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[Manmademan]

Reading through this topic becomes clear that western gamers want JRPGs to perish.
Because if you turn JRPG in WRPG is obviously not JRPG anymore.
Captain to the rescue. Just pointing out the obvious.
Why people who don't like JRPGs in principle would want to play them, or change them, or talk about them. Never could understand that.

I don't think that's fair. many of us grew up with jrpgs and think the genre has potential.

however, western gamers are consistently getting older on average (excluding smartphones and social) but jrpgs aren't being made to address this. what's compelling content at 13 isn't compelling content at 30.

there's no reason FF or Star Ocean couldn't be as well WRITTEN as alpha protocol or the witcher. Matsunos games come very close, but we can see even there that square panicked and shoehorned useless teens in ffxii rather than skew even slightly older.

 

[Cowie]

And that's why Tales games will always have the same quality "story wise" as a serialized 90's teen show instead of something fantastic like Game of Thrones.

So, your entire point in this thread can be summed up as "GAME OF THRONES"

Truly, if more JRPGs focused on months of boat rides, being miserable in the snow, poorly written sex scenes and meat juice dripping down chins, they'd be vastly popular in the west.

Game of Thrones gets a free pass for all of the shit it does poorly because it kills off major characters unceremoniously.

Not to say that there isn't some merit to the general tone of your argument, but I'll take issue with the flag you're flying behind it.

 

[kswiston]

I would probably recommend 5. same gameplay and themes, but has aged a little better (suiko 2 is full of bugs) and is FAR cheaper.

I disagree with the aging part. Most of bugs in Suiko 2 are minor annoyances related to audio not playing properly or text being typo'd/not translated. The game itself holds up quite well visually. If you happen to have a PSP to load it up on custom firmware, the sprite based graphics look very sharp (I haven't played my disk version for a long time, so I'm not sure what it looks like on a modern HDTV). Suikoden V on the other hand suffers some of the problems that low budget games had last generation. There is a ridiculous amount of loading. Expect to see the loading screen for a few hours during your playthrough, since every battle and map transition triggers it. Routine battles take longer to load than beat. The game also has extremely sparse environments. Other than the character portraits/models, it is not a pretty game.

Both are definitely worth playing if you can get your hands on them, but I still prefer Suiko 2, both in terms of gameplay and visuals.

If you can't afford to part with the $100+ it costs to play Suikoden 2, part 5 is the next best thing. However, if you can afford it, I would play the series in order. If you buy Suikoden 2 and hate it, it's not like you won't be able to easily sell the game back for the amount that you paid for it (give or take $10).

 

[Nightengale]

Xillia 2 isn't out yet but it's one of the best narratives I've experience in a JRPG and is certainly the most mature in the franchise. Though, that's probably not saying much lol.

I'm of the opinion that presentation of the story is also one factor.

Within the core of the themes that Tales tackle, it covers a wide range of interesting themes that has made for very compelling moments, like racism, genocide, identity, and many more.

Yet at the same time, it's a franchise that embraces its 'anime' style charm. It finds fun in its character moments, evident through the skits, etc.

And I like it for what it is.

 

[kayos90]

you can look at it that way. (><)
But seriously, aren't you tired of people constantly complaining about art style, teenage characters, gameplay and everything else, literally everything. If I don't like certain genre, I don't play it, not try to ruin it for everyone else (discussions including), if you see my point.

I'm of the opinion that if there is a good enough narrative justification for why there are teenage characters or something tropey, it'll be alright. As long as intentions are conveyed and the game knows what audience it's trying to be, it doesn't need to be anything grand. At least storywise. As a game as a whole? That's a different story.

 

[Kade]

Less J, more RPG. WRPGs have (mostly) taken a culture neutral approach to theme, setting and characters while JRPGs are still for Japanese fans and fans of Japanese culture. JRPGs alienate more potential players than they pull them in. It's a shame because sometimes the game is awesome but you'll see a lot of people shy away because of the art or some other reason, for example Etrian Odyssey.

