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[SpinningBirdKick]

The industry grew up.

Along with those bigger profits and huge blockbusters came the usual dose of corporate messaging, bullshit and ass covering.

There's no way back, you can't put the genie back into the bottle.

 

[Bedlam]

It's funny how parts of the enthusiast press suddenly realize they are completely living by the grace of publishers and are now throwing a tantrum about it. For years, even decades, "game journalism" was nothing but a race of who could crawl deeper up a publisher's ass to get the earliest review copies, resulting in reviews that were nothing but unison circle-jerk to please those publishers. Suddenly they are cut off in certain ways and they can't do anything about it. They don't even dare to openly speak about it. That should tell you everything. Our enthusiast press is a joke and just now, they start to realize it.

Maybe it's time for a paradigm shift, press guys. Maybe it's time some of you start acting like actual journalists and stop playing ball with the industry. Say what you want to say, stop being concerned about early review copies and black lists. Start producing worthwile content that has more going for it than your outlet being among the first few hundreds of outlets to show a game (and all you had to do for it is sign a bunch of NDAs and promise to not speak too negatively about it). Grow a pair and become a consumer's advocate instead of the PR mouthpiece in disguise that you've been for years. There is a reason why youtube personalities like Angry Joe etc. are taking off without taking part in the race for review copies while conventional outlets are struggling: it's because you guys didn't do a good enough and honest enough job covering the industry.

What irks me is that in this instance apparently only a couple of journalists are affected, among them the Sess who is a good guy. Still, the enthusiast press as a whole maneuvered itself into this completely powerless position and when shit like this happens, still no one dares to openly discuss it because they are scared as shit about getting blacklisted.

 

[Yagharek]

The industry grew up.

Along with those bigger profits and huge blockbusters came the usual dose of corporate messaging, bullshit and ass covering.

There's no way back, you can't put the genie back into the bottle.

'Grew up' is the antithesis of what happened.

A better way to say would be that it became co-opted by shortsighted investment types who strive to make as much money with a standard formula as possible.

The creative explosion of the early 80s/90s and nascent technological potential has been hijacked.

 

[Turin Turambar]

1 Stop over reacting.
2 Wait until the products actually launch to the market.
3 Then research all the info you want.
4 ?
5 Profit! (i.e. buy whatever you want)

 

[Porcile]

Anyone suggesting consumers have an obligation to bend over to whims over mega-corporations just because are a complete fool. Journalist should of called out these companies a long time ago. They didn't, and now it's spiraled out of control. Gaming press is a total joke at this point.

 

[SparkTR]

1 Stop over reacting.
2 Wait until the products actually launch to the market.
3 Then research all the info you want.
4 ?
5 Profit! (i.e. buy whatever you want)

No time to think, gotta jump on that hype train.

 

[Chindogg]

For some odd reason game companies are trying to be movie and TV companies. The majority have placed more focus on story, production, and marketing than the actual gameplay and companies are starting to pay for that trend.

Medium companies can no longer compete to fill the requirements of mass amounts of FMV, famous voice acting talent, and professional Hollywood writers to drive their narratives. The profit margins on some of these games have become so razor thin that even selling 3 million units is considered a failure by most standards now.

What's left is very similar to the US economy: The middle class disappeared.

 

[Porcile]

1 Stop over reacting.
2 Wait until the products actually launch to the market.
3 Then research all the info you want.
4 ?
5 Profit! (i.e. buy whatever you want)

You can ignore reviews all you want, that's fine. Some people are actually interested in the minutiae of the industry and gaming press should be the ones spearheading a movement to get that access. Arguably, they are the ones closest to the industry without being actual developers. Why the fuck is that Nintendo does more interesting and revealing features than the gaming press? In any journalistic world, this makes no sense at all. In the gaming press they've been content to regurgitate the same old bullshit over and over again for years. Making excuses for their failings, when arguably they're the ones who should be calling these companies out. They are a free press after all.

 

[HovaHovito]

Game journalism does not really exist anymore, and perhaps never did in this industry. The sites and the people are nothing more than extended marketing tools for publishers to use, they all want the next scoop but have to play by the rules in order to even get the review copy/interview/media.

Consumers have finally figured this out, most know about this, once you were dismissed as a crazed conspirator by even suggesting this, it took us several incidents to get here, Gerstmann getting fired by GameSpot being a major one.

