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[jonscrambler]

I don't see them just shit on other people for their choices neatly as often. .

sure they do

Also while I don't frequent the foundry threads I don't see Pro users shit on Slim users because they use a Slim. Now I do see Pro users shit on Pro users that can't see much of a difference which is just as stupid. .

Pro/Slim are both Sony gamers so of course they don't shit on each other. xbox x gamers shit on ps4/pro gamers, ps4 gamers shit on xbox one gamers, ps4/xbox one gamers shit on switch gamers, consoles gamers shit on mobile gamers, based on graphics/performance, happens here all the time dude.

why is it only when PC gamers do it they are called elitist?

 

[fantasyGG]

certain people just want to shit on other people’s choices so they feel superior “pc master race”.

.

How ironic.

 

[Akronis]

Because they were the ones acting like dickheads and calling people names like "clowns" and "grandpa" and whatnot?


Yeah, but who does that? I don't know anyone who does that, but I still have all my old consoles. Then again maybe I'm the weird one and keeping old consoles is as rare as keeping old PCs, IDK


Not really saying otherwise, but it was in response to someone who did want to play an old PC game on his modern PC, and was told that he shouldn't expect it to work.

I can use a VM for any old OS to play any old game even if fan patches don't exist.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

This is my last post in this thread, so if you wanna argue find somebody else.

sure they do



Pro/Slim are both Sony gamers so of course they don't shit on each other. xbox x gamers shit on ps4/pro gamers, ps4 gamers shit on xbox one gamers, ps4/xbox one gamers shit on switch gamers, based on graphics/performance, happens here all the time dude

As I said before I’m not gonna argue anymore. Maybe I just don’t go to the right arguing threads. I would put console wars on the same stupidity level as pc vs console.

I just enjoy games, I don’t care where they are, I do have preferences but games are meant to be enjoyed not argued over.

How ironic.

I’m only shitting on people that shit on other people for their choices, not the same thing. I’ve said before I play on both, the main reason I main on PlayStation is because the types of games that I enjoy.

I even said it’s not the majority of posters. So I’m not sure why so many people are getting offended.

 

[JWiLL]

why is it only when PC gamers do it they are called elitist?

Because PC gamers are the ones playing the most "elite" versions of games with their "elite" hardware and many of those console players are jealous, even if they claim otherwise.

(Talking about the Digital Foundry types, before any Gaffers reply)

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It's also stuff the majority of console players just don't care about.

no it's just the kind of stuff console-only players ignore until it hits their favorite console and suddenly becomes awesome

 

[c0Zm1c]

Oddly enough, a neighbor of mine who I've never really talked to walked over and knocked on my door yesterday. He said, "Hey I remember you told me a year ago you work with computers, can you help me install a mod for my favorite video game?" It was kind of awkward, since this guy is very awkward.. but I didn't mind helping out. He's a mid 40-something guy who lives at home with his aunt and seems incredibly inept socially so I imagine it took a lot of courage for him to walk over and ask for help. For that, I felt obligated to help the guy.

I went over to this house, and he was trying to install a companion mod for fallout new vegas. He didn't know how mods worked, and was downloading mod files and didn't know where to copy things. It required the mod, a script extended, and I ended up having to manually edit 2 config files to update a number of lines in order to get this to work. I was his house for 2 hours, but I did get it working. He asked when I was leaving if he was having issues if he could come over and I told him there, "No, sorry if you continue to have problems you'll need to google and figure it out. I"m not your IT support man.. " I felt bad, but I know the routine.

My wife was pissed I was gone for 2 hours, but it reminded me how surface PC gaming is fine these days. Building PCs/gaming PC's in the early 1990s was challenging, but in 2017 its like lego. BUT ... depending on what you're doing you can still get stuck in the rabbit hole.

I'm surprised he didn't do that first.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Guys, why does PC gaming/gamers get a bad rep again

because they're literally the only people on GAF who trade sarcastic barbs with other members

Cool.

Don't mind the assholes.

Judging by this thread, one of the main pluses of being a PC gamer is a feeling of superiority over their console playing brethren. You don't want to be part of that clique.

I think you're projecting. When it comes to PC gaming, there's a real low bar in place for what constitutes 'elitism' to a lot of people.

