Worst plot point was the demon father abuse/rape of Kat because of how badly it was written and how it tried to be manipulative.
Don't remind me.
Worst plot point was the demon father abuse/rape of Kat because of how badly it was written and how it tried to be manipulative.
Plenty of games sell like ass, doesn't make the dev less than capable
Capcom made some profit off of the sales, (people seem to really overestimate how expensive that game was relatively speaking) and NT is still working in the industry. If anything, Capcom is struggling much more than them since they can barely fund projects from some of their biggest series.DmC was one of the worst written games of last gen and the poor sales rightly doomed Ninja Theory to C-tier developer status.
Again, taking scenes out of context and mistaking things for bad writing. That scene makes perfect sense in context with other tools and magic Kat does in the game. Like using a spray can to access Limbo at will or the egg timer to manipulate it's shape.I love Kat's introduction where Dante is fighting an invincible monster and then Kat throws a thing at its head and he's no longer invincible.
You don't need to break the science of it down, but if Lady had thrown a vase at an unbeatable monster and then Dante could fight it, people would have assumed for years something was cut or mistranslated.
Dismissing a point completely without refuting its core idea doesn't make you right.
Shooting an unborn child, demonic or not, while it is still in the womb and then thinking you are a pretty cool guy for doing it sounds really fucking "edgy" to me.
Agreed---which is why it's doubly bad to change a great character to a god awful stereotype of himself and slap a Bieber cut on him.Because people hate change.
Plenty of games sell like ass, doesn't make the dev less than capable
lmao
Baby ripping from mother's stomach to fight as a main boss? yeah sure okay
Shooting that baby in the gut even though that baby could've probably blocked that shit? bad writing
I mean the games were always over the top and Dante was always ridiculous. His redesign in the reboot was different but it's not like the OG Dante design was something understated.
I would totally be down for DmC 2,or a new Devil May Cry with a total, new redesign again.
I think it was if it ain't broke don't fix it thing.
Dante is a pretty iconic character.
Also new Dante had that outdated I'm trying to be too edgy vibe.
/threadBecause people hate change.
Original Dante had that too.
Again, taking scenes out of context and mistaking things for bad writing. That scene makes perfect sense in context with other tools and magic Kat does in the game. Like using a spray can to access Limbo at will or the egg timer to manipulate it's shape.
Many people also dismiss the notion that Capcom made NT change the design even further throughout development when they originally had something that very much resembled a younger Dante, which probably would've gone over better with the fanbase despite looking completely out of place in the game outside of Limbo. They even admitted that they expected the game to get backlash.DmC Dante is my second favorite Dante right behind DMC4. I always liked the design since the reveal and it greatly improved by release. Ninja Theory also nailed the cocky and arrogant attitude I'd expect of the character without making him too annoying and obnoxious like DMC3.
However, I always thought making Ninja Theory do such a stark redesign was a terrible idea on Capcom's part. Changing the developer was already going to a hard sell, and then giving a him a drastic redesign on top of that just wasn't smart. It's like they wanted the backlash. I don't think the game deserved the absurd amount of toxicity it got, but the backlash was very understandable. And then all the PR comments, like the "feel of 60fps" and such, just made it worse.
It was a great game in the end, but it could have been handled so, so much better.
If we're supposed to avoid "grown up" things what do you think about Dante having an entire monologue which was a metaphor about giving women orgasms starting with whipping it out and thrusting his cock in them with great force?I think the issue with the "fuck you. no fuck you." isn't that it isn't self away and silly, that it has to resort to edgy swearing. Like, yeah it's silly to have these two powerful characters resort to childishly swearing at each other but that just it, that is the joke. It's just them swearing at each other and it's not meant to be this deep nuanced thing, it's just two characters telling each other to fuck off repeatedly like children.
And it's meant to be silly and not serious and self aware, but I think it falls into the "edgy" category anyway because it relies on "fuck you". Ooooh we're edgy because when we're being silly and self aware we still swear like grown ups!
I'm pretty sure Ninja Theory had nothing to do with that image. But it certainly was taken out of context in regards to the game for a long time. The first time I saw an actual explanation as to where it came from was in that thread where one of the people who worked on the game answered questions.I wouldn't say it morphed into full on hatred until NT started insulting the fanbase and gaming journalists took their side and fanned the flames. Also homophobic shit like this:
I wouldn't say it morphed into full on hatred until NT started insulting the fanbase and gaming journalists took their side and fanned the flames. Also homophobic shit like this:
didn't help.
Haha Of all the things...
"Ninja Theory" wasn't thinking anything with that. That's a slide from a presentation that Alex 'Talexi' Taini gave at GDC 2013 called "The Art Direction of DMC Devil May Cry" (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017717/The-Art-Direction-of-DmC).
It's actually quite close to the start of the presentation and -- it seems to me that -- it was aimed as a little light humour in response to Capcom's question: "Imagine Dante in a western movie". It's worth a watch. Alex actually goes on to say he thinks Uncle Dante's look is cool, but wasn't what they -- or Capcom -- were after.
This is unfortunately one of those things though (like so many others) that got blown out of proportion. I think someone posted that exact image above and said something like "This is what Ninja Theory thinks of DMC4" and boom... it's suddenly fact.
I wouldn't say it morphed into full on hatred until NT started insulting the fanbase and gaming journalists took their side and fanned the flames. Also homophobic shit like this:
didn't help.
If we're talking about the edginess of Dante, who acted shocked that sniper scene is also taken out of context. The quite clearly sociopathic dude did it. Personally I find that scene no less worse or edgy than Dante literally playing soccer with the fetuses of a demon in DMC4 and then shooting her when she was grieving.