 

[Stuart444]

I know for me personally, more AA releases on psn/xblive would be great. I know there have been a slew of solid releases on handhelds this gen, but I, like many aging gamers, dont particularly like looking at a tiny screen for 40+ hours anymore. They don't have to be triple a, I would be perfectly happy with upscaled sprites that look decent on a big TV. Just let me sit on my couch, dammit!

Favorites for me this gen include Ni No Kuni, Nier, FFXIII-2, Eternal Sonata, Demons/Dark Souls, P3 and P4 (if you count those).

Try Disgaea then (3, 4 and D2 on PS3), it's an SJRPG, console based and sprite based on a disc.

Unless you've already played it but if you haven't, you should (or unless you don't like SJRPGs ie FFTactics Advanced and similar games) since it fits most of your criteria except you can get it on a disc.

 

[Lambda Pie]

i recently finished FF7 for the first time and i would gladly buy a game in that vein.

more games need an interactive word map and shitload of hidden secrets.

 

[Paracelsus]

Less J, more RPG. WRPGs have (mostly) taken a culture neutral approach to theme, setting and characters

Make an example of Wrpg that could cater to people that don't like burly vikings, LOTR or sci-fi.

 

[Manmademan]

I disagree with the aging part. Most of bugs in Suiko 2 are minor annoyances related to audio not playing properly or text being typo'd/not translated. The game itself holds up quite well visually. If you happen to have a PSP to load it up on custom firmware, the sprite based graphics look very sharp (I haven't played my disk version for a long time, so I'm not sure what it looks like on a modern HDTV). Suikoden V on the other hand suffers some of the problems that low budget games had last generation. There is a

not to turn this into a 2 vs 5 thread, but yes 1 and 2 do not display well on modern hdtvs. 1 is ok on a psp, but I don't know how you'd get a US version of 2 there outside of piracy.

if you have a BC ps3 or can use pcsx2, 5 obliterates 1 and 2, and it's not close at all.

as for loading I think the complaint there is overblown. it's nowhere near as bad as something like ff9, and most loading is between areas, not battle transition. I do feel the extremely poor translation for suiko 2 is a bigger deal than you do though, so it's probably a wash.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Reading through this topic becomes clear that western gamers want JRPGs to perish.
Because if you turn JRPG in WRPG is obviously not JRPG anymore.
Captain to the rescue. Just pointing out the obvious.
Why people who don't like JRPGs in principle would want to play them, or change them, or talk about them. Never could understand that.

There are plenty of great JRPGs that don't rely on tropes and moe.

Make an example of Wrpg that could cater to people that don't like burly vikings, LOTR or sci-fi.

Alpha Protocol. Gothic. Vampire. Arcanum. Secret World.

A few off the top of my head.

 

[JustRiffled]

Less J, more RPG. WRPGs have (mostly) taken a culture neutral approach to theme, setting and characters while JRPGs are still for Japanese fans and fans of Japanese culture. JRPGs alienate more potential players than they pull them in. It's a shame because sometimes the game is awesome but you'll see a lot of people shy away because of the art or some other reason, for example Etrian Odyssey.

What about Etrian Oddysee is japanese culture? lol

 

[kayos90]

Less J, more RPG. WRPGs have (mostly) taken a culture neutral approach to theme, setting and characters while JRPGs are still for Japanese fans and fans of Japanese culture. JRPGs alienate more potential players than they pull them in. It's a shame because sometimes the game is awesome but you'll see a lot of people shy away because of the art or some other reason, for example Etrian Odyssey.

What exactly does it mean to be culture neutral for games and can you list some successful RPGs that you consider to be culture neutral? I don't think what you believe really is the case in all honesty. Cultural influences can set an excellent premise for a narrative. It's the execution and the methodology used to carry them out than can make it bad.

 

[RMI]

Less J, more RPG. WRPGs have (mostly) taken a culture neutral approach to theme, setting and characters while JRPGs are still for Japanese fans and fans of Japanese culture. JRPGs alienate more potential players than they pull them in. It's a shame because sometimes the game is awesome but you'll see a lot of people shy away because of the art or some other reason, for example Etrian Odyssey.