This is actually one of the reasons I mainly play on console even though I own a good gaming pc. The fucking superiority master race is always on the defensive and so quick to look down on people that main on console.

I don't think there's as much of this going on in this thread as you say there is.

 

[univbee]

I'm surprised he didn't do that first.

You never worked tech support, clearly.

 

[MaDKaT]

I'm surprised he didn't do that first.

Even if he did, he may not be able to discern what is good information or even understand the instructions. Google can be an excellent tool but can also be an alien language.

 

[Gravy Boat]

no it's just the kind of stuff console-only players ignore until it hits their favorite console and suddenly becomes awesome

Not really. If consoles players really wanted that stuff they’d buy a PC. Most console gamers just want to sit down and play the latest game and don’t care at all about the other stuff PC offers. If they did care they wouldn’t be playing on console.

 

[2blackcats]

I had an interesting experience recently when a neighbor who does software development told me he doesn't game on PC because he would be "too distracted by other things he could do on the PC". My immediate thought was "other things" = porn lol?? I don't know him well, but I felt like telling him it's ok, you learn to balance game time and porn. It's all good.

I kind of get that mentality. I used to read books on a 10" tablet but I was forever swapping over to the browser and checking shit (probably GAF, lol) and getting fuck all reading done. Now that I have a Kindle that problem (if you even want to call it that) is gone.

 

[2blackcats]

I think you're projecting. When it comes to PC gaming, there's a real low bar in place for what constitutes 'elitism' to a lot of people.

Probably. But reading the thread it seems that the console dudes see merits to both sides of the argument and some PC dudes can't seem to get why people might prefer to be a primarily console gamer.

I prefer to game on console even though I played on PC for decades. My first PC was this monstrosity, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_Mega_PC

(maybe I was always conflicted, lol)

Edit :shit, sorry for dp.

 

[Akronis]

Probably. But reading the thread it seems that the console dudes see merits to both sides of the argument and some PC dudes can't seem to get why people might prefer to be a primarily console gamer.

I prefer to game on console even though I played on PC for decades. My first PC was this monstrosity, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_Mega_PC

(maybe I was always conflicted, lol)

Probably because people keep coming up with arguments like "this game from 1996 doesn't work first try" lol

 

[MazeHaze]

Not really. If consoles players really wanted that stuff they’d buy a PC. Most console gamers just want to sit down and play the latest game and don’t care at all about the other stuff PC offers. If they did care they wouldn’t be playing on console.

Not true at all. I was a console gamer for years who was jealous of what PC offers, until I could finally afford a PC.

 

[Diabolical]

I would love to get real stats on these messageboards of the real level of pc hardware people are gaming with, and at what resolution and frame rate. Likely there's a lot of wannabe superiority that's going on in the fanboy ranks.

I can definitely understand your sentiments. I've got the impression that many of the types you're referring to aren't even gaming on high-end rigs at all.

 

[2blackcats]

Not true at all. I was a console gamer for years who was jealous of what PC offers, until I could finally afford a PC.

Everyone is different. I did the opposite and money has nothing to do with it.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Not true at all. I was a console gamer for years who was jealous of what PC offers, until I could finally afford a PC.

I said most, not all.

 

[Gurnlei]

Because anything past putting the game in, letting it download updates and play is too much for a lot of people. It is what it is.

 

[MUnited83]

I'm neither old nor confused, just impatient. How about that


No, but with a console, they will work automatically. I have very few PC games that worked instantly, no tinkering or troubleshooting required, with almost any controller I've used (DS3 and DS4 lately, I used a 360 controller before but I hate it and avoid it). And for my PC to connect to my TV I'd need to do a lot of furniture re-arrangement that I sure as shit don't want to do.

They are not comparable. People need to get this through their thick skulls; when someone says "I want my controller and couch" they are not saying "it's impossible to have those things with PC gaming", only that they are not practical or trivial to setup for them.

See my earlier post for some examples. And those are recent games purporting "full controller support" too! [Fake edit: ok, Trails 3rd is "partial", but fuck, it's originally a console/handheld game, ridiculous that it's not full support]


lol, I remember that that thing. It was a piece of dogshit that didn't work with most games in the late 90's, and even had trouble working right with console emulators. It was better than nothing, but that's it.