Also doesn't help that that picture gets taken out of context all the time, even when multiple devs have clarified the reason behind that picture.I wouldn't say it morphed into full on hatred until NT started insulting the fanbase and gaming journalists took their side and fanned the flames. Also homophobic shit like this:
didn't help.
So we're in agreement that it's ok for Dante to kill demons including their children, including playing soccer with them, and then very coldly shooting them as they grieve, (despite not being the one who did it in DmC in the first place but fuck context right?). But somehow it's not ok for DmC to be over the top. First it's too serious, now the scene is too over the top? Oh my lord.That scene isn't any worse than the gameplay that precedes it. You're literally killing dozens of those things and destroying those same eggs while traversing the level (which, by the way, are mindless demons used intentionally as fodder).
And regarding the succubus scene, like I said, just because it's not serious and the developers were "in" on it doesn't make it any less "edgy," or more accurately, bad. I get that Dante was taunting and having fun with the situation, but the problem isn't Dante or his dialogue, it's the succubus. It's terrible. And yes, they were probably trying to make it sound as ridiculous and stupid as possible, and it's still awful. It's basically "look at how stupid and RIDICULOUS we're trying to make this scene!" and it just falls flat on its face.
And you know what? Now that I think about it, they made Vergil into a far worse character than Dante. Between the abortion and the "bigger dick" line, I'm far more annoyed with the way they portrayed him.
This is another objectively false accusation that's been explained multiple times before
Also doesn't help that that picture gets taken out of context all the time, even when multiple devs have clarified the reason behind that picture.
Again, taking scenes out of context and mistaking things for bad writing. That scene makes perfect sense in context with other tools and magic Kat does in the game. Like using a spray can to access Limbo at will or the egg timer to manipulate it's shape.
If we're supposed to avoid "grown up" things what do you think about Dante having an entire monologue which was a metaphor about giving women orgasms starting with whipping it out and thrusting his cock in them with great force?
Boy, it sure is easy to win conversations that only occur in one's head.Okay guys, great news, we are making a new Bayonetta game! We are just calling it "B" this time around. Don't worry about Bayonetta being lame like she used to be, she now looks more like a sallow skinned Kim Deal, with a faux-hawk, wearing a black, leather jacket. You heard right, guys; we fixed her! She also swears a lot, because she is an edgy rebel.
Now, I know some losers liked the old Bayonetta, but that is only because they don't understand what a cool character looks like. This is also probably all about how we took away her glasses. Sure, lots of people are specifically critiquing other aspects, but we will only comment on, and acknowledge, that one specific complaint, because that makes the complaints look petty.
Look forward to "B", it's going to finally make Bayonetta cool!
That's exactly what the new one does...New Dante is made by a Western company who wanted to Westernize DmC to make it more approachable, in doing so they threw away the classic Japanese Dante character who would crack one liners, have a crazy action sequence whenever he got a new weapon, had a literal devil may care attitude.
Now we got "fuck you, no fuck you"
I used to think DmC Dante was the series' Shadow the Hedgehog, but that is honestly laying too much blame at his feet. He is in line with the rest of the game.
DmC is the series' Shadow the Hedgehog.
-Capcom wanted NT to westernize itNew Dante is made by a Western company who wanted to Westernize DmC to make it more approachable, in doing so they threw away the classic Japanese Dante character who would crack one liners, have a crazy action sequence whenever he got a new weapon, had a literal devil may care attitude.
Now we got "fuck you, no fuck you"
A monologue about sex is what's considered subtle and clever now... (._.)One is straight up "fuck you!" the other is "watch me (literally) dance around a sex metaphor". One tries to be clever and "subtle" in it's adult humour, the other is just saying the word fuck over and over.
I assume NT put a lot more faith into the fanbase that was insulting them on a daily basis for three years than said fan base put in them.That sounds like an excuse. Part of a writer's job is to make sure there little to no misunderstandings in the product's writing and to make it as clear as possible. If the message fails to resonate, it's not the fault of the people playing the game, that's on the writer's hand. Additionally, you don't get points for "oh, it was meant to sound good in context."
Wtf, none of those characters have any sort of good development. I'd take cheesy God hand over these terrible attempts at character development any day.I'll give you Bayonetta. Gene is an awful one-note character that has no development other than being an avatar to kick ass. Optimus Prime doesn't really count either.
Hotsuma, Hibana, Hayabusa, Travis, Jack Cayman are all better characters .
Fuck, even Yaiba is better than Gene
An apparent ex-NT employee on here (I'll look for the post but I'm on mobile right now) claimed that this image is always taken out of context and was meant to show how Dante could fit in with cowboys.
Which I think was absolute bullshit because they used Brokeback Mountain for the cowboys.
Edit: here's the post.
A monologue about sex is what's considered subtle and clever now... (._.)
A monologue about sex is what's considered subtle and clever now... (._.)
Lol there was no subtle humour in old Dante. The sexual innuendo in that game is about a grade 5 level. It's not some pinnacle of comedy. It's a guy backflip ping around making dick jokes constantly.One is straight up "fuck you!" the other is "watch me (literally) dance around a sex metaphor". One tries to be clever and "subtle" in it's adult humour, the other is just saying the word fuck over and over.
I think you may want to replay the games if you think they are in any way subtle or adult.One is straight up "fuck you!" the other is "watch me (literally) dance around a sex metaphor". One tries to be clever and "subtle" in it's adult humour, the other is just saying the word fuck over and over.