Those people were never going to buy Etrian Odyssey anyway. The character portraits are so inconsequential to that game, it seems like a pretty weak position to say , "oh well I wish I could play Etrian Odyssey but those horrible moe character portraits are so embarassing!"

 

[kerotan_eater]

I didn't read the past dozen or so pages but if someone said a very good Final Fantasy game, that would be the answer.

 

[Kade]

Make an example of Wrpg that could cater to people that don't like burly vikings, LOTR or sci-fi.

How does that prove they are not culture neutral? Burly vikings is not but LOTR inspiration and Sci Fi are as culture neutral as it gets.

 

[redcrayon]

Less J, more RPG. WRPGs have (mostly) taken a culture neutral approach to theme, setting and characters while JRPGs are still for Japanese fans and fans of Japanese culture. JRPGs alienate more potential players than they pull them in. It's a shame because sometimes the game is awesome but you'll see a lot of people shy away because of the art or some other reason, for example Etrian Odyssey.

Your point about culture neutrality is only because we term RPGs from over a dozen different countries as 'Western'.

I see a distinct difference between an RPG of US origin and one of Polish origin, but even then our fantasy RPGs aren't exactly neutral- they all borrow largely from the source landscape and weaponry of medieval Europe and Lord of the Rings rather than Japanese myth. That's not neutrality, it's more of an informed 'Western' idea of what 'fantasy' is.

I agree about EO, I made the same point upthread, but expecting RPGs from one country that has little historical interaction with western countries to compare to the broad melting pot of ideas from dozens of countries that shared history, culture and territory for hundreds of years isn't exactly fair. Japanese developers seem far more willing these days to try different things to appeal to Westerners, it just takes time.

Looking at the sales figures of RPGs in general, I suspect that just being an RPG also alienates a fair portion of gamers, but that's probably a bit off topic.

 

[Arthea]

I'm of the opinion that if there is a good enough narrative justification for why there are teenage characters or something tropey, it'll be alright. As long as intentions are conveyed and the game knows what audience it's trying to be, it doesn't need to be anything grand. At least storywise. As a game as a whole? That's a different story.

I like teenage characters, at least I have no problems with them at all, as long as game is good and fun to play. I would like better stories, that's true, but I'm not going out of my way to demand them. I liked a few JRPGs this gen. My only real complaint that there are too little of them on home consoles. But if for that to happen, they have to stop being lighthearted games with quirky and varied gameplay systems and nice colouful artstyle, I won't care anymore about them at all.

 

[Nightengale]

In my opinion, 3 things need to happen.

On the multi-million selling franchise side like FF & KH, they need to really lead the charge for the upcoming generation and establish themselves as the halo franchises and defining games of that genre. It's essential because very few franchises can afford to pour in the same kind of $$$ into this genre.

On the lower spectrum of games that sell 500k-1million or so, developers who are firmly in the console JRPG business like Tales Studio, Level-5, Monolith, Persona Team, etc needs to really establish themselves as a great game studios making good games. Doesn't matter if it was catered to a Japanese audience with anime style writing, it just needs to be good games, localised and marketed well. We need more Ni no Kuni, and less of White Knight Chronicles in this range.

And lastly, the JRPG developers who had fled away from the console space over to the 3DS/PSP/Vita space needs to come back, and take some risk in the console space. It doesn't matter if their games aren't visually stunning. Games like Persona and Tales have proven you don't need to be Final Fantasy-tier graphics to be successful in the console space. Go back and revive some old franchises, or make new JRPGs that create diversity in the console market.

It's really a sad thing that Gust has made 6 PS3 JRPGs throughout PS3's life-cycle, while many previously well-known JRPG studios are floundering about doing nothing.

 

[Knux-Future]

It's really simple.

they won't be until another one catches on.

the big boom of JRPGs came around when Japanese/Anime designs was the shit. In the 90's it was the new obscure cool stuff that you didn't get easily over in the US and thus it became popular. Even Western created stuff tried to ape it. But then as time went on, it became more prevelant and the "shitty" aspects of it became more prevekant as well and eventually tastes changed. This is an industry that simply chases the next big thing. It was platforming mascots, then anime, and currently War FPSs. The market was simply flooded w/ JRPGs and the mass market simply had their fill.