Edit:


Guys, why does PC gaming/gamers get a bad rep again

Steam Controller software actually means that every game is controller compatible.
And it's very practical and trivial to have a PC set up to your TV. Small form computers exist for a reason. You can buy PCs right now that are as big as a PS4 or a Xbox One. There is zero difference between setting that up or a console. There isn't a actual argument against this, other than "well I just don't want to buy a small form factor PC". But framing it as if it isn't "trivial or practical"? Is as trivial or practical as me buying a console of the same size and putting it in the same place.

 

[c0Zm1c]

You never worked tech support, clearly.

Even if he did, he may not be able to discern what is good information or even understand the instructions. Google can be an excellent tool but can also be an alien language.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you have the initiative to sort things out by yourself. I've never asked anyone for help with my PC, not even back in 1995 when it was all new and alien to me.

 

[2blackcats]

Because anything past putting the game in, letting it download updates and play is too much for a lot of people. It is what it is.

Don't like the over simplification.

There are as many reasons to game the way people do as there are gamers.

 

[Gurnlei]

Don't like the over simplification.

There are as many reasons to game the way people do as there are gamers.

I believe what you quoted is the main (most common) reason why people game on consoles over PC. There's other reasons, yes.

Edit: Reading over this it came off as a bit snarky. I should have clarified the over-simplification only offering my opinion on what the main reasoning I see for people playing on consoles and not just a single reasoning to explain all.

 

[ZoronMaro]

Here's an anecdote,

I recently tried to play a weird Japanese doujin game. First I had to figure out how to change my system language to Japanese so that I could install it, then after that it still didn't work because apparently I didn't have the right kind of XivD (even though I know I had already recently installed the latest version, but I guess this required an old/very specific version). Then on top of all that I still had to figure out how to get my controller to work.

I used to play these doujin games a lot more on my old laptop, which had the ultimate version of Win7 so switching system languages was much easier. Also back then I had no dedicated graphics card so I had about as much trouble with games on steam (the doujin games gave me less trouble which is why I played more of them back then). Honestly made me reflect that PC gaming is still complicated, it's just that Steam streamlines a lot of the background annoyances, although even recently I'll still have problems where Steam can't launch the game because for whatever reason it can't install or download whatever driver. And of course controller support is always going to be a problem because there's too many types of controllers out there, but the fact my fightsticks don't work on my PC fighting games is a huge pain.

I know on consoles there's way less indie stuff, but earlier this year I bought a doujin fighting game off Japanese PSN, and buying it was the hardest part, everything after was literally plug and play (not even a day 1 patch) with whatever fightstick I wanted. If the game I want to import is on disk then it's even easier.

I could see the argument that the tinkering I mentioned didn't sound so bad and I'm exaggerating, or that it's worth it for the greater selection of games, but if that's how you think then you'll never be able to answer the question, "Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?" Because the actual answer is the amount of tinkering the average person is willing to put up with is waaay less than you think.

 

[Eclectic Sk3ptic]

I see a lot of people making fun of the "comfy couch" argument.

I haven't seriously played PC games in some years except for some exceptions, but now that I am building a strong-ass PC for work, I kind of want to play again but do not like desktop gaming.

I used to have everything in my bedroom so I could play my PC games on my big TV with a simple HDMI cable, but now that I work at home, I have an office room and my computer is at the other end of where my TV is.

I tried the Steam Link, which is fine but doesn't work always properly. I would not play daily or even weekly with it. I guess I could use a huge HDMI cable but it would be a nightmare to hide through 3 different rooms.

So... That is actually the only thing preventing me from playing on PC and I'm sticking on my PS3 and 4 for now.

How do you guys deal with that ?

That's perfectly understandable. What worked for me was to put together an extra PC meant exclusively for gaming, and treat it as a console. By that I mean building a small(er) form factor PC that connects to an Xbox controller, a Steam controller, a wireless keyboard and only one AV/display device. And of course placing it in my AV room where the consoles are set up.

