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[Natetan]

In FF X there are models used for cutscenes then there are models used for the map and battles. Sometimes 'cutscenes' that are short use the battle/map model. Notice the face.

Ah right, so I guess there are three models then on ffvii. Over world, battle, and fmv. I don't think they fully understood how it should all look when they made it.

Plus I think the battle and fmv model in ffx weren't so startlingly different. The fmv model evolved too. The aeris death scene looks great, but differs from the fmv models later on.

 

[encephalon]

My guess for the "ugly" polygon models used in the maps would be that it made the transition between 2D chibi sprites of the Snes titles and full blow 3D models a lot more smooth and natural.

You need to have some sense of cohesion. Otherwise it would probably be a tad alienating for some.

If FFVII lacks anything, it's cohesion.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

If FFVII lacks anything, it's cohesion.

not completely

 

[Rising_Hei]

In FF X there are models used for cutscenes then there are models used for the map and battles. Sometimes 'cutscenes' that are short use the battle/map model. Notice the face.

They should've made the hq models standard for Vita/PS3 version

If i recall correctly, where is only one scene in FFX where you control HQ Tidus... the first time you control him after Sinh's attack, when he's near the stadium

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Keep in mind that FFVII is particular had a lot of changes and corrections during it's development. It shifted platforms, changed stories and had to deal a lot of challenges to development team didn't face before and that was creating three dimensional and living worlds.

 

[encephalon]

Honestly, the in FMV blocky characters are probably

1 A time/money saving endeavor.

2. Effectively the same thing as FMV with the in game character models (rendered by the PS1) overlayed. This was also done in FFVIII.

 

[Thoraxes]

Honestly, the in FMV blocky characters are probably

1 A time/money saving endeavor.

2. Effectively the same thing as FMV with the in game character models (rendered by the PS1) overlayed. This was also done in FFVIII.

Don't forget the most important one: System Resources.

 

[Dalauz]

Most people didn't have TV's 20" or smaller in 1997. Around 30" was the norm. Hell my parents bought a 53" big screen in 95.

err no, most people had a 20" in living room and kids got 14 in their rooms

 

[Eusis]

that was just the world map Cloud right? In combat looked better I think.

still MGS1 look damn good back in those days

It took a thread about Final-fucking-Fantasy VII's crappy exploration models to make me FINALLY appreciate Metal Gear Solid's graphics. Though maybe without that texture warping it wouldn't have taken this long.

... Despite that statement, yeah, if it was just 6 months it's absolutely inexperience. And I personally think there really is a charm to the visuals, as much as people point to FFVII:AC for how a remake should look the FFIII DS visuals looks more like a proper evolution of FFVII's style, and would probably work best at retaining the game's overall tone.

EDIT: Another point in favor of FFVII's visuals: FFVIII and IX showed that when you DO try to increase the detail with those kinds of backgrounds it can be really hard to appreciate at 240p, yet it's also too far behind the likes of DC or PS2 graphics to work well at 480p. FFVII definitely had the advantage of being distinct and not looking like pixalated messed 90% of the time.

 

[orioto]

I disagree strongly.
Squaresoft was already well known for having top-notch graphic and sound design all through the 16-bit era. All the FF games, Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3, the Romancing Saga games, Chrono Trigger, Bahamut Lagoon, Front Mission, just to name a few.

FFVI was the first SNES game to use all of the systems 256 color capabilities, which was a graphic marvel at the time.
I can still remember looking in GameFan in early '94 and being absolutely floored when I saw stills of FFVI.

Compare Sega's Phantasy Star IV to Square's Final Fantasy VI. They came out within 4 months of each other (in Japan, at least)

to

On a similar system to FFVI, here is Quintet/Enix's Illusion of Gaia (released within 5 months of FFVI):

I didn't even post an image of a battle screen, which is where FFVI could really shine graphically.

The amount of colors, texture work, character models (and animation, albeit simple), and effects outclassed any other console RPG at the time- and stood pretty damn well against non-RPGs, too.

QFT

Also to this date FFVI is still some kind of pixel art and tiled graphics reference and perfection.
Ans i would add, i believe that's one of the first game where Square used movie guys to do the production.

And all that into 24 meg is still quiet mind blowing to me.

This game is a graphical beast.