Things like moe designs and archaic design plays a role too...but some of the older RPGs had the same "creepy" aspects to it, the same tropes, and so on. The industry just simply grew out of that phase or rather those that loved it did and moved on. Making it a niche genre.

That being said, simply making them into WRPGs where the main leads are middle aged dudes with beards who brood and have sex, isn't exactly the answer. I think there is room for both. Star Ocean 4 is horrible and that is the type of shit I don't like. The "characters" in that game were litterally tropes and moe blobs, and even as a guy who watches a lot of anime it was cringe worthy. but the Tales games? Doesn't bother me. It's childish. It's anime as fuck. But that's fine because that's what I go to those games for. It can get better as Graces bored me to tears plotwise (my ps3 also died...and I didn't want to get back...as I would have beated it). But the issue there wasn't that there was tropes it was that they were bland. Symphonia is trope tastic but I love that cast because they were enjoyable. So in the end it comes down to what you like.

I think the idea of making every genre mass appeal is stupid and it only ends in everything being the same. Super serious, brown, standard games with "emotional depth". We don't even get that many JRPGs anymore and the ones we get aren't all "ugguu am I kawaiiiiiii" games. Hell even the Atelier games aren't that. There should be room for those games, anime as fuck games, super serial games, JPOP games. That's one of my favoprite things about thsi industry, there are games for everyone..instead of games that sell well to the majority. I like that Japanese games are Japanese, not everything needs to be focused on western tastes and if you don't like them...then play something else instead of wanting to force games you don't like into beign what you do like.

now I'm not saying they haven't fell on hard times as It is difficult to think of one JRPG that I liked from this gen...hell the best one is a port of a ps2 game in Persona 4 Golden lol. But it's not beause of the tropes...it's because as a game they are either boring, broken, or just meeeeeh. They need to fix that part. Making the gameplay part fun, not grindy, and not take hours to start...then maybe they will hit more people..

but they will never return to the 16bit days. The market just isn't interested in that style anymore and chasing after them, will end up in steralizing what made them different.

 

[kswiston]

not to turn this into a 2 vs 5 thread, but yes 1 and 2 do not display well on modern hdtvs. 1 is ok on a psp, but I don't know how you'd get a US version of 2 there outside of piracy.

if you have a BC ps3 or can use pcsx2, 5 obliterates 1 and 2, and it's not close at all.

as for loading I think the complaint there is overblown. it's nowhere near as bad as something like ff9, and most loading is between areas, not battle transition. I do feel the extremely poor translation for suiko 2 is a bigger deal than you do though, so it's probably a wash.

If you own the PS1 disk, it takes 5-10 minutes to rip it to a .ISO file. Since PSP custom firmware now requires zero hard modifications, there is no real downside to using it as your portable Playstation 1 machine.

I agree we should avoid going even more off topic though. We can continue the discussion one day in a future Suikoden-centric thread

 

[Manmademan]

Make an example of Wrpg that could cater to people that don't like burly vikings, LOTR or sci-fi.

more people in this thread need to play alpha protocol. dishonored also qualifies here.

seriously though, if you're excluding the vast majority of science fiction and fantasy settings, you're knocking out a huge chunk of games period.

 

[DigitalDevil]

Try Disgaea then (3, 4 and D2 on PS3), it's an SJRPG, console based and sprite based on a disc.

Unless you've already played it but if you haven't, you should (or unless you don't like SJRPGs ie FFTactics Advanced and similar games) since it fits most of your criteria except you can get it on a disc.

Thx! I have sort of ignored srpgs the last couple of gens. Not really sure why tbh because fftactics, kartia, ogre battle were some of my favorites back in the day. How is Valkyria Chronicles? I know it gets a lot of love on GAF.

 

[Stuart444]

now I'm not saying they haven't fell on hard times as It is difficult to think of one JRPG that I liked from this gen...hell the best one is a port of a ps2 game in Persona 4 Golden lol. But it's not beause of the tropes...it's because as a game they are either boring, broken, or just meeeeeh. They need to fix that part. Making the gameplay part fun, not grindy, and not take hours to start...then maybe they will hit more people..

apart from this bit quoted (your opinion, I don't share it), the rest of your post is great imo.