I realize not everyone would want to do something like that, but that's how I was able to make PC gaming as convenient as possible for myself. The vast majority of games works out of the box, and there's very little maintenance required. I'll update graphics drivers once a month or so, and that's about it. It not only meets, but far exceeds all of my requirements and is so convenient I'm considering ditching consoles altogether come next gen.

That being said, if I were in a position where I simply couldn't afford to have a set-up such as I do now, or something fairly similar, for whatever reason, I'd probably just stick to consoles. Desktop gaming (especially in a work environment) is not something I appreciate either.

 

[dsk1210]

For modern games, I've had a pretty pleasant experience. The only thing that is a pain in the ass is HDR on PC. In any case, given that I'm spending usually 30-50% less on PC games than the console equivalent, I'm willing to tinker a little bit. Only thing that would be great is a GUI with contoller support that can launch all my games. Steam Big Picture mode gets me most of the way there, but the occasional Origin or UPlay title doesn't always work well with it. UWP apps don't work well with it at all.

UWP hook Will allow your UWP games to Laos through big picture and could not be easier to set up.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I know on consoles there's way less indie stuff, but earlier this year I bought a doujin fighting game off Japanese PSN, and buying it was the hardest part, everything after was literally plug and play (not even a day 1 patch) with whatever fightstick I wanted. If the game I want to import is on disk then it's even easier.

If you buy Doujin Games on Steam its the same as if you buy it on PSN. Download, install, play.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Oddly enough, a neighbor of mine who I've never really talked to walked over and knocked on my door yesterday. He said, "Hey I remember you told me a year ago you work with computers, can you help me install a mod for my favorite video game?" It was kind of awkward, since this guy is very awkward.. but I didn't mind helping out. He's a mid 40-something guy who lives at home with his aunt and seems incredibly inept socially so I imagine it took a lot of courage for him to walk over and ask for help. For that, I felt obligated to help the guy.

I went over to this house, and he was trying to install a companion mod for fallout new vegas. He didn't know how mods worked, and was downloading mod files and didn't know where to copy things. It required the mod, a script extender, and I ended up having to manually edit 2 config files to update a number of lines in order to get this to work. I was his house for 2 hours, but I did get it working. He asked when I was leaving if he was having issues if he could come over and I told him there, "No, sorry if you continue to have problems you'll need to google and figure it out. I"m not your IT support man.. " I felt bad, but I know the routine.

You did the right thing. Otherwise you would've been his personal IT guy for every issue.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

This post assumes to much. It’s very easy for me to understand how PC is seen as complex, just look at what the consoles offer and why it’s popular. Not everyone falls in your demographic either. All in all, I think this post is pointless close mindedness and just fodder to make a Neogaf thread.

 

[ZoronMaro]

If you buy Doujin Games on Steam its the same as if you buy it on PSN. Download, install, play.

See my point about controllers.

I can't be the only who doesn't have an Xinput controller (although if I were a betting man I doubt buying one would instantly solve all my issues). Just because a game says it has controller support on steam does not mean it's plug and play.

E: Also can I buy stuff on Japanese steam? I didn't know that was possible, but now I'm interested if there's a wealth of japanese indie stuff I could buy that I can't get off regular steam, because a lot of what I'm interested in is not getting brought over to any english speaking marketplace.

 

[ViolentP]

PC gaming caters to those who like options and consoles cater to those who prefer simplicity. You have PC gamers who claim superiority for their complexity, and console gamers who claim superiority for their simplicity.

Both camps have dicks. Picking who is worse is a fool's errand.

 

[Taliban Stan]

Because a lot of tinkering can still be involved.

I consider myself lucky, but I play exclusively within the confines of Steam and their systems. I had a texture bug with Civ 5 that made the game look weird sometimes but didn't really impact anything other than that. I remember going to the support site and seeing people posting that the installer couldn't even run on their machines and the fix was like reinstall all drivers and or windows.

If you catch a lucky break PC gaming is smooth and tinker free but you won't catch lucky breaks forever and some people seem to exclusively catch bad breaks.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

See my point about controllers.

I can't be the only who doesn't have an Xinput controller (although if I were a betting man I doubt buying one would instantly solve all my issues). Just because a game says it has controller support on steam does not mean it's plug and play.

In 99% of cases, with me having an XInput controller (360, Xbox One 1 and Xbox One BT controller) I never had any problem with a controller supported game on Steam.