 

[Alphahawk]

It was 1997. It looked good to us then. Have you gone back and looked at Tomb Raider shots from around that time? People though Laura was sexy....

 

[Eusis]

It was 1997. It looked good to us then. Have you gone back and looked at Tomb Raider shots from around that time? People though Laura was sexy....

That actually isn't the convenient catch all excuse you'd think it is. Even then there were jokes about Popeye arms.

 

[StuBurns]

It was 1997. It looked good to us then. Have you gone back and looked at Tomb Raider shots from around that time? People though Laura was sexy....

Hnnnnnngg

 

[Acquiescence]

Lego-Cloud and friends always looked rubbish, even back when the game came out. At the time though, everything else looked sublime. I think the pre-rendered backgrounds still hold up really well today.

 

[jaxword]

QFT

Also to this date FFVI is still some kind of pixel art and tiled graphics reference and perfection.
Ans i would add, i believe that's one of the first game where Square used movie guys to do the production.

And all that into 24 meg is still quiet mind blowing to me.

This game is a graphical beast.

Chrono Trigger takes the pixel crown, simply because the characters are FAR more expressive than the FF ones.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

A bit off-topic, but I've never seen this image before:

Apparently, they also played around with making Final Fantasy VII isometric without rendered backgrounds. Quite charming.

Holy shit. What... how... OMG... How come this is the first time I see this... Is there a thread or something, I so want to read more about this even if it's just other people reacting to it... Also where does this fit with Sakaguchi's original idea for FFVII taking place in 1999 New York City?

 

[jaxword]

Holy shit. What... how... OMG... How come this is the first time I see this... Is there a thread or something, I so want to read more about this even if it's just other people reacting to it... Also where does this fit with Sakaguchi's original idea for FFVII taking place in 1999 New York City?

It's mentioned in the Ultimanias that they considered making FF7 another 2d game.

Kitase, LEVEL magazine:

"We actually began work from the ground up on three separate occasions. First directly after FFVI, then again after Chrono Trigger, and finally when we decided that CD-ROM technology was going to be a necessity and that it would therefore be released on the PlayStation."

In other words, they indeed considered making FF7 with the 2-d graphics. However, they clearly did not get far into the process--that image is a mockup, especially with Locke. Using the previous game's characters as placeholder models is common: Locke, Terra and Shadow were in that 3d demo, Yuna and Rikku were in FF13's beta, etc.

The ultimania text basically says "It's a mockup."

Chrono Trigger ended up using the ideas they were using there.

It really didn't go further than just early discussions and testing.


I was keeping this info for a project I'm working on, but since the cat's out of the bag now...

 

[Bomber Bob]

Hnnnnnngg

hot hot hot

 

[LogicStep]

Yeah waste of resources I guess. Needed them for those sweet sweet backgrounds ~ ~

Fuuuuuuuuuuu I love this game, so much nostalgia. :3

 

[v1oz]

3D was still new thing then and it wasnt much into the PS1's lifetime. Also didn't this game start its life on N64?

If it was on N64 it would be more detailed than than that. Bear in mind that FF used pre rendered backdrops so it wasn't too taxing.

It actually looks more like a N64 model than a PSX one. lol

The N64 can display more polygons than the PSX. As seen in the Rogue Squardon and Star Wars racer games.

 

[Haunted]

If it was on N64 it would be more detailed than than that. Bear in mind that FF used pre rendered backdrops so it wasn't too taxing.

The N64 can display more polygons than the PSX. As seen in the Rogue Squardon and Star Wars racer games.

Time to back up your words with some screenshots of detailed character models with high poly counts.

Best in class on N64 in that regard would probably be Perfect Dark.

 

[Celine]

I was keeping this info for a project I'm working on, but since the cat's out of the bag now...

What project if I may ask?

 

[Rlan]

In FF X there are models used for cutscenes then there are models used for the map and battles. Sometimes 'cutscenes' that are short use the battle/map model. Notice the face.

It's the same with Kingdom Hearts, There's awesome spoken cutscene sora, CG sora, and then flapping mouth dialog sora.

 

[orioto]

Chrono Trigger takes the pixel crown, simply because the characters are FAR more expressive than the FF ones.

Nope, cause FFVI is just so dense. Each pixel counts. That's pixel art in its purest form.
But that's an endless debate i guess

 

[Celine]

Time to back up your words with some screenshots of detailed character models with high poly counts.