Thx! I have sort of ignored srpgs the last couple of gens. Not really sure why tbh because fftactics, kartia, ogre battle were some of my favorites back in the day. How is Valkyria Chronicles? I know it gets a lot of love on GAF.

I need to try it myself actually lol but it gets a lot of love here indeed. I'll get to it one day though, defo.

 

[Nightengale]

II agree we should avoid going even more off topic though. We can continue the discussion one day in a future Suikoden-centric thread

Ha, if there was one JRPG franchise that would transition well into a WRPG-style game or storytelling, it would be Suikoden.

 

[kswiston]

Thx! I have sort of ignored srpgs the last couple of gens. Not really sure why tbh because fftactics, kartia, ogre battle were some of my favorites back in the day. How is Valkyria Chronicles? I know it gets a lot of love on GAF.

Valkyria Chronicles is a good game, but it is a completely different type of game than the titles you listed. Don't go in expecting a HD FF Tactics and you will be happy.

 

[Knux-Future]

also fucking localize more of them.

FF Type 0 looks awesome and just what I wanted out of FFXIII but nooooooooooooo.

fuck you Square

;_;

 

[Manmademan]

If you own the PS1 disk, it takes 5-10 minutes to rip it to a .ISO file. Since PSP custom firmware now requires zero hard modifications, there is no real downside to using it as your portable Playstation 1 machine.

I agree we should avoid going even more off topic though. We can continue the discussion one day in a future Suikoden-centric thread

I'm aware you can rip the iso, but the problem we are addressing in the first place is that suiko 2 is ultra rare and no one HAS the disc.

so using a psp isn't really a good solution here. the cost of entry is still over 100 US, and that's tough to justify when the cost of entry for V is as low as it is.

edit: dropping for now, agreed

 

[Grayman]

i recently finished FF7 for the first time and i would gladly buy a game in that vein.

more games need an interactive word map and shitload of hidden secrets.

Playing the first few hours of FF7 again because I got the PC version on sale recently is what brought me to this thread. If I could play something a lot like that but new I might play jrpgs still. The fast pacing at the start of the game is really important.

 

[entremet]

They were never really popular here. FFVII was an outlier.

 

[redcrayon]

more people in this thread need to play alpha protocol. dishonored also qualifies here.

seriously though, if you're excluding the vast majority of science fiction and fantasy settings, you're knocking out a huge chunk of games period.

I do have a real respect for devs that make a fantasy that isn't knights, wizards, orcs and undead, and also science fiction that isn't space marines and laser guns. Dishonored is a great example of a thoughtful fantasy. Don't get me wrong, I like rolling hills and dungeons full of goblins as much as the next adventurer, but it's bizarre that in a creative industry, it's so rare to see a fantastical world that really feels new.

Radiant Historia was pretty good- warring

Spoiler

mainly

human factions with a mix of medieval/steampunk level tech fighting it out over the last arable land before an encroaching desert covers it all, with the player jumping back and forth in time as well as over the map.

 

[Orayn]

Make an example of Wrpg that could cater to people that don't like burly vikings, LOTR or sci-fi.

The Witcher series (Fantasy setting, but not much like LOTR at all.)
Alpha Protocol
Planescape: Torment (Much more "cosmic" than typical fantasy settings.)
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Mount & Blade (Low fantasy.)
Anything by Spiderweb Software (Avernum, Geneforge, etc.)
Fallout (Unless you count anything post-apocalyptic as sci-fi.)
Deus Ex series
Vampire: The Masquerade &#8211; Bloodlines
Dishonored

Also, the "burly Vikings" comment is just as silly as accusing all JRPGs of being about waifish teenaged boys with silly hair and ridiculous weapons.

 

[zruben]

adapt Game of Thrones to a good videogame.

swim in your pool of money.

 

[Clear]

Actions have consequences. The bad guys win. Good guys die. War is brutal. Characters have real motivations beyond destroying/saving the world. Characters have depth. Characters engage in well written dialog, etc etc.

Nier says hello.