When they were defending Microsofts abysmal DRM policies, it finally broke the camels back, people stop giving a shit and decided to raise hell on their own, because these people were not doing it "oh it sounds kinda interesting, always online, oh yeah nice feature". They were being outright condescending, saying they were just the minority who did not care, yet MS ended up 180 all of it, showing that the outrage and it spilling to the mainstream did matter and it was not just a small minority but large amounts of people who did care.

Enough is enough. So enthusiast gamers became the journalist, its the only place where actual news is found these days and not marketing influenced preview builds. If they cannot and will not do their jobs, then the average consumer has to, because the truth and the details are important.

So what happened? The enthusiast consumer became the journalist, while the "journalist" has blended in with the rest of all the publishers. Slick talk, marketing buzz words, phoney smile infront of the camera.

EDIT: Example: Not a single journalist came to the consumers side when Skyrim on PS3 launched and was riddled with bugs and slowdowns, not one dared criticize Bethesda or warn the consumer about this version, the game even got the same score on many sites. The fucks they gave were zero, nada, nothing. It was only months later, after the hype marketing train was over, after people bought the game, that they ran small stories about it, never really giving Bethesda the absolute hell they deserved. Despicable

This is 100% correct.

 

[valouris]

I don't get the people that brush off this matter with sth like "it's just video games", or "we are getting good videogames, so I don't care".

We do not know what we are getting, until we get it. Journalists and the corporations themselves are the only source of information until launch.

When I am getting sugar-coated previews/reviews/editorials etc, while important questions are ignored/bypassed/vaguely answered, it is clear that I am not getting the full picture. It is disturbing that I can't get some information a measly month before launch. It shows that they are trying to hide stuff, and that is pretty disturbing.

The same thing happened with Rome II. Huge following, huge release, huge budget, info on some matters was scarce even 1-2 weeks before release, all the previews were glowing (no info whatsoever on the huge performance issues, glaring glitches, crashes, feature omissions). Huge pre-order numbers. The game was not even ready. It is getting huge weekly patches, adding and fixing features that have been in the series since the first Shogun, 10 years ago. Units on higher ground didn't have an advantage until patch friggin 4, the game went 4 weeks with units fighting uphill havning bonuses against units fighting downhill for crying out loud.

And this time we are talking about 400-500 dollar boxes.

Sure, you can say that if someone is concerned about stuff like this should not pre-order, and wait until after the consoles launches to get it. But they still let you pre-order, even if you don't get the full picture.That imo is just plain wrong. I remember the backlash Wii U got after it launched with the day one patch and the OS problems. Let's see what will happen this time. I'm not saying it is going to be a complete catastrophe, I do not expect that. But the truth is that nobody buying the stuff knows. And that is wrong, and pretty damn scary.

 

[Jburton]

There really is no such thing as a "gaming" journalist, you can have a critic, a commentator but journalist ....... nope.


In general all they do is regurgitate publisher / developer PR.

Also because of the fear of being ostracised and excluded they will almost always toe the line.




After 25 years of reading magazines etc through to websites I have never seen a gaming journalist.

 

[Usobuko]

Great question.

I've read reviews for several high profile games where all they praise is the story. The gameplay is rarely mentioned. These games have all gotten 10s, I just think its a sad day when a game can get such a high score when the gameplay is derivative, repetitive and shallow.

Will you share the same opinion on Ryse if that turns out be what you loathe?

 

[Some Nobody]

The problem is that the "Fourth Estate" is, by and large, non-existent for certain sections of the entertainment industry. If you're a comic fan there's a similar situation--there's tons of sites, tons of content, but every interview always reads the fucking same: "Oh we've got some great stuff planned, but we can't talk about it," or "Man the artist/writer is amazing, I've always wanted to work with them!", and then the book comes out and the story's garbage or the art's terrible. It's gotten so that I pretty much rely on a gossip site to get all my (surprisingly far more accurate) news.

Gaming's about the same. And all this discussion and most of you have barely scratched on why. Here you go. The reason there's very little real journalism is simple; we are the hardcore, we are the minority, and they don't need us.

Now there are other major factors, but it pretty much breaks down to the websites needing the companies more than vice-versa. It was different when there were magazines and the information was available for anyone who went down every aisle of the grocery store. Now the only way to get information for the most part is to visit a website and really, who has time for that, except the core gamers?