 

[2blackcats]

Kind of related to tinkering,

Another thing that's nice about consoles is when you're chatting to friends about a game, Witcher 3 for example. You're just talking about the game and you both had the exact same experience.

If I was talking about the PC version with someone the conversation would 75 % about settings. Loads of people love that stuff and more power to them (ha) but I'm over it.

 

[thesonovabeach]

That's perfectly understandable. What worked for me was to put together an extra PC meant exclusively for gaming, and treat it as a console. By that I mean building a small(er) form factor PC that connects to an Xbox controller, a Steam controller, a wireless keyboard and only one AV/display device. And of course placing it in my AV room where the consoles are set up.

I realize not everyone would want to do something like that, but that's how I was able to make PC gaming as convenient as possible for myself. The vast majority of games works out of the box, and there's very little maintenance required. I'll update graphics drivers once a month or so, and that's about it. It not only meets, but far exceeds all of my requirements and is so convenient I'm considering ditching consoles altogether come next gen.

That being said, if I were in a position where I simply couldn't afford to have a set-up such as I do now, or something fairly similar, for whatever reason, I'd probably just stick to consoles. Desktop gaming (especially in a work environment) is not something I appreciate either.

Yeah that's what I thought. After posting this I launched my steam link just to try it again. It worked ok but I came across another problem : I started Event[0], no controller support. I started Half Life 2 (a game that exists on consoles...), it works but I can't access the menus. Sooo I guess I would have to buy a Steam Controller. And a new computer. Or stick to console games

 

[RedSwirl]

Does everyone who plays multiplats on PC even try to run them at higher-than-console performance? How many PC users are content to play all those games at medium settings, 720p, and 30fps? Is there some kind of hard data on this?

On my previous GPU I was content to play big multiplats at medium/high settings in 1080p at 30fps -- I played 400 hours of Witcher 3 at 1080p/30, probably maybe slightly above console settings, and I was fine with it. I did this for most new games and was just fine with it because I buy on PC primarily just to have more freedom with how and where I install and run my games. Superior performance is only one small facet of the advantage for me.

I'll admit that a big exception -- and the game that made me get a 1070, was DOOM. As far as I can tell, new DOOM is a rare recent example of a game that runs noticeably better on consoles than it does on mid-range PC GPUs (at least 2013 GPUs). Maybe it's just because the console versions run at dynamic resolution which the PC version doesn't have.

I also must admit that multiplat games on PC these days are probably less scalable than in the past. Games on the lowest graphics settings today look basically the same as on the highest settings, whereas 10 years ago you could knock a game a whole "console generation" in the past if you turned the settings down low enough, which allowed it to run on much more affordable systems.

 

[family_guy]

UWP hook Will allow your UWP games to Laos through big picture and could not be easier to set up.

I'll give this a shot. Thanks.

 

[Mozendo]

I really doubt it unless there are frametime charts for those segments. Haswell i5 (non-K) can hit 60+ lots of times, 100+ even, but equally plenty are dips to way below 60 and stutters.

There's no benefit for me (and others) to lie about the performance of PCs. If you can't get at least 60 frames with a 4690 and a 1080ti then there's something wrong with your PC, might be thermal throttling, might be software, might even be something else. The fact you said that Haswell i5's aren't decent and dismissing about what others have told you really makes me question your knowledge about PC gaming .

 

[FX-GMC]

My friend picked up Black Ops 3 on PC the other day cause he was in the mood for some Duty. It hasn't worked once. Crashes right after the Activision logo. We went through all the google results and tried everything except a complete reinstall of Windows.

Maybe stuff like that?

(To be fair, I bought black ops 3 at launch on Steam and never had any issues with it)

 

[ViolentP]

My friend picked up Black Ops 3 on PC the other day cause he was in the mood for some Duty. It hasn't worked once. Crashes right after the Activision logo. We went through all the google results and tried everything except a complete reinstall of Windows.

Maybe stuff like that?

(To be fair, I bought black ops 3 at launch on Steam and never had any issues with it)

It's the nature of the platform. A solution is out there, sometimes it takes some work to find. The results are more often than not worth it. With an almost infinite combination of components, it's not surprising the occasional issue.