Pretty much the main point of that game is to shred the simplistic black/white moral dichotomy of the traditional JRPG.

Conceptually its a standout, but its received scant credit for its intelligence because most commentators are so fixated on superficial, technical details, and what is currently the fashion for the "right" way to build a game.

This I think is the big problem facing JRPGs these days. The critical establishment (and to be fair, a lot of players) is too enamoured with presentation over substance, and as a result is unwilling, maybe unable, to look beyond the surface. As a result titles that trade heavily on their technical qualities and conform to present expectations of what is considered the "standard to beat" in terms of scope, content and construction are the only ones that get a fair shake.

Its kind of the reverse to the situation in the late 90's where JRPGs had a brief period of being fashionable, the idea of a JRPG is now "uncool" and brings with it a whole bunch of prejudices that the title must somehow get past before it gets treated as more than a curiosity.

 

[kswiston]

I'm aware you can rip the iso, but the problem we are addressing in the first place is that suiko 2 is ultra rare and no one HAS the disc.

so using a psp isn't really a good solution here. the cost of entry is still over 100 US, and that's tough to justify when the cost of entry for V is as low as it is.

If you want to keep the game in your collection, I agree. If you just want to play the game, the price tag is not a big deal since you can sell the game back for the same price you paid (or a minor loss) after you finish up. I'd do some research into what a good price is before buying/bidding on a copy, but rare games are a less risky investment than new releases are due to stable resale costs.

Ha, if there was one JRPG franchise that would transition well into a WRPG-style game or storytelling, it would be Suikoden.

I'm surprised that we haven't seen many (any?) WRPGs borrow the castle/army building mechanism of Suikoden. Something like that would fit in well with the Elder Scrolls series.

 

[Apdiddy]

I would love to see a JRPG not be a "high school kids save the world" storyline. I think that's partially why JPRG's don't seem to be popular in the west right now. Some games (like Persona 4 for instance) are fully aware of that and it makes you think back to your high school days and the people in the game made you wish you had friends like that in high school. The upcoming FFXV is a bit different at least. I would love to see a JRPG taking inspiration from a game like TLOU story-wise and present realistic and mature characters and themes (I know, NIER does this in some respects).

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Your point about culture neutrality is only because we term RPGs from over a dozen different countries as 'Western'.

I see a distinct difference between an RPG of US origin and one of Polish origin, but even then our fantasy RPGs aren't exactly neutral- they all borrow largely from the source landscape and weaponry of medieval Europe and Lord of the Rings rather than Japanese myth. That's not neutrality, it's more of an informed 'Western' idea of what 'fantasy' is.

I would interpret "cultural neutral" meaning you can play Witcher, Mass Effect, Gothic, Stalker, etc, without knowing immediately that the developers were Polish, Canadian, German, and Ukrainian.

Conversely, one look at many JRPGs or Japanese games in general and you can immediately tell.

 

[Impeccable]

I honestly think it comes down to art style and occasionally battle systems.

Atelier has a great and fun crafting system with a subpar battle system but most people won't touch the games because of the perceived 'child porn' related art style.

 

[chaosblade]

And lastly, the JRPG developers who had fled away from the console space over to the 3DS/PSP/Vita space needs to come back, and take some risk in the console space. It doesn't matter if their games aren't visually stunning. Games like Persona and Tales have proven you don't need to be Final Fantasy-tier graphics to be successful in the console space. Go back and revive some old franchises, or make new JRPGs that create diversity in the console market.

It's really a sad thing that Gust has made 6 PS3 JRPGs throughout PS3's life-cycle, while many previously well-known JRPG studios are floundering about doing nothing.

Why would abandoning the most successful platforms for their games be a good idea? A smaller JRPG developer is significantly more likely to see success on portables than they are on consoles.

Because they might see some smidgen of success in the west? These companies don't care, and they shouldn't. That's the same logic that gave us all those garbage C-tier outsourced western games from Japanese companies this generation.

And I say this as somebody who considers portables third-tier gaming systems.

 

[Stuart444]

I would love to see a JRPG not be a "high school kids save the world" storyline.