At the end of the day, games (and comics, honestly) are set-up in a different way from other forms of media like movies/music, and that's what allows the companies to exploit the journalists. For one, the majority of their profit comes from people who will never check out a review, or discuss games with anyone else other than like-minded people. Word of mouth can sink a movie over the course of a weekend, something that simply can't happen with a CoD or a Madden, even though every year there are more gamers talking about how "all they did was update the roster/change the maps a little".

And music? LOL. Leaks of albums happen weeks before they come out with regularity. It takes the most extreme amounts of effort to keep this from happening, but the end result is most artists don't try and thus before the album ever hits store shelves people already know what they're in for. With games? It's a rarity, and when it does happen? Someone is fired within a few hours, making occurrences less and less likely.

By the by: All the people using the word entitled in this thread? Slap yourselves. You are part of the problem. It's not "just games", it's a system in which we don't hold corporations accountable for their actions and the products they create. When you spend money on something you ARE entitled to know about that product. You say "wait until it's out"? What an ingenius idea! Except they NEED our pre-orders (and they know it), and use them as indicators of how a product release is going/might go, so it honestly makes zero sense for them to keep us in the dark about anything. Other than the fact that we let them.

Apologies for any syntax errors--I wrote this at 6AM, and no I have not been to sleep yet.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I still dont understand why rich got a job at golinharris..kinda spooky.

 

[Bedlam]

I don't get the people that brush off this matter with sth like "it's just video games", or "we are getting good videogames, so I don't care".

We do not know what we are getting, until we get it. Journalists and the corporations themselves are the only source of information until launch.

When I am getting sugar-coated previews/reviews/editorials etc, while important questions are ignored/bypassed/vaguely answered, it is clear that I am not getting the full picture. It is disturbing that I can't get some information a measly month before launch. It shows that they are trying to hide stuff, and that is pretty disturbing.

The problem goes back to the consumer who pre-orders stuff months in advance and demands reviews ahead of release. Those kind of reviews will always be sugar-coated and will never provide the consumer with a full picture because publishers call the shots. Those reviews are ultimately pointless, they are merely ads.

If a game has severe problems, they will surface only after release when consumers are discovering them. Hence the constant drama between enthusiast press and consumers.

Sure, you can say that if someone is concerned about stuff like this should not pre-order, and wait until after the consoles launches to get it. But they still let you pre-order, even if you don't get the full picture.That imo is just plain wrong.

No one has to pre-order. If you want to pre-order, they you will just have to live with the risk. Again: those early reviews would've been pointless anyway.

 

[gamerforever]

As long as Nintendo are still here the games industry is safe enough for me. We must all buy Wii U's!!

 

[sublimit]

You are hitting some very good points OP and i wholly agree with you as i'm sure most people here agree as well.In the last generation publishers have been getting away with lots of practises that harmed the consumer and it was only natural with the upcoming generation to test how even farther they could go with their greed before anyone dared to oppose them .It was mostly the forums and communities such as GAF that made noise with most of the big consumer sites keeping silent and in some cases even defending the publishers.

Unfortunatelly there's no such thing as objective journalism in our industry and 98% of the big sites only exist to serve as PR and marketing of the big dogs.Even smaller ones (like Siliconera for example) you will never see them uncovering any negative information and almost all of their articles are about trying to get the consumer feel hyped about the games.Even in their comments section if someone dares to say something negative and critisize a developer,publisher or game his post will be deleted or he could even get banned.

I'd say that the only way of getting some objective information is from sites such as GAF but only if you are long enough a part of the community and know how to distinguish the astroturfers,from the fanboys and the objective fans.

 

[valouris]

The problem goes back to the consumer who pre-orders stuff months in advance and demands reviews ahead of release. Those kind of reviews will always be sugar-coated and will never provide the consumer with a full picture because publishers call the shots. Those reviews are ultimately pointless, they are merely ads.

If a game has severe problems, they will surface only after release when consumers are discovering them. Hence the constant drama between enthusiast press and consumers.


No one has to pre-order. If you want to pre-order, they you will just have to live with the risk. Again: those early reviews would've been pointless anyway.

True, I totally understand that is the way things work. I still think it is wrong. I still think it is not a matter to be burshed away just because "it is just games".

And I think consumers should at least have some form of protection, so when a hypothetical, real journalist asks questions, the companies would be legally required to answer truthfully. I book a ticket for a plane flight, I must get a real answer when I ask if there will be a stick on my seat going through my butthole. (not a really good analogy, but you get the point).