 

[2blackcats]

There's no benefit for me (and others) to lie about the performance of PCs. If you can't get at least 60 frames with a 4690 and a 1080ti then there's something wrong with your PC, might be thermal throttling, might be software, might even be something else. The fact you said that Haswell i5's aren't decent and dismissing about what others have told you really makes me question your knowledge about PC gaming .

Time for some tinkering.

Why question their knowledge about PC gaming though? The whole point of the thread is a debate about whether much knowledge is required.

 

[Sändersson]

There's no benefit for me (and others) to lie about the performance of PCs. If you can't get at least 60 frames with a 4690 and a 1080ti then there's something wrong with your PC, might be thermal throttling, might be software, might even be something else. The fact you said that Haswell i5's aren't decent and dismissing about what others have told you really makes me question your knowledge about PC gaming .

Its just bonkers and he is highly likely to be trolling. Probably should just let him be.

 

[Ballistic Peanut]

While PC gaming is WAY easier to get into nowadays, I still have to deal with very occasional bugs, crashes and W10 bullshit. So I don't blame people for avoiding PC gaming and sticking to consoles. Although consoles also aren't completely free of crashes and bugs. And at least on the PC you can troubleshoot and try to find a solution rather than wait for patches. But, then that leads to the tinkering that people don't like.

 

[Sändersson]

Time for some tinkering.

Why question their knowledge about PC gaming though? The whole point of the thread is a debate about whether much knowledge is required.

https://youtu.be/kURfD5PRVvM

Because what he says is extremely suspect.

 

[Freshmaker]

Reading through this thread it seems like 90% of tinkering happens when trying to do things that are impossible to do on other platforms.

I dunno about that. Stuff like trying to get SFV to run isn't impossible on other platforms.

Just had to disable Windows 10's security features, muck around with Syswow64 and move the game from the D drive to the C drive because only the C drive worked with SFV for whatever reason.

 

[Sändersson]

My friend picked up Black Ops 3 on PC the other day cause he was in the mood for some Duty. It hasn't worked once. Crashes right after the Activision logo. We went through all the google results and tried everything except a complete reinstall of Windows.

Maybe stuff like that?

(To be fair, I bought black ops 3 at launch on Steam and never had any issues with it)

I think I might have had similiar problems with advanced warfare 1 demo or "free weekend" trial. For some reason it ate all my vram and the game crashed.

 

[ZoronMaro]

It's the nature of the platform. A solution is out there, sometimes it takes some work to find. The results are more often than not worth it. With an almost infinite combination of components, it's not surprising the occasional issue.

The bolded is an opinion, that you're allowed to have, but I promise you everyone who prefers consoles will disagree with you.

The whole reason the thread is 40 pages is because PC people either say, "it's not that hard" or, "it's worth it". And basically all responses are a combination of, "yes it is" and, "no it isn't". I got a super nice gaming PC, used it consistently for year, and while most of the time it wasn't that bad, once I started playing consoles again I never looked back except for the rare little indie I want to check out. It's fine if you prefer what you're doing, but I find it disingenuous for any reasonably intelligent person (which ostensibly PC gamers are) to act like the reasons people don't like PC are completely incomprehensible.

E: I didn't mean to call you out specifically ViolentP, it's just my take on the thread in general, I'm out of here.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Yeah, but who does that? I don't know anyone who does that, but I still have all my old consoles. Then again maybe I'm the weird one and keeping old consoles is as rare as keeping old PCs, IDK

I don't bother keeping my old PCs because I don't need to, since I can run old PC games on newer ones. Keeping an old console because you need it to play old games is literally giving up money that you could gain from selling it.

And what about somebody who never owned these old consoles in the first place?

 

[Leonidas]

It is a problem with older games & certain low budget indie games with questionable controller support. You've gotta do some stuff in some older games if you want to get Widescreen support or increase the resolution. In one low budget indie game I played recently controller support wasn't implemented correctly forcing me to use kb/m.

Recently I've also had an issue with Windows Store where it just wouldn't run some games, had to reformat(Windows Reset feature) to get them working again...

 

[Yawnny]

Every so often I have to tinker.. but that's what I love about PC Gaming.