shit still looks cool. I don't give a fuck.
Well..to be honest, combining nazi with loli gave us this year's best anime so far
Youjo Senki
Nah. Best thus far is either Kado or Re:creators.
Thankfully both are originals and not light novel adapatations as far as I know.
Turin Turambar
Member
Every year there are 2-4 good anime series. The other 90% is crap.
I suspect that if we look into the 90s, that ratio would still be similar.
I suspect that if we look into the 90s, that ratio would still be similar.