And regardless, even after the things launch, the only way to get the info on bad/wrong stuff will still be through gaming boards like this (which will be still infested with shills ineffectively brushing any bad claim away), and through small, independent gaming sites and youtube channels (and this is going away as well if the rumblings concerning Youtube are true). Who have to buy everything on their own. And it will be some time after launch until you can legitimately get the whole picture on the systems and every game that interests you.

 

[Hindle]

Will you share the same opinion on Ryse if that turns out be what you loathe?

Ryse looks to be a 5/10 from what I've seen. Obviously I can't officially give my score as I haven't played.

 

[Mman235]

The industry grew up.

Along with those bigger profits and huge blockbusters came the usual dose of corporate messaging, bullshit and ass covering.

There's no way back, you can't put the genie back into the bottle.

Well, if things continue their current course, and costs keep rising exponentially without a big enough increase in profits. Then the Genie will do a good job shoving itself back in the bottle.

 

[jakonovski]

My interpretation of all this bullshit is that it's going to be a shit generation. On some level the corporations involved are aware of this, and it manifests as the current shitstorm. There's a real risk of a new console crash, and right now we're in the denial phase.

 

[Stripper13]

1 Stop over reacting.
2 Wait until the products actually launch to the market.
3 Then research all the info you want.
4 ?
5 Profit! (i.e. buy whatever you want)

No time to think, gotta jump on that hype train.

These kind of statements are pointless. The XB1-DRM fiasco is proof enough that talking about, raising and questioning shit can get results.

There is no over-reaction here, it was an open ended question/theory up for discussion on gaming site. There is also no reason that companies and the people who cover them, should feel the need to actively withhold and obfuscate information because reasons. It is treating the consumer as if they are unintelligent and serves only to manipulate. It goes beyond simple marketing and into a weird and toxic control-of-information system whereby all of the most popular gaming sites simply cough up the same old PR bullshit.

I'd agree that we should wait until release and then research - if it wasn't for the fact that we have paid press that play/experience and review this shit weeks (if not months) prior to release. The information is there and hidden behind embargo's and gag orders.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Great post op.

I share your feelings

There is not much we can do about it other than to vote with our mice and stop giving polygon/kotaku/gametrailer/ign and who else is there clicks and try to find our info on forums or those few tiny websites/people that do some investigative journalism and don't filter their content or opinions
(tbh I don't even know a single one of the latter anymore)

It's up to the game 'journalism' industry to remember who pays for their sandwiches, and it's up to us to remind them by demanding better and stop giving them clicks as long as things don't change.

 

[Currygan]

after 28 years of gaming I managed to refine my own tastes and develop my own analytical skills, and I'm sure a lot of Gaffers are in the same boat, so I can go on ignoring this bleedin' ridiculous form of journalism (save RPS, they are ace), read the eventual preview/review from time to time just to kill time, watch AVGN for a laugh and ultimately buy only the games I like. All this shite surrounding the industry's main draw, games, is almost completely useless: overhyped previews, tweet wars, "celebrities" that have their own cult following as if they were bigger than Hollywood stars (Jessica Chobot? PFAHAHA. Adam Sessler? Who the fuck is Adam Sessler) , PR shit, evident corruption, and they think they can be taken seriously? L O L.

Just gimme the games man, and leave all this huge amount of horse manure out of my hobby

 

[sublimit]

Great post op.

I share your feelings

There is not much we can do about it other than to vote with our mice and stop giving polygon/kotaku/gametrailer/ign and who else is there clicks and try to find our info on forums or those few tiny websites/people that do some investigative journalism and don't filter their content or opinions
(tbh I don't even know a single one of the latter anymore)

It's up to the game 'journalism' industry to remember who pays for their sandwiches, and it's up to us to remind them by demanding better and stop giving them clicks as long as things don't change.

It's been ages since i clicked Kotaku,IGN or GameInformer (i really find their name very ironic lol) and i click GT very rarely in the last few months (if at all).

Seriously all these sites remind me the "journalism" of a comic-"news" magazine called Wizard which was really "hot" in the 90's and served as nothing more than a PR outlet from the big publishers filled with hype articles and stupid fanboy comparisons (which hero is the most sexiest,strongest etc).In fact IGN and Gametrailers remind me a lot of that shitty magazine.