Play some of the more recent Atelier games (Atelier Ayesha is a great one to start, very little fan service compared to previous games which some people get put off by). It's about a girl trying to find her sister. No real 'saving the world' last I checked.

It's about alchemy and item creating more than battling (though you'll do a lot of battling) but it's a pretty good game and isn't a save the world storyline. (if you don't mind fan service, Atelier Rorona/Totori/Meruru also don't have save the world storylines but they do have a lot more fan service in those games)

Just a suggesting due to what you said

 

[h#shdem0n]

Next-gen Dragon Quest. Like DQ8.

At least it would make me happy.

 

[MrCookiepants]

The biggest problem is all these obtuse mechanics they're coming up with lately. Mostly Square. Gambits and Paradigm Shifts and Flowmotion. What the fuck do these words even mean. Over the course of the game you begin to understand and even like these systems, but I can't imagine the average person having the patience for it.

They need to go back to basics. There's a reason Pokemon is still popular. It's one of the last games of its kind that is accessible to a broad audience.

 

[Knux-Future]

I would love to see a JRPG not be a "high school kids save the world" storyline. I think that's partially why JPRG's don't seem to be popular in the west right now. Some games (like Persona 4 for instance) are fully aware of that and it makes you think back to your high school days and the people in the game made you wish you had friends like that in high school. The upcoming FFXV is a bit different at least. I would love to see a JRPG taking inspiration from a game like TLOU story-wise and present realistic and mature characters and themes (I know, NIER does this in some respects).

Very few JRPGs have the 'highschooler saves the day" storyline tho. The persona series (which ironically outside of maaaaybe 4 gets kinda dark) and a few of the tales games. Just because the main lead is young doesn't automatically mean highschooler.

and as for the save the day part...that's most videogames...period.

I also noticed a lot of people have a tendancy to want to make everything like the new hottness (TLOU and Dark Souls). why is that?

personally neither of those games appeal to me (asthetically mainly but also because I am a bitch. TLOU is too intense for me lol and Dark Soul is probably too hard. I made a promise that I would stop getting mad at videogames so I avoid "hard" games) so if every game followed their lead in being super dark or super serious that would be a bummer. I like my games to occasionally be silly, wacky or just plain dumb. So that direction would actually lose me from playing those games. It's why I just don't find many WRPGs appealing. I am sure the Witcher games are awesome but I don't like the asthetic. So imagine if they did follow their lead..how many fans would they lose and would the ones asking for change really buy it? This is basically what Capcom did this gen. They chased the western market, allienated their fans and in the end didn't capture it. I liked DmC a lot more than others but it was a dumb move because the mass amrket just doesn't like those type of games and in order to get the mass market they needed to make it easier and less wacky.

so why chase a market, you just can't get?

 

[DeBurgo]

adapt Game of Thrones to a good videogame.

swim in your pool of money.

Supposedly that's what Dragon Age was about. They failed spectacularly. Instead of really going for medieval fantasy intrigue, they just took LOTR/D&D and made it all shitty. Elves are still elves except they're jerks. Dwarves are still dwarves except they're class-conscious. Humans are still humans. Orcs are still orcs. And at the end, they still basically save everything. Also, for a game called "Dragon Age" there aren't even that many Dragons in it.

Also, iirc they even simplified the traditional D&D/LOTR mythology to make it into your typical shitty Bioware good vs. evil shit. Like, seriously: a benevolent, monotheistic god? In my fantasy game? Get the fuck out of here.

 

[Nightengale]

Why would abandoning the most successful platforms for their games be a good idea? A smaller JRPG developer is significantly more likely to see success on portables than they are on consoles.

Because they might see some smidgen of success in the west? These companies don't care, and they shouldn't. That's the same logic that gave us all those garbage C-tier outsourced western games from Japanese companies this generation.

And I say this as somebody who considers portables third-tier gaming systems.

I was just answering what this topic is asking.

I highly doubt it'll happen too. At best, I may see a scenario where PSVita developers up-port their portable titles onto the PS4, basically a PS2.5-tier game on consoles.

Honestly, that would be pretty okay too. Those smaller developers wouldn't be capable of investing in high production value titles to begin with.

 

[Manmademan]

Nier says hello.

Pretty much the main point of that game is to shred the simplistic black/white moral dichotomy of the traditional JRPG.

Conceptually its a standout, but its received scant credit for its intelligence because most commentators are so fixated on superficial, technical details, and what is currently the fashion for the "right" way to build a game..

yes and no. Nier is a textbook example of what's wrong with JRPGs AND how to fix them.

Conceptually it was leagues ahead in terms of commentary on your typical jrpg hero.

unfortunately we also have one version of the game
featuring an older protagonist saving his daughter for everywhere BUT Japan, and the Japanese variant featuring a teenager looking for his sister. it seems no matter what, JP studios are extremely resistant to skewing older with those protagonists.

edit: gameplay wise is another story. Niers implementation as an action rpg was just not very good. many portions were closer to overhead shooter as well. strange design.

 

[chaosblade]

The biggest problem is all these obtuse mechanics they're coming up with lately. Mostly Square. Gambits and Paradigm Shifts and Flowmotion. What the fuck do these words even mean. Over the course of the game you begin to understand and even like these systems, but I can't imagine the average person having the patience for it.

They need to go back to basics. There's a reason Pokemon is still popular. It's one of the last games of its kind that is accessible to a broad audience.

I feel the opposite. It's nice that JRPGs tend to experiment and try different things with their game systems. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't but has some neat ideas that can be tweaked and incorporated into something else.

There's also a good reason I haven't played a Pokemon game since Ruby. But maybe I'm just in the minority since that series is more successful than anything I like.

I was just answering what this topic is asking.

I highly doubt it'll happen too. At best, I may see a scenario where PSVita developers up-port their portable titles onto the PS4, basically a PS2.5-tier game on consoles.

Honestly, that would be pretty okay too. Those smaller developers wouldn't be capable of investing in high production value titles to begin with.

It would be nice and it would definitely help sell me on a PS4. But I doubt many of these companies would bother with the effort or expense. Most of them are content focusing on a Japanese audience and if their games get localized and they make some money off that, great. If not, they weren't planning for that anyway.

 

[redcrayon]

I would interpret "cultural neutral" meaning you can play Witcher, Mass Effect, Gothic, Stalker, etc, without knowing immediately that the developers were Polish, Canadian, German, and Ukrainian.

Conversely, one look at many JRPGs or Japanese games in general and you can immediately tell.

I don't know, I'm British and 5 minutes play is usually enough for me to be able to tell that a game is either US/Canadian in origin or Western European or Eastern European. The differences are small but they are there. I struggle to break it down beyond that though, and take your point that often a JRPG style is immediately alien in comparison to the minor differences between western countries.

Plenty of Japanese stuff does have broad appeal though. Nintendo have their own style as a global brand identity, for a start, Capcom uses various western styles for Devil May Cry, Dragons Dogma and Resident Evil, and Final Fantasy is a hotchpotch of various influences depending on the game. I also might not be able to tell the difference between a Korean and a Japanese game either.

The issue is that people expect so much of them based on a historical dominance of console gaming- they are one small country, and expecting a quality of output with global appeal across all genres to match that of a couple of dozen other countries including the US seems a bit unrealistic considering how many AAA western studios exist these days.

The biggest western IP doesn't have to even try to appeal to Japanese tastes due to there being so bloody many of us, but it doesn't stop good stuff selling over there- The Last of Us is distinctly Western in flavour. On the other hand Animal Crossing has done rather well outside of Japan, as has various fighting games, so maybe it's all about quality, or that JRPGs revel in the J-pop teenage culture more than other Japanese games.

 

[StayDead]

I personally don't think they're any less popular. The audience is still there it's just the mass market in the west (mainly newer games bought in by COD/Fifa and the likes) stick to those games.

The mass market 15 years ago was gamers like us who mostly genuinly enjoy JRPGs, we've not gone anywhere, it's just newer folk have cropped up.

 

[Jay Sosa]

adapt Game of Thrones to a good videogame.

swim in your pool of money.

A anime-style game of thrones JRPG would be quite hilarious. I'd definitely play that.