Best in class on N64 in that regard would probably be Perfect Dark.

I'm not trying to back up what he said though.

If Squaresoft would ever develop an (action) RPG for N64 it would have probably be wholly polygonal.

 

[FlynnCL]

Also does anyone remember the beefed up Cloud/Spehiroth models in the post-end battle? Those were mindblowing.

Yeah, I love how Cloud has a completely new model just for that fight. I don't even think many people even noticed.

The graphics were really good.

 

[PokéKong]

This thread only makes me hope and pray they are now using the Bravely Default engine to remake the PSX games on 3DS. Who's idea even was it for VII to ever have a "realistic" makeover?

 

[StuBurns]

I'm not trying to back up what he said though.

If Squaresoft would ever develop an (action) RPG for N64 it would have probably be wholly polygonal.

Square made three action RPGs for PS1 that were wholly polygonal too, Brave Fencer Musashi, Threads of Fate and Vagrant Story.

EDIT: It's cool to see the graphical progression actually, it's very impressive.

 

[Shion]

A bit off-topic, but I've never seen this image before:

Apparently, they also played around with making Final Fantasy VII isometric without rendered backgrounds. Quite charming.

Wow, just did a quick Google search and found this early concept of Midgar:

I'd LOVE to see them revisit the scrapped FFVII concept in a future FF game.

 

[Pooya]

because Sakaguchi loves LEGO.

 

[jaxword]

Nope, cause FFVI is just so dense. Each pixel counts. That's pixel art in its purest form.
But that's an endless debate i guess

No. FF6 characters have lots of poses that actually make little sense; if not for all the text, they'd be completely random.

i.e. the random finger shaking at the screen. It looks silly in game and still does:

What does this even MEAN?

If it requires the descriptive text, then logically it's not doing its job in its "purest form."

And before you answer, remember that you should fairly discount your own memories of what it means, otherwise there's no intellectually honest debate since it comes down to nostalgia once again.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

It's mentioned in the Ultimanias that they considered making FF7 another 2d game.

Kitase, LEVEL magazine:

"We actually began work from the ground up on three separate occasions. First directly after FFVI, then again after Chrono Trigger, and finally when we decided that CD-ROM technology was going to be a necessity and that it would therefore be released on the PlayStation."

In other words, they indeed considered making FF7 with the 2-d graphics. However, they clearly did not get far into the process--that image is a mockup, especially with Locke. Using the previous game's characters as placeholder models is common: Locke, Terra and Shadow were in that 3d demo, Yuna and Rikku were in FF13's beta, etc.

The ultimania text basically says "It's a mockup."

Chrono Trigger ended up using the ideas they were using there.

It really didn't go further than just early discussions and testing.


I was keeping this info for a project I'm working on, but since the cat's out of the bag now...

I actually knew about that LEVEL interview (I read it here on GAF), but I didn't know a picture of that early concept existed. I suppose the 1999 NYC stuff was conceived later than this picture since they say they rebooted the project twice.

Damn, an FF game with Seiken Densetsu 3/Treasure Hunter G style graphics would have been amazing. Imagine a world where Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger didn't exist and their original incarnation Maru Island was released on Super CD-ROM instead, and then FFVII as this 2D game maybe with Xenogears ideas thrown in for good measures...

Wow, just did a quick Google search and found this early concept of Midgar:

I'd LOVE to see them revisit the scrapped FFVII concept in a future FF game.

This picture gives me FFIX vibes.

 

[Druz]

Yeah, I love how Cloud has a completely new model just for that fight. I don't even think many people even noticed.

The graphics were really good.

I'm stuck ona phone. Can anyone post examples?

 

[Celine]

Also a $45 million budget? Seriously? Not more like $4.5 million? I can't imagine FF7 to have been this expensive to make.

Tengai Makyo 2 (sequel of the first JRPG for CD system ever) is rumored to have had a budget of 5 million.
The game came out in 1992 for the Super CD format and ads boasted the following stats

Total Characters : 3000
Enemy Characters : 400
Map : approx 20000 screens
Villages/Dungeons : about 250
Magic : about 100 different types
Items : approx 500
Narration : about 3 hours, 10000 messages
Animation : about 30 minutes
BGM : 80 entries
Expected time to finish the game : 70 to 80 hours
Staff : 150 people

The game had a fantastic OST by Joe Hisaishi himself.