 

[McLovin]

Gaming journalists can only report on games if they get them early from publishers. And publishers wont give them anything if they don't play by the rules. Seriously would you go to a site to read a review a week after a game is released? Its not real journalism, its just bloggers reporting on the bread crumbs they are given.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Great question.

I've read reviews for several high profile games where all they praise is the story. The gameplay is rarely mentioned. These games have all gotten 10s, I just think its a sad day when a game can get such a high score when the gameplay is derivative, repetitive and shallow.

Which games might those be?

 

[sublimit]

Which games might those be?

Tomb Raider is the first that comes to mind.

 

[Portugeezer]

Thoughts?

People should tell us what they know or STFU about it.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Tomb Raider is the first that comes to mind.

Also, Bioshock Forgot The Subtitle.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Tomb Raider is the first that comes to mind.

There are reviews that praise the story of Tomb Raider? lol

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Many people only care about "the industry" and don't identify with gamers.

Gamers may be seen as a bunch of dicks that stop them achieving their dreams. Or like an elemental force that can either be very destructive or maybe harnessed if lucky.

 

[sublimit]

There are reviews that praise the story of Tomb Raider? lol

The problem was not whether they praised or not the story but that they were putting too much focus on Lara's character while they used a few generalizations to describe the actual gameplay.
Even the few that critisized the game's story and/or gameplay ended up giving it an 8 or 9/10 which pretty much screams to me that their editor told them (for obvious reasons) "write whatever the fuck you want about the game but you can't score it under an 8."

 

[Rebel Leader]

We do not have any journalist that are brave enough to report the truth, kind of like the political landscape. People are scared to lose their jobs and security. I get it, I really do, but when you are classified as a journalist then you should actually want to do the job you are hired for. You will piss people off, get blacklisted, and be hated by corporations, but revealing the truth should be you number one priority. IF not, then you are an enthusiast and not a journalist.

That's it.

If they get blacklisted their reviews will not come out until after the game releases.

 

[Mman235]

Even the few that critisized the game's story and/or gameplay ended up giving it an 8 or 9/10 which pretty much screams to me that their editor told them (for obvious reasons) "write whatever the fuck you want about the game but you can't score it under an 8."

Yeah in the case of the Tomb Raider Reboot and other big AAA games these are the reviews that ring alarm bells for me; when the reviews talk about the story flaws and the gameplay ultimately being pretty shallow, BUT THE SHOOTMANS IS FUN ITS POLISHED AND DAT GRAFIX 9/10!

At least in the purely raving reviews there isn't a big disconnect like that (plus, based on what I've seen of the analysis skills of the average game reviewer I know most of those are genuine anyway).

 

[Tiops]

I agree with you. That's why I just don't follow any gaming site anymore. I just follow the news here on Gaf.

And the people dismissing your point, saying "it's just videogames, stop overreacting", is what makes the way "game journalists" treat us today possible.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

i really wish the bbc put ddicated jornos on this bullshit as well.

 

[Raist]

I doubt it's anything new.
You know about these issues now because a couple of people decide to post cryptic tweets and stuff.

 

[The Mana Legend]

Nothing. You're just freaking out because you're getting older and noticing bullshit that has always existed in the industry.

 

[Joe]

Community callously nitpicks every little piece of information into dust.

Industry withholds information.

Community complains of lack of information to nitpick.

Seriously though, I think if the community as a whole matured and approached with some actual tact then the industry wouldn't be so nervous to release details of whatever.

I'm not saying you have to be lapdogs but the community as a whole has a serious lack of manners. if I had millions of dollars and years of work riding on a game I'd be wary of releasing information to the video game community too.

 

[Pound_lb003]

This thread ladies and gentlemen, along with the other craziess - signifies we're at the start of a new generation.

Enjoy the chaos, we don't know when it'll happen again.

I'm being serious. Relax and enjoy it.

 

[Apdiddy]

It's not like this problem with games journalism didn't start overnight. It's always been there, even during the SNES/Genesis days. It's just as the budgets for making games become larger, there's more hands in the pot and the press that's there become less of journalists and more of PR mouthpieces for the publishers and console manufacturers.

I think a bigger question is why it continues to have to be that way. I know from my own experience I'm more likely to trust a friend's judgment about a game than I am to trust a website's review. Someone with a Youtube show unfortunately is more likely to present a well-balanced review than someone at a major site like IGN is worrying about site hits, publisher relations, and ad revenues.

 

[Thorgal]

You expect thorough journalism, yet you're angry that journalists haven't done anything about the 1080p issue within three days? Come on.

One difference between "ex-editors, CBOAT and insiders" and journalists is that journalists have track records. They have to be more thorough. They have to make sure that what they're reporting is correct, and they have to be sure to contextualize that information properly. Believe it or not, that takes time.

It's the same thing that happened with Aliens: Colonial Marines. When that game came out, I wanted to report the story of what happened, but for weeks, as I was talking to people and trying to confirm everything I'd learned, all I saw on NeoGAF, Reddit, and other gaming websites was a non-stop barrage of anonymous rumors and insiders - half of which were totally wrong - as I tried to find the real story. When I published my investigation (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515848), people had already read tons of nonsense, and the story suffered because of that.

So you say you want thorough journalism, yet you're quick to hop on every vague tweet and anonymous insider you can find? Something doesn't compute here.

In the case of Call of Duty... I'm not under any embargoes, nor do I know much about all the nonsense that has gone down here. (If you are privy to info, anonymous tips are always welcome.)

Now, yes, I hate vague teasing tweets just as much as the rest of you. I believe it's a journalist's job to be honest and candid and work to acquire information for readers, not for themselves or the people they cover. And I'm certainly not the only reporter who thinks that way. So how do you think we feel when people on NeoGAF shit all over us and our sites while embracing anonymous Redditors or "insiders" who are purposefully inflammatory and wrong half the time?

Besides, if you read Kotaku, you knew about all this Microsoft stuff months ago anyway. http://kotaku.com/about-microsoft-being-six-months-behind-with-the-next-486212937

I agree on most points you made and you and others may do proper journalism (put people on the grill. keep pushing for answers etc...) But i fear that .as they say: the few rotten apples Have tainted and ruined the whole basket .

We are looking at an age where all journalists are all considered bad apples by the hardcore despite the fact of people like you doing the job as best and as honest as you could and get some answers.

 

[830920]

Stop pre-ordering everything before you know what you get. Consumers are the problem in this case.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Not if the industry players were more forthcoming.

The industry players?? The press? Here's what you anti games press types don't seem to get. If they were more 'forthcoming' ie breaking their signed non disclosure agreements they would be blacklisted and replaced with someone who doesn't break signed agreements. For every news outlet or blog that will 'fight the power' and either refuse to sign, or break an agreement, there's another blog or site waiting In the wings ready to play ball. Don't like it? Don't give clicks to sites with exclusive previews and info.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Community callously nitpicks every little piece of information into dust.

Industry withholds information.

Community complains of lack of information to nitpick.

Seriously though, I think if the community as a whole matured and approached with some actual tact then the industry wouldn't be so nervous to release details of whatever.

I'm not saying you have to be lapdogs but the community as a whole has a serious lack of manners. if I had millions of dollars and years of work riding on a game I'd be wary of releasing information to the video game community too.

The reason the information is often nitpicked is because it's either misleading, misinformed or just outright nonsense.

We're in a situation where the information we have can't even be taken as fact from the people who work on the games or the companies involved. Even the information we often get from big name sites needs put through a bullshit filter.

There's too many agendas at play.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

The industry players?? The press? Here's what you anti games press types don't seem to get. If they were more 'forthcoming' ie breaking their signed non disclosure agreements they would be blacklisted and replaced with someone who doesn't break signed agreements. For every news outlet or blog that will 'fight the power' and either refuse to sign, or break an agreement, there's another blog or site waiting In the wings ready to play ball. Don't like it? Don't give clicks to sites with exclusive previews and info.

Then it's not news but PR.

I am not saying all NDAs should be broken or that they don't exist for a reason, but I would like to know if a console I am going to purchase has issues weeks before launch or if a game I am put money on is up to scratch and the fact the big sites won't touch those issues makes them absolutely useless.

 

[Axass]

To sum up some great responses I totally agree with:

Game journalism does not really exist anymore, and perhaps never did in this industry. The sites and the people are nothing more than extended marketing tools for publishers to use, they all want the next scoop but have to play by the rules in order to even get the review copy/interview/media.

Consumers have finally figured this out, most know about this, once you were dismissed as a crazed conspirator by even suggesting this, it took us several incidents to get here, Gerstmann getting fired by GameSpot being a major one.

When they were defending Microsofts abysmal DRM policies, it finally broke the camels back, people stop giving a shit and decided to raise hell on their own, because these people were not doing it "oh it sounds kinda interesting, always online, oh yeah nice feature". They were being outright condescending, saying they were just the minority who did not care, yet MS ended up 180 all of it, showing that the outrage and it spilling to the mainstream did matter and it was not just a small minority but large amounts of people who did care.

Enough is enough. So enthusiast gamers became the journalist, its the only place where actual news is found these days and not marketing influenced preview builds. If they cannot and will not do their jobs, then the average consumer has to, because the truth and the details are important.

So what happened? The enthusiast consumer became the journalist, while the "journalist" has blended in with the rest of all the publishers. Slick talk, marketing buzz words, phoney smile infront of the camera.

EDIT: Example: Not a single journalist came to the consumers side when Skyrim on PS3 launched and was riddled with bugs and slowdowns, not one dared criticize Bethesda or warn the consumer about this version, the game even got the same score on many sites. The fucks they gave were zero, nada, nothing. It was only months later, after the hype marketing train was over, after people bought the game, that they ran small stories about it, never really giving Bethesda the absolute hell they deserved. Despicable

It's a very young form of entertainment, in my opinion too young for how much money it's bringing in. I feel like corporations and businessmen transformed the AAA industry into a soulless, homogenous money-making machine when it should have been experimenting, attracting creatives and broadening it's scope. Journalists are just a cog in that machine, so finely tuned to maximise sales. It just seems unnatural how the AAA industry is now, especially in such a short amount of time. It's like if cinema never had the classical or post-classical eras (or had them extremely reduced), and instead churned out shit like Transformers and Iron Man when it should have been maturing as a medium.

Games "journalists" don't break NDA's so they can go to these special events, get free games and consoles to review, but as a result, they have to be nice. There is nothing else like it. Movies, music... nothing else is set up the way the games industry is.

I can see you point, but when economic and political journalists obviously fail very hard these days, I see no reason how members of the gaming branch of journalism holding the torch of investigative research higher than their older brothers. Especially when gaming journalism is still divided in three main sections: "previews/reviews", "press release copy pasta" & rare "editorials". Which reminds me more of sport journalism than of 'serious business'.

The problem is that the "Fourth Estate" is, by and large, non-existent for certain sections of the entertainment industry. If you're a comic fan there's a similar situation--there's tons of sites, tons of content, but every interview always reads the fucking same: "Oh we've got some great stuff planned, but we can't talk about it," or "Man the artist/writer is amazing, I've always wanted to work with them!", and then the book comes out and the story's garbage or the art's terrible. It's gotten so that I pretty much rely on a gossip site to get all my (surprisingly far more accurate) news.

Gaming's about the same. And all this discussion and most of you have barely scratched on why. Here you go. The reason there's very little real journalism is simple; we are the hardcore, we are the minority, and they don't need us.

Now there are other major factors, but it pretty much breaks down to the websites needing the companies more than vice-versa. It was different when there were magazines and the information was available for anyone who went down every aisle of the grocery store. Now the only way to get information for the most part is to visit a website and really, who has time for that, except the core gamers?

At the end of the day, games (and comics, honestly) are set-up in a different way from other forms of media like movies/music, and that's what allows the companies to exploit the journalists. For one, the majority of their profit comes from people who will never check out a review, or discuss games with anyone else other than like-minded people. Word of mouth can sink a movie over the course of a weekend, something that simply can't happen with a CoD or a Madden, even though every year there are more gamers talking about how "all they did was update the roster/change the maps a little".

And music? LOL. Leaks of albums happen weeks before they come out with regularity. It takes the most extreme amounts of effort to keep this from happening, but the end result is most artists don't try and thus before the album ever hits store shelves people already know what they're in for. With games? It's a rarity, and when it does happen? Someone is fired within a few hours, making occurrences less and less likely.

By the by: All the people using the word entitled in this thread? Slap yourselves. You are part of the problem. It's not "just games", it's a system in which we don't hold corporations accountable for their actions and the products they create. When you spend money on something you ARE entitled to know about that product. You say "wait until it's out"? What an ingenius idea! Except they NEED our pre-orders (and they know it), and use them as indicators of how a product release is going/might go, so it honestly makes zero sense for them to keep us in the dark about anything. Other than the fact that we let them.

Apologies for any syntax errors--I wrote this at 6AM, and no I have not been to sleep yet.

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after 28 years of gaming I managed to refine my own tastes and develop my own analytical skills, and I'm sure a lot of Gaffers are in the same boat, so I can go on ignoring this bleedin' ridiculous form of journalism (save RPS, they are ace), read the eventual preview/review from time to time just to kill time, watch AVGN for a laugh and ultimately buy only the games I like. All this shite surrounding the industry's main draw, games, is almost completely useless: overhyped previews, tweet wars, "celebrities" that have their own cult following as if they were bigger than Hollywood stars (Jessica Chobot? PFAHAHA. Adam Sessler? Who the fuck is Adam Sessler) , PR shit, evident corruption, and they think they can be taken seriously? L O L.

Just gimme the games man, and leave all this huge amount of horse manure out of my hobby

I'm sure most of fellow gaffers are totally able to ignore press, reviews and the ensuing stupidity alltogether. But should we? Or should we kick and moan to have better journalists? Don't you think that ignoring this glaring problem will leave it space to become bigger and bigger, until, with all the other current problems, it brings an end to the industry itself, crumbling under its own weight? Then, no more games for us.

Even if we ignore the problem and the industry doesn't crumble, the games you like will start slowly disappearing, in favour of the bloated generic un-interactive shit we loathe. Hasn't this already started in the current generation? Everything's becoming a shooter or a cinematic action game.

Gaming journalists can only report on games if they get them early from publishers. And publishers wont give them anything if they don't play by the rules. Seriously would you go to a site to read a review a week after a game is released? Its not real journalism, its just bloggers reporting on the bread crumbs they are given.

I don't usually buy games at launch, and I think the whole midnight launch stuff and race to be first to review is part of the stupidity involved in this industry, but I digress...

Journalism shouldn't be all about reviews. Reviews should be an after-thought, we should have a more aggressive journalism:

• Outlets trying to break news stories; impossible now, as many journalists know stuff beforehand anyway, they're just embargoed.
• A press very critic of publishers, developers and platform owners; impossible, because they'd be black-listed and basically be out of a job with the current system.
• Writing editorials, interesting all-encompassing articles, pieces which give us insight on the industry; the norm right now are top tens.

Also, to answer your initial question, as someone already said before, they would just need to stop giving in to the publisher's demands. As long as someone starts not giving in and getting praise from consumers for it, others will follow and publishers will have to adapt. Sadly no one is willing to try, because these "journalists" are scared shitless of the possible repercussions.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Someone explained it very nicely and changed all perspective. Stop calling them "Gaming journalists" and start calling them "game critics".

There is no journalism in gaming, ever. No one has the balls or the brains to start being a journalist in gaming. They won't do it because they will stop receiving press kits, stop getting called to press events and stop receiving review copies. They're meat puppets trying to do what the PR want them to do. There is no entity protecting the entities that allow them to critique at their own pace. The problem is that the whole "Press kit" bullshit is more of a bribe than anything. These critics are far too concerned about getting free shit while making a few bucks. The moment these press kits are gone, they have nothing else to do but burry their head in the sand.

My worst revelation in the entire decade was that no one is out there protecting consumer rights. No one is out there asking the right question and reporting on the right answer, and that strips them off the title "journalist". Its shameful that we need "insiders" and "leaks", and even that comes with a massive backlash and blacklisting of anyone involved. The bigger websites like IGN need to grow some fucking balls and tell things straight without worrying if their all-access free steam account will be active tomorrow or not.

The more transparent this is, the less FUD there will be.

 

[valouris]

Why can't there be a website of such journalists? They wouldn't care if they get preview builds, presskits, shit like that, they would just do what we are talking about right now. I would bookmark that site, I would go to town with it. I would click all their ads. I would donate. I would even kickstart the damn thing. There would be plenty of backlash, but they would also have lots of street cred.

Companies would either

a)be even more secretive, but risk even more in case there was a bad leak (which there usually is), or
b)actually refrain from making bullshit and anti-consumer moves and decisions, in case there was a bad leak

IMO the industry would be a better place.

Is it for the money? Is it for the early access to cool new games, tech, and insider knowledge? What is it? Is the money THAT much? Is it that much worth it?

If some people in the press really wanted to do sth like that, they could. They would make less money, but if they did it right they would get by. And if they got big enough they would be pretty safe financially. And they could single-handedly change the face of the industry.