 

[Chao]

I remember how terrible those models were back in 1997, seeing them in 2013 is even more hilarious.
I remember a friend of mine telling me "it's like a movie man!, this game has the best graphics" and I couldn't help but laugh at him.
Going from the CG movies (cool at the time) to that shit in a matter of seconds was really off putting.

 

[Soler]

Dem horse hooves

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

At the time, it was the best we could get. And as previously mentioned, keep in mind in-battle models look a lot better. And honestly, in a way it's a lot more neat and clean than models that tried to have detailed textures that the PS1 couldn't really do justice. In that regard, I think it looks better than FFVIII's models in some ways. Yeah, VII's models are plain as all hell, but they're also very neat and clean. VIII's look kinda messy by comparison. Regardless, I think they're adorable now cause they're so blocky.

A bit off-topic, but I've never seen this image before:

Apparently, they also played around with making Final Fantasy VII isometric without rendered backgrounds. Quite charming.

This is awesome. If SE is still too incompetent to make a proper 3D, bleeding-edge remake, I'd love a sweet 2D sprite-based FFVII.

 

[orioto]

No. FF6 characters have lots of poses that actually make little sense; if not for all the text, they'd be completely random.

i.e. the random finger shaking at the screen. It looks silly in game and still does:

What does this even MEAN?

If it requires the descriptive text, then logically it's not doing its job in its "purest form."

And before you answer, remember that you should fairly discount your own memories of what it means, otherwise there's no intellectually honest debate since it comes down to nostalgia once again.

Lol cause you're not nostalgic about Chrono Trigger ?
Let's say not everyone sees pixel art as a character expression contest... There is a little more about it.

 

[MickeyKnox]

There were actually 3 character models for Cloud, the eraser hand one, the standard combat one and an enhanced version of the combat model that only gets used at the very end during the 1 on 1. Always found that weird

 

[jaxword]

Lol cause you're not nostalgic about Chrono Trigger ?
Let's say not everyone sees pixel art as a character expression contest... There is a little more about it.

No, I'm not nostalgic about Chrono Trigger. I said exactly what I meant: It's more expressive.

So...what exactly does a pixel character waving their finger at the camera express?

 

[Foolworm]

Haha, Loveless. They ruined it with Gackt and all that endless talk about apples.

 

[Chev]

I think people forget that the norm was that there was a map view model and a battle view model and that square had been making
Games that way for a decade. I think ffx was the first game where there wasn't a difference, and since the whole game is over the shoulder, the character model doesn't have to scale as drastically as in ffvii

FF9 was, actually. While the battle and field models were still stored separately (so they *could* have them be different in some cases) for all the playable characters but Amarant (battle model had no hands to allow for switchable gauntlets) the models were the same.

And that's if you only count FF games. Otherwise it's Chrono Cross (dismissing Parasite Eve where the battle scene isn't separate).

FF12 is one of the most interesting games models-wise, each character has only one model but with a set of more detailed hands and faces that can be switched for cutscenes.

 

[KittenMaster]

No. FF6 characters have lots of poses that actually make little sense; if not for all the text, they'd be completely random.

i.e. the random finger shaking at the screen. It looks silly in game and still does:

What does this even MEAN?

If it requires the descriptive text, then logically it's not doing its job in its "purest form."

And before you answer, remember that you should fairly discount your own memories of what it means, otherwise there's no intellectually honest debate since it comes down to nostalgia once again.

It's your basic "shame on you" finger wagging and hands on hip posture? Like that one recent meme you see with the guy going "No no no, not today".

 

[sn00zer]

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

^^
Is that the 32X version?

 

[hertog]

I still ike FF7's graphics, they're charming to me.

 

[jaxword]

It's your basic "shame on you" finger wagging and hands on hip posture? Like that one recent meme you see with the guy going "No no no, not today".

That would make sense if that were the context...it gets used randomly all across FF6 almost as a blank "silly emotion" template.

 

[Acquiescence]

That is so awesome.

 

[BomberMouse]

Beautiful. Would buy.

 

[jaxword]

Beautiful. Would buy.

You'd buy...the statues?

That's the 3d models done in little statues, not a game.

You could make your own papercraft versions if you wanted: